Great post. I agree. ABM
But like you said, SAF may not retire for another 5 years where a better candidate may have cropped up.
Next Man Utd Manager Expected To Be Jose Mourinho Or David Moyes
- Thread starter Niall
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
Great post. I agree. ABM
But like you said, SAF may not retire for another 5 years where a better candidate may have cropped up.
No it isn't down to trophies if it was then Chelsea would be up there too, it is about how you win them too. You cannot be in our position without success, that is obvious but don't kid yourself that trophies are all that matters.
Utd are where they are because of Matt Busby, Bobby Charlton, George Best, Denis Law, Bryan Robson etc. These are iconic players known throughout the world that have given us a worldwide reputation for fantastic players who play with style. To say we are where we are because we have won trophies in Fergie's reign, not only demeans the way we have achieved our success but also the men who initially put us on the map.
Fergie did not create Utd's worldwide reputation, but he embraced the principles by which it was achieved and through those principles has taken us onto the next level and kept us there.
Mourinho can not maintain that standard, his football stinks, the way he conducts himself stinks and the way he wins stinks. Even if he wins at Utd which i doubt, he will undoubtedly take the club downward, just by being himself.
I would take Guardiola any day of the week over Jose. He conducts himself in a manner befitting a Utd manager imo, and his team play football in the right way, not by having a £400m squad and then playing with fecking centre halves in midfield.
feck Mourinho!
Surely he should apologise to the person he eye prodded, the same lad he pretends to not know the name of. It will help with his ban, typical Jose, way too proud.
The only thing I don't want to happen is a new manager to come him and bring in all his own coaching staff, that could destroy united.
Did he spend all that much at Porto or Inter? Successful teams built to achieve what the chairman/owner wanted and more.
Sir Alex was famous for instilling the us vs the world mentality into United back in the 90s and it'd be easy to find a long list of Sir Alex's various run-ins with the officials, the FA and the Premier League.
The only major difference here appears to be Mourinho winds up the opponents as well.
He has certainly shown plenty of respect to Sir Alex (& United), despite Sir Alex being the only one to ever knock him off the top at any club.
[He's playing catch up at Madrid...]
Do you think Perez cares one little bit about the reputation of "Spanish (Catalan) football" if Mourinho succeeds in knocking Barca off their perch this season? He was entrusted with arguably the toughest job in football since Sir Alex knocked the Scousers off their perch, and so far, no one knows if he'll succeed in doing so. This season is the defining point.
I hope and pray that Gill & co has more sense than to appoint someone unproven who has a good media image.
Chelsea have won 3 league titles in the last half century.
How exactly does Mourinho's football stink? I posted it a while ago, but will point out again, his teams from Porto to Chelsea to Inter to Real have always been the top 2 highest scoring teams in their leagues. His Real Madrid side certainly has been very entertaining.
Guardiola has never been put under pressure to know how he'd react. He inherited one of the greatest squads ever and has spent over 200m on it. He plays central midfielders in defence...
Chelsea have won 3 league titles in the last half century.
How exactly does Mourinho's football stink? I posted it a while ago, but will point out again, his teams from Porto to Chelsea to Inter to Real have always been the top 2 highest scoring teams in their leagues. His Real Madrid side certainly has been very entertaining.
Guardiola has never been put under pressure to know how he'd react. He inherited one of the greatest squads ever and has spent over 200m on it. He plays central midfielders in defence...
How much goals you score does not indicate how entertaining you are.
For example his chelsea team broke all records in 05/06 but they were boring as SHIT.
I believe Real haven't been boring under Jose, it's criminal with the likes of Ronaldo, Lonso, Di Maria and Mesut Ozil at your disposal. Madrid played some sensational stuff last season. They only really turn back into an anti-football team vs Barcelona.
No, it was 04/05 when his team broke all the records, 95pts, conceeding only 15 goals over 38 games.
I personally think they were quite good to watch that season with Robben & Duff down the flanks.
05/06 they were pretty boring with Robben injured quite often and all.
I can't honestly say Chelsea were fun to watch. Even with those wingers, even at the bridge infront of their fans.
The only real time I can say Jose's team played some exciting stuff is with Madrid bar the clasicos. Some of their play and counter attacks was fantasy stuff.
I didn't watch too much of Porto to speak but when I did their diving irked me beyond belief.
The only real time I can say Jose's team played some exciting stuff is with Madrid bar the clasicos. Some of their play and counter attacks was fantasy stuff.
I didn't watch too much of Porto to speak but when I did their diving irked me beyond belief.
Put it this way, Chelsea in 04/05 were no worse than how we did it last season or even in 08/09 with the clean sheet record and lots of 1-0 wins.
Of course we'd all like to see United playing like 06/07 or 07/08, but that can't happen all the time and Sir Alex is pragmatic enough to know how to best get the results we want.
I honestly think Mourinho just adopts his tactics to best achieve the targets he has been set. Winning the title at Chelsea in his first season, winning the CL for Inter, trying to break the Barca dominance (which hasn't happened yet).
I agree we were boring alot of the time in 08/09 but with regards to last season I feel you're doing us a bit of disservice there.
We played some great stuff.
Last season was a strange one, we were capable of looking absolutely sublime one week and absolutely shocking the next week.
Perhaps boring is the wrong description, but certainly unusual...
Anyway, the point remains that Sir Alex can be pragmatic and "boring" when the need arises.
Calderon sticks the boot in as usual, from goal.com
For us, yes.
For the rest of the world, you're only good enough as the trophies you won. That is the reality, 10 years from now you can see foreign kids with Chelsea jersey, something which didn't even happend pre Roman.
Your hate for JM is blinding your objectivity, comparing him to guardiola? 400M squad? that's total crap.
And to be honest, JM reminded me of SAF in a way, our SAF is no angel himself during his early years.
Good football comes with winning, how can you play good football when you're fighting relegation? Open your eyes, smell the coffee, we can afford good football under SAF because we're still winning (comfortably at times), do you think with the likes of Moyes, Blanc, and co. having the pressure to perform they will say "Oh... the fans and board didn't give a damn about trophies, so long as we play sexy football"
After SAF is a very crucial next 5 years, we can become lost in mediocrity ala Liverpool , or continuity of a great era.
Be careful what you wish for.
Not at Porto no, but £100m at Inter. Yes they had their treble, but nowthey are having to sell their best players to service the debt he put them in.
Nothing wrong with a siege mentality, but when you watch his players and the way they act compared to ours, you can surely tell the difference.
Fergie did adopt a siege mentality but it was done in house and not by questioning the integrity of others. Mourinhop slags everybody off in the media, concoting ridiculous conspiracy theories at the expense of ohters in the game. Doesnt surprise me that you cannot determine the difference between the 2 approaches.
Not at first, he was quite disrespectful in his antics when Porto knocked us out, only to backtrack later when he realised he may want the Utd job one day and Fergie could have a big say in whether that happened.
Tbh i don't know Cal, but i cannot see him being happy at the bad press and controversy surrounding Madrid since Jose took over. In trouble with UEFA, now being investigated by the Spanish FA. Hardly a great promotion for the Spanish game is it?
That's good, considering before him the media was all around their player, whom they fecked with, how much their spending, cracks between players.
It take one hell of a character to make those madrid's galactico stfu and gel together as player.
Put the likes of Moyes in there he'll be thrown out at the door after 5-0 from Barca, but JM quells all the media and their player have gone better from there on, just not as good as Barcelona yet.
He's no SAF, but who is the next SAF? we have to accept that we probably won't get a complete package of SAF in our lifetime again.
I was under the impression that they almost broke even under Mourinho with the sale of Zlatan. Also, one would argue that it's not Mourinho's job to balance the books, if he asked Moratti for transfer funds and was given it, it's not exactly his fault they're not balancing their books, is it?
Again, it looks like you've decided to re-invent Sir Alex's strategy, he has slagged off plenty down the years, the FA, other managers, banned the BBC, etc...
If you are referring to his run down the sideline, come off it, he was a young manager in (at that time) his biggest game ever.
Like I said earlier, if Madrid just played nice and accept their position (right now) as just the 2nd club behind this bestest ever ever Barca, that's not what Perez wants. Perez has no doubt asked Mourinho to do everything possible to topple Barca. Mourinho's antics have taken a lot of heat off his players and onto himself.
This sums it up for me. We'd all like Sir Alex to continue for ever and ever, but we all know that cannot happen. Mourinho comes the closest out of all the managers in the game right now, even with a little extra baggage.
Chelsea have won 3 league titles in the last half century.
How exactly does Mourinho's football stink? I posted it a while ago, but will point out again, his teams from Porto to Chelsea to Inter to Real have always been the top 2 highest scoring teams in their leagues. His Real Madrid side certainly has been very entertaining.
Guardiola has never been put under pressure to know how he'd react. He inherited one of the greatest squads ever and has spent over 200m on it. He plays central midfielders in defence...
You can post it as often as you like, it's still bollocks.
Porto who had won the title for 2 years before Jose took over, and Inter who had won it 3 times before Jose took over. To give him credit for the best teams in the league for being top scorers is ridiculous. At Chelsea he spent £350m and had 2 teams when Utd and Arsenal were in transition.
So it is not really as big an achievement as you try to spin it.
Good football is inevitable when you have great players at your disposal as he has had. But in terms of what the players are capable of and what he has them produce in terms of entertainment is not very impressive.
They are very effective but not entertaining.
What? Guardiola took over a team of Galactico's containing Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Henry, Giuly, Larsson etc and within 12 months had completely reshaped the team and the type of football they played.
I can't understand how credit can be given to Mourinho for spending vast sums, yet Guardiola gets no credit for completely revamping Barca's aging Galactico's, and taking Barcelona to a completely new level.
Your hypocrisy is pathetic Cal.
A little extra baggage!
I am starting to think Mourinho could actually stab an opponent and you would excuse it as showing his will to win! Laughable!
I like how you don't include Xavi, Iniesta and Messi in your list. The fact is that he had them in addition to the 'aging galacticos', which is pure madness and a great luxury for a manager.
Also, didn't Spain win the Euro's before Pep's first season at Barcelona? So the Spanish players who were already at Barca at the time were already world beaters as well (well, euro beaters).
Also, didn't Spain win the Euro's before Pep's first season at Barcelona? So the Spanish players who were already at Barca at the time were already world beaters as well (well, euro beaters).
Porto have been dominant in Portugal for years, but did anyone expect them to get anywhere near the Champs League? Inter have been terrible in Europe for years too. In fact, since Dortmund won it in 97, Mourinho is the only one who managed to break the Prem, La Liga, Serie A dominance of the CL.
I was pointing out that his teams tend to be topscorers (or 2nd at least) in each league, most people will agree that high scorers tend to be more exciting to watch.
Has Guardiola really taken Barca to a completely new level? They were very successful that year they beat the Goons in the CL final too. He spent about 200m, has the likes of Messi, Xavi & Iniesta approach their peaks and the likes of Pedro coming through. I just wanted to point out that Barca have spent a lot of money too, at a time where their squad was already the best in the world.
Also, Mourinho didn't sign Ronaldo & Kaka, so you can't include them in his spendings...
With Brazil looking in disarray and Messi failing time and again for his national side, it's safe to say the best team in Europe is clearly the best team in the world.
They were the best team in the world. And the core elements that made them great were already at Barca when Pep took over.
But it's amazing how you manage to take a pop at Messi no matter what the subject matter.
Can't someone take Moyes name of the thread title.
Wow, this is a new one.
You constantly break down football to be so simple to suit your claims. I have no doubts you don't watch the teams/players you talk about in action because you're posts constantly indicate this. Win Euro = capable of winning the treble in your view etc,
Is it really that easy? Especially when club football, especially the CL is way more competitive and involves more games.
Besides look how many Barca players were in the world cup sqaud compared to that of the Euro's, that's something I'm sure you wouldn't give Pep credit for.
Well it's what should have happened if the linesman had any sense.
If the match carried on as it did, with Porto scoring, a 2-1 result would have only taken the match into Extra Time, no guarantee we'd have knocked them out there.
Why would it have done that? Have you never heard the cliche "goals change games"? The course of history was completely altered by a retarded linesman who gifted Porto that match. There's not a doubt in my mind that had that perfectly legitimate goal been allowed Porto wouldn't have been able to knock us out. Apart from anything Porto would have had to chase the game which would have left spaces in behind for us to attack. Jose was incredibly lucky to win the CL with Porto.
No surprise to see Kiet taking the side against United though..
Well you can say that about any decision, a throw in wrongly awarded in the first minute, it alters the course of the game. We don't talk about those though, because the legitimacy of every result in history would be questioned. You're right that goals change games, but that's mainly for tactical reasons, I don't see how that one changed the game tactically as Porto were chasing it anyway.
How can you compare a throw-in decision to a goal that was miles onside? Porto weren't exactly throwing caution to the wind, they were trying not to go further behind and grab a goal at the end. If you remember that free kick was completely against the run of play, that's why it hurt so much.
They're both incidents which change the course of a game.
Don't be absurd. How can you equate the two? One dramatically alters the course of a game and the other is a fecking throw-in.
I'm not equating them you mug, you can't actually be stupid enough to think I'm saying they're both as important as each other, I am saying that they both change the course of a game. Often goals change games tactically significantly, because the aims of both teams change, in this case though, a goal wouldn't have changed the game tactically very much, as Porto still needed a goal to have any chance of qualification. There would have been a lot of significance when it comes to the end result - Extra Time rather than Porto going through, but other than that I don't see how anything would have changed any more than it does with a wrongly awarded throw in.
The irony here, of course, is that kietotheworld refuses to discuss the head to head record between Madrid and Barca last season without trying to claim that Pepe's (in his opinion) harsh red card unfairly influenced the outcome.
A red card has a lot more tactical significance than a goal which doesn't change the aims for either side.