SAF won everything with Aberdeen, in Scotland and in Europe
Moyes didn't win nothing, and he is 47 yo
Next Man Utd Manager Expected To Be Jose Mourinho Or David Moyes
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
SAF won everything with Aberdeen, in Scotland and in Europe
Moyes didn't win nothing, and he is 47 yo
Its not like he won them with Rangers and Celtic. I mean he still remains the last manager to win the Scottish League with a club other than Rangers or Celtic.
His achievements at Aberdeen are incredibly understated. Well because ofcourse his achievements at United pretty much shadow everything else.
My concern about Mourinho is if he has the ability to recognize younger talent, and the ability and patience to develop them. I don't think his Porto team was star studded when he took over, and I don't think they spent crazy on the team. I don't remember much about them prior to his CL run to be honest, but it appears that he at least was able to coach up players that were maybe not considered super stars.
But then at Chelsea, he had Roman buy a ton of talent. At Inter he inherited a ton of talent. And at Madrid he inherited a ton of talent and is able to buy even more. So my point is that he has never had to rely on developing young players from the youth system, or allow young signings to properly develop over a few years. The philosophy of building through youth with a sprinkling of big transfers is such a core component of what Manchester United is all about, dating back to Busby, if not before.
I agree strongly with this. It's one reason why I'm still not confident that Jose would be ideal. He's stated he wants to manage Portugal, I would assume he'd take that job as his last managerial role in his career after possibly being with us.
If that was the case, he'd be here for 5 years or so and that's not good enough. There's no point employing a temporary manager who will want and thrive for immediate success without building for the future. Why would Jose care about the youth system when he wouldn't be the benefiter of the developing players for the coming years?
Was much closer in standard during the 80's when Fergie was in charge.
Rangers and Celtic would have given the top sides in England a decent game in the 80's, albeit the English sides would be stronger. Rangers used to sign some of the English league's better players(Steven, Hateley, Gray, etc)
Nothing like it is now.
I don't care for short term success after Ferguson leaves, I'm willing to wait while a young, ambitious, sensible manager learns the ropes. I'm not too keen on Mourinho, he can feck off
20/30 years ago the Scottish League was on a par with the English one.
Not half as embarrassing as fans from such a major club who have such a continuing hard on for another club's manager that they are desperate for him to take over their club even though they already have the best manager in the world.
Jose's comments about us are not a testament that he's desperate to manage us...he just says it as it is that's all.
Embarrassing is perhaps overstating it, I do find it bewildering though.
Am I the only one who thinks United's next manager will be Ole?
Fergie has years left. Ole will get more experience and I think will be partnered with an experienced assistant like CQ or someone like that.
Fergie has years left. Ole will get more experience and I think will be partnered with an experienced assistant like CQ or someone like that.
Do people still want Moyes?
It would be a huge ask. I wouldn't want a poor managerial stint to hinder Ole's legend status at the club.
A bit too early for him, if he came back to the club as assistant manager alongside the next manager then he could work his way up to it. Is he arrogant and strong enough for such a job also?
It would be a huge ask for any manager in the entire world.
Even Mourinhio.
Even Mourinhio.
It's nauseating.
Every time he speaks we get folk drooling over his every utterance, believing that he says everything because of an overwhelming desire to manage United.
It's like the poor lad that fancies that trophy girl and somehow manages to convince himself that she's madly in love with him whenever she smiles or says hello....after all, she wouldn't smile or say hello if she wasn't would she.
I fear for the future of some of our talents if we hire Mourinho.
I would rather see us "gamble" on Owen Coyle. Bolton players description of his approach reminds me of how our players describe Fergusons.
I would rather see us "gamble" on Owen Coyle. Bolton players description of his approach reminds me of how our players describe Fergusons.
Touche!I do kind of feel that he goes out of his way to praise us at times, though.
It's logical to expect United fans to think about who will replace Ferguson when he is the age he is. He could last another 5-6 years or he could leave in a season. What's true is he wont last another 25 years, we are coming to the end of Fergies reign, not the start.
As for Mourinho, he clearly wants to go down in history as the best manager ever. His greatest challenge left is not winning more leagues or cups or european cups, it is surpassing what Ferguson has achieved and that is completely dominating a league for over 20 years. There are only a few clubs that are going to give him both the opportunity to do that as well as a high enough profile.
You think Madrid would keep Mourinho for 20 years? With all the presidential bullshit that goes on there? What about a club in Italy with it's much diminished reputation?
When Ferguson does eventually retire, a long time in the future we all hope, Mourinho and Manchester United are a perfect fit. One is a manager with proven ability to dominate the Premier League and win European Cups, another a huge club with a massive profile and a proven history of keeping faith in successful managers and not interfering with their management of the club.
As for Mourinho, he clearly wants to go down in history as the best manager ever. His greatest challenge left is not winning more leagues or cups or european cups, it is surpassing what Ferguson has achieved and that is completely dominating a league for over 20 years. There are only a few clubs that are going to give him both the opportunity to do that as well as a high enough profile.
You think Madrid would keep Mourinho for 20 years? With all the presidential bullshit that goes on there? What about a club in Italy with it's much diminished reputation?
When Ferguson does eventually retire, a long time in the future we all hope, Mourinho and Manchester United are a perfect fit. One is a manager with proven ability to dominate the Premier League and win European Cups, another a huge club with a massive profile and a proven history of keeping faith in successful managers and not interfering with their management of the club.
The nice thing about it is we've been nearing that end for a decade now. Heck, even when he made the U-turn in 2002 he said it would be no more than three extea years. Yeah, right!
Five years is not 'a temporary manager'. For 99% of the clubs in the world, 99% of the time, a five-year tenure would be like forever. You can't dismiss a potential manager because you think he'll ONLY be here for FIVE YEARS and that's not enough.
So if we were to hire Jose, and he stated he would only be here for a fixed amount of time, would you be happy to have him at the club, even though that may sacrifice the development of youth players? Is he so special and unique that he can walk into the club and leave when he desires?
I understand five years is much more than the average managerial stint at a club. However a manager should go into their job planning to be there until they're sacked (maybe not with lower league clubs) but with a club like United, one of the biggest in the world, how higher can you get?
The whole thing is just too far fetched. A manager comes in, he signs a contract. He may get a new one and stay afterwards, he may end up being sacked after six months. That's managerial life.
If Mourinho comes in and says he'll do five years, I'd say fine. Yeah, I'd be happy with that, because he's the best man for the job. And maybe after five years he's figure out he doesn't want to go anywhere. Maybe after one year we'll have enough of him and he'll be gone. I know it's a dark, scary world after Fergie's 25 years+, but that's what we're facing. One day, I don't actually think it will be that soon...
The right thing to do would be to appoint the best man for the job. To say 'we're Man United, and if whoever we get will want to leave in a few years time, he's nuts'. Not appoint second best, because we think he'll stay longer. Niether will be Sir Alex, we have to accept that.
Just posted in another thread, but probably more apt for this one.
Mourinho is the only choice for the job IMHO:
1. Obviously the longer SAF goes on the better, but it is inevitable he will soon(ish) retire.
2. Please can this myth about how Man United play sexy football and Jose would spoil that be stopped; we've probably ground out more 1-0 scrappy wins than any team I can remember, so let's not delude ourselves in that we play some phenomenal Barca/Arsenal-esque football.
3. Winning is what matter the most to players, the fans and the owners, and THAT will be the number one priority when looking for a new manager
4. How many young players did SAF bring through when he first joined United? He bought experienced players and got the job done (or tried to initially) before he could command the respect to build the club (and youth).
5. Jose has hopped around quite a few clubs but each has been a logical step or a push out - he has stated he wants a long stint somewhere so if he can convince that he's in it for the long haul it may bear differently - and probably change the way he runs the club too (i.e. he knew and everyone knew he was at Inter for the short-haul, hence he pragmatically bought players in their prime that could do the job)
Mourinho is the only choice for the job IMHO:
1. Obviously the longer SAF goes on the better, but it is inevitable he will soon(ish) retire.
2. Please can this myth about how Man United play sexy football and Jose would spoil that be stopped; we've probably ground out more 1-0 scrappy wins than any team I can remember, so let's not delude ourselves in that we play some phenomenal Barca/Arsenal-esque football.
3. Winning is what matter the most to players, the fans and the owners, and THAT will be the number one priority when looking for a new manager
4. How many young players did SAF bring through when he first joined United? He bought experienced players and got the job done (or tried to initially) before he could command the respect to build the club (and youth).
5. Jose has hopped around quite a few clubs but each has been a logical step or a push out - he has stated he wants a long stint somewhere so if he can convince that he's in it for the long haul it may bear differently - and probably change the way he runs the club too (i.e. he knew and everyone knew he was at Inter for the short-haul, hence he pragmatically bought players in their prime that could do the job)
Fixed, but agree in general.
I wouldn't mind turning from SAF FC to Mourinho FC. He is a fantastic manager, a great personality (love/hate) and most importantly the winning mentality that suits our club. No he is not perfect, he can be extremely controversial especially in the media, but our SAF is no angel either.
Let him take the reins.
Let him take the reins.
Before anyone bothers to click on it there are no quotes or anything.
Sun journos think it's a hot topic because they've been reading our forum.
But when has Mourinho ever brought youth through? That's my biggest concern with him. I never feel like he has the long term interests of the club particularly high on his list of priorities.
Too soporific
To be fair, you could count the number of managers who wouldn't want the job on one hand.
You've got to factor in the clubs he's been at though don't you?
The likes of Madrid, Inter and a free spending Chelsea aren't really intent on bringing in younger players through to be fair.
I'm not saying Mourinho asked and didn't get the backing for youth development but he's an intelligent man and would surely realise that its part of the identity of Manchester United.
True. I'm sure Chelsea were only interested in immediate success and i've no doubt that was the case at Inter and Real too. It doesn't really get rid of that concern though. We have no idea how he is with youngsters or how he develops them.
Mourinho made for Man Utd: Claims of ignoring youth talent a myth | Premiership News | tribalfootball.com
Now, I do have issues with some of the assertions made - such as Baloteli - how many mangers would have ignored a talent like him? Also, for me, it isn't so much giving debuts to players at the club, but spotting and developing talent over a period of time. Has Jose been anywhere long enough to leave his mark on a youth set up (and players) and bring them through himself? Baloteli and Santon were already at Inter, he just had to pick them. Pep Guardiola, on the other hand, had a real hand in the progression of Barcelona players - Busquets and Pedro being the best two examples I can think of; coached them at youth/reserve levels and gave them their chance in the first team, sticking by them when it didn't seem like they had the talent levels required - and when the club (seemingly, according to rumours) were giving him the money to buy better/more established stars.
We don't, but we do know thats he's been successful wherever he's been and seem to have the right personality for the job.
He's a student of football and he's always praised for his protection of his own players. I personally wouldn't have any concerns with him regarding bringing younger players through with potential.
I can't think of any other manager who'd I'd rather have when Sir Alex ultimately retires.
So you'd be happy to see the club not win any major honours for a few years then - with no guarantee that the manager will ever be good enough to bring sustained success?
Sure the Glazers disagree. Lots of debts to pay and succesful clubs generate a lot more money than average ones.
Firstly all of the worries around how long he'll stay are largely pointless - he has now managed in all top leagues, so if he does join united where will he go if he leaves? He constatntly talks about coming back to WEngland and would no doubt want to bring success to United long term rather than stay in Fergie's shadow. Its worth remembering he was sacked from Chelsea - he might still be there now if not.
As regards youth, you can only bring through talent that's there. Guardiola may have spotted the players referred to in the youth system but he isn't single handedly responsible for making them the players they are. He was given a job at Barca as reserve coach as a cog in a system which starts from the bottom - as envisiged by Cruyff years ago. Guardiola may have eased them into the first team and coached them into top class players but every coach from the kids teams up has had as big an impact in development of those players.
Arguably spotting a player in the youth team is no different to Mourinho spotting Drogba and Essien in France and turning them into top draw players.
Guardiola is clearly a top coach - but has the benefit of being at a club where top players seem to be churned out year on year. The club is reaping the benefit of 20 years of developmment from bottom to top - not some magician who turns average players into great ones.
Mourinho at Chelsea had no youth system to work from - hence why they spent millions bringing in Arnesen and assorted "prodigious talents". Inter also rarely produce young players - usually buying South American's or players from lesser know clubs. Doesn't make him any less of a coach, and indeed shows he can get the best out of what he's got.
Mourinho would probably be just as succesful at Barca with the same team, whereas question marks remain over whether Guardiola would bring success to a club without such great youth players coming through, or so many world class players in the first team. Unless and until he moves on to a club where he's not blessed with such talent that has surely got to be a concern.
Just an interesting point to ponder - Had it not been for Abrahmovich's meddling, how long do you think Mourinho would have stayed at Chelsea until he left on his own accord?
With hands off ownership, he would probably still be there. Roman's bizarre post Mourinho managerial musical chairs meddling proves that its virtually impossible to be successful at Chelsea for any length of time.
Until he won the European Cup with Chelsea. So he'd still be there in 2020.