Next Draft - Ideas and Discussions

Football's Greatest Managers #1: Helenio Herrera

(Source: Multiple websites)


Helenio_herrera_inter2.jpg


We kick off this series on Football's Greatest Managers with a controversial choice, a manager who's revered and reviled at the same time, one who triggered intense discussions on whether the was the God or the Devil of Football Managers...but undisputedly one of the Greatest Football Managers of all time!

He ruled his teams with a combination of dictatorial discipline, gruesome training regimes, bizarre psychological habits, military-style training camps, and strict dietary plans. Nobody possessed a fiercer will to win – and nobody went further in order to achieve it. His methods could be cruel and heartless, his teams ruthless and cynical. An egocentric, he revelled in the attention. “Go ahead and judge him as the mood takes you,” Gianni Brera, the influential Italian football columnist, wrote in 1966. “Clown and genius, buffoon and ascetic, rogue and model father, sultan and faithful husband, swaggering fool and quiet achiever, delinquent and competent, megalomaniac and health fanatic. Herrera is all of the above and more.”

Early Life:

Known as ‘HH’ to his friends, Herrera was born in Argentina in 1916 to Spanish parents. His father, Francisco, was an exiled anarchist from Andalusia, and a carpenter by trade. His mother, Maria Gavilán Martínez, was a cleaner. Doubts surrounded Herrera’s date of birth. His French, Spanish and Argentine passports claimed he had been born in 1916, but his official website says he falsified the date to give himself six extra years (:lol:) . The date on the original document had apparently been 10 April, 1910.

Early Football Career:

In 1920, Herrera’s family left Argentina for Casablanca where he started playing football. He was an imposing defender, but of limited ability. A knee injury in his mid-20s hampered Herrera’s ambitions. In 1945, he rejoined Stade Français, as head coach. Three years later he joined Real Valladolid, before a stint with Atlético Madrid from 1949 to 1953 brought him two La Liga titles. He proceeded to coach Málaga, Deportivo de La Coruña, and Sevilla, before managing Portuguese club Belenenses in 1957-58.

Barcelona:

In 1958, Barcelona hired Herrera on a mission to dethrone Real Madrid. The arrival of Di Stefano changed Real Madrid giving them multiple league and European wins while Barca rarely qualified. The situation was desperate. Barça had an extraordinary side, with players such as Luis Suárez, László Kubala, Sándor Kocsis and Zoltán Czibor. But a mentality of inferiority and victimisation had pervaded the club. Herrera recognised Barça’s psychological frailty and sought to rectify it.

During the first one, players vomited. Perceived weaknesses got no sympathy. One player complained he was sick, only to be sent back into training. When another appeared with a plaster cast, Herrera broke it off. On one occasion, according to Lowe, a player was suspected of being led astray by his girlfriend. The club had tried to break up the couple, even hiring private detectives, but to no avail. When told of the situation, Herrera suggested that they hire someone to sleep with her. :devil:

Herrera delivered the title in his first season. That meant qualification to the European Cup. In 1959-60, Barça reached the semifinals and met Madrid, who were yet to lose in the competition. Herrera dropped Kubala (whose off pitch drinking lifestyle did not go well with the manager) and barca lost 6-2 on aggregate. Barça later won La Liga for a second time, but Herrera left the club. They would not win another league title until 1974.

Internazionale and HH's version of Catenaccio:

In 1960, Herrera signed a lucrative contract with Internazionale. “When I came to Inter, there was a terrible ambience, There were boards everywhere about past championships, very impressive you understand, but so distant.” Herrera told Kuper.

Contrary to the popular beliefs Herrera did not invent the Catenaccio system. It's origin's can be traced to Karl Rappan in Switzerland and then popularized in Europe by Nereo Rocco. It was Rocco's Milan that contributed heavily to the myth of catenaccio and its reputation suggesting an ultra-defensive system where five defenders sit deep, protected by aggressive ball-winners; a game plan designed to ruin football as a spectacle; to win at all costs. Rocco is said to have told his team: “Kick anything that moves; if it’s the ball, so much the better.

Brera wrote that Herrera turned to catenaccio in sheer desperation after a poor start in the early 1960s. That claim is supported by Arrigo Sacchi “When he first arrived, he played attacking football. And then it changed. I remember a game against Rocco’s Padova. Inter dominated. Padova crossed the halfway line three times, scored twice and hit the post. And Herrera was crucified in the media. So what did he do? He started playing with a libero, told Suárez to sit deep and hit long balls, and started playing counter-attacking football. For me, La Grande Inter had great players, but it was a team that had just one objective: winning.

Herrera claimed his system was misunderstood, because others had copied it and left out several attacking principles. This is supported by Mazzola, who believes the misconception is rooted in the European campaigns that served to establish Inter’s notoriety. “When I hear about Inter playing catenaccio, I have to say we played about six matches with catenaccio and 40 matches with attacking football,” Mazzola told FIFA.com. “I remember my team-mates Picchi and Guarneri, two centre-backs, who during San Siro home games could spend 60 minutes looking into the stands, trying to spot a girl to take out that evening, because the opposition only played in their half. But then, when we played abroad – and I guess this was a mistake – we didn’t feel very comfortable and secure, and stayed back more. We had five attacking players in the side, six if you include Facchetti, who used to get forward a lot, something that no one else did at the time. It’s true that we sometimes employed a very defensive system away from home, but we regularly played 4-2-4, and everyone worked really hard.”

The team also had a nickname: La Grande Inter. This was not undeserved. They were disciplined, durable, steely, skilful, spirited; fortified by Herrera’s fitness regime and team-building. The tactic was catenaccio, but with vital tweaks. Giacinto Facchetti, an athletic former centre-forward converted into an adventurous left-back, wreaked havoc down the flank. In 1965-66, he scored ten league goals. Centrally played an uncompromising sweeper with an excellent long pass – Picchi – and two centre-backs, Aristide Guarneri and Tarcisio Burgnich. The entire right flank was occupied by Jair, a hard-running Brazilian winger. In midfield, Suárez pulled the strings from deep. Corso loitered on the left, while Sandro Mazzola – son of the legendary Torino captain Valentino – played off the main striker.

In 1960-61, Inter flew out of the blocks ending the season with 73 goals in 34 games. The next season, Inter struck 59, but conceded three less; 31. The year after, Inter reached their statistical pinnacle. They shipped 20 goals, and although they struck only 56 times, it was enough to win the league. In 1963-64, the defence held firm again, conceding 21, while the attack hit 54. The second league title under Herrera, in 1965, was more entertaining, with 29 conceded and 68 scored. Between 1960-65, Inter enjoyed only two league campaigns of exceptional defending. They could be masterful defenders when they wanted, as Foot writes “Herrera’s enduring reputation as the ‘controversial missionary of catenaccio’ is built more on what was seen as the cynical will-to-win of his teams – their attitude – than on the way they actually played football”.

Defeat / Pivotal change in world football / Lisbon Lions / Total Football:

Football historians will carefully supply the single cataclysmic events that have changed the direction of football since World War II, and they are usually associated with Herrera. Celtic’s shock European Cup win in Lisbon in 1967 over Herrera’s Inter, a team seemingly invincible at the time, set the club, its coach and the system into something of a tailspin. Inter were feared and despised, but it was difficult to argue with the efficiency of their play and the challenge it offered to everyone to subvert it and usher in a new era of less cynical football. Jock Stein’s Celtic were too much an accidental confluence of great individuals to be considered the architects of Herrera’s downfall. Rinus Michel’s ‘Total Football’ conceit of the 1970s was the true inverse of the system, and Ajax’s victory over Inter in 1972 was probably a more significant event, but it’s an inescapable fact that Herrera gave us all this. It’s a sort of Yin-Yang view of the football universe, in that the presence of one paradigm will inevitably give rise to its opposite.


Later Years:

In 1967-68, after Inter slumped to fifth, Herrera left for AS Roma. Down in the capital, Herrera never reproduced the success he had had at Inter. In five years, he only won the Coppa Italia, in 1969. In 1973 after the controversy surrounding the death of Giuliano Taccola which was attributed to the training regime of Herrera, he left Roma to rejoin Inter. He oversaw an unsuccessful season, before suffering a heart attack. He blamed stress, and opted to quit coaching.


Coaching Style:

Discipline:

Discipline was the byword under Herrera. Players would cross Herrera at their peril. No individualistic quality trumped the value of obedience. Herrera cultivated what became known as the ritiro. They were no-nonsense training camps where players were locked up in hotels for days, surrounded by staff, pitches and equipment. The intention was to increase concentration before games. The camps could be brutal. Inter would book up entire hotels, so no other people were in sight. The players swapped family and friends for running and tactical drilling. When English forward Gerry Hitchens left the club, he said it felt like “coming out of the bloody army”. Slackness rarely went unpunished. During a cross-country run, Wilson writes, Hitchens, Suárez and Corso fell behind the group and arrived late at the base. They discovered that the bus had left, and were forced to make the six-mile journey back to Milan on their own.

Player/Crowd Psychology:

Herrera possessed an intuitive understanding of his players’ psyche. During one tour, according to Lowe, when Czibor bemoaned having to stay away from home for so long, Herrera promised he could go back if he scored thrice. He hit a hat-trick in the first match. To the Catalans, he talked ‘Colours of Catalonia, play for your nation.’ And to the foreigners, I talked money,” Antoni Ramallets, the goalkeeper, told “He had files on everything. He could tell you about the parents of some Italian or German, what day he was born, everything.

Critics often felt he went too far in pursuit of victory. More than once, these included his own players. “I’ve been accused of being tyrannical and completely ruthless with my players,” he said, according to Jonathan Wilson’s book Inverting the Pyramid: The History of Football Tactics(2008). “But I merely implemented things that were later copied by every single club: hard work, perfectionism, physical training, diets, and three days of concentration before every game.”

The demands of discipline and abstention were modelled on Herrera’s own private life. He never smoked and rarely drank. According to his daughter, Luna, his pasta dishes contained only olive oil and parmesan. He did yoga every morning. When awaking, he would tell himself: “I am strong, calm, I fear nothing, I am beautiful.” He was even wary of drinking too much water, hiding the bottle on the floor and guarding it with his feet when dining with his children.

The pre-match routines could border on the bizarre. He embraced his players before kick-off, and held one-on-one meetings known as ‘confessions’. He hunted information that could strengthen his relationship with the squad, instructing his masseur to overhear football-related utterances aired when players were in for treatment. Herrera served herbal tea and coffee with aspirin. Suárez, one of the key players, held a belief that if wine was spilled during a meal, he would score in the next game. Prior to crucial matches, Herrera would knock over a glass deliberately.

He emphasised the importance of crowd support, and participated in forming fan associations and networks. “Before away games, he would go on to the pitch first to make the crowd yell at him, so that they were already tired by the time we came out” Adrián Escudero, a member of the Atlético squad, recalled.

End of an Era:

On 9th Nov 1997, Herrera passed away. His ashes rest, after lengthy negotiations, against a brick wall that was granted, refused and then granted once more thanks to the intervention of Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth, in a marble niche hidden in the ivy of the Anglican cemetery on the island cemetery of San Michele in Venice.

Loved or hated, there is absolutely no doubt of his lasting legacy to the world of football!

tomb-300.jpg
 
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Not sure when anto will get round to starting the thread, but here you go...Will probably tweak it a bit more later, but as a 1st draft this should do good.

My Raynor is ready to go as well as is the Swedish team and all player profiles.

EDIT: Also wtf? :lol:"When told of the situation, Herrera suggested that they hire someone to sleep with her. :devil:"
 
I won't participate in the next draft as a main manager (maybe AM) but will follow it.

What are your suggestions for the next draft?
 
So, what's next? After couple of all-time, we need a specific criteria.

Time for a "Meh" draft? I.e a reserve reserve draft (all played banned + all players picked in reserve draft to be blocked).

Should refresh the pool.

Yeah, GOATs should be banned for the next draft if you want to keep people enthusiastic.
 
A draft with only modern players would be nice, dont think we had one in last 2 years....
 
Probably a good time for the league-era specific ideas that were floated around before the last couple of drafts. We had the '90s Serie A Draft' in the newbies long ago which was awesome, something along those lines.

@Physiocrat you in for your second installment for the No Mates series (think it was 46-66)?
 
I would be interested in a league draft for this century, or even just 2000-2009, would enjoy an English premier league or La Liga one.
 
So, what's next? After couple of all-time, we need a specific criteria.

Time for a "Meh" draft? I.e a reserve reserve draft (all played banned + all players picked in reserve draft to be blocked).

Should refresh the pool.

You've changed your tune :mad:

I forgot to reply to this the other day, but its an interesting point. I reckon the mooted follow up to Aldo's Reserves Draft is the way to go if we fancy a draft with a more obscure pool. Basically add every player chosen in that draft to the blocked list Aldo posted, then everyone else is fair game. There's one guy in particular that I'd love to build a team around. We actually came close to picking him first or second in that Reserve Draft, then changed plans completely.

as chester i would also love to play a draft with only good players that never get picked. Maybe block everyone from aldo reserves draft and previous all time draft, in that case i have a question for @harms :D Even though i didnt watch him enough i always loved Zyryanov, when ever i watched him he was class. Do you think he would be good enough for that type of draft or even then he would be out of depth?

It's literally be the dregs of football esp in later draft rounds...and that would be boring.

Ideally they'd fit better in a Reality Draft. Instead of DoF GOATs just make a list of good but not picked players and distribute them at random. Fill up other positions with popular picks and you have a cracking combination.

Come on man we're proposing a draft with 400 players in the entire history of the sport being excluded. We'd hardly have to plumb the depths of the sport to find another 192 mostly capable players! The matches would probably be low-voting affairs as it would be difficult for most of us to seperate the teams, but the drafting would be challenging and alot of fun IMO. Like @Chesterlestreet pointing out regarding another Olsen, it'd be good to see players like that getting highlighted. I still suspect there's a few knocking about that wouldn't look positively out of place in a proper all-time pool.

Keyword: few. Not saying they aren't. There would be around 20+ hidden gems in a pool of nearly 200, imo.

There's alot of talent beyond those few standouts who might never feature in an unrestricted all-time draft but who were still excellent footballers. I wouldn't expect us to be drafting the likes of Heskey or Cattermole by the time our later picks rolled around.

EDIT: And if the drop in quality really was that precipitous it would make for an amusing drafting process IMO.

I was well excited for that draft back then :(
 
Probably a good time for the league-era specific ideas that were floated around before the last couple of drafts. We had the '90s Serie A Draft' in the newbies long ago which was awesome, something along those lines.

@Physiocrat you in for your second installment for the No Mates series (think it was 46-66)?
80s Serie A :drool:
 
All good suggestions - would be keen on anything specific with some theme (eg Serie A particular decade) rather than a more random pool restriction.
 
Another British-Irish Draft would be good to do at some stage. I'd favour a date of birth cut off this time to avoid the more intractable problems in comparing across eras. I generally don't mind those discussions but it played a particularly prominent role in the previous British draft so there's little point rehashing the same stuff. Maybe players born post 1st January 1937, which would include Charlton but exclude Duncan Edwards.
 
Yeah @Pat_Mustard, I'd be up for that. Would quite like to get into more of the 1970s and 1980s British and Irish players at some point.
 
Another British-Irish Draft would be good to do at some stage. I'd favour a date of birth cut off this time to avoid the more intractable problems in comparing across eras. I generally don't mind those discussions but it played a particularly prominent role in the previous British draft so there's little point rehashing the same stuff. Maybe players born post 1st January 1937, which would include Charlton but exclude Duncan Edwards.
This one sounds fantastic! Won't mind pushing the cut off date even further but that's good anyway.
 
80s Serie A :drool:
Yeah, that would be great as well.

The 90s Serie one that I played down under was definitely one of the best ones I've played on here, fantastic talent across the board and the league specific criteria makes room for some very fresh discussions.
 
Football's Greatest Managers #1: Helenio Herrera

(Source: Multiple websites)


Helenio_herrera_inter2.jpg


We kick off this series on Football's Greatest Managers with a controversial choice, a manager who's revered and reviled at the same time, one who triggered intense discussions on whether the was the God or the Devil of Football Managers...but undisputedly one of the Greatest Football Managers of all time!

He ruled his teams with a combination of dictatorial discipline, gruesome training regimes, bizarre psychological habits, military-style training camps, and strict dietary plans. Nobody possessed a fiercer will to win – and nobody went further in order to achieve it. His methods could be cruel and heartless, his teams ruthless and cynical. An egocentric, he revelled in the attention. “Go ahead and judge him as the mood takes you,” Gianni Brera, the influential Italian football columnist, wrote in 1966. “Clown and genius, buffoon and ascetic, rogue and model father, sultan and faithful husband, swaggering fool and quiet achiever, delinquent and competent, megalomaniac and health fanatic. Herrera is all of the above and more.”

Early Life:

Known as ‘HH’ to his friends, Herrera was born in Argentina in 1916 to Spanish parents. His father, Francisco, was an exiled anarchist from Andalusia, and a carpenter by trade. His mother, Maria Gavilán Martínez, was a cleaner. Doubts surrounded Herrera’s date of birth. His French, Spanish and Argentine passports claimed he had been born in 1916, but his official website says he falsified the date to give himself six extra years (:lol:) . The date on the original document had apparently been 10 April, 1910.

Early Football Career:

In 1920, Herrera’s family left Argentina for Casablanca where he started playing football. He was an imposing defender, but of limited ability. A knee injury in his mid-20s hampered Herrera’s ambitions. In 1945, he rejoined Stade Français, as head coach. Three years later he joined Real Valladolid, before a stint with Atlético Madrid from 1949 to 1953 brought him two La Liga titles. He proceeded to coach Málaga, Deportivo de La Coruña, and Sevilla, before managing Portuguese club Belenenses in 1957-58.

Barcelona:

In 1958, Barcelona hired Herrera on a mission to dethrone Real Madrid. The arrival of Di Stefano changed Real Madrid giving them multiple league and European wins while Barca rarely qualified. The situation was desperate. Barça had an extraordinary side, with players such as Luis Suárez, László Kubala, Sándor Kocsis and Zoltán Czibor. But a mentality of inferiority and victimisation had pervaded the club. Herrera recognised Barça’s psychological frailty and sought to rectify it.

During the first one, players vomited. Perceived weaknesses got no sympathy. One player complained he was sick, only to be sent back into training. When another appeared with a plaster cast, Herrera broke it off. On one occasion, according to Lowe, a player was suspected of being led astray by his girlfriend. The club had tried to break up the couple, even hiring private detectives, but to no avail. When told of the situation, Herrera suggested that they hire someone to sleep with her. :devil:

Herrera delivered the title in his first season. That meant qualification to the European Cup. In 1959-60, Barça reached the semifinals and met Madrid, who were yet to lose in the competition. Herrera dropped Kubala (whose off pitch drinking lifestyle did not go well with the manager) and barca lost 6-2 on aggregate. Barça later won La Liga for a second time, but Herrera left the club. They would not win another league title until 1974.

Internazionale and HH's version of Catenaccio:

In 1960, Herrera signed a lucrative contract with Internazionale. “When I came to Inter, there was a terrible ambience, There were boards everywhere about past championships, very impressive you understand, but so distant.” Herrera told Kuper.

Contrary to the popular beliefs Herrera did not invent the Catenaccio system. It's origin's can be traced to Karl Rappan in Switzerland and then popularized in Europe by Nereo Rocco. It was Rocco's Milan that contributed heavily to the myth of catenaccio and its reputation suggesting an ultra-defensive system where five defenders sit deep, protected by aggressive ball-winners; a game plan designed to ruin football as a spectacle; to win at all costs. Rocco is said to have told his team: “Kick anything that moves; if it’s the ball, so much the better.

Brera wrote that Herrera turned to catenaccio in sheer desperation after a poor start in the early 1960s. That claim is supported by Arrigo Sacchi “When he first arrived, he played attacking football. And then it changed. I remember a game against Rocco’s Padova. Inter dominated. Padova crossed the halfway line three times, scored twice and hit the post. And Herrera was crucified in the media. So what did he do? He started playing with a libero, told Suárez to sit deep and hit long balls, and started playing counter-attacking football. For me, La Grande Inter had great players, but it was a team that had just one objective: winning.

Herrera claimed his system was misunderstood, because others had copied it and left out several attacking principles. This is supported by Mazzola, who believes the misconception is rooted in the European campaigns that served to establish Inter’s notoriety. “When I hear about Inter playing catenaccio, I have to say we played about six matches with catenaccio and 40 matches with attacking football,” Mazzola told FIFA.com. “I remember my team-mates Picchi and Guarneri, two centre-backs, who during San Siro home games could spend 60 minutes looking into the stands, trying to spot a girl to take out that evening, because the opposition only played in their half. But then, when we played abroad – and I guess this was a mistake – we didn’t feel very comfortable and secure, and stayed back more. We had five attacking players in the side, six if you include Facchetti, who used to get forward a lot, something that no one else did at the time. It’s true that we sometimes employed a very defensive system away from home, but we regularly played 4-2-4, and everyone worked really hard.”

The team also had a nickname: La Grande Inter. This was not undeserved. They were disciplined, durable, steely, skilful, spirited; fortified by Herrera’s fitness regime and team-building. The tactic was catenaccio, but with vital tweaks. Giacinto Facchetti, an athletic former centre-forward converted into an adventurous left-back, wreaked havoc down the flank. In 1965-66, he scored ten league goals. Centrally played an uncompromising sweeper with an excellent long pass – Picchi – and two centre-backs, Aristide Guarneri and Tarcisio Burgnich. The entire right flank was occupied by Jair, a hard-running Brazilian winger. In midfield, Suárez pulled the strings from deep. Corso loitered on the left, while Sandro Mazzola – son of the legendary Torino captain Valentino – played off the main striker.

In 1960-61, Inter flew out of the blocks ending the season with 73 goals in 34 games. The next season, Inter struck 59, but conceded three less; 31. The year after, Inter reached their statistical pinnacle. They shipped 20 goals, and although they struck only 56 times, it was enough to win the league. In 1963-64, the defence held firm again, conceding 21, while the attack hit 54. The second league title under Herrera, in 1965, was more entertaining, with 29 conceded and 68 scored. Between 1960-65, Inter enjoyed only two league campaigns of exceptional defending. They could be masterful defenders when they wanted, as Foot writes “Herrera’s enduring reputation as the ‘controversial missionary of catenaccio’ is built more on what was seen as the cynical will-to-win of his teams – their attitude – than on the way they actually played football”.

Defeat / Pivotal change in world football / Lisbon Lions / Total Football:

Football historians will carefully supply the single cataclysmic events that have changed the direction of football since World War II, and they are usually associated with Herrera. Celtic’s shock European Cup win in Lisbon in 1967 over Herrera’s Inter, a team seemingly invincible at the time, set the club, its coach and the system into something of a tailspin. Inter were feared and despised, but it was difficult to argue with the efficiency of their play and the challenge it offered to everyone to subvert it and usher in a new era of less cynical football. Jock Stein’s Celtic were too much an accidental confluence of great individuals to be considered the architects of Herrera’s downfall. Rinus Michel’s ‘Total Football’ conceit of the 1970s was the true inverse of the system, and Ajax’s victory over Inter in 1972 was probably a more significant event, but it’s an inescapable fact that Herrera gave us all this. It’s a sort of Yin-Yang view of the football universe, in that the presence of one paradigm will inevitably give rise to its opposite.


Later Years:

In 1967-68, after Inter slumped to fifth, Herrera left for AS Roma. Down in the capital, Herrera never reproduced the success he had had at Inter. In five years, he only won the Coppa Italia, in 1969. In 1973 after the controversy surrounding the death of Giuliano Taccola which was attributed to the training regime of Herrera, he left Roma to rejoin Inter. He oversaw an unsuccessful season, before suffering a heart attack. He blamed stress, and opted to quit coaching.


Coaching Style:

Discipline:

Discipline was the byword under Herrera. Players would cross Herrera at their peril. No individualistic quality trumped the value of obedience. Herrera cultivated what became known as the ritiro. They were no-nonsense training camps where players were locked up in hotels for days, surrounded by staff, pitches and equipment. The intention was to increase concentration before games. The camps could be brutal. Inter would book up entire hotels, so no other people were in sight. The players swapped family and friends for running and tactical drilling. When English forward Gerry Hitchens left the club, he said it felt like “coming out of the bloody army”. Slackness rarely went unpunished. During a cross-country run, Wilson writes, Hitchens, Suárez and Corso fell behind the group and arrived late at the base. They discovered that the bus had left, and were forced to make the six-mile journey back to Milan on their own.

Player/Crowd Psychology:

Herrera possessed an intuitive understanding of his players’ psyche. During one tour, according to Lowe, when Czibor bemoaned having to stay away from home for so long, Herrera promised he could go back if he scored thrice. He hit a hat-trick in the first match. To the Catalans, he talked ‘Colours of Catalonia, play for your nation.’ And to the foreigners, I talked money,” Antoni Ramallets, the goalkeeper, told “He had files on everything. He could tell you about the parents of some Italian or German, what day he was born, everything.

Critics often felt he went too far in pursuit of victory. More than once, these included his own players. “I’ve been accused of being tyrannical and completely ruthless with my players,” he said, according to Jonathan Wilson’s book Inverting the Pyramid: The History of Football Tactics(2008). “But I merely implemented things that were later copied by every single club: hard work, perfectionism, physical training, diets, and three days of concentration before every game.”

The demands of discipline and abstention were modelled on Herrera’s own private life. He never smoked and rarely drank. According to his daughter, Luna, his pasta dishes contained only olive oil and parmesan. He did yoga every morning. When awaking, he would tell himself: “I am strong, calm, I fear nothing, I am beautiful.” He was even wary of drinking too much water, hiding the bottle on the floor and guarding it with his feet when dining with his children.

The pre-match routines could border on the bizarre. He embraced his players before kick-off, and held one-on-one meetings known as ‘confessions’. He hunted information that could strengthen his relationship with the squad, instructing his masseur to overhear football-related utterances aired when players were in for treatment. Herrera served herbal tea and coffee with aspirin. Suárez, one of the key players, held a belief that if wine was spilled during a meal, he would score in the next game. Prior to crucial matches, Herrera would knock over a glass deliberately.

He emphasised the importance of crowd support, and participated in forming fan associations and networks. “Before away games, he would go on to the pitch first to make the crowd yell at him, so that they were already tired by the time we came out” Adrián Escudero, a member of the Atlético squad, recalled.

End of an Era:

On 9th Nov 1997, Herrera passed away. His ashes rest, after lengthy negotiations, against a brick wall that was granted, refused and then granted once more thanks to the intervention of Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth, in a marble niche hidden in the ivy of the Anglican cemetery on the island cemetery of San Michele in Venice.

Loved or hated, there is absolutely no doubt of his lasting legacy to the world of football!

tomb-300.jpg
Nice read,thanks for sharing.
 
Probably a good time for the league-era specific ideas that were floated around before the last couple of drafts. We had the '90s Serie A Draft' in the newbies long ago which was awesome, something along those lines.

@Physiocrat you in for your second installment for the No Mates series (think it was 46-66)?

Not yet. It's exam season and I'm a private tutor. I'll be ready to run one from around July. But don't worry it will run (assuming anyone wants to play it.
 
Another British-Irish Draft would be good to do at some stage. I'd favour a date of birth cut off this time to avoid the more intractable problems in comparing across eras. I generally don't mind those discussions but it played a particularly prominent role in the previous British draft so there's little point rehashing the same stuff. Maybe players born post 1st January 1937, which would include Charlton but exclude Duncan Edwards.

Yep, the other one had too many really old old-timers grabbing a little too much attention. People kept picking «legends» to fill up their defences (in particular) for whom there's hardly any hard evidence other than eulogies - fullbacks from before the offside rule was changed, etc.
 
If you want to see new players and have new debates, I'd suggest something like

'Any player whose country don't belong to the the blocked list (France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Brazil, Argentine, Uruguay, Hungary)'

Or to have a long list of unavailable players.
 
The youth draft is a good idea: the issue is the debates will be repetitive (young player with a track record VERSUS young player who doesn't play at the high level).
 
@antohan

Right moment to launch the Project?
It is really but I'm stuck workwise (no time for Uruguay 24-30, which would make for a good chronological start).

The current draft isn't helping either with @Annahnomoss still in it.

I looked into a few standalone players but it's not ideal.

It's clear to me it will be far better to contextualise. That is: Great Team/Manager + key players, then get into standalone players.

I really like @Edgar Allan Pillow 's effort with Helenio Herrera and his key men are out I think. Would be great to have him, Grande Inter and its players in one go but do we have volunteers for Luis Suárez, Facchetti, Mazzola, Picchi and Burgnich? Because if not done in context someone like Picchi is a pretty random player to focus on out of nowhere.
 
Actually... I'm increasingly convinced that context is a significant factor, what with the Monti vs Sindelar discussions...

So feck the process. We'll go chronological and pick great teams and players along the way in their appropriate context (e.g. advance through World Cups and do their great teams and/or players in one go). Makes for some great story arches too (English legends falling to Magyars, who go on to take down Uruguay's unbeaten record only to fall to the bloody Germans, etc).

It will be easier to manage contributions and for profilers to know roughly how long before it is their turn.

Fact is, most of the below have been picked and pretty well profiled before, so if you have throw your hat in (unpicked topics will be skipped):

Billy Meredith
Isabelino Gradin - Antohan
Artur Friedenreich
Karel Pesek
Uruguay 1924-30- Antohan
Andrade- Antohan
Nasazzi- Antohan
Scarone- Antohan
Fernández- Antohan
Monti
Sindelar
Zamora
Orsi
Meazza
Sarosi
Da Guia
Leonidas
Janes
Erico
La Maquina
Pedernera
Labruna
Moreno
Valentino Mazzola and Superga
Peñarol 49 (leads nicely into 1950)
Varela- Antohan
Schiaffino- Antohan
Ghiggia- Antohan
Míguez- Antohan
Zizinho
Ademir
Sweden 48-58 -Annah
Gren - Annah
Nordahl-Annah
Liedholm-Annah
Skoglund-Annah
Hamrin-Annah
Bergmark-Annah
Wright
Matthews
Finney
Aranycsapat
Puskas
Kocsis
Hidegkuti
Czibor
Bozsik
Grosics
Game of the Century-Anto
VR Andrade-Anto
Hohberg-Anto
Fritz Walter
Rahn
Julinho
Ocwirk
Babes? Pretty sure this is a standalone thread and there's probably one already.

And so on...

Off the top of my head. Probably need Chapman's Arsenal for example. Keeping ADS for Real straight after 58 WC and Kubala along with that context-wise.

Feel free to add names and who you pick up (if someone has the time bring along from previous list).
 
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Not really sure on the scope. I thought this was to be a collection of efforts done by managers previously (and maybe a step further) so that the profiling effort doesn't get lost after the match.

I'm working on Maslov next and that's not in there. What to do?
 
Not really sure on the scope. I thought this was to be a collection of efforts done by managers previously (and maybe a step further) so that the profiling effort doesn't get lost after the match.

I'm working on Maslov next and that's not in there. What to do?
We'll just add him to the list, of course, shouldn't be an issue. Maslov would be a good managerial starting point to discuss USSR team of late 50's to late 60's, despite him managing clubs and not the NT.

He managed Streltsov, Voronin and Ivanov at Torpedo, then a bunch of greats at Kyiv.

I'd say that just a few of USSR from that era greats needs to be mentioned/profiled - Yashin, Streltsov, Voronin, Netto, Ivanov (a must), Shesternyov, maybe Chislenko; plus I'd think about few others.
 
We'll just add him to the list, of course, shouldn't be an issue. Maslov would be a good managerial starting point to discuss USSR team of late 50's to late 60's, despite him managing clubs and not the NT.

He managed Streltsov, Voronin and Ivanov at Torpedo, then a bunch of greats at Kyiv.

I'd say that just a few of USSR from that era greats needs to be mentioned/profiled - Yashin, Streltsov, Voronin, Netto, Ivanov (a must), Shesternyov, definitely Chislenko; plus I'd think about few others.
:drool:
 
And so on...

Off the top of my head. Probably need Chapman's Arsenal for example. Keeping ADS for Real straight after 58 WC and Kubala along with that context-wise.

Feel free to add names and who you pick up (if someone has the time bring along from previous list).


I can do something on Chapman and that Bank of England Arsenal side with Cliff Bastin and Alex James as I have a few books on Arsenal history. Can't promise a deadline but I can get started this weekend
 
I'll do some of the Yugoslav players of Cajkovski era when I have some spare time, also the great Steua side from the 80's which deserve a mention.

Also Some Bulgarian greats like Asparuhov, Zhekov, Dermendzhiev, Bonev and so forth.

Not sure if the the Gladbach side in the 70's was mentioned so far as a separate topic? We use to pick some of the stars from there but not fully profiled it unless @Balu or someone else has done before and I've missed it?
 
My stuff is done already, just need the thread up. I think it would add a lot of value to the thread as a whole if player profiles followed the same format(color code etc)

IeTHKcU.jpg

Gunnar ''Il Bisonte" Nordahl
Position:
Striker
Height: 1.80m (5’11”)
Weight: 92 kg (209 lbs.)
Achievements: 9x Top scorer of the league
Allsvenskan - 1943, 1945, 1946, 1948
Serie A - 1950, 1951, 1953, 1954 1955
Olympic Gold & Top scorer 1948
Swedish Footballer of the year 1947
Serie A - 1950-51, 1954-55
Latin Cup - 1950-51, 1955-56
Record holder as Serie A Top scorer (x5)

Career Statistics
Team--------Matches-------Goals-------
Club------------504-----------422--------
Sweden--------33------------43---------


Peak Statistics - 1947-51
Team--------Matches-------Goals-------Goals per game
Club------------121-----------109-------- 0.90
Sweden--------16------------28----------1.75
Total-----------137-----------137---------1.00


In his peak between 47-51(26-31 yo) Nordahl was maybe the greatest player in football, arguably the player of the year in '48 with the Olympics gold win as the top scorer, after just having won the Swedish league as the top scorer.

Just to move to Milan and score 16 goals in 15 league games to set the bar for his legendary Milan career.

49-50 - Again, the top scorer in Serie A with his 35 goals in 37 matches. Which had some of the best players in the world. One of the best players in the world as an individual but they failed to win anything as it was the first season for Grenoli to gel together with Milan.

In 50-51 he was also the stand out player of the year with Liedholm/Gren as he for the second consecutive time was the top scorer in Serie A with 34 goals in 37 matches and Milan won the league as well as the Latin Cup, the forerunner to the European Cup, in a historically domininant fashion.

After a 4-1 win against the Spanish champions they faced the French in the final where Nordahl with a hat-trick showed his brilliance, in what would be a 5-0 win to Milan. Certainly deserving of the Ballon with Liedholm had it existed that year.

Style of play

Record holder as the top scorer in Serie A after being the top scorer 5 times in just 6 seasons, which should be impossible as he went to Milan aged 27.

Technically limited but he epitomized the role of a poacher with some of the best natural goalscoring instincts football has ever seen. Accustomed of working against a packed defense, heavily outnumbered, yet he always read the balls trajectory and managed to be at the end of it whether it took a bounce on a defender or his teammate along the way.

He combined that predatory instinct with being able to finish with his first touch with both feet with equal ease. Half chances wasn't part of his vocabulary as he was a true master of scoring ugly goals. He struck half volleys, tap ins, volleys and off balance shots with pin point precision and if a ball wasn't perfectly cleared he had a knack for getting a toe on it and turning it to a goal.

What he lacked technically he made up for with an electric acceleration and good pace which he used to constantly beat the defenders and break free towards goal. Rarely dropping deep or standing still and instead almost solely focused on being a nuisance centrally.

Weighing in at 92 kg, his physical game earned him the nickname "Il Bisonte". Once in a game against Napoli the defender grabbed his jersey, but Nordahl dragged him along for nearly two dozen feet and scored a goal.
506025349.jpg

Inside the area he was a one man army battering ram and dominated the aerial duels and bullied the most fierce defenders with his strength. He didn't play ugly or foul but he made sure to enter every challenge at full intensity with all 92 kg of his body. Often knocking down the defenders to the ground as he won the 50-50 duels.

But he wasn't just a six-yard box poacher, he also packed a powerful shot for just outside the box that would punch a hole in the air as it rippled the net. He also had an understanding with Gren and Liedholm that surpassed their individual abilities.

With "Il Bisonte" inside the area and Gren and Liedholm making runs in to it the opponents defenders were often left short. Which meant he also played a major part in the 36 goals that Liedholm and Gren scored in one season in 49-50. Either from bullying his defenders with his strengths to set up a storming Gren/Liedholm.

Or from occupying several defenders on his own to create space for Liedholm and Gren. He was also more than capable of linking up with the two or lead the attack through carrying the ball forward at full speed.

Defensively as the team lost the ball his job under Raynor in particular was to press the defender in to making a long pass. Something far from the later tactical pressing and more like individual pressing from the wingers and forward.

Information

During this International break, I thought it might be interesting to take a look back at a Milan legend who gave up his right to represent his country in order to sign with Milan. If you’ve ever heard of the epic Gre-No-Li trio, he was the “No” in the Gre-No-Li. He is also the only player still to have won the capoconnoniere (top scorer) title five times in Serie A. So many goals, so many records, from such humble beginnings. Like other legendary players and coaches, Gunnar Nordahl is permanently etched into Milan history. In fact, he is known in Serie A as “Il Cannoniere,” or the gunner.


20121020-014031.jpg

A giant of a man, a legend of a player


His national team career may have been cut short by ridiculous laws, but his statue in Sweden shows his value even today

It was at this point that Milan came calling for the robust 1.81m (5’11”) and 92 kg (209 lbs.) scoring machine. His size made him as feared as his skills, he was a danger in the air, was brilliant at scoring on the volley, as well as tap-ins and easy goals. But due to his size, he would become known as il Bisonte (the bison) in Italy. However, first he had to navigate Swedish laws, which may have been trickier than the toughest defense to unlock and allow him to play in Italy. Additionally, he would have to give up his chance to represent the Swedish national team anymore. This after 43 goals in 33 caps for Sweden. That includes helping lead Sweden to victory in the 1948 Olympics alongside two of his brothers, where he was also awarded the title of top scorer for that tournament.

Italy was different. Milan offered him a luxuriously furnished apartment in the heart of Milan, but instead he chose a simple, modest one on the outskirts of the city. When his teammates showed up for his first function in the most stylish suits of the day with luxury watches and nice shoes, he showed up in an inexpensive shirt and trousers. He was concerned about being able to fit into that world, but on the pitch it was no problem at all.


The legendary Swedish Milan trio: Gre-No-Li

In his first 15 games with Milan, he scored 16 goals, which led Milan to renegotiate and give him a better contract after only six months. Additionally, upon his recommendation, they would sign Swedish teammates Gunnar Gren and Niels Liedholm, who also forfeited their chance to represent Sweden anymore in order to help Milan win two Scudetti, in 1951 and 1955. Nordahl was capocannoniere in 1950, 1951, 1953, 1954, and 1955. He still holds the record for the most Serie A goals scored post-war, with 35 goals in the 1949-50 season.

After his time at Milan, he went to Roma, where he played for two years and then stayed on for another year as a player-manager. Counting the goals he scored at Roma, he is the third highest all-time Serie A scorer, behind Silvio Piola and Francesco Totti, the latter of whom just passed him in 2012. Nordahl’s 210 goals scored in just seven years in Serie A has left his mark indelibly on Italy, and he is also AC Milan’s all time highest scorer, with 221 total goals for the club. But perhaps his most impressive feat is his scoring proficiency record, which he also holds for Serie A. Amazingly, he scored .77 goals per match. To put that in perspective, Piola’s scoring percentage is only .51. They just don’t make them like that anymore.


il Cannoniere

He went on to manage a number of clubs in Sweden, including IFK for two different spells. Sadly, he passed away in 1995 at the age of 73. But his legend in Sweden lives on, as IFK just recently named their supporters’ stands after him: the Curva Nordahl. The name blends his Italian legacy (“Curva Nord” is the north curve) and his Swedish and IFK legacies to honor a man who not only left his mark on Swedish and Italian football, but also paved the way for future Swedish players to be able to play in abroad today. Without Nordahl, there would be no Ibra. So let’s tip our hats to a true Milan legend and a great man, il Cannoniere.

Footage
Sources
 
Not really sure on the scope. I thought this was to be a collection of efforts done by managers previously (and maybe a step further) so that the profiling effort doesn't get lost after the match.

I'm working on Maslov next and that's not in there. What to do?

I listed players/teams that largely have been done before. It's just a matter of whoever did them locating the material and tidying ir up a bit.

Stick Maslov and related players where you think they belong, preferably as a set.

We'll just add him to the list, of course, shouldn't be an issue. Maslov would be a good managerial starting point to discuss USSR team of late 50's to late 60's, despite him managing clubs and not the NT.

He managed Streltsov, Voronin and Ivanov at Torpedo, then a bunch of greats at Kyiv.

I'd say that just a few of USSR from that era greats needs to be mentioned/profiled - Yashin, Streltsov, Voronin, Netto, Ivanov (a must), Shesternyov, maybe Chislenko; plus I'd think about few others.

Precisely, just add them so you/somebody signs up.

I can do something on Chapman and that Bank of England Arsenal side with Cliff Bastin and Alex James as I have a few books on Arsenal history. Can't promise a deadline but I can get started this weekend

Excellent. No worries on time. We can stick them after Uruguay 24-30 which played 2-3-5 but before 34 WC, ample time.

I'll do some of the Yugoslav players of Cajkovski era when I have some spare time, also the great Steua side from the 80's which deserve a mention.

Also Some Bulgarian greats like Asparuhov, Zhekov, Dermendzhiev, Bonev and so forth.

Not sure if the the Gladbach side in the 70's was mentioned so far as a separate topic? We use to pick some of the stars from there but not fully profiled it unless @Balu or someone else has done before and I've missed it?

I'm pretty sure Gladbach had a thread a while back. Again, list the players you will do with a year or tourno next to them. With the Russians above I would think 1960 is roughly the year for the set as that's when they start coming to the fore.