Next Draft - Ideas and Discussions

Annahnomoss said:
Yup. The same should apply to the general draft thread too where people usually post their line up before they play the game to get all the critique they can to address it before the match.

Half the fun is the tactical battle between the two managers, which is completely gone when people already asks for opinions on their team in the draft threads.
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I've been thinking about this too.

And I agree. Posting actual line-ups for feedback should be outlawed. We've seen several examples of people getting it all wrong, having it corrected in the main thread, and then going with the corrected line-up when the match comes around.

Less fun. If you really screw up, you can take the feedback in the match thread - and then make the necessary changes, paying your dues, but still be able to make a comeback. Plus, half the fun is to see the team on the pitch, as it were - if we've already seen it paraded in the main thread, then there's no element of surprise.

I think it's fine to ask questions about individual players: Would he work like so, can he play as such, and so forth - because that tends to liven up the main threads. But getting feedback on your actual match tactics - no.
 
Agree in principle, but the flip side is that this takes away so much of discussions too.


sajeev said:
how far back does this list go? I am sure I was an AM to Walrus or someone like that in an U23 draft some time in 2011 and there was also a draft of current players born before C.Ronaldo and after Messi
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As far as I can trace a draft thread. If you have a link of anything other, let me know and I can add it in.
The first one may be the bon after ronny/messi you are referring to. Click on the link...
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Agree in principle, but the flip side is that this takes away so much of discussions too.
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suggestions after the game and commenting other people lineups doesnt get much attention so i dont think it takes away so much.......the most discussions in the main thread is about picked players and that should stay that way :)
 
Annahnomoss said:
Yup. The same should apply to the general draft thread too where people usually post their line up before they play the game to get all the critique they can to address it before the match.

Half the fun is the tactical battle between the two managers, which is completely gone when people already asks for opinions on their team in the draft threads.
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Agreed. Designing things by committee gets boring fast.
 
Added in...

List of Drafts:

Draft I: Cal?'s - New Fantasy Draft (Winner: Cal?)
Draft II: Polaroid's - Retro Fantasy Draft - all players born in 60s (Winner: Polaroid)
Draft III: Cal?'s - 70s Fantasy Draft (Winner: Cling Bak)
Draft IV: Brwned's - 50s Fantasy Draft (Winner: Brwned)
Draft V: Premier League 20 Season Draft (Winner: Gio)
Draft VI: All -Time Fantasy Draft (Winner: antohan)
Draft VII: Theon's - Champions League Draft (Winner: Gio)
Draft VIII: Aldo's - Decades Draft (Winner: Theon)
Draft IX: Future Stars Draft (Winner: NM)
Draft X: World Cup Peak Draft (Winner: Annahnomoss)
Draft XI: Aldo's - Sheep Draft (Winner Gio)
Draft XII: Polaroid's - Transfer Muppet Draft (Winner: MJJ)
Draft XIII: Annahnomoss's - Auction Draft (Winner: Cutch/Annah)
Draft XIV: rpitroda's - Criteria Draft (Winner: Aldo)
Draft XV: EAP's - Reality Draft (Winner: antohan)
Draft XVI: Annahnomoss's - Managers Draft (Winner: EAP)
Draft XVII: crappycraperson's - British Irish Draft (Winner: MJJ)
Draft XVIII: EAP's - Modern Era Draft (Winner: Theon)
Draft XIX: Skizzo's - Second Sheep Draft (Winner: Cutch)
Draft XX: Balu's - Euro Draft (Winner: Joga Bonito)
Draft XXI: Annahnomoss's - All Time Auction Draft (Winner: Cal?)
Draft XXII: Skizzo's All Time Premier League Draft (Winner: TBC)
 
Šjor Bepo said:
just a thought, think we should stop with suggestions for reinforcements after someone wins his game. In most cases the manager will strengthen his side in proper areas but there is always chance for a feck up(cal the best and latest example with Carlos in the last draft) so to up the odds for something like that i think we should stop it :)
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Annahnomoss said:
Yup. The same should apply to the general draft thread too where people usually post their line up before they play the game to get all the critique they can to address it before the match.

Half the fun is the tactical battle between the two managers, which is completely gone when people already asks for opinions on their team in the draft threads.
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Agreed.
 
Introducing a new voting system, with scorelines implemented in some form or other, has been discussed many times before – and has been brought up again recently in connection with the on-going PL draft.

There have been several concrete suggestions made in the past, some of which could be re-introduced here – and new ones may be discussed too.

The main thing to keep in mind, as I see it, is that the model has to be fairly simple: If it gets too complicated, people will lose interest. It also has to be a model which allows for the draft master (or his assistant) to calculate the score with reasonable ease.

Just to kick it off, here's a fairly simple idea:

No actual scoreline alternatives. Rather, the voter rates each team on a scale from X-X (could be 1-3, could be 1-5, etc.):

Team X = 1: 4 votes
Team X = 2: 2 votes
Team X = 3: 5 votes

Team Y = 1: 1 vote
Team Y = 2: 7 votes
Team Y = 3: 3 votes

(Six alternatives to vote for. Voters will be instructed to vote twice, once for each team. The idea being, of course, to illustrate how the voter regards the relative strength of the two teams).

Team X: 23 points
Team Y: 24 points
 
green_smiley said:
All you need is a draft mod who is not lazy to count
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Hehe, yeah - there IS that.

The main argument for a non-scoreline based (in terms of voting alternatives) model is this:

If you offer, say, these alternatives:

1-0
2-1
0-0
0-1
1-2

[Just an example for illustration purposes]

...the danger is that the "0-0" in practice becomes a "cop-out" option which will receive an unnatural, disproportionate amount of votes.

The above is just one of the problems we need to address before going ahead with anything like this.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Hehe, yeah - there IS that.

The main argument for a non-scoreline based (in terms of voting alternatives) model is this:

If you offer, say, these alternatives:

1-0
2-1
0-0
0-1
1-2

[Just an example for illustration purposes]

...the danger is that the "0-0" in practice becomes a "cop-out" option which will receive an unnatural, disproportionate amount of votes.

The above is just one of the problems we need to address before going ahead with anything like this.
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Remove 0-0 and the cop-out option is not voting at all.

I like the draw option, many games look like stonewall draws and, if they are, they should go to penos. Simple. I wouldn't worry about having too many games going to penos, the excitement will wear off quickly and voters may start not "copping out" just to skip them and move on.

Also, by providing the cop-out (even if a momentary one), you give managers an indication of how many votes there are in a game, which is a great call for action (e.g. subs, suicidal tactics, etc.).

The only very real problem I see with all these non-binary options is the tallying up and the total confusion that could result from a few people doing it wrongly.
 
antohan said:
The only very real problem I see with all these non-binary options is the tallying up and the total confusion that could result from a few people doing it wrongly.
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I don't think that would be a genuine problem. The calculation has to be a simple one to begin with (i.e. no complex models and no nonsense with manager votes being counted differently and the like) and if the person in charge miscalculates, this will no doubt be discovered quickly. Alternatively, we could make a small draft committee obligatory, if for no other reason than to make sure the calculations are done properly.

That said, I wouldn't mind a binary option either. Anything in this vein is worth trying, IMO - the current format needs some spicing up, one way or the other.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I don't think that would be a genuine problem. The calculation has to be a simple one to begin with (i.e. no complex models and no nonsense with manager votes being counted differently and the like) and if the person in charge miscalculates, this will no doubt be discovered quickly. Alternatively, we could make a small draft committee obligatory, if for no other reason than to make sure the calculations are done properly.

That said, I wouldn't mind a binary option either. Anything in this vein is worth trying, IMO - the current format needs some spicing up, one way or the other.
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You tell me... You led me to spennd the last couple of days scheming bamboozling content. My wicked wango card is AWESOME.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Introducing a new voting system, with scorelines implemented in some form or other, has been discussed many times before – and has been brought up again recently in connection with the on-going PL draft.

There have been several concrete suggestions made in the past, some of which could be re-introduced here – and new ones may be discussed too.

The main thing to keep in mind, as I see it, is that the model has to be fairly simple: If it gets too complicated, people will lose interest. It also has to be a model which allows for the draft master (or his assistant) to calculate the score with reasonable ease.

Just to kick it off, here's a fairly simple idea:

No actual scoreline alternatives. Rather, the voter rates each team on a scale from X-X (could be 1-3, could be 1-5, etc.):

Team X = 1: 4 votes
Team X = 2: 2 votes
Team X = 3: 5 votes

Team Y = 1: 1 vote
Team Y = 2: 7 votes
Team Y = 3: 3 votes

(Six alternatives to vote for. Voters will be instructed to vote twice, once for each team. The idea being, of course, to illustrate how the voter regards the relative strength of the two teams).

Team X: 23 points
Team Y: 24 points
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That's quite elegant although I'd add a zero option for both sides so voters know they have to vote twice one for each side. It would also reduce the possibility of a poster voting twice for the same team to say score 2+3 (5) in the above option. Also we could then construct average scores. If ended 1.7 to 1.8 we could interpret it as a 2-2 draw but over a ten game match up the latter team would win on aggregate.

That said Anto's draw option as a way to make managers make changes is interesting. If we plugged that as a method of registering for managers to make a change then it could make some nice dynamics. To reduce the option list we could add a make a change or it'll end in a draw option or something more pithy. Obviously it could confuse voters.

I reckon we should be able to vote for a team to score maximum of 4 goals. 5 is too much and would swing the results hugely but I think scoring 4 is reasonable. In the Kazi and Crappy/MJJ match I reckoned it would finish 4-2. That said a maximum of 3 might be good for a trial.
 
Guess we can give the scoreline bit a go in the next one to see how it goes. Though the only change I'd go for is not having any draw option, have all the scorelines you want in favour of a win, draw as we have seen before, is a bit of a dull option, despite the argument for it being a realistic outcome. Plus, these are knockout games, you need to pick a winner.

I tried to see how many options could be added to a poll at the request of PhysioC and I could go up to 25, which should be more than enough.
 
It might have been done before but I just had an idea for a deceptively simple draft while I was working on my team in the current one.
An all time, all nations draft with only one rule: No two players in your squad can have played for the same nation or for the same club.
 
diarm said:
It might have been done before but I just had an idea for a deceptively simple draft while I was working on my team in the current one.
An all time, all nations draft with only one rule: No two players in your squad can have played for the same nation or for the same club.
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I think it has popped up earlier when we were brainstorming.. yeah it can be done I think.

Do you mean at the same time or otherwise? So if I pick Giggs - no other player from the history of United or Wales NT?
 
Aldo said:
I think it has popped up earlier when we were brainstorming.. yeah it can be done I think.

Do you mean at the same time or otherwise? So if I pick Giggs - no other player from the history of United or Wales NT?
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pick Ronaldo and there you go, no more players from Brazil, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter and Milan :lol:
 
Sounds awesome.
diarm said:
It might have been done before but I just had an idea for a deceptively simple draft while I was working on my team in the current one.
An all time, all nations draft with only one rule: No two players in your squad can have played for the same nation or for the same club.
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harms said:
pick Ronaldo and there you go, no more players from Brazil, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter and Milan :lol:
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Yeah we'll possibly see a lot of left field picks from yesteryears of top players who didn't play in mainstream clubs so the likes of Honved and such. Could be a nice draft idea really.
 
Aldo said:
I think it has popped up earlier when we were brainstorming.. yeah it can be done I think.

Do you mean at the same time or otherwise? So if I pick Giggs - no other player from the history of United or Wales NT?
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Yeah that was my thinking. You would really need to think about your picks and it would throw up some names that maybe aren't seen all that often in drafts.
 
Hm - yes. 16 teams of 12 players. That's just south of 200 players. That restriction could actually make it pretty interesting.

It's not easy to draft a star studded XI of eligible players if no more than two can have featured (at any point) for the same team OR the same nation - when fifteen other managers are trying to do the same thing.
 
Far trickier than I thought, actually - as I see now that you can only field ONE player per club (or nation).

It's a good idea, no doubt. But the amount of ineligible picks people would make through poor research (or sleep deprivation, or general daftness) would probably be staggering.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Far trickier than I thought, actually - as I see now that you can only field ONE player per club (or nation).

It's a good idea, no doubt. But the amount of ineligible picks people would make through poor research (or sleep deprivation, or general daftness) would probably be staggering.
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make it a sheep draft then :devil:
 
Just wanted to write here. Just got promoted but before I even signed up here I've been lurking on your drafts (The sheep draft is what got my really hooked). If anyone would like an AM/helper/slave for the next draft (as long as it is not between 12-26 of August since I plan to lie on the beach in Spain then) I would love to participate to learn and hopefully join fully myself some time in the future.
 
Over the last few pages there have been a number of disparate ideas thrown around that perhaps don't have the gravitas to hold a draft on their own but would be a solid part of a tricky sheep draft.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Intriguing! Is it even possible to build such a team, far less 16 of them? Lots of odd country-one club players, maybe.
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I put together quite a good side yesterday. Was bloody tough though.
Will I put it up here or hold off in case we ever do it?
 
Heine said:
Just wanted to write here. Just got promoted but before I even signed up here I've been lurking on your drafts (The sheep draft is what got my really hooked). If anyone would like an AM/helper/slave for the next draft (as long as it is not between 12-26 of August since I plan to lie on the beach in Spain then) I would love to participate to learn and hopefully join fully myself some time in the future.
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Which sheep draft? :)

Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Yeah, I think it's time for a Sheep draft again. Random and evil fun.

I can run it this time. Who's up to play?
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I'm in. There's gonna be a few months where I won't be able to participate in any, so I'm getting my fix now :D
 
Skizzo said:
Which sheep draft? :)
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Yours ;-)

In general I'm impressed by the knowledge you guys have about (for me) random football players, and that draft was both great in that department but also in laughing at guys getting sheeps
 
Heine said:
Yours ;-)

In general I'm impressed by the knowledge you guys have about (for me) random football players, and that draft was both great in that department but also in laughing at guys getting sheeps
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It was a bit more sinister than the previous one :p

Honestly, the more you play, the more you learn. My first draft I researched and found out about Peyroteo. Never heard of him before I started digging deep into some sites. Every draft I try and find some new players to research, and some posters are really great at posting about players from specific eras or countries that I know little about. Definitely learned more from them than my own research, because sometimes I do find myself drifting back towards "familiar territory"
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
No idea, mate. After this if no one else has anything on. I still have to think of something new. Maybe add nationality/club restrictions or something to give it a change to previous ones.
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Im sure @antohan will have plenty of ideas to help out.

I need to get in on a sheep draft at some point though. I always miss the fun. Well, the picking fun...plenty of fun was had on the sheep committee
 
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