NBA 2018-2019

Denver have gone to shit completely. From one of the best teams in the league to one of the worst over the last 3-4 games.

Shocking win for Cleveland over Charlotte. Kemba shot 2-16 which probably played a major part, a complete day off for him after some stunning performances to start the season.
 
'He [Green] reminded Durant the Warriors were winning before Durant showed up so he wouldn’t stand for Durant talking to him as if he were a scrub. Green accused Durant of making the whole season about him even though he was going to leave after this season."

Would love to see an implosion. Unfortunately I assume they'll work it out.
 
'He [Green] reminded Durant the Warriors were winning before Durant showed up so he wouldn’t stand for Durant talking to him as if he were a scrub. Green accused Durant of making the whole season about him even though he was going to leave after this season."

Would love to see an implosion. Unfortunately I assume they'll work it out.

This season they will and probably will win a title. I think Durant leaves in the offseason though and goes somewhere to build his own team, probably New York.

The league is going to be proper awesome if that happens. Some teams will probably make major moves as they will feel their chance and there will be genuinely 7-8 contenders. A bit like the East this year where you have 4 good teams who can realistically win the conference and it’s proper fun.
 
Feck, looked good in the first half but it all fell apart at the end of second quarter and not been decent ever since. It doesn’t help LeBron is hitting everything and shooting like Curry from three.
 
Rondo broke his hand, and will be out a few weeks. Sucks.
 
Jazz with 68 points and a 50 point loss. mental.

Not that they weren’t absolutely woeful before but they lost the fourth quarter 34-9 while playing with second and third stringers (they were 84-59 down before that anyway).
 
Is it actually possible that Warriors trade Draymond?
 
Depends on Durant's plan I guess . I think that KD leaves at the end of this season and Draymond stays on.
I thought KD would stay just to play in the new Chase Center but also because he'd be leaving about 60 million on the table if he leaves since the Dubs would have his full Bird rights next summer and could offer him the full five year super max. If he does move on I can see the Dubs going all out for Anthony Davis since I think there will be cap space available. KD's salary will be off the books, Klay (I believe) will sign for a discounted rate and Andre Iguodala will also probably be moved on possibly as part of a trade for Davis.
 
I thought KD would stay just to play in the new Chase Center but also because he'd be leaving about 60 million on the table if he leaves since the Dubs would have his full Bird rights next summer and could offer him the full five year super max. If he does move on I can see the Dubs going all out for Anthony Davis since I think there will be cap space available. KD's salary will be off the books, Klay (I believe) will sign for a discounted rate and Andre Iguodala will also probably be moved on possibly as part of a trade for Davis.

As a trade? Or FA signing? I assume you mean trade since you mentioned the Iguodala bit. Surely that is unlikely to happen as someone (Boston as one example) could offer a more competitive package. What value is an aging Iguodala to the Pelicans? Or any of the other players on the Warriors thin bench?
 
As a trade? Or FA signing? I assume you mean trade since you mentioned the Iguodala bit. Surely that is unlikely to happen as someone (Boston as one example) could offer a more competitive package. What value is an aging Iguodala to the Pelicans? Or any of the other players on the Warriors thin bench?
I think they may have to offer Draymond and some picks as well. Steph, Klay + AD is an upgraded version of the pre-KD team. I can see that having possibilities. Draymond is looking for a max deal. I don't believe he will get that from the Warriors.
 
Don't think Draymond should have played tonight he is obviously not 100%. Not sure he really had a choice though because if he had pulled out the media would have assumed he was just being difficult because of the situation with KD. As far as the game itself was concerned though the Dubs as a whole were poor. If the last 4 games don't illustrate the difference Stephen Curry makes to this team then nothing will. With Steph they average 122.5/game without him they average 107/game and that includes an overtime. Tonight they made 4 threes in total with KD and Klay going 0-7 between them.

There is a valid argument as to who is better between Steph and KD but when it comes to who makes his team mates better it's not even close. It's now 51-12 with Steph on the court over the last two seasons and 19-16 without him.
 
I think they may have to offer Draymond and some picks as well. Steph, Klay + AD is an upgraded version of the pre-KD team. I can see that having possibilities. Draymond is looking for a max deal. I don't believe he will get that from the Warriors.

You honestly believe there’s even 1% chance you could have Anthony Davis for Draymond (with a year left on his deal as well), Iguodala and a few picks? Why should everybody in the league just bend over and give everything to Warriors for nothing? Why not offer them Livingston and a second round pick while you are at it, if you want to insult them with an offer you may as well do that.

Celtics or Lakers would beat that offer in a second. To be fair 10 other teams would too.
 
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I thought KD would stay just to play in the new Chase Center but also because he'd be leaving about 60 million on the table if he leaves since the Dubs would have his full Bird rights next summer and could offer him the full five year super max. If he does move on I can see the Dubs going all out for Anthony Davis since I think there will be cap space available. KD's salary will be off the books, Klay (I believe) will sign for a discounted rate and Andre Iguodala will also probably be moved on possibly as part of a trade for Davis.

Klay will not sign for a discounted rate, he has to get paid finally.

And Durant would only really be leaving fifth year on the table. That is the difference between the contract Warriors would offer and what he could get elsewhere. For the first 4 years the difference is just $10million or so, not very material. If he thinks he can preserve his body like LeBron and still be great at 34 then it doesn’t really matter because he will get a big deal then again.
 
Celtics don't need AD, they're getting Zion with the Sacramento pick :smirk:

But really, AD to the Celtics would be awesome.
 
Celtics don't need AD, they're getting Zion with the Sacramento pick :smirk:

But really, AD to the Celtics would be awesome.

Will be lucky if Sacramento pick is top 5 let alone no. 1. :)

I think Davis to Celtics happens within the next year. Ainge is obsessed with him, the only issue is he usually tries to lowball teams and Pelicans won't take a second rate offer when they know they can have some of Brown, Smart, Rozier and all the picks Celtics own (Tatum will be off the table).

I can see something like Hayward, Brown, Rozier, Sacramento pick and Memphis pick being an offer. Lakers will probably try to compete with that with Ingram, one of Kuzma and Hart, salary filler and picks. Celtics offer, if it is that, will be more enticing though as if you are starting a reboot you want young players (Brown, Rozier) as well as picks to have a good start. Hayward would be a salary filler but a valuable one - they could also add Smart instead. Celtics would then roll with Tatum, Irving and Davis as their core. Knowing Ainge though he will probably try to not include Brown. :lol:

Sixers were on the list of teams Davis would consider but they don't have a way to make an offer, an Embiid/Davis frontcourt would be unplayable though. Clippers would be my outside bet but would find it incredibly tough to make a compelling offer and would probably need to wait until 2020 free agency.

Green + Iguodala would not even get you McCollum.
 
Will be lucky if Sacramento pick is top 5 let alone no. 1. :)

I think Davis to Celtics happens within the next year. Ainge is obsessed with him, the only issue is he usually tries to lowball teams and Pelicans won't take a second rate offer when they know they can have some of Brown, Smart, Rozier and all the picks Celtics own (Tatum will be off the table).

I can see something like Hayward, Brown, Rozier, Sacramento pick and Memphis pick being an offer. Lakers will probably try to compete with that with Ingram, one of Kuzma and Hart, salary filler and picks. Celtics offer, if it is that, will be more enticing though as if you are starting a reboot you want young players (Brown, Rozier) as well as picks to have a good start. Hayward would be a salary filler but a valuable one - they could also add Smart instead. Celtics would then roll with Tatum, Irving and Davis as their core. Knowing Ainge though he will probably try to not include Brown. :lol:

Sixers were on the list of teams Davis would consider but they don't have a way to make an offer, an Embiid/Davis frontcourt would be unplayable though. Clippers would be my outside bet but would find it incredibly tough to make a compelling offer and would probably need to wait until 2020 free agency.

Green + Iguodala would not even get you McCollum.

It would be very unlucky for the Celtics if Sacramento got the 1st, tbh.

To give up Hayward and Brown for AD would be the right thing to do. Add Rozier, who's unhappy anyway. The Sacramento pick? Be my guest, we won't get Zion, so I don't care.
 
Green isn't a valuable trade asset IMO. In his current version he is...but how long will it sustain? When he starts slowing down defensively he becomes a bit of a liability. His offense has already regressed with respect to shooting and finishing around the rim.
 
It would be very unlucky for the Celtics if Sacramento got the 1st, tbh.

To give up Hayward and Brown for AD would be the right thing to do. Add Rozier, who's unhappy anyway. The Sacramento pick? Be my guest, we won't get Zion, so I don't care.

Ah actually the pick is top 1 protected indeed.

I agree. Brown, Rozier and Hayward + pick is a fair enough deal but I'm pretty sure Ainge will try to be cheap again. Then again he offered several picks to move up in the draft and get Winslow in 2015 so he can pay a big price too.
 
Green isn't a valuable trade asset IMO. In his current version he is...but how long will it sustain? When he starts slowing down defensively he becomes a bit of a liability. His offense has already regressed with respect to shooting and finishing around the rim.

You can't have him as your number one or number two. If you trade Davis you are trading him for someone who can be number one from day one or someone who can become that in the future.

Green is IMO a good number three and a glue guy. No way you build around him. Put him in a functioning team like Portland, Indiana or Utah and he makes them better instantly but as a replacement for Davis he's horrible fit.
 
The only offer I can see Palicans accepting for Davis, is if Dubs put in the package both Klay and Green, which ain't happening.

However, based on what Durant does and how Cousing recovers, Green might be expandable. If KD signs the contract and Cousins gets back on track and signs a contract, Warriors can afford to lose Green. To be fair, even if KD leaves, Dubs should probably look to upgrade Green. His offense has gone to shit, and not sure that Steph + Klay are enough in attack.
 
You honestly believe there’s even 1% chance you could have Anthony Davis for Draymond (with a year left on his deal as well), Iguodala and a few picks? Why should everybody in the league just bend over and give everything to Warriors for nothing? Why not offer them Livingston and a second round pick while you are at it, if you want to insult them with an offer you may as well do that.

Celtics or Lakers would beat that offer in a second. To be fair 10 other teams would too.
All things being equal I don't think the Dubs could get Davis for Draymond, Iggy and a few picks but things are never equal in trades in the NBA. The Timberwolves supposedly got offered 4 fist rounders for Jimmy Butler from Houston but ended up taking Covington and Saric. The Spurs got another all star for Kawhi but he wasn't really classed as a top 25 player. Indiana got Oladipo and Sabonis for Paul George and I think that has turned out very well for them but at the time people were talking about them getting a bad deal. The bottom line is where does Anthony Davis want to go if he leaves and would he re-sign with that team? The Pelicans would obviously not want to trade him at all but very often you don't get the best deal if you are in a position of weakness and if New Orleans want to get something then he will be on the block this summer with one year left on his contract. Anybody that signs him will then be in the position of hoping that he will stay when his contract runs down the following summer. Sure there are many teams that could offer a better deal than the Dubs but as things stand Draymond is still considered by most people a bona fide top 20 player and these days to get one top 20 player for another is not terrible business especially when that player has already got his rings and is just looking for a pay day. If New Orleans offer Draymond a max deal or close to it he is almost certainly signing it. As to AD, as I've already mentioned, whoever signs him would be hoping that he would be signing a future long term deal with them so there is risk there too. I don't think the Dubs are favorites by any means but I do think because of Steph and Klay they are an attractive proposition for a player who is looking to win.
Green + Iguodala would not even get you McCollum.
Please! :rolleyes:
You can't have him as your number one or number two. If you trade Davis you are trading him for someone who can be number one from day one or someone who can become that in the future
In an ideal world this is true. But NBA trades never happen in an ideal world. The Pels are in a position of weakness because they won't want to trade and AD only has a year left on his contract. Somebody, somewhere is going to get a deal.
Klay will not sign for a discounted rate, he has to get paid finally.
Klay is probably going to be eligible for a 5 year deal for around 190 million. The best another team can offer him is around 140 million over 4 years. The incentive for him to stay with the Dubs is (a) because he likes being there and (b) because they are successful. In order to keep winning if KD leaves they've got to reload somehow and to do that they're going to need another top player. I expect Klay to re-sign for somewhere in the 165-170 million range over 5 years to try and make that happen.
 
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The only offer I can see Palicans accepting for Davis, is if Dubs put in the package both Klay and Green, which ain't happening.

However, based on what Durant does and how Cousing recovers, Green might be expandable. If KD signs the contract and Cousins gets back on track and signs a contract, Warriors can afford to lose Green. To be fair, even if KD leaves, Dubs should probably look to upgrade Green. His offense has gone to shit, and not sure that Steph + Klay are enough in attack.
Draymond has been injured for most of this season. He hardly played in the preseason and has been struggling with a toe injury for the last two or three weeks. In the first 10 games of this season before the injury he shot close to 50% from the field and even though his three point shooting has been a little off this year he is a better career three point shooter than Russell Westbrook and is only 3-4 percentage points worse than James Harden. The bottom line is Draymond generally doesn't shoot much because he has three of the greatest scorers in the NBA on his team. However when he does shoot he is pretty decent at it. On a team where he was required to score I can easily see him putting up 17-18 points/game since he is already averaging about 12 points/game over the last 4 years with the Dubs.
 
All things being equal I don't think the Dubs could get Davis for Draymond, Iggy and a few picks but things are never equal in trades in the NBA. The Timberwolves supposedly got offered 4 fist rounders for Jimmy Butler from Houston but ended up taking Covington and Saric. The Spurs got another all star for Kawhi but he wasn't really classed as a top 25 player. Indiana got Oladipo and Sabonis for Paul George and I think that has turned out very well for them but at the time people were talking about them getting a bad deal. The bottom line is where does Anthony Davis want to go if he leaves and would he re-sign with that team? The Pelicans would obviously not want to trade him at all but very often you don't get the best deal if you are in a position of weakness and if New Orleans want to get something then he will be on the block this summer with one year left on his contract. Anybody that signs him will then be in the position of hoping that he will stay when his contract runs down the following summer. Sure there are many teams that could offer a better deal than the Dubs but as things stand Draymond is still considered by most people a bona fide top 20 player and these days to get one top 20 player for another is not terrible business especially when that player has already got his rings and is just looking for a pay day. If New Orleans offer Draymond a max deal or close to it he is almost certainly signing it. As to AD, as I've already mentioned, whoever signs him would be hoping that he would be signing a future long term deal with them so there is risk there too. I don't think the Dubs are favorites by any means but I do think because of Steph and Klay they are an attractive proposition for a player who is looking to win.

Timberwolves had a disgruntled star who was a poison in a dressing room of a team that could maybe otherwise have a hope, if you believe Towns can sort it out and are naive enough to believe that so could Wiggins. They are probably a borderline playoffs team without Butler. Pelicans without Davis are a 20-25 win team, there's just no talent there and you will have Payton and Randle leaving next year as well as both have player options. You will be left with overpaid Jrue Holiday and a bunch of bad players. That's not a position in which you decide to dump your best asset, possibly a top 5 player in the league and probably the best big man in NBA for basically nothing. Because that's what an offer you are proposing is, it's nothing. Draymond is expiring, disgruntled and with his skill set he's not someone you try to build around. Even if you offer him a max he doesn't have to stay, there will be other teams offering a max too because in 2020 everybody will have cap space - it's a year in which almost all the bad deals from 2016 expire. Iguodala is 33 and probably has negative value with that contract. Picks of a team that has Curry, Thompson, Davis and could even retain Durant are basically worthless, it's a 30th pick year in year out for the next 4-5 seasons (or more because Davis is still very young). You are better off keeping Davis for the last year and allowing him to walk for nothing, honestly.

I don't think CJ's value is much lower than Draymond's all things considered and I have Iguodala down as a bad contract at this point.

I'm sure Warriors are an attractive proposition for anyone who wants to chase a ring but they have absolutely no way to make that deal unless they offer BOTH Klay and Draymond and even then it makes no sense for Pels to accept that offer because they would want to reboot that franchise if Davis leaves.
 
Draymond has been injured for most of this season. He hardly played in the preseason and has been struggling with a toe injury for the last two or three weeks. In the first 10 games of this season before the injury he shot close to 50% from the field and even though his three point shooting has been a little off this year he is a better career three point shooter than Russell Westbrook and is only 3-4 percentage points worse than James Harden. The bottom line is Draymond generally doesn't shoot much because he has three of the greatest scorers in the NBA on his team. However when he does shoot he is pretty decent at it. On a team where he was required to score I can easily see him putting up 17-18 points/game since he is already averaging about 12 points/game over the last 4 years with the Dubs.
Most of his three point shooting happens when he is totally free. In a team which doesn't have three of the greatest shooters in the history of the game, he won't have many three point free attempts.

Both Westbrook and especially Harden are much better shooters than him. They however don't play with Steph, KD and Klay.
 
Draymond has been injured for most of this season. He hardly played in the preseason and has been struggling with a toe injury for the last two or three weeks. In the first 10 games of this season before the injury he shot close to 50% from the field and even though his three point shooting has been a little off this year he is a better career three point shooter than Russell Westbrook and is only 3-4 percentage points worse than James Harden. The bottom line is Draymond generally doesn't shoot much because he has three of the greatest scorers in the NBA on his team. However when he does shoot he is pretty decent at it. On a team where he was required to score I can easily see him putting up 17-18 points/game since he is already averaging about 12 points/game over the last 4 years with the Dubs.

He's basically a 30-33% shooter from three bar the best regular season ever in the history of any franchise where they all shot like crazy. That's below average although yes, he could score 17 a game if you put him on a terrible team that needs to rely on his scoring. His shooting is suspect because he has always been surrounded by two best shooters in the league and another above average shooter (Barnes/Durant).
 
3-4 points is a lot. Harden is a very good shooter.

Westbrook is a chucker but his shot is also better than Draymond's. He takes so many contested threes from wild spots on the floor that it's hard to take his % seriously.

Lillard is only a career 36.8% shooter and it's hard to argue that his shot isn't good, it most certainly is. Some players just take wild amount of difficult shots because they have to or want to.
 
And while Draymond might be in the tier of players who could claim to be at the end of top 20 (I think there are comfortably 17 players better than him though, and about 15 who could have a claim for being the remaining 3 in top 20), his trade value would not even be a top 50 in the league IMO. There are genuinely at least 50 players I would prefer to receive in Pelicans situation and they could probably get an offer that would include some of them if they wanted.
 
He's basically a 30-33% shooter from three bar the best regular season ever in the history of any franchise where they all shot like crazy. That's below average although yes, he could score 17 a game if you put him on a terrible team that needs to rely on his scoring. His shooting is suspect because he has always been surrounded by two best shooters in the league and another above average shooter (Barnes/Durant).
Basketball is a rhythm game. If you can't get into that rhythm your shot suffers. In 2016 before KD arrived Draymond shot 819 times was 49% from the field and 39% from three to average 14 points/game. Last year he shot 619 times about 25% less than two years previously and his shooting was nowhere near as good. I do think 39% was an aberration but I also think he could probably shoot 35-36% from three if he was given a regular opportunity to keep shooting.

It's patently obvious I value Draymond much higher than you do. I think he sacrifices massively for the team and could be a far better all round player if the circumstances required it.
 
Basketball is a rhythm game. If you can't get into that rhythm your shot suffers. In 2016 before KD arrived Draymond shot 819 times was 49% from the field and 39% from three to average 14 points/game. Last year he shot 619 times about 25% less than two years previously and his shooting was nowhere near as good. I do think 39% was an aberration but I also think he could probably shoot 35-36% from three if he was given a regular opportunity to keep shooting.

It's patently obvious I value Draymond much higher than you do. I think he sacrifices massively for the team and could be a far better all round player if the circumstances required it.

Well, yes I guess we see him differently. I think he benefits from the fact that he plays for this team and things like his shooting in that 2015-16 season get boosted because of the kind of players he's surrounded with. His assists numbers are also overstated by the quality of shooters he plays with. You put him in Phoenix Suns and it all goes to shit and he kills them all.
 
Nobody should be offering Draymond Green a max deal. That's stupid.
I agree wholeheartedly with this but I think there are GMs out there who may contemplate it. I don't believe the Dubs are one of these teams and I think Draymond will be gone when his contract is up in 2020 if not before after this little episode. I honestly believe the Warriors had this in mind all along and thus were trying to persuade KD to at least stay through next year (preferably longer of course, but at least through next year), first of all to play in the new Chase Center, and secondly because the band was going to break up anyway when it came time to pay Draymond his money.
 
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Well, yes I guess we see him differently. I think he benefits from the fact that he plays for this team and things like his shooting in that 2015-16 season get boosted because of the kind of players he's surrounded with. His assists numbers are also overstated by the quality of shooters he plays with. You put him in Phoenix Suns and it all goes to shit and he kills them all.
You put most people on the Phoenix Suns and it's not going to end well. :eek: