Nba 2011-2012

RDCR07 said:
I am surprised you picked Malone over centers like Kareem or The Admiral and also moved Hakeem out of his original position.
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I tried to balance my teams and Hakeem was a center for the bigger part of his career. Malone was never suited for the Center position, he is the greatest PF of all time.
 
ILBB15 said:
I tried to balance my teams and Hakeem was a center for the bigger part of his career. Malone was never suited for the Center position, he is the greatest PF of all time.
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Are you referring to Karl Malone because he never played a game at center that I'm aware of?

Now Moses Malone could player center.
 
ILBB15 said:
I tried to balance my teams and Hakeem was a center for the bigger part of his career. Malone was never suited for the Center position, he is the greatest PF of all time.
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I meant why would not pick a proper center instead of moving people out of position.
 
RDCR07 said:
I meant why would not pick a proper center instead of moving people out of position.
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But I haven't really put anybody out of position. Hakeem was a proper center and the greatest center of all time in my opinion.
 
Oscar Robertson was clearly the best PG in history, only player in history to average a triple double for a season.

Actually the top point guards have some very impressive stats, I can see an argument for Magic or West as well. I got a bit carried away, here are the NBA's greatest PGs, excluding anyone who is still playing in their prime.

Best season:
Robertson - 30.8 ppg, 11.4 ast, 12.5 re

Johnson - 23.9 ppg, 12.2 ast, 6.3 re

West - 31.2 ppg, 7.5 ast, 4.6 re

Iverson - 30.7 ppg, 7.9 ast, 4.0 re

Thomas - 21.2 ppg, 13.9 ast, 4.5 re

Maravich - 31.1 ppg, 5.4 ast, 5.1 re

Cousy - 19.4 ppg, 9.5 ast, 4.7 re

Stockton - 17.2 ppg, 14.5 ast, 2.7 steals

Nash - 18.6 ppg, 11.6 ast, 3.5 re

Frazier - 20.9 ppg, 8.2 ast, 6.0 re

Kidd - 16.9 ppg, 10.8 ast, 6.8 re

Payton - 24.2 ppg, 8.9 ast, 6.5 re

Monroe - 25.8 ppg, 4.9 ast, 3.5 re



Career average:
Robertson - 25.7ppg, 9.5 ast, 7.5 re .485 fg%

Johnson - 19.5 ppg, 11.2 ast, 7.2 re, .520 fg%

West - 27.0 ppg, 6.7 ast, 5.8 re, .474 fg%

Iverson - 26.7 ppg, 6.2 ast, 3.7 re, 2.2 steals, .425 fg%

Thomas - 19.2 ppg, 9.3 ast, 3.6 re, .452 fg%

Maravich - 24.2 ppg, 5.4 ast, 4.2 re, .441 fg%

Cousy - 18.4 ppg, 7.5 ast, 5.2 re, .375 fg%

Stockton - 13.1 ppg, 10.5 ast, 2.2 steals, .515 fg%

Nash - 14.5 ppg, 8.6 ast, 3.0 re, .491 fg%

Frazier - 18.9 ppg, 6.1 ast, 5.9 re, .490 fg%

Kidd - 13.0 ppg, 9.0 ast, 6.4 re, .401 fg%

Payton - 16.3 ppg, 6.7 ast, 3.9 re, .466 fg%

Monroe - 18.8 ppg, 3.9 ast, 3.0 re, .464 fg%
 
I'd go with:

Robertson
Jordan
Bird
Duncan
Russell

Hard to choose between Russell and Chamberlain, Jabbar and others, but Russell is the one with 11 titles so he gets the nod. I might want to cheat and play two centers, but Duncan deserves to be recognized as the greatest power forward of all time.
 
Even though it is your opinion that Duncan is the best PF of all time and I respect it, he wasn't even voted to the top 50 players of all time.
 
I don't count fraud era stats. Something was clearly up with the bottom end talent in the Wilt/Oscar times, some stats are ridiculous, it's as if there were like 1 great team, a few good ones, and then a bunch to juice stats.

All-time team

Stockton
Jordan
Bird
Duncan
Kareem

All-time team 2

Magic
Allen GOATverson(the owner of the greatest carry job in NBA history)
LeBrick
Chuck
The Dream

Kobe great and all, but yeah, I'm an Allen Iverson fan.
 
RDCR07 said:
Even though it is your opinion that Duncan is one of the best PF of all time and I respect it, he wasn't even voted to the top 50 players of all time.
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Dude....you should possibly research the eligibility of that list. College players not allowed.

Anytime, anyone, anywhere has done "greatest PF" lists, he's been top or 2nd with Malone since like he started. Duncan is the player of his generation, without the hype, so Kobe gets that accolade, but Duncan is better than him all in, Kobe will hang around at a higher level longer though.
 
Zen said:
Dude....you should possibly research the eligibility of that list. College players not allowed.

Anytime, anyone, anywhere has done "greatest PF" lists, he's been top or 2nd with Malone since like he started. Duncan is the player of his generation, without the hype, so Kobe gets that accolade, but Duncan is better than him all in, Kobe will hang around at a higher level longer though.
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I am not talking about the best PF's of all time and I am not counting college players. I am talking of the 50 greatest players of all time to ever play the game.
 
Point_over_your_head.jpg


Yeah....when that list was made, Duncan was a college player.

Unless of course we talking some random Bleacher Report top 50 or something, but SI, Slam, even revised NBA listings(though not an official top 50 update to the 96 one) mostly have him top 10, if not top 20.
 
And Duncan had 4 titles, Malone has none. There's something to be said for the intangibles of being a champion.

But I don't have any problem with Malone being considered the best either, these stat comparisons are definitely favorable to him.

Best Season:
Duncan - 25.5 ppg, 12.7 re, 3.7 ast, 2.5 blk
Malone - 31.0 ppg, 11.0 re, 2.8 ast, 1.5 st

Career Average:
Duncan - 20.3 ppg, 11.3 re, 3.1 ast, 2.2 blk
Malone - 25.0 ppg, 10.1 re, 3.6 ast, 1.4 st
 
If Duncan had to compete against the 90s Bulls and Olajuwon in his prime years he would be without a title as well.

Duncan is a great player no doubt but I'd take Malone ahead of him.
 
I expect my hate for the Miami Heat to grow bigger and bigger the longer this series goes on, perhaps even coming close to my level of hate for the Lakers in 2002.
 
Another bogus technical call on Boston. The Miami player doesn't get squat for attempting to instigate/retaliating. I fecking hate home court bias in basketball.
 
Well there you go gooDevil, as if I've already seen it.. Pierce hits 8 (instead of 5), Allen hits one more three pointer than last game, and Boston shoot better from the free throw line, and here is the different game I talked about..
 
It's a fecking disgrace how much effort the NBA is putting in to make sure James gets a title. Where's the Drogba gif when you need it?

Spectacular performance by Rondo, one of the best we've seen in the playoffs. Really deserved to go home with the win.

On the other hand, it would be great to see the Spurs sweep the Heat in the finals, no outside help in the world could make the Heat beat the Spurs if both teams play like they've done so far.
 
Wow! What a game! Terrible free throw shooting by Miami this time but they get away with it in the end..

Great game by Rondo who played every single second of this game.. Great team effort this time by Miami, even though James and Wade still led the scoring. The "role players" played a crucial role in the win tonight..
 
ILBB15 said:
It's a fecking disgrace how much effort the NBA is putting in to make sure James gets a title. Where's the Drogba gif when you need it?

Spectacular performance by Rondo, one of the best we've seen in the playoffs. Really deserved to go home with the win.

On the other hand, it would be great to see the Spurs sweep the Heat in the finals, no outside help in the world could make the Heat beat the Spurs if both teams play like they've done so far.
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Yeah they have been planning that Rondo no call for the last 5 years.. :lol:
 
Danny1982 said:
Yeah they have been planning that Rondo no call for the last 5 years.. :lol:
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Yes, because that's exactly what I said...

Anyone who watched the game will spot the numerous Heat fouls in the paint that were not called, especially that sensational "block" by Wade on Allen in the 3rd quarter. Wade somehow manages to get away with having commited 2 fouls the entire match, as does James. On the other end of the court, a little bump or a tap by a celtics player is enough to call a foul, sometimes a Celtics player doesn't have to do anything at all to get called for the foul (Rondo/James diving for the ball).

How is it that a super agressive defender like James (who on offence also sets illegal screens almost all the time) commits a significantly lower amount of fouls than Pippen and Jordan did, both of them superior defenders who played in an era that allowed a whole lot more contact.

The NBA is a business. And James is the leagues biggest marketing tool.

I'm not a Lebron hater, I think he's a sensational player who gets criticized too much a lot of times.
 
Especially that Wade block?! What's wrong with that?! How many times did you see Boston players touching the ball when Wade or James are driving to the basket??

You know what, I disagree with what you said. I think the Rondo no call was the only clear wrong call in the game, and I'll leave it at that..

And I honestly don't think you would do a better job officiating the Heat games.
 
Danny1982 said:
Especially that Wade block?! What's wrong with that?! How many times did you see Boston players touching the ball when Wade or James are driving to the basket??

You know what, I disagree with what you said. I think the Rondo no call was the only clear wrong call in the game, and I'll leave it at that..

And I honestly don't think you would do a better job officiating the Heat games.
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What's wrong with it is that Wade first bumps him in the air, hits him on the arm and then blocks it. Almost every player in the league would have blocked that one if they were allowed to do that.

I have no personal stake in the outcome of the playoffs, I'm a Partizan Belgrade fan. There's a reason why many basketball fans don't like the Heat and it's clearly not because they are the best team that people envy, because so far they're not. I know guys back home in Serbia who have been sympatetic to the Heat since the days Alonzo Mourning was their key man and they don't like them anymore.

You're not really in a position to judge whether or not I would do a better job officiating. I personally believe that I would do a fantastic job, a much better job on the court than I ever did as a player ;)
 
Anyway, another topic that can be brought up for discussion after tonights game is a disease that has plauged the sport of basketball for far too long.

The game is tied with 20 seconds left, the superstar player of the attacking team has the ball, there's no movement at all on the court. With a couple of seconds left on the clock he starts to dribble, then he attempts a contested fade-away shot from the perimeter. Why does it have to be like this?

It would make more sense to start moving the ball around with about 10 seconds left, set some screens, make some cuts, give the ball to your big man who posts up and let him kick it out to a wide open shooter when they double team him etc. and there's a big chance that you'll get a high percentage shot, doesn't really matter which player on the court shoots it. Basically, just run your offence like you do almost every single possesion and I can guarantee you that there's a bigger chance you'll hit a high-percentage shot or get fouled and hit some free-throws and win the game.

Is it fair to whold Michael Jordan responsible for this phenomenon?
 
ILBB15 said:
Anyway, another topic that can be brought up for discussion after tonights game is a disease that has plauged the sport of basketball for far too long.

The game is tied with 20 seconds left, the superstar player of the attacking team has the ball, there's no movement at all on the court. With a couple of seconds left on the clock he starts to dribble, then he attempts a contested fade-away shot from the perimeter. Why does it have to be like this?

It would make more sense to start moving the ball around with about 10 seconds left, set some screens, make some cuts, give the ball to your big man who posts up and let him kick it out to a wide open shooter when they double team him etc. and there's a big chance that you'll get a high percentage shot, doesn't really matter which player on the court shoots it. Basically, just run your offence like you do almost every single possesion and I can guarantee you that there's a bigger chance you'll hit a high-percentage shot or get fouled and hit some free-throws and win the game.

Is it fair to whold Michael Jordan responsible for this phenomenon?
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That is what separates the greats from the not so greats. Moving the ball around and setting screens have potentials for turnovers.
 
RDCR07 said:
That is what separates the greats from the not so greats. Moving the ball around and setting screens have potentials for turnovers.
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Sure, if there's not much time left on the clock or you're down a couple of points and you need a quick basket, give the ball to your best player and hope that he will knock it down.

But when you have a lot of time on the clock, it doesn't make sense. Be optimistic, sure there's always the possibilty that you may turn it over but the defence can't play as agressively as they would want to. They are scared of making a foul and putting you on the free-throw line.

Classic example:

 
ILBB15 said:
Is it fair to whold Michael Jordan responsible for this phenomenon?
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No. We blame MJ, for everyone believing, the superstar should more often than not, make the shot.

In terms of manufacturing the best available shot...in most circumstances that would be a shot for your big men, right? After all, they are the only people on the team that shoot above 50% on a regular basis...but how many times have you seen a big guy get the last shot in the paint?
 
Neutral said:
No. We blame MJ, for everyone believing, the superstar should more often than not, make the shot.

In terms of manufacturing the best available shot...in most circumstances that would be a shot for your big men, right? After all, they are the only people on the team that shoot above 50% on a regular basis...but how many times have you seen a big guy get the last shot in the paint?
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Many of the big men's FGs are easy baskets created by other players on the team and as a consequence of other circumstances (tip-ins, easy dunks/layups due to defensive lapses etc.), which is one of the reasons that they have a higher FG%, including the big players who are not even that great. In the last possesion the paint is usually cramped and the defenders are on high alert and more concentrated than in the middle of the game so you won't be able to get of a really high percentage shot from there by a big man (unless you have a skyhook like Kareem), but that will leave open shooters on the floor, so in my opinion it will only benefit your team if you get the big man involved somehow.
 
^My point exactly...so it's more often than not, going to come from the perimeter. With teams not risking a zone, in case a team finds a crease and an open man, everyone usually goes to basically a soft man to man D. And with that comes, the opportunity for your guards, to do their thing. Take on a man one-on-one and beat him off the dribble or create some space and take that final shot.

As for using the big guy to draw in defenders and then kick it back out to the open man...why do you think the big guys who can pass are so celebrated in the NBA - they are a rarity.

I see from your location, you are European, and I think this is where the different styles of play clash. European big men who can handle the rock and pass are a norm...not so for American bigs.
 
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