De Sciglio's been shit for a while now, mate.
Nathaniel Clyne | Signed for Liverpool
- Thread starter Red Dreams
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I wouldn't mind him as competition for Rafael but by the looks of it Rafael if off and Clyne would join as our first choice Rb. I won't judge him until he plays for us though, some players raise their performances when joining a better team. If it's not a stupid fee then he's worth the gamble.
One plus, Prem transfers hit the ground running ?
He'll have 1 year left on his contract in summer, right? Shouldn't be costing us more than £20m I should hope.
It would be ridiculous to pay that even if he had 5 years on his contract
Shaw was special circumstances because he still had teenage years ahead of him, despite having 2 seasons as one of the best left backs in the league
Clyne is 23 years old and enjoying his first good season in the premier league, he still has some areas he needs to improve. He gets beat too easily defensively, offensively he's more of an athlete than a cultured technical player. He can beat a man but his final ball, pass or cross is average. Despite that he's a hard worker ala Valencia and will rack up the numbers for tackles, he makes the 2nd most of these for a fullback in the league and for a while he made the most tackles in the league. So he does have his merits defensively.
However what good are 4 tackles in a game if the opposition winger skips past once or twice easily and creates a couple of great goalscoring chances that you conceed from? Making lots of tackles as a fullback is only good on top of ensuring the opposition wings arent creating a couple of great chances from where you are responsibile for. Its not good enough for a top club if you make a lot of tackles but are a weak point anyway. We have that already from Antonio Valencia who similarly makes a lot of tackles (the most at United this season anyway) and yet is an area where opponents have too much joy
One interesting stat I'd look at is the amount of times on average that a fullback is dribbled past.
Would you believe that in 1st place, being dribbled past 0.2 times per match this season is 19 year old Luke Shaw? He's been a bit dissappointing going forward this season especially when we play with wingbacks, but this stat shows why Luke Shaw is a big deal and why we went to such lengths to sign him
Seamus Coleman isn't far off at 0.3 times per match and makes the top 5. Ryan Bertrand is 0.4, same as Ivanovic and Baines making joint 9th with some others.
Antonio Valencia is at 0.5 times per match joint 14th best with lots of others.
Skipping forward now to find the 0.9s where Nathaniel Clyne is, it turns out he's joint 50th on the list with Janmaat, Bardsley and Reveillere. Rafael is also 0.9 coming back from injury and not being at his best making only 6 starts.
McNair is at 0.8, Ashley Young 0.5 for the sake of perspective.
So this particular stat and the way things currently sit reflects what I've seen when I've watched Clyne this season. He might win the ball plenty of times for his team with tackles, but the opposition winger skips past him too easily and thats very much like Antonio Valencia - but Valencia has been beaten less often. And that is a worry for someone taking Clyne. Its even more of a worry when people talk about him being a £20 million or more player
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Fancy foreigner.
Clyne has been more or less an ever present in the best defence in the division. He's good going forward and we'll get him for a relatively low fee given his contractual situation. Plus he's homegrown. We've lost a lot of our quota recently and a couple more may leave: Smalling, Jones, Evans, Young. Carrick is approaching 34. Clyne is good enough, fit enough and his nationality is certainly a bonus.
Rafael's better than him ffs.
He is, but it's quite clear he's getting booted as soon as.
Clyne is a better defensive full back IMO.
I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if we splashed around that mark on him in the summer.
I just added to that post the numbers that backup what I believe to be the case, that he gets beaten too often. I think its worth a read and a bit alarming if we were to pay that much for him
But he doesn't fit the profile of my philosophy.
I agree with Ekeke.
Kyle Walker was a supposed £20m target at one stage. Clyne is a better defender than Walker but there's not that much in it when Walker was in form
Kyle Walker was a supposed £20m target at one stage. Clyne is a better defender than Walker but there's not that much in it when Walker was in form
The worrying part is Walker is one of the 49 fullbacks in the league that has been beaten less often than Clyne, 0.4 times beaten per match. Half as often as Clyne
I'm not sure how the stat works exactly but that possibly due to Walker being even quicker than Clyne. It's a decent comparison though I think, especially as Walker was getting huge praise for similarly limited attacking play
I don't think we will sign him tbh.He's one of the players that fans by some reasons always believe will come to us at some points,despite it never actually happened aka Sneijder,Gaitan,Strootman,etc,...
I'm not entirely sure either, it could even be something like Southampton are much stronger centrally than Spurs, so opponents focus their efforts on the wing and hence Clyne is beaten a fair bit more often. That would explain why Clyne can make lots of tackles, which is the stat he looks good on compared to other fullbacks - because so much of the play is focused on attacking down the wing against Southampton rather than centrally.
However that wouldnt explain why Bertrand fares a lot better. Sure, teams might focus on attacking Southampton down the wings but why is it Clyne on one side and Bertrand isn't as exposed on the other?
I still think Clyne has been one of the better fullbacks this season, but getting beaten too often makes me think he'd be a minimal improvement for us. £15 million or more fees are usually for special fullbacks and I don't think Clyne comes close to being that.
What?
More like it shouldn't even be costing us £12million if he's got a year left on his contract.
I rate Rafael much higher but, with Danilo all but signed with Real Madrid Clyne is probably the best RB we could acquire.
We should keep Rafael and buy Clyne. Rafael could maybe be used elsewhere. He's injury prone but worth keeping. He's young enough to over come these knocks. Clyne will be an England regular for years to come. I think it's important we have a healthy quota of English lads and he seems a pretty good option. We might not even have to go as high as 20 Million - if the player wants to come here. We could always make it dependent on success etc.
To buy 6 players from other different leagues isn't always smart.
I'd hold off judgement on Shaw if I were you. He's not even reached his Southampton level yet for us and I have a feeling it's because of what he's being asked to do on the pitch.
His signing makes no sense under LVG because he wants to dull the aspects of his game that made him stand out. The next man will hopefully play him to his strengths, by which time Shaw will still be young anyway.
You think we'll actually sign him for £12m or less?What?
More like it shouldn't even be costing us £12million if he's got a year left on his contract.
We have English players, but few people want to see Smalling and Jones playing. I don't think Clyne is any better in his position than they are
I don't mind either Smalling or Jones. What I want to see from them though, is an improvement in their technical ability. Smalling reminds me of an uncomfortable Rio. Jones a shit vidic. We've been interested in Clyne for quite a while and I think we might be able to get him for a fair price if we're smart. We should always look to sign the best young English talent. I just want our coaches to recognize some of our lads have zero technical ability - it needs to be addressed.
Yes because he only has a year left on his contract.
If the plan is to stay in midtable forever, then sure. Otherwise, we should sign the best players, not the best English player. Because you know, some of the last English players we signed: Young, Jones, Smalling, Zaha, Powell haven't worked that well. And the next bunch of English players isn't any better.
If the plan is to become the best team in the world, then we should sign some quality players. Not EPL proven players who can do a job, but players who can be the best in the world in their position, be it English or otherwise. And Clyne isn't near that level of players, nor will ever be.
I would say England produce better defenders then attackers. Young? Well he's playing about as well now as Valencia ever did and both have won a league/s title. Jones? We've won a league with him. Smalling? Same. Zaha? Technically good and who knows what would have happened IF Sir Alex never retired. We might be excited about Zaha? We'll never know. Powell? Similar to Zaha in that he was a Sir Alex player - though to be fair, he's still at the club.
Obviously you mix and match. I think Clyne looks a good option but yeah for guile, flair etc you would want to look elsewhere 9/10. Incidently, I think most people saw with Kane this season that a player CAN step up. Sometimes it happens. Not always. We've seen the opposite with Shaw (maybe due to injury) but then again he was basically replacing Patrice...
No one really knows what would happen but if we have to sign someone? He's a good option and young enough to improve. He also rejected us in the past so maybe he has a bit of common sense which you need to be a top player
Obviously you mix and match. I think Clyne looks a good option but yeah for guile, flair etc you would want to look elsewhere 9/10. Incidently, I think most people saw with Kane this season that a player CAN step up. Sometimes it happens. Not always. We've seen the opposite with Shaw (maybe due to injury) but then again he was basically replacing Patrice...
No one really knows what would happen but if we have to sign someone? He's a good option and young enough to improve. He also rejected us in the past so maybe he has a bit of common sense which you need to be a top player
Yes, he's struggled in his first season for both fitness and I think the club has been too much for him as such a young age. Next season we will see a very good Luke Shaw, i'm certain.
I dont think Clyne has a huge amount of technical ability compared to other fullbacks either. He's more of an athlete, fast and the energy to work hard for 90 mins
Matic should be off
In two years time it's quite likely that the only British players in our current squad that will remain are Rooney, Shaw and Wilson.
Carrick hasn't got long left, Young won't be here long term and two of Smalling, Jones and Evans will be lucky to last the summer.
Like it or not, we need to be in the market for the best young footballers in Britain. That's always been the case and that shouldn't change given the requisite quality exists.
Clyne is good enough to play here and is a regular in the best defence in the country. He's surprised many and I wouldn't bet against him surprising people further.
Signing the best players available is a given. But other factors do exist and I'm yet to hear of many other targeted right backs elsewhere that are demonstrating Clyne's current form and improvement.
Young plaing as good as Valencia ever did? Are you serious? Valencia was brillaint in his first three seasons, in one of those seasons being our best overall player. Young has been average to poor with like 10 good games for us.
Jones, Zaha and Powell have been crap. Smalling was quite good in his first season for us, but since then he has been crap too. We can make as many excuses as you want.
Kane is something else. He seems to be a brilliant player and if we sign him, I would be happy. Clyne in the other side, is a player who 'can do a job' and won't ever become that good. If we sign him it is because he's an English EPL proven player. Similarily to many failures we have signed on the last few years.
We can survive without British players. Sign them if they're good enough obviously - I would prefer an English player to a foreigner if they are the same quality - but it would be madness to sign them for the sake of being British. We should have the best players if we want to have the best team.
There isn't any rule that says you should have x British players on the team.
Completely agree that the requisite quality exists. English players have been crap for a while and it doesn't seem that it is going to change. The only English players that I think we sould try to sign are Kane, Stones (possibly) and Sterling (but the last one won't ever happen).
To have 11 players from 11 different countries is surely not the way to success
No-one said that though. To have 11 great players is the road to success though!
Well, we need to hit quotas regarding homegrown players. Yes, they can be foreign players that have progressed through the youth system, but British players are a part of fulfilling said quota. Pogba's and Adnan's don't grow on trees.
I don't think anybody is advocating signing players because they are British, moreso suggesting that ignoring the value of a quality English player is unwise.
You may not rate Clyne that highly, which is fine, but the acknowledged alternatives are sparse in depth and quality.
We have enough homegrown players. And it is 'homegrown' players, not British players.
As a matter of fact, I don't rate that much (highly enough to think that they can be decent starters here) Clyne or Berahino.
You're repeating things I've just myself acknowledged.
Like I said, most of them will be leaving in the near-to-mid term future anyway.
I see who stole my meds.
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