Murtough's 2nd Summer | How did he do?

[croadyman]

Pretty awful. Mount and Hojlund are very poor value signings who barely improve the team. Jury is still out on Onana. Maguire and McTominay shouldn't still be here. Amrabat is a good signing but he should have been signed a month ago.

The new owners will give Murtough and Arnold the boot and it will be no less than they deserve.

Yeah only IF new ownership actually materialises which I still think is debatable. These leeches are a huge reason we couldn't put in proper bids for Kane/Rice. Look, if they decided to still join Bayern/Arsenal then fair enough. We should at least have been in a strong enough financial position to bid for them.

 

[alexthelion]

You would keep Murtough on?

Yes, because I believe the real problem is having to get the Glazer's OK for everything.

I'd like to see what he could do under new owners. If there's no improvement, then he would have to go.

 

[Cassidy]

Says a random keyboard warrior with no context or facts. I rest my case.

You rest your case.
Feel free to elaborate on the relationships Murtough has in football which has allowed United to build a squad for Ten Hag that didnt involve Ten Hag suggesting the player or Ten Hags agent and agency helping to recruit the player. I’ll wait the DOF I mentioned have countless examples of this including even Edu.

Feel free to provide the context as to why Murtough is a good DOF for United despite the evidence over 2 years that he isn’t (including the Rangnick debacle)

 

[bond19821982]

You rest your case.
Feel free to elaborate on the relationships Murtough has in football which has allowed United to build a squad for Ten Hag that didnt involve Ten Hag suggesting the player or Ten Hags agent and agency helping to recruit the player. I’ll wait the DOF I mentioned have countless examples of this including even Edu.

Feel free to provide the context as to why Murtough is a good DOF for United despite the evidence over 2 years that he isn’t (including the Rangnick debacle)

You are the one who said he doesn't have any relationships and so the onus is on your side to back it up with facts or proofs. Unless you prove that, it would just be considered as another random moaning post from a keyboard warrior.

 

[Cassidy]

You are the one who said he doesn't have any relationships and so the onus is on your side to back it up with facts or proofs. Unless you prove that, it would just be considered as another random moaning post from a keyboard warrior.

Proof is in the pudding. None of the signings for the mens team have come from HIS relationships. Which is why I made the statement

 

[manutddjw]

Not good.

overpaid for Mount and Hojlund and took until deadline day to secure a player who basically went on strike

 

[Tony247]

Somewhat risky transfers this summer. The team needs stability and consistency. This transfer window provided very little of it.

 

[Camilo]

Truly amazing.

Mount - what can you say? He's a player of professional status.

Onana, who will pass better than DDG but will save fewer shots. A nice sideways step into the flavour of last week.

That striker who isn't Harry Kane. Hope he's good.

And now a mid table Italian league player on loan, and that other guy on loan.

League challenge is mathematically possible right now, so I'm convinced it's a big step forward.

 

[Ralph1386]

However I’m still not sure if it’s him or just the people he works for as to the real issue with our club.

It’s both. Time will prove it.

 

[El Jefe]

Wasn't sure if this was the right thread for it, but someone on Reddit made a very clean graphic of our squad depth. LCM still looks weak to me, ST and RW are relying a lot on youth, with ST in particular lacking depth due to Martial's injury woes. We look mostly healthy elsewhere.

Not a single area of the squad can be considered the best or elite at anything. Even if your break it down into compartments.

The strongest part of our team is probably our defence and that's a 7.5 at best considering we have Maguire and Evans in there.

Its a team that can play good football and finish top four but by the end of the season I'm sure we'll be looking to improve every area of the team. We have no strengths.

 

[AltiUn]

Not a single area of the squad can be considered the best or elite at anything. Even if your break it down into compartments.

The strongest part of our team is probably our defence and that's a 7.5 at best considering we have Maguire and Evans in there.

Its a team that can play good football and finish top four but by the end of the season I'm sure we'll be looking to improve every area of the team. We have no strengths.

To put it bluntly I'd be happy swapping squads with most of our rivals.

 

[Gavinb33]

We should have paid whatever extra was needed to get him out - a strong DOF also would’ve gone full Don Corleone on his mercenary ass.

It wouldn't be up to the DoF to agree the pay out, it's up to the CEO and owners people have this weird view the DoF is in control of things like this which couldn't be further from the truth, if they accepted the offer the football side of the business has done there bit the negotiation of a pay off would be so far beyond their remit

 

[Swearing Budgie]

Should have signed Maddison and Ward-Prowse. I guess they slipped past our scouting network somehow…

 

[Resch]

One expensive unproven promising striker, no experienced Nr.9. No plan B after Greenwood?
Needed deadline day to sign a DM.
Could not sell enough players or form a balanced squad.
Unbalanced midfield, defense, attack.
Signed a particularly good keeper.
Seems to have no plan how to build a squad. Think he has no idea of a good mixture of experience, hunger, talent, work rate, age, technique, power, and payment.

 

[jem]

And what, not fund Amrabat? Are you aware of our FFP situation?

Which we likely wouldn’t have if more sales had been made.

 

[dinostar77]

I think overall its been a good window. We have FFP restrictions, a pending takeover, a new superpower (saudi league) snapping up players and a new style of play to implement.

We got a progressive sweeper keeper in Onana who allows us to play a high defensive line.

Jury is out on our new number 2 keeper.

Amrabat will add steel and strength to our midfield, its been a long time since we had a play with his characteristics i.e. Carrick like.

Mount, we will have to see over the course of the season how he progresses and whether he can adapt to being a no 8.

Regulion is a experienced pacey left back to have as emergency cover for the injuries to Shaw and Malacia.

Hojilund again remains to be seen, as we havent seen him in action yet for utd. But seeing there is a dirth of Strikers in the market, at least we have one of the next gen ones.

Outgoing wise, we still have players we need to jettison, but you cant get everything done in one window. Another window or two and we ahoudl hopefully have the squad ETH wants and all the excess in terms of unwanted players will be sorted.

 

[Katy Cat]

Hmmmm. One of the recurring themes in here has it that 'if only we could've sold < insert multiple players > for £100m...then we could've bought < insert Kane (a lot of the time), Osimhen and others >', often with an allusion to how this would've made us a title challenger.

It just doesn't stack up and it only takes a bit of critical thinking to see that.

On the sales side, I think we've done OKish. It's an improvement on how badly we were doing and it's going in the right direction. Elanga (who's just scored for Forest) and Henderson both went for pretty decent fees (I'd accept Henderson might have been a ~£30m sale had we moved him at the right time), whilst Fred was a 30yo in the final year of his contract. Of the rest of the names regularly touted, VdB is, bluntly, almost worthless - nobody is offering us more than a few million at best - whilst Martial is a future hoped-for transfer to the Saudi league, if / when he shows any sort of sustained fitness.

That takes us to Maguire and McTominay, where it gets a bit more interesting. They were always the most saleable assets (a loose term in context), but selling them is not straightforward. Maguire was just a terrible buy, who in a grim way, illustrates how badly the club has been run - a yeoman defender, good at headers, horribly over-hyped, now turned into a social media meme. Sure, he might be an England regular (just: I don't see that lasting much longer) but his reputation has cratered. There simply isn't a market for him, Moyes and WHU was the only real option and once that deal fell through, we were stuck. McT is more saleable but we're fooling ourselves if we think he's an easy sale: there are better players out there for the sort of fee (~£45m?) we appear to have demanded, and I think that showed on deadline day.

For what it's worth,, I think we'll regret not coming to an arrangement on compensation for Maguire (we aren't getting anything like £30m now) and accepting a lower, more realistic, fee for McT but I would never pretend any of this was / is easy (oh, and selling McT was always tangled-up in the FFP complexities surrounding our loan deals).

 

[VP89]

Which we likely wouldn’t have if more sales had been made.

Which as adressed 1000 times, isn't a Murtough fault. He accepted the bid for Maguire, it was Maguire who collapsed the deal.

He offloaded Henderson, Elanga, Telles, Fred and Kovar. McT was clearly still valued as a squad player and West Ham wouldn't meet the valuation.

 

[ItDoesntEvenMata]

Woeful window really - I'm really disappointed and I don't know if this falls on Murtough or the owners

The way I see it, we came into this window needing to replace Ronaldo still and De Gea and then improve our squad, which we could all see wasn't deep enough to keep up performance levels post-March.

Ronaldo has been replaced by Hojlund, which is a joke. We should have signed Hojlund/ a back-up developmental striker but a board serious about winning things should have been shopping in the Kane, Osimhen market too.

De Gea needed replacing and we got that done.

Those two replacements should have had a budget of their own - you need to go out and get two best in class replacements for two best in class players.

Then you're looking at the squad depth which needed arguably - backup striker, cm or two and probably a CB.

We've got our backup striker as our first choice striker, Mount, which I'm happy with,.Amrabat where we've penny pinched and possibly dropped points at Spurs for not having in

We should have cleared out far more deadwood such as Maguire and McTominay.

Our squad is not as strong on paper as it was at the start of Ole's last season

 

[Giggsy13]

Somewhat risky transfers this summer. The team needs stability and consistency. This transfer window provided very little of it.

You realize that stability and consistency come from a settled squad. We’ve brought in several new players in the last 2 years and introduced 6 to 7 new players into our starting 11 including a new keeper after having the same one for over a decade. Hojlund hasn’t even made an appearance and some already calling the move a failure. Patience is in short supply with many along with common sense.

 

[Giggsy13]

Woeful window really - I'm really disappointed and I don't know if this falls on Murtough or the owners

The way I see it, we came into this window needing to replace Ronaldo still and De Gea and then improve our squad, which we could all see wasn't deep enough to keep up performance levels post-March.

Ronaldo has been replaced by Hojlund, which is a joke. We should have signed Hojlund/ a back-up developmental striker but a board serious about winning things should have been shopping in the Kane, Osimhen market too.

De Gea needed replacing and we got that done.

Those two replacements should have had a budget of their own - you need to go out and get two best in class replacements for two best in class players.

Then you're looking at the squad depth which needed arguably - backup striker, cm or two and probably a CB.

We've got our backup striker as our first choice striker, Mount, which I'm happy with,.Amrabat where we've penny pinched and possibly dropped points at Spurs for not having in

We should have cleared out far more deadwood such as Maguire and McTominay.

Our squad is not as strong on paper as it was at the start of Ole's last season

This must be a WUM because I can’t think of any other reason someone would actually think this…

 

[Chip]

Initially, I'm not impressed. I think that the Mount money could've been spent better, we've paid a bit too much for Højlund, and our outgoing business hasn't been very impressive.

But it's too early to tell. For all I know Højlund could prove to be a superstar in the future, Amrabat a new Carrick, Onana and Mount club legends one day.

 

[ItDoesntEvenMata]

This must be a WUM because I can’t think of any other reason someone would actually think this…

We went into that season having signed Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo off the back of a Europa Final and finishing 2nd. The Maguire Greek fiasco killed momentum too.

The expectations and mood was much better then.

Caveats to this - Casemiro has massively upgraded our CM and Martinez at LCB, but most people would have chosen Varane and Maguire on expectation.

 

[Stacks]

With the Glazers trying to sell he was perhaps hamstrung a bit. Id go 6.5 because once again we still holding onto deadwood FC.

 

[Giggsy13]

We went into that season having signed Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo off the back of a Europa Final and finishing 2nd. The Maguire Greek fiasco killed momentum too.

The expectations and mood was much better then.

Caveats to this - Casemiro has massively upgraded our CM and Martinez at LCB, but most people would have chosen Varane and Maguire on expectation.

So it makes you wonder why after finishing 3rd with a trophy and another finals appearance that the mood is so fecking sour…

 

[ItDoesntEvenMata]

So it makes you wonder why after finishing 3rd with a trophy and another finals appearance that the mood is so fecking sour…

I'm a massive Ten Hag fan - I think he's the man for the job and we will be very successful with him but the stand out things for me

We lost Ronaldo and had a serious problem with a focal striker last year - a serious club goes and buys a top striker

The squad depth - finishing 3rd and a trophy is great and I think we have the squad to do similar but if the demand is to sustain a title challenge then this window and the pattern of play so far this window doesn't indicate that.

The Wolves and Spurs games have done a lot to sour the mood

 

[Katy Cat]

Thoughts on fees....and alternatives:

- Onana is pretty good value at what we paid (Maignan was apparently the first choice but would've been twice the price)
- Mount is over-priced but a decent addition...a lot of the negativity is a product of the struggle to get a DM (which was the greater priority)
- Hojlund is definitely over-priced but he's a young player with a high ceiling...nobody will complain much if he starts scoring

The ST position is the interesting one because I don't see we had many alternatives out there at a significantly lower price - Muani has just gone for~£60m and Orban's stock is rapidly rising, meaning that any late market move would have probably meant paying similar.

Who do people think were the credible striking alternatives based on potential / availability / affordability? I just don't see that Kane or Osimhen were ever realistic targets, given all of the obvious.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

You realize that stability and consistency come from a settled squad. We’ve brought in several new players in the last 2 years and introduced 6 to 7 new players into our starting 11 including a new keeper after having the same one for over a decade. Hojlund hasn’t even made an appearance and some already calling the move a failure. Patience is in short supply with many along with common sense.

Very few are calling it a failure but don't you agree it is a huge gamble to pay 72m for a 20 year old who scored 9 serie A goals and has no PL experience? He might need 2 seasons before he is ready.

Mount didn't make much sense and his first two games vindicate that opinion but of course too soon to tell.

At least Amrabat makes more sense and didn't cost a fortune.

A poor window that on paper will not close the gap to City.

 

[Suedesi]

We missed out on Kim or Pavard while still carrying some deadwood like Harry Megs - (should have paid him off and gotten him off the books).
We overpaid for Holjund*
We overpaid for Mount, who I don't think we needed in the first place.
We overpaid for Onana*

*considering what they moved for 12-18 months ago

I'd say a 5/10 window from us - defense looks thin, midfield seems to not be working and we need Rasmus to fire on all cylinders upfront.

 

[theatreofdreams777]

Spending 200m and not improving the quality of the squad and the starting XI that much is a clear failure in itself and screams lack of planning. We overpaid for every single purchase (I include Onana in that too) bar Reguilon and some of them are huge gambles. It's really saying something that loaning a mid-table player from Serie A on the deadline day is seen as our saviour of our transfer window.

Outgoings front is even worse. Peanuts from the players we managed to sell and the likes of Maguire, VdB etc. are still here.

Basically nothing has changed from the previous era and Murtough is no different to Woodward. We still overpay for the players the manager (who already made some absurd decisions in the transfer market) wants and are still shocking when it comes to selling. 10 years ago we were trying to panic buy an average midfielder in Fellaini on the last minute too.

We won't be competing for PL or CL this year. Only thing I'm looking forward to this season is the club sale. Murtough and co gotta go when that happens.

 

[Adnan]

I'm a massive Ten Hag fan - I think he's the man for the job and we will be very successful with him but the stand out things for me

We lost Ronaldo and had a serious problem with a focal striker last year - a serious club goes and buys a top striker

The squad depth - finishing 3rd and a trophy is great and I think we have the squad to do similar but if the demand is to sustain a title challenge then this window and the pattern of play so far this window doesn't indicate that.

The Wolves and Spurs games have done a lot to sour the mood

Ronaldo was a hindrance and didn't in any way help the team as a cohesive unit. And his goals came at the detriment of the system, which never developed because his game out of possession was woeful. So having him on one end and De Gea on the other end, meant transition football was by default the way to go against half decent opposition.

Pogba was another player who wasn't suited to playing in a high pressing system due to him being weak in defensive transition and hence would get easily bypassed by opponents. It's why Pogba did well in Italy and the French NT but wasn't as effective in the fast paced EPL where the game at the top is centred around controlling transitions out of possession as well as imposing your own game in possession. Hence we adopted a transition focused play style with the McFred pairing providing the balance in a deeper defensive block.

It's not about signing big names but rather we need to sign players who tick the boxes when it comes to controlling the game with and without the ball. The concept is to attack with 11 and defend with 11.

 

[AR87]

I think it's a solid window, but not a great one.

I never expected us to be title challengers after 2 summers with ETH. The goal is to solidify our position as a top-4 team that is competitive in Europe. Next summer is when I expect us to bring in players who can genuinely have us challenging at the top domestically and in Europe.

I think we added profiles we needed in the squad and unloaded a decent amount of deadwood and fringe players, but not all because Woodward is the gift that keeps on giving with so many of these contracts.

6.5/10

 

[jesperjaap]

Why are people saying poor value signings or the jury is still out on our new signings when we are three games in, some havent even played, crazy statements to make. We wont know how good this window is for a good season. Like last year and the fantastic window it was claimed early on in the season, a year on we can see that it actually wasnt.

Personally I am am not overly enthusiastic or positive from it though, we have failed to bring in decent revunue from sales yet again, failed to move on players that have been here way too long already, over spent on almost every permanent deal and in turn been forced into a free transfer becuase of it. Also, time will tell but not that excited about any signing bar Hoijlund.

Bayindir - Confess had never heard of him and dont remember watching him so cant really comment. Bit unfortunate it all happened and then Schmeichel had the contract terminated though. But we have sold Henderson for just £15m maybe up to £20m,, think its weak we have initially only made £10m out of getting a new number two keeper

Onana - Everybody raving about how good he is with his feet as if other keepers arent? He is one of hte best at that of course and seems to have the right personality to succeed here. But, I am not sure he is top drawer in other areas, not that I really thought other keepers I have seen are either. But we have spent £45m on him and Brighton have spent £16m on a new keeper to replace a keeper some wanted here, who so far this season looks like a top keeper. Spurs have sent a similar amount on a very good young keeper. Not sure this is the super deal a lot are making it out to be and I am expecting lots of mistakes from him too, we have already seen a few

Johnny Evans - Like seriously wtf? We needed an upgrade at centre back as back up to Varane, he wasnt good enough a decade ago here, Maguire has stayed, why have we given him a one year deal. Makes absolutely no sense at all, free or not

Mount - Not judging on the first three games where he has been poor, its just three games. But £55m on Mount to play the number 8 role just made no sense to me. Think he is a good player, intrigued to see what Ten Hag has planned and sees in him there (or maybe worried). But I think this is a teerible deal. Liverpool have signed McAllister for £20m less, Spurs Maddison for £15m less, Newcastle the same fee for Tonali....and Mount had just a year on his contract?All three and there are other signings too would have been better signings for that role (and before people say it, Maddison has been playing fairly deep for Spurs so far). Hopefully it turns into a Ten Hag masterstroke, but I fear its a signing could have a huge effect on his season as both a poor one and the fee not enabling us to strengthen other areas

Hoijlund - Seen little of him, inexperienced and hos goal scoring record isnt great. There is no doubt whatever he achieves here, we overpaid for him. I do get the inkling from youtube videos and his interviews that he is goin gto be a big player here, but the fee is almost as crazy as the Antony one last year, should have been a good £10-15m less

As for the loan deals

Regulion - Looked good at Sevilla, looked awful at Spurs. In the premiership he has looked lightweight, ok going forward and really lackingn defensively. We have loaned a youngster in Williams not much worse, sold an experienced player for peanuts very similar and loaned another seems very similar again in Fernandez...and we have the supposedly super versatile attackign full back of Dalot can play there (never rated him).Not a big deal, its a loan but a strange one

Arambat - Only really seen world cup and a few Europa games and liked him everytime seen him. But still not sure he was the right profile all round we needed for a number 8. But I do think we have been prudent with an initial 10m loan deal, so i respect of value it is probably the best signing we have made this summer

No centre back upgrade and no second striker I think will cost us dearly this season irrelevant of how good or not the deals we have done turn out. We have improved the squad but in terms of what we need and improving the first eleven, am not that confident we have done it anywhere bar up front this summer and we have spent over £200m, think its actually a weaker window than last summer in a window where a few clubs have had big ones, so its not one fills me with optimism

 

[jesperjaap]

I think it's a solid window, but not a great one.

I never expected us to be title challengers after 2 summers with ETH. The goal is to solidify our position as a top-4 team that is competitive in Europe. Next summer is when I expect us to bring in players who can genuinely have us challenging at the top domestically and in Europe.

I think we added profiles we needed in the squad and unloaded a decent amount of deadwood and fringe players, but not all because Woodward is the gift that keeps on giving with so many of these contracts.

6.5/10

Not sur eif this is exactly right but the last few years, pretty sure that every year we have finished in the top four, the next season we have failed to do so, been poor and managers have lost jobs end of it.

Do you think this window solidifies our position in the top four when you see the transfers of several clubs that finished below us last year in comparison to our transfers? Also you say we have unloaded deadwood and several players. There was talk which was a little but not hugely unrealistic of raising up to £150m in sales this summer, we have barely raised £50m and havent sold a single player above £15m as the initial fee, that is terrible, dont get me wrong I am just glad to see some moved on, but some that are still here or just loans, we couldnt even loan VDB etc etc etc.

I just hope we can get into the top four this season as it looks the most competitive it has been for years in that regard, though that could change during the season but have seen a few poor summers post cl qualifying and the "next summer is the one" comments and though our window has been better than those, I fear the same scenario to a lesser degree could well play out again this year.

If we go back to the beginnign of the summer and names being mentioned in and out and look how we have finished, its not close to what was hoped for.

5/10 for me

 

[Adnan]

Ask Arsenal fans how he did until last year. Murtough has been with us on a recruiting role doing the similar jobs of a DoF for years now. @Adnan has written detailed posts related to his experience.

Ofcourse you are free to "stop " pretending whatever you want, but let's not twist the facts for the sake of it.

Arsenal fans have been criticising Edu for years now and some fans still do. And under Edu and Arteta they've finished 8th, 8th, 5th before finishing 2nd last season. What do you think the reaction would be on here if we finished 8th? We didn't even finish that low under Moyes.

And the players Edu and the Arsenal football structure couldn't sell, had their contracts terminated (mutual agreement) via Josh Kroenke paying off the below players to clear their wages and clean the slate for Edu to do his work. The ownership at Arsenal has played a big role in getting the unwanted players out. And Nicolas Pepe who was signed under Edu in 2019 for €80m is another player who they can't seem to shift and the rumours are that Josh Kroenke will again look to terminate his contract. The article below lists players that the Arsenal owner has got off the wage bill by paying them off. Their ownership under Josh Kroenke has made a big difference and he's been very patient with both Edu and Arteta. Because you don't survive at big clubs by finishing 8th, 8th and then 5th.

1. Henrikh Mkhitaryan
2. Willian
3. Sokratis
4. Shkodran Mustafi
5. Mesut Ozil
6. Sead Kolasinac
7. Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
8. Hector Bellerin

https://dailycannon.com/2023/08/arsenal-contract-terminations-pepe/

And regarding having contacts/relationships etc for a DoF is something I don't know a lot about. But I did read what Michael Edwards wrote in his open letter to the Liverpool fans where he said the guy with the contacts at the club was Barry Hunter who is a ex Northern Ireland International and is Liverpool's main guy along with Dave Fallows when it comes to recruitment. And Edwards was a little known analyst that was brought to Spurs by Harry Redknapp from Portsmouth.

And regarding our recruitment I think it's been good. I don't think we're going to win the league but we have taken a a longer-term approach to developing the team with the money we had. Bringing Mainoo into the team with a view to developing him as a metronome isn't something many seem to be happy with but I think it's potentially a good move. Onana is another positive move towards playing a more proactive brand of football and Mount along with Hojlund should improve our intensity levels in and out of possession with Amrabat, Mainoo and Casemiro as the central options behind them. You need options in the EPL in every position and the key is to have players who contribute with and without ball if the aim is to develop the team to play high up the pitch in the opponent's half.

It's not going to be easy but the players that have been signed fit into what I'm talking about above. And I'm not going to judge people for not removing players who were brought to the club by the previous regime. Like at PSG, Luis Campos shouldn't be judged on not being able to remove players that he inherited like Draxler and Veratti who are still at the club. But the PSG fans are not happy with Campos and some even say that his work was garbage last season.

 

[greater wall]

So it makes you wonder why after finishing 3rd with a trophy and another finals appearance that the mood is so fecking sour…

This. We were a mess and Ten Hag has got us playing as a team again. Third place and a trophy plus a final was a great season from where we were. Added a few players and sold some to shape the squad to his liking. Hopefully the striker buy will help because it was a clear shortcoming last year.

 

[AR87]

Not sur eif this is exactly right but the last few years, pretty sure that every year we have finished in the top four, the next season we have failed to do so, been poor and managers have lost jobs end of it.

Do you think this window solidifies our position in the top four when you see the transfers of several clubs that finished below us last year in comparison to our transfers? Also you say we have unloaded deadwood and several players. There was talk which was a little but not hugely unrealistic of raising up to £150m in sales this summer, we have barely raised £50m and havent sold a single player above £15m as the initial fee, that is terrible, dont get me wrong I am just glad to see some moved on, but some that are still here or just loans, we couldnt even loan VDB etc etc etc.

I just hope we can get into the top four this season as it looks the most competitive it has been for years in that regard, though that could change during the season but have seen a few poor summers post cl qualifying and the "next summer is the one" comments and though our window has been better than those, I fear the same scenario to a lesser degree could well play out again this year.

If we go back to the beginnign of the summer and names being mentioned in and out and look how we have finished, its not close to what was hoped for.

5/10 for me

Yes, I think this window solidifies is in top-4 and I also believe we'll see progression internally from Garnacho, Antony (will not be enough to justify the outlay imo), etc.

Re: selling - I agree the fees haven't been great, but Maguire for 30m would've been good, he refused to take less wages though. The biggest mistake for me was not accepting the McTominay bid to try to get more. That is the primary decision Murtough made that I think is unequivocally a mistake and one he has to own. VDB had loan offers, he just hasn't taken one yet but maybe he'll accept one from Turkey before their window closes.

I also believe that the sales of youth players that had low initial fees but sizable sell-on clauses are a decent concept and ones which could prove fruitful in a few years, but we won't know for a little while yet, obviously.

I don't really disagree with your points, but I think Murtough is having to take a lot of bullets for problems he inherited while having to operate on a budget that is tight for a lot of reasons unrelated to him or his own decisions.

Ultimately we'll have to see how the players we've brought in settle, but I think at surface level the profiles make sense for what we needed and what Ten Hag is trying to establish.

 

[bond19821982]

Arsenal fans have been criticising Edu for years now and some fans still do. And under Edu and Arteta they've finished 8th, 8th, 5th before finishing 2nd last season. What do you think the reaction would be on here if we finished 8th? We didn't even finish that low under Moyes.

And the players Edu and the Arsenal football structure couldn't sell, had their contracts terminated (mutual agreement) via Josh Kroenke paying off the below players to clear their wages and clean the slate for Edu to do his work. The ownership at Arsenal has played a big role in getting the unwanted players out. And Nicolas Pepe who was signed under Edu in 2019 for €80m is another player who they can't seem to shift and the rumours are that Josh Kroenke will again look to terminate his contract. The article below lists players that the Arsenal owner has got off the wage bill by paying them off. Their ownership under Josh Kroenke has made a big difference and he's been very patient with both Edu and Arteta. Because you don't survive at big clubs by finishing 8th, 8th and then 5th.

1. Henrikh Mkhitaryan
2. Willian
3. Sokratis
4. Shkodran Mustafi
5. Mesut Ozil
6. Sead Kolasinac
7. Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
8. Hector Bellerin

https://dailycannon.com/2023/08/arsenal-contract-terminations-pepe/

And regarding having contacts/relationships etc for a DoF is something I don't know a lot about. But I did read what Michael Edwards wrote in his open letter to the Liverpool fans where he said the guy with the contacts at the club was Barry Hunter who is a ex Northern Ireland International and is Liverpool's main guy along with Dave Fallows when it comes to recruitment. And Edwards was a little known analyst that was brought to Spurs by Harry Redknapp from Portsmouth.

And regarding our recruitment I think it's been good. I don't think we're going to win the league but we have taken a a longer-term approach to developing the team with the money we had. Bringing Mainoo into the team with a view to developing him as a metronome isn't something many seem to be happy with but I think it's potentially a good move. Onana is another positive move towards playing a more proactive brand of football and Mount along with Hojlund should improve our intensity levels in and out of possession with Amrabat, Mainoo and Casemiro as the central options behind them. You need options in the EPL in every position and the key is to have players who contribute with and without ball if the aim is to develop the team to play high up the pitch in the opponent's half.

It's not going to be easy but the players that have been signed fit into what I'm talking about above. And I'm not going to judge people for not removing players who were brought to the club by the previous regime. Like at PSG, Luis Campos shouldn't be judged on not being able to remove players that he inherited like Draxler and Veratti who are still at the club. But the PSG fans are not happy with Campos and some even say that his work was garbage last season.

Precisely this. This is why I love to read your posts. Everything backed with facts rather than carpet bombing.

We have been doing just fine in recruitment and I think we had an excellent window. Had certain targets in mind and we got all of them. Amrabat was obviously going to be based on outgoings and it was always going to be delayed.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is just moaning.

 

[bond19821982]

Proof is in the pudding. None of the signings for the mens team have come from HIS relationships. Which is why I made the statement

Relationships what do you even mean by this? So if we buy someone whom you don't know does that count as a "relationship "

Jeez, Cafe never ceases to amaze. People need to get out of this fm or fifa mode.

 

[-Supreme-]

Ronaldo was a hindrance and didn't in any way help the team as a cohesive unit. And his goals came at the detriment of the system, which never developed because his game out of possession was woeful. So having him on one end and De Gea on the other end, meant transition football was by default the way to go against half decent opposition.

Pogba was another player who wasn't suited to playing in a high pressing system due to him being weak in defensive transition and hence would get easily bypassed by opponents. It's why Pogba did well in Italy and the French NT but wasn't as effective in the fast paced EPL where the game at the top is centred around controlling transitions out of possession as well as imposing your own game in possession. Hence we adopted a transition focused play style with the McFred pairing providing the balance in a deeper defensive block.

It's not about signing big names but rather we need to sign players who tick the boxes when it comes to controlling the game with and without the ball. The concept is to attack with 11 and defend with 11.

What’s your thoughts on Rashford’s game out of possession and pressing?