Sancho was one that we'd consider offers for yes. As was McT. But he wasn't actively pursued to be flogged - that was well briefed. Also his wages isn't a Murtough indicement. As said many times Murtough inherited a bloated squad of big wages from Judge+Woodward. I dont see how you can blame that on him.It was briefed multiple times ETH was happy to sell Sancho and bring in a versatile forward. Sancho was on the original list of players United were looking to sell, however it was always said the club were not optimistic due to his wages.
There was even a suggestion of him going on loan to Dortmund (which I believe was driven by his camp). Ten Hag also used Maguire in preseason the fact Sancho played out of position in pre season whilst we looked for a striker tells you enough.
Especially as come start of the season he didn't start him, he's not wanted and he knows it
Thuram who went to Inter, Dembele from Lyon off the top of my head.
As for Amrabat and Hojlund, he overpaid which is why we had an issue signing Amrabat. He also failed to sell multiple players.
No one is saying you have to overpay, we need better negotiators at the club period.
Sancho was one that we'd consider offers for yes. As was McT. But he wasn't actively pursued to be flogged - that was well briefed. Also his wages isn't a Murtough indicement. As said many times Murtough inherited a bloated squad of big wages from Judge+Woodward. I dont see how you can blame that on him.
Dembele is shite by the way.
If I remember correctly there was also reports that Murtough was looking to place someone in a position under him, it feels like he doesn't have the conviction necessary to lead the club's sporting operations. Arguably the DOF is an even more important role than the manager so it needs to be someone who's definitive in their beliefs and ideology.
This isn't reactionary to the result as I've stated this before the season began, but the signings have been questionable including Casemiro on the premise of finances spent and the longevity of his influence and contribution. When you look at who United have spent money on, there's very minimalist evidence to predict what the strategy is over the next five years. It's very scattergun and opportunistic and I have always maintained that since being under ETH the team is being put together not built. It's very hard to forecast the success of the team.
Prior to this, United's relative success for the present and upcoming seasons is not determined by the quality of the team, but by the relativity in strength of the opposition. The team aren't moving the needle enough in the windows. It reflects poor planning. The whole De Gea debacle is a great example of this it reflects poorly om the club's management.
So we basically have 2 starters injured, 2 others subbed off during the game because of what looked like injury, but it’s lack of planning to have had to use your 5th and 6th choice CB 5min before the end of a game?
Also, how would you know his experience or his network?
Are you yourself director at any top flight european club by any chance, so that you would be privy to who knows who and who has experience and who hasn’t?
You’re just venting because you’re unhappy we lost a game, nothing in your post makes any sense at all
Also, how would you know his experience or his network?
Are you yourself director at any top flight european club by any chance, so that you would be privy to who knows who and who has experience and who hasn’t?
Have a nice season mate, once again you’re just ventingcalm down john, let me explain few things to you. first take a look at our CBs for a start:
Varane, injury prone
Martinez, solid
Lindelof, average af, bit injury prone
Baily, sicknote
Maguire, average af, should have been sold
Evans, really?
Shaw, auxiliary CB, bit injury prone
See there John? quantity wise we look fine but how about quality side, John? Not so much. Out of 7 CBs at this club, only 1 name that is dependable to go through whole season without problem, is that not a problem, John? How could you not strengthening our CB position considering the likes of Pau Torres (36M) and KMJ (45M) were available in the market last summer, John? You should have sold one of Lindelof or Maguire (because they were the ones that can expect to gain some money) and sign one of Pau Torres or KMJ, which will not only strengthen our defense instantly but also can take mantle from Varane, but i think this long term plan was so hard for professional bulshitter, i mean professional fraud, i mean professional football man like you, John.
Close this forum down, we, the average supporters are not worthy in front of professional football con-man, John Murtough.
"Can't expect him to undo 10 years of mismanagement". Checks employment date; Joined 2014. He wasn't making final decisions but we're also so delusional and desperate for good news we convinced ourselves Woodward's own proclaimed fixer had nothing to do with what happened from 2014-2021. He was just sat at some cubicle for 10 years being bullied and having all of his genius wasted. I hope the tea lady can have a go soon.
Maybe we're the ones who are too spoilt and irrational. I'm sure the genius within will start to unlock if we give him another 3 summers and another couple hundred mill. Hope he has also made progress on the scouting department dream team he was putting together last summerI know on paper it’s pretty ridiculous that Arnold and Murtough who were key allies of Woodward were given the chance to succeed him after years and years of failure. But the key thing is Woodward chose to leave, I’ve no doubt the owners would still have him in charge now so it makes sense he was succeeded by them.
Anyone who believed these two didn’t have some accountability for all the failure and would spearhead huge changes and success was being very naive.
Have a nice season mate, once again you’re just venting
This has probably already been pointed out but Bayindir for Heaton doesn't work. Heaton is still at the club. Bayindir replaces Butland/Dubravka.Some people will always keep complaining. For about 100m net, we've got all our priority targets (Onana for De Gea, Hojland for Ronaldo/Weghorst, Mount for Fred, Bayindir for Heaton), plus Amrabat & Reguilon on loan deals for literally nothing. This for me is one of the smartest windows we've had in a very long time.
This has probably already been pointed out but Bayindir for Heaton doesn't work. Heaton is still at the club. Bayindir replaces Butland/Dubravka.
Murtough is Hargreaves' boss. He's the one who brought him in.There are quite a lot of negative comments about Murtough that relate to prices and fees. These things fall under the purview of Director of Football Negotiations Matt Hargreaves don't they?
Anyway, from what I've seen it appears as though Ten Hag wanted a couple of years of mass upheaval to get the squad into a position whereby we aren't having to sign 6 players every summer. Once/should we get there, his influence on incoming will likely diminish, since right now he's clearly looking for players who he thinks can adapt quickly.
We've essentially made 3 'squad building' singings and 3 short term ones - maybe 4 and 2 depending on how Amrabat takes. We're obviously behind on where we'd like to be, but with the ownership as it is, I don't think there was much else we could do this summer.
If he was at Liverpool now in a similar role to what he had at Man Utd before getting his current job then he'd have a good shot at it based on who they've hired before. Similarly at Chelsea. Edu at Arsenal's experience before he got the job there can be considered close enough.I wonder which of our rival clubs would consider offering Murtough the position he has at United if they were recruiting. There’s your answer.
Maddison makes no sense when we have Bruno. Mount is a different profile to Maddison. Also same for Ward-Prowse. Just because they're good players doesn't mean they fit what the tactical setup is supposed to be.Should have signed Maddison and Ward-Prowse. I guess they slipped past our scouting network somehow…
If he was at Liverpool now in a similar role to what he had at Man Utd before getting his current job then he'd have a good shot at it based on who they've hired before. Similarly at Chelsea. Edu at Arsenal's experience before he got the job there can be considered close enough.
City got guys in who were more experienced in the roles than any of the clubs above IIRC.
Yeah the Antony deal was awful all through.Let’s hope so, although I’d argue that the wages given to Antony don’t look like a promising step in the right direction. Casemiro’s as well, although I kind of get that given his pedigree.
We've sold more players than that btw.Incomes (in euros):
Højlund 75m
Mount 64,2m
Onana 52,5m
Amrabat 10m loan fee
Bayindir 5m
Evans free
Reguilon free loan
Total spent. 206,7m
8/10 for me. Missed a CB an an experienced striker to be a 10.
Outcomes (in euros)
Henderson 17,5 m
Elanga 17,5m
Fred 9,7m
Kovar 5m
Telles 4,6m
Iqbal 1m
Total income 55,3m
6/10 for me. Failed to get rid of DVB, the fridge, Martial and McTominay.
Total balance: 151,3m spent. Above the reported 100-120m, but not by a lot.
If you want to blame the commercial director and the youth/women's team director for the failings of the first team male football team then sure. Make that makes sense to you.I know on paper it’s pretty ridiculous that Arnold and Murtough who were key allies of Woodward were given the chance to succeed him after years and years of failure. But the key thing is Woodward chose to leave, I’ve no doubt the owners would still have him in charge now so it makes sense he was succeeded by them.
Anyone who believed these two didn’t have some accountability for all the failure and would spearhead huge changes and success was being very naive.
If you want to blame the commercial director and the youth/women's team director for the failings of the first team male football team then sure. Make that makes sense to you.
But the players we have bought never seem to fit into our system, whatever that is, so maybe the time has come simply to buy players based on whether or not they are actually good.Maddison makes no sense when we have Bruno. Mount is a different profile to Maddison. Also same for Ward-Prowse. Just because they're good players doesn't mean they fit what the tactical setup is supposed to be.
Arguably Maddison is a greater fit for what we want than Mount. Maddison is a diligent worker off the ball but is very capable of dropping deep and dictating. And he has a greater range of passing. A younger Eriksen - who we can't control games without.Maddison makes no sense when we have Bruno. Mount is a different profile to Maddison. Also same for Ward-Prowse. Just because they're good players doesn't mean they fit what the tactical setup is supposed to be.
Okay. Good for you.Thanks for proving my point, Richard Arnold hasn’t been the clubs Commercial Director since 2013. Here is what club told us about Murtough when appointed Football Director;
“John will have overall leadership and responsibility for operations and strategy across all football functions, reinforcing the strong foundations already in place. This appointment builds on the work John has already undertaken in recent years, working closely with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and the rest of the football staff to create the structures, processes and culture to deliver sustained success on the pitch. This has included successful overhauls of the club’s Academy and recruitment department”.
Woodward also referred to Murtough helping our with our ‘improved recruitment record’ at the time. If you want to pretend he was just involved with the women’s and youth teams fair enough but it simply isn’t true.
Like I said anyone who believes these guys have no accountability is naive.
Huh? That's what we did for a decade. Your suggestion that is.But the players we have bought never seem to fit into our system, whatever that is, so maybe the time has come simply to buy players based on whether or not they are actually good.
You saw how we played in the first games of the season and concluded that a versatile footballer who's good at the press isn't the profile of player the manager wanted?Arguably Maddison is a greater fit for what we want than Mount. Maddison is a diligent worker off the ball but is very capable of dropping deep and dictating. And he has a greater range of passing. A younger Eriksen - who we can't control games without.
Won't surprise me if this is true. People keep on claiming we don't spend a lot of money, yet we pay 80m and more for the likes of Sancho and Antony while barely selling anyone and even when we does, we never sell for good value.
United's issue isn't the money. It's the managers and club wasting so much money on duds and flops with no clue how to use any of these duds or how to shoehorn them into the lineup. Thus we end up with the likes of Pogba, Sancho, Antony, Maguire and Martial.
United have ton of money but we're idiots when it comes to spending them, and the managers aren't helping either.
Manager should NOT be in charge of transfer, i thought we had DoF now yet in terms of dictating transger we are even in worse situation. Murtough has zero experience, zero expertise, and zero networks, thats why he's overreliance on ETH, that's why he cant sell our deadwoods to Saudi for big money. Seriously all you need to do is to see his CV, does it look good enough for a club of Manchester United stature?
It really depends about which club we are talking about.
You have clubs like Barcelona, Real or Bayern who have always been successful in the past 20-25 years but they've got the best personnel in terms of who runs the club. Whether is the DOF, MOF, board it doesn't really matter. In these cases...yeah the manager is booted without many regrets when the time comes and he may not be in charge of transfers.
Then you have clubs like Chelsea, Liverpool, Milan, City, Man Utd who were more reliant on manager quality and planning rather than board competence. In this cases you have to listen to the manager and give him power, the problems arises when you give power to the wrong manager.
For us, post Ferguson it was a matter of bad decisions upstairs paired with wrong managers, what good could of come out of that?
Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea all have a DoF that the manager answers to in regards to recruitment. They work as a team obviously and more trust is given to the manager in relation to success, but ultimately it’s the DoF that oversees the squad ins and outs. That’s not the case here, hence why we’ve spent a feck load of money on the wrong players and positions over the course of 10 years, and it hasn’t shown any signs of improving under Murtough, if anything the power shift towards the manager is worse than ever. Sancho in Murtough’s first summer, Antony in his second and now Mount, are prime examples of investing huge amounts of cash on the wrong position/player, that wouldn’t have happened if we had a competent DoF.It really depends about which club we are talking about.
You have clubs like Barcelona, Real or Bayern who have always been successful in the past 20-25 years but they've got the best personnel in terms of who runs the club. Whether is the DOF, MOF, board it doesn't really matter. In these cases...yeah the manager is booted without many regrets when the time comes and he may not be in charge of transfers.
Then you have clubs like Chelsea, Liverpool, Milan, City, Man Utd who were more reliant on manager quality and planning rather than board competence. In this cases you have to listen to the manager and give him power, the problems arises when you give power to the wrong manager.
For us, post Ferguson it was a matter of bad decisions upstairs paired with wrong managers, what good could of come out of that?
Now what we are going to do if ETH gets sacked? Repeat all the thing all over again?
Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea all have a DoF that the manager answers to in regards to recruitment. They work as a team obviously and more trust is given to the manager in relation to success, but ultimately it’s the DoF that oversees the squad ins and outs. That’s not the case here, hence why we’ve spent a feck load of money on the wrong players and positions over the course of 10 years, and it hasn’t shown any signs of improving under Murtough, if anything the power shift towards the manager is worse than ever. Sancho in Murtough’s first summer, Antony in his second and now Mount, are prime examples of investing huge amounts of cash on the wrong position/player, that wouldn’t have happened if we had a competent DoF.
Yeah I definitely believe that Guardiola and Klopp have no power in recruitment at all at Liverpool and Man City.Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea all have a DoF that the manager answers to in regards to recruitment. They work as a team obviously and more trust is given to the manager in relation to success, but ultimately it’s the DoF that oversees the squad ins and outs. That’s not the case here, hence why we’ve spent a feck load of money on the wrong players and positions over the course of 10 years, and it hasn’t shown any signs of improving under Murtough, if anything the power shift towards the manager is worse than ever. Sancho in Murtough’s first summer, Antony in his second and now Mount, are prime examples of investing huge amounts of cash on the wrong position/player, that wouldn’t have happened if we had a competent DoF.
Yeah I definitely believe that Guardiola and Klopp have no power in recruitment at all at Liverpool and Man City.
Just because they might be convinced to go after a different player like how the staff at Liverpool convinced Klopp to go after Salah instead, does not mean they do not have veto powers.
I didn’t say they don’t have power, but it’s a healthy balance that has grown over the years through success. Seeing the line of errors Murtough has made he can’t be trusted to oversee recruitment any longer.They work as a team obviously and more trust is given to the manager in relation to success, but ultimately it’s the DoF that oversees the squad ins and outs.
