Moyes To Succeed Ferguson Anyone?

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Cutch said:
And yet in the time that Moyes has been managing Everton in the premiership, 8 English teams have made the Champions league final as opposed to 4 german and 3 spanish. How then is the style of english football any less suited to success in Europe?
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I believe SAF was the only British manager with those sides not so? Therefore, are these 8 english teams you speak of really all playing english football? Besides you assuming each of these teams applied the same type of tactics used in the prem is a bit daft.

It's also quite clear Manchester United probably plays the closest thing to archetypal English football but thanks to SAF, we have always adapted when needed.

I'm pretty sure if Moyes applied the same tactics he used in England, it probably wouldn't work so well. I don't understand how we make these arguments when most of us realise United had to change their 'style' in Europe to be more successful. Other english teams have done the same.
 
How odd that both Moyes and Mourinho are either out of contract or tipped to switch clubs on the same summer - this summer.
 
Cal? said:
C) did he spend 100m at Porto?
D) stepping stone to what exactly? The one club you could argue are a bigger name than United who he's leaving?
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a)Porto..no. But he spent alot at Chelsea, Inter and Real.
b)Mourinho had been in constant move for years. Chelsea, Inter, Real. All these clubs are near/equal to us
 
Things will never be the same without him at the helm, but if he wishes, he would have more than earn the right to

Either way, if he decided to retire, probably the right time for him (not trying to be selfish), the great man needs to enjoy his retirement, probably do whatever he feels like doing (horseracing, golf, gardening, grandkids)

Unless he wanted to keep on managing, he can call it a day without having to prove anything to anyone

And please... not moyes, remember david o'neill?
 
devilish said:
Whose United material? That's a difficult question isn't it?

In my opinion a United Manager should be someone who had won important honors by playing the United way which is mostly based on unearthing/producing young talent. Its pointless getting a manager who

a) had won jack shit
b) played a football style which may suit a middle sized EPL team but would be slaughtered in Europe (ex aim at the big forward head upfront)
c) had won 2 CL but had spend 100m per each cup
d) see a club as a stepping stone to somewhere else

This restricts us to very few names, specifically to Guardiola (he won't come) and Klopp.

I dont think Moyes is shit. However he hasnt proven himself to lead a club like Man United
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That's like cinderella asking for Mother Fairy to go to the ball.

SAF can develop the youth because he got security, he knows he'll be here the next season and five season after, he have that.

Can you imagine the likes of Moyes, or even Mourinho himself coming here and going into barren spell for 5 years to blood the youth? I don't think they'd be given the leeway at this current climate.

So, just to summarize, you want : Trophy, Beautiful Play, Youth

Righto!


PS : Klopp didn't blood youngster, he doesn't have the blank cheque to just buy Ronaldo, and probably it coincides with German golden generation happening to flourish in Dortmund.

Same can be said with Pep, he probably polish Messi and develop Xavi, but Messi and Xavi was not the product of him 100%.

You can only work with what's infront of you, having Managers who emphasises on Youth doesn't guarantee we'll have the class of 92 year in year out. Even the great SAF only manages to unearth one golden generation, and the rest are just competent squad filler to complement a shrewd signing.

You're asking too much, without SAF at the helm, I'm happy to just maintain a League win every 2-3 years to keep our domination. Just a few decades ago the Liverpool side having a transitition from Kenny and the rest is history as we know
 
My moles have yet to pry the truth from Fergie. I guess we'll just have to wait for the press conference.
 
I think the hierarchy have learnt that sticking with your manager reaps dividends!! I reckon they are looking for someone who won't be pissing off again in a few years, someone who has proved a club loyalty, someone who hasn't actually already managed really big clubs but is ripe to do so, someone who generates loyalty with players...etc etc

Moyes does kind of fit that bill....
 
togg said:
I think the hierarchy have learnt that sticking with your manager reaps dividends!! I reckon they are looking for someone who won't be pissing off again in a few years, someone who has proved a club loyalty, someone who hasn't actually already managed really big clubs but is ripe to do so, someone who generates loyalty with players...etc etc

Moyes does kind of fit that bill....
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There's a reason to manager stays for a long time, there's no point if he's staying forever and not delivering

For all we know, Moyes probably got no better offer elsewhere

I'm sure the likes of Madrid, Barcelona, even Dortmund fans are laughing at the prospect of having David Moyes managing them

But hey, he's loyal... so there we go
 
My favourite would be Klopp, or a Giggs and Neville partnership.
 
Sky1981 said:
I'm sure the likes of Madrid, Barcelona, even Dortmund fans are laughing at the prospect of having David Moyes managing them

But hey, he's loyal... so there we go
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And Klopp, Guardiola and Villanova all had amazing managerial pedigree before those clubs appointed them manager.
 
Sultan said:
My favourite would be Klopp, or a Giggs and Neville partnership.
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I'm all up for Neville as assistant manager, he looks tactically astute, but then again he probably stood up among the shite pundits out there, for all we know he might be talking about Managerial Skill 101, same goes for all ex-players, I'm sure they've learnt the tactical aspect well having played the games for 10+ years, but man management wise it'll be a different story.

Haggling over contracts, judging player's attitude and response, dealing with antics, pressure, and stuff.

Klopp have the crowd and media at his side, but whoever succeeds SAF will be under immense scrutiny from day 1
 
I don't know whats worse to be honest SAF leaving or the thought of Moyes being next manager. I really don't want him here, he's nowhere near good enough to manage one of the biggest clubs in the world.
Tottenham or Chelsea would have taken him long ago if that was the case.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
And Klopp, Guardiola and Villanova all had amazing managerial pedigree before those clubs appointed them manager.
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This is Manchester United we're talking about, furthermore the next one will be taking over from Sir Alex Ferguson, having managing United for 26+ years.

Guardiola and Villanova were promoted from inside, they knew how they work, and Klopp as stated above wasn't exactly taking a CL finalist back then.

I'd rather we go unproven route, rather than a proven perenial midtable manager.

It's one thing to take a relegation material into proper midtable, it's another to manage a perenial champion to stay champion.
 
The Glazers would want a big name experienced manager who can continue the success. They cannot afford a settling in period that Moyes would need. When Sir Alex wasn't winning early on the club was structured differently. This club needs to be winning to keep the money coming in. A big drop in fan support, especially abroad would be devastating for the Glazers and possibly the club. Maybe Fergie is worried about Jose going to Chelsea and he is making a move before it actually happens.
 
moyes may be a good manager to build a good team but i have reservation on whether he can turn a good team to a great one or improve performance. everton never breaks into big four. you may argue he does not have the resources but i dont see he has many signings that inspiring chances of breakthrough. at this moment, i cannot see he is the best candidates. too risky to appoint him
 
Sky1981 said:
It's one thing to take a relegation material into proper midtable, it's another to manage a perenial champion to stay champion.
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I would not advocate for Moyes, however, he has always managed to get the maximum out of limited resources. Everton consistently punch above their weight. If he is appointed then I would support that decision.
 
Sky1981 said:
This is Manchester United we're talking about, furthermore the next one will be taking over from Sir Alex Ferguson, having managing United for 26+ years.

Guardiola and Villanova were promoted from inside, they knew how they work, and Klopp as stated above wasn't exactly taking a CL finalist back then.

I'd rather we go unproven route, rather than a proven perenial midtable manager.

It's one thing to take a relegation material into proper midtable, it's another to manage a perenial champion to stay champion.
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True, but I wouldn't want to go down the ex player route, this isn't the job for someone with absolutely no experience. It's been tried before and that was a disaster.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
He doesn't have seemed to have made England any better. We are still threatening to underachieve.
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With Hodgson at the head chosing player? It's amazing that Rio's being considered again, and that's probably due to Neville, there's only so much one can do with England's Golden Shower, even Capello are struggling to get them playing at World Cup level.
 
Sultan said:
My favourite would be Klopp, or a Giggs and Neville partnership.
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Klopp is brilliant and a great character as well, with Pep no longer available part of me wants him as first or second choice along with Moyes.

But I still see Klopp as a bit of risk, really can't predict how it would work out. With Moyes I think the transition would be smoother.
 
Sky1981 said:
With Hodgson at the head chosing player? It's amazing that Rio's being considered again, and that's probably due to Neville, there's only so much one can do with England's Golden Shower, even Capello are struggling to get them playing at World Cup level.
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He got them to the World Cup as a minimum. We should be qualifying from our group without question. That said, I would certainly not be averse to Neville as assistant manager to Moyes ;)
 
DomesticTadpole said:
True, but I wouldn't want to go down the ex player route, this isn't the job for someone with absolutely no experience. It's been tried before and that was a disaster.
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IMHO we'll need ex player for presence, experience, and keeping the moral and virtue for continuation. It's nice to have a through and through United legend infusing the value of United.

But I agree, we'll need someone with reputation, feared, and respected. Any lesser manager will be shred to pieces by the English Media.

The Media have been tamed by SAF, and who they are to nitpick on the living legend, but comes manager of lesser statute, they'll be out like vultures.

Another thing of note is changing room stability, there's no our players won't cause a drama without SAF at the helm. Our changing room have been pretty much stable due to the great man being there, if the likes of Moyes or anyone green coming in there's no guarantee it'll stay the same.

I'd imagine the likes of Nani, Rooney possibly causing dramas too big for the new manager to handle, at least contract wise.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
He got them to the World Cup as a minimum. We should be qualifying from our group without question. That said, I would certainly not be averse to Neville as assistant manager to Moyes ;)
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I've said this many time, but tactic is only a fraction of the challenge.

1. The media pressure will be immense post SAF, they're looking for payback after being proven wrong for 20+ years.
2. Players Ego will also risen post SAF and it'll be hard for lesser manager to handle (cue AVB with Chelsea)
3. Continuation of a legacy - We need to keep on winning at least a few years Post SAF to maintain our domination, or we can easilly fade into mediocrity ala Liverpool.
4. Fans Expectation - Most of us only knew SAF, it'll be hard to predict how we'll react with someone unproven and new
5. SAF is a great man, taking care of all aspect of the team, probably micro managing at one time, it's hard to see new manager given authority to manage everything
6. 26 years of SAF's playing method is ingrained in the team's DNA, it's hard for the new manager to replicate it if its not his way of playing, and it'll be hard for the team to change as well.

There's alot more factor to consider rather than simply appointing the next good guys out there.
 
Moyes certainly won't take any shite from Nani or Rooney acting like dickheads. If Ferguson leaves I think Scholes and Giggs will be given more time with the squad.

I also think the need for European experience is overstated. He'll pick it up. I'm sure he's analysed hundreds of Champions League games in the past and knows what it's all about on the pitch, the rest will come fairly quickly. Moyes is no idiot
 
Sky1981 said:
There's alot more factor to consider rather than simply appointing the next good guys out there.
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I agree with what you are saying. I am sure in my heart that the only man capable succeeding Sir Alex is Jose Mourinho. I think that if SAF is retiring then he will be appointed.
 
It took us years to get rid of the likes of Gibson, Saha, Howard, by hiring Moyes we'll end up with the same lot again plus other mediocre players.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Moyes certainly won't take any shite from Nani or Rooney acting like dickheads. If Ferguson leaves I think Scholes and Giggs will be given more time with the squad.

I also think the need for European experience is overstated. He'll pick it up. I'm sure he's analysed hundreds of Champions League games in the past and knows what it's all about on the pitch, the rest will come fairly quickly. Moyes is no idiot
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:lol:
 
Theon said:
Klopp is brilliant and a great character as well, with Pep no longer available part of me wants him as first or second choice along with Moyes.

But I still see Klopp as a bit of risk, really can't predict how it would work out. With Moyes I think the transition would be smoother.
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Whoever comes in needs to make sure we are still relatively successful. Is moyes the man for that? I'm not particularly sure. The financial side of things demands we remain in the frame. Moyes would have to deliver by the 2nd season or things could get really rocky.

I don't know. Despite what I've read from those who are Moyes, I just don't see it being as that great of an appointment.
 
Nate Dogg said:
It took us years to get rid of the likes of Gibson, Saha, Howard, by hiring Moyes we'll end up with the same lot again plus other mediocre players.
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Yeah haha stupid Moyes he would probably sign Bebe, Obertan, Macheda, Young and Alan Smith or something.
 
Don't want Moyes at all. But it goes without saying that if he's the one they hire, I'll be firmly behind him for at least a couple of seasons. CL qualification is the only condition, for me. The new guy can be given a few seasons before delivering loads of trophies, but in the meantime we must continue to qualify for the CL.
 
Leroy The Red said:
About that, it's 2005, there was no obsession with foreign managers like there is today.
I wouldn't say those are equivalents either, what sets Moyes apart is that he's had sustained success at one club, you've named two managers who've more or less managed a different club every year. Of course you'd find it very hard to find an actual Moyes equivalent.

Fwiw Moyes wouldn't be my first choice, but he's getting a lot of flack here which I don't think he'd get if he was foreign.
I'm sure if AVB was mentioned there'd not be near as many complaints, and is there much ground to say AVB would make a better manager than Moyes?

Someone said this earlier....
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When we were lining up Sir Alex's replacement last time we were talking about Hitzfield, Lippi etc. - this foreign "obsession" has always been there because there aren't any other British managers achieving success in Europe. Martin O'Neill was the best of the lot and he's since shown being the best of the lot is a long way short of being good enough for United.

It'd be very difficult to find an exact Moyes equivalent as generally foreign managers are sacked much more easily. Very few teams would have stuck with Moyes back in 03/04 when he took them to just one place above the relegation zone. He and the club/chairman have a great relationship and the chairman's a patient man - that's got nothing to do with Moyes' managerial capabilities, really.

Joaquín Caparrós managed three teams in the last decade. He won the Division 2 title in his first season then finished 8th, 10th, 6th and 6th. Wasn't a big success at Deportivo but wasn't a failure either as his 8th-placed finish has only been improved on once since he left. He took over a Bilbao side that had just finished 1 point above the relegation zone and kept them in and around the Europa League places until he achieved their second highest league finish in the last decade. Got to the final of a Spanish Cup too. They replaced him just a few weeks after finishing 6th and that's where Moyes is lucky that he has a chairman that backs him all the way. I don't think what Moyes has achieved is any more impressive, personally.

And yeah, I think almost any manager that's won a treble (inc. European success) would be preferred over Moyes for a lot of people. Nothing to do with being foreign. Might have something to do with him having the "new Mourinho" reputation that makes him seem more appealing than he is but it's not because he's foreign.
 
I must say that I am leaning towards #TeamKlopp , but I do appreciate that is probably a bit short-sighted. He hasn't had a long history of achievements. That said, the question is, do we want him to have that long history of achievement elsewhere, or do we want him to have that history at Old Trafford? There is an element of taking a chance as he could be a flash in the pan, but then again if he is the real thing, then we'd want him now.

I am just a bit conscious of a potential Paul Le Guen situation.
 
Brwned said:
When we were lining up Sir Alex's replacement last time we were talking about Hitzfield, Lippi etc. - this foreign "obsession" has always been there because there aren't any other British managers achieving success in Europe. Martin O'Neill was the best of the lot and he's since shown being the best of the lot is a long way short of being good enough for United.

It'd be very difficult to find an exact Moyes equivalent as generally foreign managers are sacked much more easily. Very few teams would have stuck with Moyes back in 03/04 when he took them to just one place above the relegation zone. He and the club/chairman have a great relationship and the chairman's a patient man - that's got nothing to do with Moyes' managerial capabilities, really.

Joaquín Caparrós managed three teams in the last decade. He won the Division 2 title in his first season then finished 8th, 10th, 6th and 6th. Wasn't a big success at Deportivo but wasn't a failure either as his 8th-placed finish has only been improved on once since he left. He took over a Bilbao side that had just finished 1 point above the relegation zone and kept them in and around the Europa League places until he achieved their second highest league finish in the last decade. Got to the final of a Spanish Cup too. They replaced him just a few weeks after finishing 6th and that's where Moyes is lucky that he has a chairman that backs him all the way. I don't think what Moyes has achieved is any more impressive, personally.
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So you don't consider the fact that Moyes has rebuilt teams instead of just buggering off impressive? I don't want him here myself but he is clearly an excellent manager, consistent, capable of consistently having to rebuild sides and he very very rarely let's Everton be geniunly embarrassed.
 
Would you expect the new manager to overtake all of Ferguson's tasks within the club? Usually in germany the manager (Klopp) is more a coach with less involvement in the financial part of the business for example. If you want to bring in Klopp, the club needs a few changes in the structure at first to make it work, imo.

Though I doubt, Klopp would switch clubs instantly (quit in June/start in July). Most likely, if he takes a job at a big club abroad, he will take some time off after he feels he's done with Dortmund, then sign a new contract early on and start learning what's necessary for the new job - language, financial knowledge, background knowledge about the club, etc. Being well prepared before he actually starts at his new club will help being successful from the get-go. If he comes to United he's planning on staying for a while and he won't risk it by rushing the move.
 
paceme said:
So you don't consider the fact that Moyes has rebuilt teams instead of just buggering off impressive? I don't want him here myself but he is clearly an excellent manager, consistent, capable of consistently having to rebuild sides and he very very rarely let's Everton be geniunly embarrassed.
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Indeed.

Plus he runs all football matters like SAF at Everton. Many of Those other managers need a sporting director plus are short term operators.
 
Brwned said:
When we were lining up Sir Alex's replacement last time we were talking about Hitzfield, Lippi etc. - this foreign "obsession" has always been there because there aren't any other British managers achieving success in Europe. Martin O'Neill was the best of the lot and he's since shown being the best of the lot is a long way short of being good enough for United.
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And Sven was the flavor of the day + Favorite to take over. He was since sacked by Leicester.
 
Cevno said:
And Sven was the flavor of the day + Favorite to take over. He was since sacked by Leicester.
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God, we all remember the Keane, Hughes and Bruce speculation years ago. Would be awful for a legendary ex-player to come back as manager, feck it up and tarnish his legacy at the club.
 
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