They're not going to win the league and they weren't going to get relegated either. On quite a few occasions they failed to get to or past the group stages.
Anyway he is currently odds-on to be the next manager.
Moyes To Succeed Ferguson Anyone?
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They're not going to win the league and they weren't going to get relegated either. On quite a few occasions they failed to get to or past the group stages.
Anyway he is currently odds-on to be the next manager.
No it's not!
I disagree. As Elvis has pointed out, Mourinho had strong European experience before he came to Chelsea and was the best manager in England for a short period. Europe is difficult to master, just ask City and us for a long time in the 90s. It takes people out of their comfort zones and managers have to adapt.
I know the Chelsea examples you pull up happened but under Grant they had a strong unit left behind by Mourinho and last year was a crazy situation given they finished 6th. So it is probably vital when you want to manage expectations both home and abroad which what the United manager will have to do. We've never favoured one over the other completely.
How is it not?
Not much between Moyes and Mourinho now, he was a heavy favourite before
I meant as in having some managerial experience and a good consistent record in the league is mainstay of the CV. European experience though important is not a must. If we are a good team in the league, we will go on decent runs in Europe anyway as we even did under SAF.
Really only Mancini is the exception to this rule and that's because he likes to manage his squad in a strange sort of way and dynamic. Look at Dortmund from last 2 years and now they are making a good European run.
There are way more good cup managers like Benitez that don't have equal consistency for the League than Vice Versa. And as for the last part that is really not based on anything substantial tbh. Moyes hasn't been involved in any European competition with a large enough squad.
Moyes is the heavy favourite. Mourinho is a distant 2nd if the betting odds are anything to go by.
I would be disappointed in the club's ambition if we went with Moyes personally, so fingers doubly crossed Fergie isn't leaving.
Are you sure? betfair has them quite close from what I can see
edit - yeah he's not even odds on now, when he was a few hours ago
edit - yeah he's not even odds on now, when he was a few hours ago
Because of facts.
Actually could be wrong, I was looking a paddypower couple of hours ago. So it's not based on a whole lot.
Yehh betfair keep updating.
What's crazy is that Wenger is 227/1, way behind the likes of Redknapp. Thought he would be in the mix
Definitely changing fast, I swear Mourinho was as high 25/1 about 4 hours ago.
See there's 5 names right there the club should take a look at before giving it a European nobody like Moyes.
Then there's Klopp, Pelligrini, Heynckes, Ancelotti etc.
I'd prefer Moyes to Wenger. I have my reasons, though I don't expect anyone to agree with me.
Yeah so would I mate
But I think those odds are daft, I mean Roberto Martinez is 56/1 and Wenger is 227/1
Yeah, don't want those 2/3 year tacticians who need a sporting director. And even Di Matteo is a European somebody.
Klopp would be my choice followed by Moyes. If we are thinking safe and short term then Mourinho is obvious.
We should hire a team of Ole, Giggs, Scholes, Neville and Cantona.
Wait, what? Dortmund was a top job?
Dortmund in 2008 was widely seen as a hot seat for a coach, having had 3 coaches in the last two years. They were still very tight from a financial stand point and have fallen to the 14th place of the Bundesliga with the worst defense of the whole league. They were top only from one perspective and this was fan support.
The two important things Klopp got in Dortmund were complete trust of the officials (as long as they did not get relegated) and time. He used these two factors to transform a mid table team to the only real rival the leagues top dog Bayern Munich had since the 90´s (which was ironically Dortmund itself). He changed pretty much everything at the club, beginning with tactics over scouting to the youth development. He gave the club a whole new idenity.
I would still have my doubts for Klopp being an ideal successor for SAF. He is simply not the type of guy who mainly follows into someones foot steps. If he will leave Dortmund, he will change integral things everywhere he goes.
The question is, if the officials and fans are willing to give him the time to make these changes.
It's not even a case of giving him the 'time' to make integral changes, more that we don't need to.
The structure at United is fantastic, if Klopp is the type of manager who wants to change things like you say, then that isn't needed here and will only cause unnecessary instability.
The structure at United is fantastic, if Klopp is the type of manager who wants to change things like you say, then that isn't needed here and will only cause unnecessary instability.
Isn't Heynekes retiring at the end of the season? But I agree Mou, Pep and Klopp have to be considered first even before Pelligrini and a few others.
If we're really looking to be ambitious then I don't think we should appoint Moyes. Realistically, it will take him time to settle in and he's going to have to adjust to managing a bigger squad where every single game is under the microscope. It's a big jump from Everton to Manchester United. He's not the worst appointment but I would really feel sorry for him taking so soon after Fergie. It would be a poisoned chalice and just an enormous amount of pressure.
If we're just looking for a replacement to keep us steady and relatively competitive, then perhaps Moyes is your man. Nonetheless, this situation shows how hard it is to find the right replacement. You can make all sorts of arguments for various candidates depending on your focus. I don't think the "no European experience is okay" really works for Moyes though. From a tactical point of view, it's a pretty big ask and look how it took someone like Fergie who already had European experience before coming here some time to adjust to the nature of CL football. For all the managers Leroy mentioned, they're all known for their tactical nou Klopp has done well in Europe because he's changed his tactics accordingly but due to Dortmund's lack of squad depth they haven't been able to sustain their league form compared to their two previous Bundesliga campaigns. I dont see Moyes as much of a tactician in the same way as Klopp. It's actually ridiculous how quickly he has adapted his side to European football. Especially for one so inexperienced. I dont think we should Klopp, Guardiola or Mourinho as grounds for saying Moyes can necessarily do the same. I have nothing against Moyes, but nothing I have seen him do from a tactical standpoint makes me think he could adjust quite so easily as the ones mentioned. I honestly think he'll need more time.
Every path for a manager is different. Some need a fair amount of CL experience to really get a handle on how to manage a squad in Europe. Others don't. There's no real precedent stating it goes either way. Although in my opinion, the norm is for a manager to get some European experience It's part of the beauty of the game.
If we're actually going to be serious about discussing these managerial candidates, we'll have to be a bit more precise with describing each candidate's credentials and what they really mean.
I would like to say more but my time is constrained. Good night folks.
If we're just looking for a replacement to keep us steady and relatively competitive, then perhaps Moyes is your man. Nonetheless, this situation shows how hard it is to find the right replacement. You can make all sorts of arguments for various candidates depending on your focus. I don't think the "no European experience is okay" really works for Moyes though. From a tactical point of view, it's a pretty big ask and look how it took someone like Fergie who already had European experience before coming here some time to adjust to the nature of CL football. For all the managers Leroy mentioned, they're all known for their tactical nou Klopp has done well in Europe because he's changed his tactics accordingly but due to Dortmund's lack of squad depth they haven't been able to sustain their league form compared to their two previous Bundesliga campaigns. I dont see Moyes as much of a tactician in the same way as Klopp. It's actually ridiculous how quickly he has adapted his side to European football. Especially for one so inexperienced. I dont think we should Klopp, Guardiola or Mourinho as grounds for saying Moyes can necessarily do the same. I have nothing against Moyes, but nothing I have seen him do from a tactical standpoint makes me think he could adjust quite so easily as the ones mentioned. I honestly think he'll need more time.
Every path for a manager is different. Some need a fair amount of CL experience to really get a handle on how to manage a squad in Europe. Others don't. There's no real precedent stating it goes either way. Although in my opinion, the norm is for a manager to get some European experience It's part of the beauty of the game.
If we're actually going to be serious about discussing these managerial candidates, we'll have to be a bit more precise with describing each candidate's credentials and what they really mean.
I would like to say more but my time is constrained. Good night folks.
How can we really 'consider' Guardiola considering he's set to start his tenure with Bayern this summer?
Because everyone's gone mental, that's why.
I can't see past Moyes. I don't think Klopp will move yet, Mourinho is surely on the way to Chelsea and the likes of Van Gaal, Hiddink all feel like they're winding down their careers when you contemplate what's needed to take over here.
Mourinho makes me uneasy. I like him but everything he does has me on edge. The levels of intensity that he has created at Madrid makes it seem like the club is verging on a meltdown. Ferguson has instilled that desire to win constantly here too, but the way he's gone about it is different. A much calmer and measured approach. Mourinho has me feeling every day is a massive war, I don't know how long you can keep that up.
Moyes is uninspiring but I like his personality. He's tough and durable, like his leathery face and his accent may convince some of the slower players in the team that it is still actually Ferguson. I can't think of any other positives for him.
Someone like Solskjaer would delight me from a personal perspective, but its almost certainly far too soon and too big to handle. Not to mention he doesn't have 1/10th the credentials Moyes has, let alone Mourinho. I think we could be getting some form of double act, or the manager will seek a "bigger" number 2 than Ferguson ever had. The job is just too big to handle in this age for mere mortals. The tv, the money, the dickhead players, the worldwide standing of the game, the media intrusion etc etc. I feel like crying.
Mourinho makes me uneasy. I like him but everything he does has me on edge. The levels of intensity that he has created at Madrid makes it seem like the club is verging on a meltdown. Ferguson has instilled that desire to win constantly here too, but the way he's gone about it is different. A much calmer and measured approach. Mourinho has me feeling every day is a massive war, I don't know how long you can keep that up.
Moyes is uninspiring but I like his personality. He's tough and durable, like his leathery face and his accent may convince some of the slower players in the team that it is still actually Ferguson. I can't think of any other positives for him.
Someone like Solskjaer would delight me from a personal perspective, but its almost certainly far too soon and too big to handle. Not to mention he doesn't have 1/10th the credentials Moyes has, let alone Mourinho. I think we could be getting some form of double act, or the manager will seek a "bigger" number 2 than Ferguson ever had. The job is just too big to handle in this age for mere mortals. The tv, the money, the dickhead players, the worldwide standing of the game, the media intrusion etc etc. I feel like crying.
I am quite sure that an experienced tactician who had lead sides against the likes of Bayern and Barcelona would handle a game against the likes of West Ham and Bolton.
Moyes would only makes sense if he was first an assistant, learning how its done in Europe.
For me Mourinho or Klopp are the men.
For me Mourinho or Klopp are the men.
There would have been the same outrage if the next United manager is Stramaccioni or Valverde. The reason being...they haven't won jack shit.
Moyes needs a bigger job than Everton and a smaller job than United to bridge the gap and show he is capable, yeah he has done well got a team settled as mid table but has never been able to get that club to go a step further and win a cup as managers of smaller clubs have or even get his team motivated to win the biggest match, for example never winning at Anfield in 10 years despite some poor Liverpool sides in that time.
He's a good experienced manager, he'll pick it up. Guardiola had no European football management experience and won the champions league in his first season. It hasn't taken Klopp too long to get the hang of it too.
Whose United material? That's a difficult question isn't it?
In my opinion a United Manager should be someone who had won important honors by playing the United way which is mostly based on unearthing/producing young talent. Its pointless getting a manager who
a) had won jack shit
b) played a football style which may suit a middle sized EPL team but would be slaughtered in Europe (ex aim at the big forward head upfront)
c) had won 2 CL but had spend 100m per each cup
d) see a club as a stepping stone to somewhere else
This restricts us to very few names, specifically to Guardiola (he won't come) and Klopp.
I dont think Moyes is shit. However he hasnt proven himself to lead a club like Man United
Are they the norm or exceptional cases? They are several factors which need to go your way if you're even going to have a chance to succeed so quickly. Being an adept and flexible tactician is one of them.
Agree, Moyes could either sink or swim but i wouldn't count lack of european experience against him as everyones got to start somewhere.
They are both managers who were bred in a football, which is geared towards continental football, thus making the transition from local to European football easier.
In all seriousness, I'll support whoever Fergie names as his successor.
That said, I still believe Fergie will stick it out one more season. Why would he leave with Ronaldo coming back home?
That said, I still believe Fergie will stick it out one more season. Why would he leave with Ronaldo coming back home?
Ronaldo bringing Mourinho with him perhaps...
And yet in the time that Moyes has been managing Everton in the premiership, 8 English teams have made the Champions league final as opposed to 4 german and 3 spanish. How then is the style of english football any less suited to success in Europe?
SAF is a genius + nearly all top sides in the EPL are/were lead by foreigners.
If we take SAF out of the equation, who was the last British manager who won the CL final as a manager? When was the last time a British manager had won the WC or the Euros? How the British faring in WC, Euros etc? Who was the last British manager winning the EPL?
I do because of his background and the fact he would be taking over at such a big club. Historically, Dortmund are somewhat of a big club but not top tier. Klopp had since 2008 to mold the side in the way he wanted. That much is obvious. We already know Moyes won't get the time of day because it's Manchester United. So he's already at a disadvantage compared to his European counterparts. People use Guardiola as an example when he walked to a setup he already knew. Moyes isn't doing that!
The other question Moyes has to invariably answer is how is he going to move this team forward? He doesn't strike me as a manager who just adjusts with the times but simply tries to maximise his resources. Maybe that will be enough, but we won't really know for sure. I think he would do a decent job but honestly, I think the gap is just too big for him at this moment in time. Unless he's Fergie's personal favorite, I dont see him as someone the board would initially go for. Remember when we approached Sven Goran Eriksson for the United job?
Let's hope we don't do that again!
You think some of our players would be more interested in listening than the Chelsea ones? I'm sure we have some big egos too. AVB has done feck all to suggest that he is a top manager. I'd also be wary of Klopp, never managed under big pressure, very little European experience (one campaign getting to the final, especially when the previous was abysmal, is not good enough really). I think we will go with someone very experienced. What's Rijkaard doing?
C) did he spend 100m at Porto?
D) stepping stone to what exactly? The one club you could argue are a bigger name than United who he's leaving?
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