The trouble for who ever takes over is that fans will expect them to win the Champions league in their first experience. The Utd job is in some ways going to be an almost impossible task. Fan expectation is way ahead of reality.
Moyes To Succeed Ferguson Anyone?
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The big reason to go with Moyes over Mourinho is the backroom staff side of things. We have some absolutely superb coaches and what not that have been built up over Fergie's reign. Jose seems to like bringing a bit of an entourage with him, whereas I could see Moyes working with what we have.
But, I can't help feel that the Special One is the only with an ego large enough to fill the void left by SAF.
But, I can't help feel that the Special One is the only with an ego large enough to fill the void left by SAF.
Of the active managers the managers with the highest win percentage are;
1. Guardiola(71.8%)
2. Mourinho(67.1%)
3. Van Gaal(61.7%)
4. Del Bosque(58.3%)
5. Hiddink(57.7%)
6. Sir Alex Ferguson(57.5%)
What?!? Would people really expect a manager with no European experience to win a CL in his first season? What the actual feck! If Mourinho came, it would be a completely different story, would it not?
What you're saying is basically another reason why this may be a bit too soon for Moyes in that second to last sentence.
That isn't going to happen, whether it's Jose or Moyes we are going to struggle at first but over time things should get better.
I didnt even mention Moyes, I wasnt even thinking about him. It was a general thought.
Who ever takes over will have to deal with unrealistic expectations.
On the debate over foreign managers, the ones linked with United generally are better than the home grown managers. We get linked with the cream of a much larger crop of overseas managers, there's not much choice in the UK.
It's again why managers of mid-table clubs if they can't find no room above, should go abroad and enhance their reputation. Moyes stuck it out with Everton for way too long in my view.
It's again why managers of mid-table clubs if they can't find no room above, should go abroad and enhance their reputation. Moyes stuck it out with Everton for way too long in my view.
The main expectation should be to compete for the league (and not compete in an Arsenal kind of way). Europe takes time for any team as both Chelsea and City have found out.
Just out of interest, when was the last time an English man won the premier league or in Europe?
Or a Brit other than SAF?
Or a Brit other than SAF?
I dont get this idea that being united manager is nigh on impossible, the theory is that its going to be impossie for the new manager to live up to the expectations of the fans and to step out of the shadow of the great man
I think its an easy job for the next boss, nobody will ever live up to Alex Ferguson and what hes achieved at united, the fans know this, the board know this, so theres alot less expectation (and pressure) to win everything in sight
I think its an easy job for the next boss, nobody will ever live up to Alex Ferguson and what hes achieved at united, the fans know this, the board know this, so theres alot less expectation (and pressure) to win everything in sight
I'd have to think not having to wait on Landon Donovan to come on loan in January to save your season every year would be one hell of a comforting feeling for Moyes.
But then I remember the Glazers.
The expectation doesn't stop the pressure. Everyone is watching your every move and comparing to when we had SAF. How many managers would like that kind of pressure? It's anything but an easy job. Look at how we managed without Sir Matt!!!
Clough? anyone after him?
This comment seems to crop up all the time. What do you mean by having an ego big enough to follow Ferguson? Why is having a big ego necessary or desireable?
I mean why would it be less attractive to bring in a manager who shows some humility, for example respecting the way United run things, be it training, scouting, coaching personnel, youth development etc. That's what I'm hoping for when Fergie goes so that the transition is as comfortable as possible, but those aren't the behaviours you associate with a huge ego.
Well Dalglish won the Prem didn't he.
Within the English league, the last English winner was the great Howard Wilkinson. The last Brit to win was obviously Kop King Kenny.
Howard Wilkinson with Leeds.
In fairness, Mourinho is also pretty strong in all those things you've mentioned. The big ego is just an added bonus. We would need a strong manager, someone who isn't afraid of Ferguson's shadow.
I don't think he's as strong as Ferguson in any of those respects.
Obviously we can't can't comment on training because we see very little, but nothing Mourinho has done at Chelsea, Inter or Madrid makes me think he has half as good a youth development or scouting system. In terms of backroom staff then again its hard to say, but our coaches seem fantastic to me and I wouldn't want to see it changed with new staff brought in. You end up destabilising the whole backbone of the club, which Fergie has spent decades building.
His coaching staff seems pretty good, has already produced one top flight European manager and someone who has a stronger pedigree than Moyes in AVB.
Tactics wise he is ahead of Ferguson for me no doubt.
Scouting is a bit subjective, can't really speak of Chelsea, Inter or Madrid as it was beyond his control. But Fergie's made as many duff buys as Mourinho has in recent years so again it is pretty subjective.
Whichever manager comes in will bring his own personnel. The big losers in managerial changes tend to be the existing staff. I can't see Phelan or Meulensteen leaving though unless they got a senior role elsewhere.
The Spanish equivalent of David Moyes is someone like Ernesto Valverde or Joaquín Caparrós but if we were linked with them people wouldn't even complain, they'd simply not even acknowledge it. Moyes just shouldn't be an option. Look at the first page of this thread and you'll see another young manager getting the same kind of praise - Martin O'Neill. Look how that turned out. I know people see the football we plays as unsophisticated but they take that to a whole new level, have little to no experience of managing superstars and (in Moyes' case) have no experience of winning a title. Showing he can do a good job in a Premier League team is the only thing he has going for him and that's never going to be enough to convince us to go for him.
I don't think either Moyes or O'Neill are young. In any other sphere they'd be considered to be knocking on a bit.
Pretty spot on for me.
Think it would be a replay of a Hodgson-Scousers saga. A completely different ballgame!
Hope we get Jose for 2 years and then Pep to take over permanently.
Hope we get Jose for 2 years and then Pep to take over permanently.
Moyes is 50. Not that old for a manager. Martin O neill is 61 
That can't be right!
That can't be right!That would suit me fine. People complain about Mourinho not being in for the long haul, I wouldn't want him here long term to be honest. Take him for a few years and then hopefully Ole is ready. It will be easier for someone to take over from someone like Mourinho than it is to take over directly from Fergie.
I really dislike this idea. The only way appointing Mou would work is if he wanted to settle down and create a dynasty ala Fergie.
Just bringing him in for 2 years would make me worry about the state he'd leave the club in.
"The only way" is very definitive. There are a number of ways a manager can succeed at a club and nowadays you don't need to create a dynasty of any sort to succeed as only a few clubs can really challenge for the league (just 3 really in England).
Mourinho would take this job in a heartbeat over the Chelsea one. This is the one he's wanted for a while and it's not been available for 27 years.
I wouldn't read anything into Villas Boas and don't even consider it relevant. Coaching is difficult to assess from the outside, but based on our record of developing players I wouldn't be in a rush to dismiss the current United staff to bring in Mourinho's. I don't want to judge him too harshly because we have so little to go off, but players like Di Maria haven't developed under Mourinho to the extent they should have and similarly at Chelsea he spent big money on young players like Wright-Phillips or Mikel and never brought them on. You could say the same about Anderson, but in general Ferguson has a terrific record with developing players.
Tactics wise we disagree, I don't think he's ahead of Ferguson at all. Why do you think that?
Scouting is probably the least subjective of the comparisons, we can see based on their transfers how diverse their scouting networks are and their abilities to spot a good deal. In this respect Ferguson and United are possibly the best in the business, Rafael, Smalling, Hernandez etc were all shrewd transfers. Even the ones that weren't great finds like De Gea or Jones, who everyone knew about, seem to fit the ethos of the club.
Disagree on Fergie making duff buys in recent years as well. In the past three seasons the only bad buy was Young as he was clearly overpriced, but besides that his transfers have been excellent. De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Hernandez, Powell, Kagawa, Van Persie.. Seem fine to me. Mourinho in the saem period pissed €30million of Coentrao, at least another €30million on Di Maria and then brought in Sahin, Altintop and Pedro Leon and never played them. He has more duff buys than Ferguson in recent years.
I have absolutely no doubt Mourinho would be sucessful at the club. My concern would be what would follow if it was an appointment made only for the short term.
About that, it's 2005, there was no obsession with foreign managers like there is today.
I wouldn't say those are equivalents either, what sets Moyes apart is that he's had sustained success at one club, you've named two managers who've more or less managed a different club every year. Of course you'd find it very hard to find an actual Moyes equivalent.
Fwiw Moyes wouldn't be my first choice, but he's getting a lot of flack here which I don't think he'd get if he was foreign.
I'm sure if AVB was mentioned there'd not be near as many complaints, and is there much ground to say AVB would make a better manager than Moyes?
Someone said this earlier....
Cheers Brwned! I can't stand the comments like that, why we want a foreigner, if Moyes was Spanish blah blah blah.
The last British manager who won the EPL and is not called Sir Alex Ferguson is Kenny Dalglish in 1995. The last one before him was Howard Wilkinson in 1992. From the famous big four team's managers only SAF was British. Now from the five teams that are competing for UCL, only SAF is British. There is an excellent reason that the majority of Caf is not liking the idea of a British manager, not that we are anti British (in fact I think that the majority here are British), but because there aren't a lot of good British managers available.
Moyes has shown that he can do a good job in a mid table team. Can he win a Premier League? Can he challenge in Europe? Can he deal with many superstars? Is he good enough in media wars? It's hard to know, but there is nothing to suggest that he can do it. He has 0 trophies and has minimal experience in Europe. He has 0 experience in UCL. There are a lot of good reasons why people here are more found of idea to have Mourinho, Pep, Ancelotti, Klopp etc as manager than Moyes. That has nothing to do with his name not being fancy enough, nothing to do with his nationality. All it has to do is about his experience and supposedly his quality.
I like Moyes a lot, but I am not sure if he is the right person. Comparing him to the like of Pep, Mourinho and Klopp is absolute nonsense.
AVB has won a four trophies in Portuguese league in his first year there. During that year he was unbeaten and made the record points.
AVB does have a stronger pedigree than Moyes at least when you factor in the rest of the world. Just in England though, then no probably not.
If we were looking to bring in AVB it would draw a lot of complaints and a lot of grievances like why he did fail at Chelsea etc. I imagine we would get more complaints to be honest as AVB has failed somewhere (although I think it was a job too soon for him at the age of 34). See below for example of complaints we would get:
If we were looking to bring in AVB it would draw a lot of complaints and a lot of grievances like why he did fail at Chelsea etc. I imagine we would get more complaints to be honest as AVB has failed somewhere (although I think it was a job too soon for him at the age of 34). See below for example of complaints we would get:
Spot on, Moyes not having a fancy foreign name has nothing to do with a lot of United fans not wanting him as manager.
And then was a disaster at Chelsea.
Was a disaster because a lot of big egos there didn't liked the idea that he was going to replace them. And hell, who can work with Abramovich.
At-least he has worked before with superstars, unlike Moyes whose only big name has been a 17 years old kid.
Saying that, has someone said that they want AVB as manager? I don't think so. Anyway, I think that he has shown more than Moyes.
The biggest thing against Moyes isn't that he hasn't won any trophies or his style of football (which isn't as bad as some make out). It's that he has ZERO experience of Champions League football.
That's why Moyes will not suceed Fergie and that's probably why he'll leave Everton in the Summer.
That's why Moyes will not suceed Fergie and that's probably why he'll leave Everton in the Summer.
Oliver Holt @OllieHolt22 4m
Bit of information re:Moyes. He spent several hours in meetings today poring over Everton transfer targets for next season.
Bit of information re:Moyes. He spent several hours in meetings today poring over Everton transfer targets for next season.
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