What the feck is this lunacy? Seriously, I'm perplexed.
He's just posted the stats of wages and net spend for Everton and they consistently overachieve. Of course they have competition in the 5-10th range... I mean what the feck does that even mean.
Moyes To Succeed Ferguson Anyone?
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What the feck is this lunacy? Seriously, I'm perplexed.
He's just posted the stats of wages and net spend for Everton and they consistently overachieve. Of course they have competition in the 5-10th range... I mean what the feck does that even mean.
Precisely, that's the key point. Plenty of managers can overachieve, but hardly any can maintain it in the way Moyes has.
I know. I said before could you imagine RAWK if they sacked Kenny and hired Moyes.
What's more bizarre than the concept of him managing Liverpool is the notion that him not doing so is somehow an indicator of how average he is. I mean, what the actual feck.
I mean the manager who went a whole season unbeaten and won a treble in 2010/11.
Yeah really don't know why it's being touted as a move he could actually make.
With Porto, in Portugal. One season.
Then got sacked by Chelsea after a miserable spell.
But then you prefer Di Matteo and he's been sacked twice, having only managed for three years.
This is funny.
You're assuming though that he wanted to go to Spurs and didn't get it, or that they didn't consider him. We don't know whether they did or didn't. But we can judge him on his time at Everton where he has consistently exceeded expectations.
That was definitely an achievement but you need to look at the context. That Porto team was incredibly good, Falcao almost scored a goal per game with 39 in 42.
He did really well but it was with a good side and it's just one season. His disaster at Chelsea has just as much relevance in assessing how good he is as that one season at Porto.
He's finished 4th once, but has always finished 11th and 17th with no silverware - absolutely nothing to show during his decade. At least Joe Royle got them the FA Cup when he was there. At the end of the day one can't argue with results.
Point still stands, getting the right manager and giving him significant backing is a pretty huge IF.
But at the end of the day you can only piss with the cock you have got. With the funds available to him when even stoke are dropping bigger money than you on players he has done well.
Has he had the financial backing to do more then that? You can't compare to the past because the game has drastically changed since then. I'm not sure what you mean by saying he's always finished 11th and 17th.
Fair enough, but that doesn't mean he's good enough to manage us. He's a good manager, but certainly not world class.
Can we afford to take on a man who looks like Gollum ?
I said he finished 11th and 17th on past occasions, which must be factored into the discussion if his 4th place finish is to be touted.
As for financial backing - how much did Mourinho have at Porto, or Benitez at Valencia, or Wolfsburg, or any of the not so big clubs who have managed to overachieve over the years.
That's true but he was a young manager then, he's improved a lot since then.
I've never said Mourinho hasn't over achieved before or Benitez, that said in the case of Benitez I would say he got a massive slice of luck in his CL win with liverpool, as did Di Matteo with Chelsea, sometimes that happens, Grant getting Chelsea to a CL final doesn't make him a great manager. Even Mourinho's porto got a big slice of luck with the goal that we should have had.
Either way those not so big clubs were still in much better positions than Everton to challenge for stuff. Anyway I've not said Moyes has been perfect in his time at Everton, I'm sure he would have liked to have done better in the cups, but he's still done a very good job, just like Fergie has done an amazing job despite only winning 2 CL trophies in like 20 years.
Be my guest
On average over the last five years Everton have been the 13th biggest net spenders in the Premier League, yet Moyes regularly has them finish between 5th and 8th in the League table. The fact that you expect Everton to finish where they do is testament to the excellent job Moyes has been doing there for the last ten years, because by rights they shouldn't be getting into the top half of the table, let alone anywhere near the top four.
Spot on.
But he hasn't won a champions league as a manager so he's not fit to clean DiMatteo's boots.
Disaster at chelsea???
Check every chelsea forum, they'd crying for him to come back
Disaster, lol. He created the blueprint for Chelsea's 6th manager after him.
LOL!
Seriously, you call his stint at Chelsea disasterous??
Disaster at chelsea???
Check every chelsea forum, they'd crying for him to come back
Disaster, lol. He created the blueprint for Chelsea's 6th manager after him.
LOL!
Seriously, you call his stint at Chelsea disasterous??
Villas-Boas you fecking retard.
I'm pretty sure he's talking about AVB, not Mourinho.
So. by some of yous definition
A Manager who finishes 5-10th year in year out = overachieving
A Manager who manages to win Leagues in 4 different country, 2 EC with 2 different Teams, and a Historical Treble = average
Oh dear....
Again guys, I have nothing against Moyes, although I do fancy Mourinho.
Let's not make a RAWKISH claim and distort reality that Moyes>>>Mourinho, You can say you think Moyes is gonna be good, classy, decent, and probably you'd prefer him over Mourinho for whatever reason.
But to say Moyes>Mourinho at this point of time is comical. At least when RAWK claims Pennant>Ronaldo it is yet to be proven.
A Manager who finishes 5-10th year in year out = overachieving
A Manager who manages to win Leagues in 4 different country, 2 EC with 2 different Teams, and a Historical Treble = average
Oh dear....
Again guys, I have nothing against Moyes, although I do fancy Mourinho.
Let's not make a RAWKISH claim and distort reality that Moyes>>>Mourinho, You can say you think Moyes is gonna be good, classy, decent, and probably you'd prefer him over Mourinho for whatever reason.
But to say Moyes>Mourinho at this point of time is comical. At least when RAWK claims Pennant>Ronaldo it is yet to be proven.
Oh. My bad
That was a bit of an OTT response, sorry Sky.
Look Cider
I have never undermine Moyes, We can all safely assume that nobody in Redcafe diminishes what he does with Everton, he's doing a good job, overachieving, and continually punching above their weight.
What I'm trying to point out is that he doesn't have the credibility to manage the biggest job in football history (specially after 26 years of SAF)
Again, he could have done better than SAF should he succeeded SAF , who knows. But I'm not wrong when I say he's pale in comparison with Jose fecking Mourinho at least untill this point of time.
Let's make a clear cut difference between what could have been and Facts.
The fact remains Mourinho > Moyes.
The way people trying to paint moyes as better than Mourinho and diminishes his achievement as some sort of lucky, choosing the right time, and by spending large is very Rawkish.
It's time to accept the fact that Mourinho > Moyes. Which one more suitable for United is debateable.
and suitable doesn't always means better CV wise.
Well the difference is one guy is doing that with a team that is spending less than his position would seemingly require whilst the other is continually spending big sums that match or probably exceed what other comparable clubs are spending.
But either way no one has said that Moyes is better than Mourinho, I haven't, don't think Theon has. The point we're making is that yes of course Mourinho is a prime contender, perhaps the number 1 choice, and rightly so, but to disregard Moyes completely and not acknowledge that he's proven himself to be an excellent manager, which again is something his peers in Britain seem to believe isn't right. He might not be number 1 choice or even 2nd, but to say he shouldn't be in contention at all is going to far imo.
I don't think anyone is claiming Moyes to be the better manager, rather that he's the more suitable replacement to SAF. No ones really writing off Mourinho's achievements either, rather you're writing off what Moyes has done.
Then we're all in agreement
In response to the original OP : Nope, I would prefer Mourinho, Klopp, Pep, Neville (because he's a red), then Moyes
And not because I have agenda or anything, just simply there are better options, at least IMO
I never said that Moyes is a better manager than Mourinho, just that he's better suited to United than Mourinho.
Fair enough, Moyes would certainly be one of my first choices, don't know where I'd ultimately go, head says Jose, but I'm not sure if he's the best fit. Dunno how you could say Neville over Moyes though.
Different managers are good at different things. Mourinho's a good manager but I don't like his record with youth players or his approach to transfers, plus his attitude is entertaining but can be embarassing at times.
I think people forget where Everton were when Moyes took over and the sort of seasons they were having before he came along. It happens sometimes when a manager does terrific work, but people start to think that he should actually be doing more to be considered a real success. Normally when that manager leaves, the team tends to drop because he played such a big part in bringing them to were they where.
If Moyes leaves Everton right now, they may be OK for a while because he's built up a good squad. In two-three years when players leave and need to be replaced, I'd expect them to be in the lower half of the table. How deep they go, who knows.
This is nothing to do with United, by the way. Mourinho would be a far more logical appointment in my mind. But the constant attempt to play down Moyes's abilities is a little weird.
If Moyes leaves Everton right now, they may be OK for a while because he's built up a good squad. In two-three years when players leave and need to be replaced, I'd expect them to be in the lower half of the table. How deep they go, who knows.
This is nothing to do with United, by the way. Mourinho would be a far more logical appointment in my mind. But the constant attempt to play down Moyes's abilities is a little weird.
He got the respect needed, he won over the Scouse with his punditry, and it took alot doing that
They begrudgingly love him for his punditry
And the analysis he does on Arsenal is very insightful (probably it's just normal in the eyes of a professional manager worthy of their salt, I don't know)
Not to mention he's under SAF guidance for all his carreer
Him being one of the very few pundits willing to give his honest opinion on players/teams rather than just spout the same stuff that the majority of pundits doo, doesn't for me put him ahead of Moyes. It is encouraging for his managerial career if he does start though that he's able to explain clearly to others his thoughts on the game, I'd imagiine thats why a lot of good players don't become good managers because they aren't able to communicate their knowledge appropriately.
But to put him ahead of Moyes is going way ott, especially in the context of most yours and other arguments which is that you want a manager who has won trophies already.
But to put him ahead of Moyes is going way ott, especially in the context of most yours and other arguments which is that you want a manager who has won trophies already.
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