Moyes To Succeed Ferguson Anyone?

[kietotheworld]

Actually I HAVE considered that he may not want to come to United yes. Its perfectly possible.

Everton-Manchester United is a far less significent rivalry than Utd_liverpool or liverpool-Everton.......by a LONG way.

Liverpool have a better fanbase....yep....better at burning shirts supporting racists and hounding perfectly good managers out of jobs for the heinous crime of not being Kenny Dalgliesh

Newcastle are and will always be a smaller club than Everton.

Spurs.....I really dont know.....maybe hes a fecking huge anti semite...maybe he has a monkey phobia and the thought of working closely with Gareth Bale day in day out creeps him out or maybe the task of getting boomerang defoe out of the club put him off.....I DONT KNOW AND NEITHER DO YOU.

City..I do seem to remember him being linked after Sven and before hughes, not heavily, but linked although thats purely from memory and could be wrong.

It seemed pretty significant to the fans when they were bombarding our players with coins and foreign objects and wishing for Wayne Rooney to die of cancer in our first game back there. Liverpool fans get up to some atrocious things, but Everton fans are just as bad, the only difference being that Everton's are a lot more bitter than Liverpool's on account of their massive inferiority.

Newcastle smaller in what respect?

Spurs - yeah, you can't even come up with a credible explanation, or an explanation that wouldn't preclude him from being United manager (with our Jewish owners) says a lot

City after Sven and before Hughes is irrelevant, they were nothing back then.

 

[kietotheworld]

That's just all rubbish.

This three game losing streak you keep mentioning, when was the last time Eveton lost three in a row? If supporters are that superficial then that's their problem, that's why we don't let brainless chicken feckers run the club.

United can and will attract top players no matter who's in charge, big names go to big clubs. How often do we sign big names anyway.

Everton last lost three in a row just over a year ago.

 

[MrMojo]

It seemed pretty significant to the fans when they were bombarding our players with coins and foreign objects and wishing for Wayne Rooney to die of cancer in our first game back there. Liverpool fans get up to some atrocious things, but Everton fans are just as bad, the only difference being that Everton's are a lot more bitter than Liverpool's on account of their massive inferiority.

Newcastle smaller in what respect?

Spurs - yeah, you can't even come up with a credible explanation, or an explanation that wouldn't preclude him from being United manager (with our Jewish owners) says a lot

City after Sven and before Hughes is irrelevant, they were nothing back then.

It's a pretty bleak view of football when you think managers/footballers should skip from club to club whenever a slightly better opportunity arises.

I suppose as long as you put aside loyalty, stability, current working relationship and a medium to long term view of your career it's possible.

 

[kietotheworld]

If he was thinking about a long term view of his career he might realise that winning trophies would help him get a better job.

 

[Sky1981]

Well the fact that the majority of clubs are spending more then them year on year suggests there is competition surely?

United finishing top 4 is expected given they spends like a top 4 club. Everton consistently finishing 5-10th when they're usually spending closer to 15-10th is an over achievement. It's been shown that there's a direct correlation between wages and success (at least I think it has). So Everton and therefore Moyes are going against the trend.

They spend near the 10th , don't distort the fact, they're not actually that skint

Not to mention the mismanagement of Liverpool, and Newcastle before last season, so they pretty much on the right track, but to suggest moyes is doing brilliant with them kinda forcing it

 

[MrMojo]

If he was thinking about a long term view of his career he might realise that winning trophies would help him get a better job.

And joining Liverpool, Newcastle or Spurs would realise these trophy ambitions?

Their trophy cabinets haven't been all that busy in the last five years have they.

 

[Sky1981]

That's just all rubbish.

This three game losing streak you keep mentioning, when was the last time Eveton lost three in a row? If supporters are that superficial then that's their problem, that's why we don't let brainless chicken feckers run the club.

United can and will attract top players no matter who's in charge, big names go to big clubs. How often do we sign big names anyway.

IF

It's not impossible to lose 3 on a trot, ask the scouse

And yes, although most would claim otherwise, supporters in general are superficial and a spoiled fickle. It's not our problem, but as a whole it'll become United's problem.

Fergie can afford 3 defeat, even 3 trophyless season because he has earned it, moyes hasn't earn anything with United.

I doubt the last part, we don't have the lure as we used to be. How many people chooses other teams recently?

On top of my head : Ronaldinho, Ronaldo (he did prefer Madrid), Sneijder, Ozil, etc

We don't have a lure as big as before, with City and Chelsea coming in with better salary, and they're also capable of winning trophy. Sadly that's the case nowdays, we have to count the likes of Zenit, PSG

It's a tougher world nowdays, we need every extra bit we can muster

 

[kietotheworld]

And joining Liverpool, Newcastle or Spurs would realise these trophy ambitions?

Their trophy cabinets haven't been all that busy in the last five years have they.

Spurs and Liverpool have actually competed for and won trophies, as well as qualifying for the Champions League in the last 5 years.

 

[Ash_G]

They spend near the 10th , don't distort the fact, they're not actually that skint

Not to mention the mismanagement of Liverpool, and Newcastle before last season, so they pretty much on the right track, but to suggest moyes is doing brilliant with them kinda forcing it

Even if they spend nearer to tenth, although some of the figures suggest they spend less then that at times, that's still 3 places less than they finish typically. We all praise Ferguson for not being able to spend like a City/Chelsea and still keeping competitive with them, Moyes is doing the same for his situation.

I didn't say he's doing brilliantly, but he's certainly exceeding expectations consistently. And that's something he's done over a roughly 10 year period. Where as say someone like Pardew at Toon, although things might change, has currently had 1 great year and is now struggling, much like other british managers who have the odd great year but can't maintain it. Moyes is doing that year on year.

 

[Zen86]

If 5 years ago, he believes that he's being groomed for the United job because SAF hints it so.... he's a bigger loon than everyone will ever thought

I mean, your opposition team hinted you could succeed his job, and you bank all your life's carreer for it to be true???

Besides, he finishes between 5-8th every year, are we gonna stoop so low we can only attract managers of that calibre? There's not much competition on the 5-10 range, the usual suspect will be newcastle, everton, tottenham, Liverpool, and a few rotating flavor of the season (swansea, norwich, etc)

So... maintaining a status quo and finishing just where you're expected to finish is a sign of great manager? And I don't really buy investing in youth, Everton are skint, off course Moyes are forced to go down in his academy for fresh talent, My bet is that he spent more time there ensuring there's good enough talent for him not to buy abroad.

It's one thing to unearth talent good enough for Premier league midtable, but it's another thing to unearth local lad good enough to play for Manchester United.

Sorry, I don't any agenda on Moyes, he's a good and loyal manager on his own right, but after so long he hasn't really improve Everton. He never challenges the top four, nor making any surprises at the cup run, nor having a blast at Europa League.

Factor in :
1. he'll need to be experienced in Europe
2. He'll need to be Experienced in rotating the squad since United are probably having 4-5 competitions every calendar year
3. Managing players having more individual honors than whole Everton history
4. Media pressure which undoubtedly will be folds after the retirement of SAF
5. Fan's and probably players' doubt if things get bumpy, even for a few match
6. He's not really tested to look for players in the 30M+ range, which is another ballgame as to compared with finding mediocre player to play for Everton

And I don't believe easilly we will give him time and support, if he loses 3 in a trot, the fans will be on his back faster than you can imagine. Things like this escalates quickly into a crisis, and we'll be facing a bigger gamble whether to stick with him or appointing someone new.

And the stake of all that is 25 years of mediocrity ala Liverpool should Moyes failed. It's not merely about trophyless season, we can live with that, but if we go a few good years without trophy after SAF, that'll quickly sent the whole thing spiraling down.

Top players will doubt our ambitions, We can't pay top dollar, and the local lads are probably poached more easilly by Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal, Chelsea, and god knows which club's the next sugar daddy funded.

We'll become Liverpool, and again it's not that I'm a glory hunter, but we're at the biggest decision making process in the club history, and I for once would gladly put aside romantism for 5 years of stability after SAF. Mourinho is the safest bet for the long term winning tradition of Manchester United.

Moyes might / might not succeed, same as mourinho, but as I can't see the future, I can only put my bet on the one with better odds.

You talk a lot of nonsense about attracting and buying £30m+ players, yet how often do we actually do that?

You talk a lot of nonsense about dealing with the big egos; we identify our players based on their mentality and the only real tricky character to deal with would be Rooney, whom Moyes already knows. We don't generally go for big time charlies.

You don't mention anything about bringing through youth and developing players, something which has been ingrained into Manchester United, something which we are heavily dependent on and which Mourinho has a limited record of at this level. Contrast this to Moyes.

You also seem incredibly assured that moyes will instantly fail. He's a manager in the Fergie mould and would deal with the squad Fergie leaves quite well I should think.

And this nonsense about Mourinho being the safe bet for the long term of Manchester United? He'd be off in 3 years time.

 

[Sky1981]

It's a pretty bleak view of football when you think managers/footballers should skip from club to club whenever a slightly better opportunity arises.

I suppose as long as you put aside loyalty, stability, current working relationship and a medium to long term view of your career it's possible.

There's no such thing as loyalty in professional football

SAF can last that for 26 years not because he's loyal, but Manchester United meets his demand (be it ego, vision, passion, financial, etc) and SAF meets Manchester United expectation (achivement, progress, etc)

I only considered one loyal when they work without getting paid, other than that there's no loyalty for working and getting paid handsomely. It's just a business transaction of mutual benefits

 

[MrMojo]

Spurs and Liverpool have actually competed for and won trophies, as well as qualifying for the Champions League in the last 5 years.

Spurs have won one League Cup in the last 13 years, Newcastle haven't won anything for decades. It wouldn't motivate me to leave a place/job that I love.

As for Liverpool, you really think it's feasible for him to manage Everyon for this length of time and then jump shit to their local, historical rivals. To carry on living in the city, put up with the inevitable crap and abuse he'd get. All for what, to join a club who for years has been in disarray and currently sit many positions below his own team. You're just looking for a stick to beat him with on this one.

 

[Ash_G]

Well that's your personal belief and not based on objective reasoning. I'm sure there's been a fair few examples of loyalty over the years. Didn't De Rossi just reject City and their cash?

 

[MrMojo]

There's no such thing as loyalty in professional football

SAF can last that for 26 years not because he's loyal, but Manchester United meets his demand (be it ego, vision, passion, financial, etc) and SAF meets Manchester United expectation (achivement, progress, etc)

I only considered one loyal when they work without getting paid, other than that there's no loyalty for working and getting paid handsomely. It's just a business transaction of mutual benefits

Of course there's loyalty. You don't think there are clubs in the last 26 years who could also meet SAF's demands, who could fulfills his ambitions?

 

[Ash_G]

On Moyes going to Liverpool I'm genuinely surprised some think that is feasible, look at how the Chelsea fans have taken to Benitez or how Villa took to Mcleish. Everton and Liverpool are on another level of rivalry.

 

[Raoul]

Spurs and Newcastle would have been a stupid gamble for Moyes' career, especially as they're not a particularly big step up (if at all).

Avram Grant and Di Matteo were promoted at Chelsea, with the rest of the managers being the fancy foreign types with big reputations. Mark Hughes was a remnant of the Shinawatra era and was axed soon after the Sheiks came in.

Moyes is a smart bloke and doesn't strike me as the type who wants to throw away his career for a nice payday. Plus if he's being groomed for the United job (which IMO he is if Fergie's comments are anything to go by) why on earth would he want to go to another club?

Either that or he's simply not interested in leaving Everton. Even if he wasn't interested, the questions remains why other clubs haven't been beating down the door to court him.

 

[Sky1981]

Well that's your personal belief and not based on objective reasoning. I'm sure there's been a fair few examples of loyalty over the years. Didn't De Rossi just reject City and their cash?

It is objective

The only catch is that you can't quantify passion, vision, love and other emotional feeling as easy as nominal value of $

But yes, it's all equation in one personal consideration for the transaction of contracts and agreements to happen

 

[Zen86]

Either that or he's simply not interested in leaving Everton. Even if he wasn't interested, the questions remains why other clubs haven't been beating down the door to court him.

You know, not everything is done in public with managers. Half the league may well have enquired about him for all we know.

Besides, why are things being gauged on other club's opinions anyway, as if they're all so clued up?

 

[Ash_G]

It is objective

The only catch is that you can't quantify passion, vision, love and other emotional feeling as easy as nominal value of $

But yes, it's all equation in one personal consideration for the transaction of contracts and agreements to happen

Well you're categorically stating that there is no loyalty in football or any other paid line of work. As I said De Rossi just rejected a move to City out of loyalty, Totti has done the same. I'm sure a lot of people will know people in their work places who could go on to bigger companies/bigger wages but stay out of loyalty and other intangible things. Money undoubtedly dictates the majority but it is not the only factor for all.

 

[MrMojo]

Well you're categorically stating that there is no loyalty in football or any other paid line of work. As I said De Rossi just rejected a move to City out of loyalty, Totti has done the same. I'm sure a lot of people will know people in their work places who could go on to bigger companies/bigger wages but stay out of loyalty and other intangible things. Money undoubtedly dictates the majority but it is not the only factor for all.

His SAF example totally discredited his point. Throughout his time with us SAF could have left for a club who would match his ambitions and offer him considerably more money. He's even had money troubles/arguments with the club and still stayed.

Players and loyalty I might agree with, but it's different with managers, loyalty definitely plays a part because it become their club.

 

[Sky1981]

Well you're categorically stating that there is no loyalty in football or any other paid line of work. As I said De Rossi just rejected a move to City out of loyalty, Totti has done the same. I'm sure a lot of people will know people in their work places who could go on to bigger companies/bigger wages but stay out of loyalty and other intangible things. Money undoubtedly dictates the majority but it is not the only factor for all.

You said it yourself. it's intangible

I'm not saying there isn't loyalty, but most of them time its is just : MONEY + INTANGILE = not enough to warrant a move.

That's all

 

[kietotheworld]

Spurs have won one League Cup in the last 13 years, Newcastle haven't won anything for decades. It wouldn't motivate me to leave a place/job that I love.

As for Liverpool, you really think it's feasible for him to manage Everyon for this length of time and then jump shit to their local, historical rivals. To carry on living in the city, put up with the inevitable crap and abuse he'd get. All for what, to join a club who for years has been in disarray and currently sit many positions below his own team. You're just looking for a stick to beat him with on this one.

What about the prospect of CL qualification with Spurs? They finished in the Top 4 twice in the last 3 years with Harry Redknapp.

I don't know why you think David Moyes lives in the city of Liverpool, nobody wealthy who works for either of those football clubs lives in that area. They're a much bigger team than Everton and have an awful lot more potential for success.

 

[Zen86]

What about the prospect of CL qualification with Spurs? They finished in the Top 4 twice in the last 3 years with Harry Redknapp.

I don't know why you think David Moyes lives in the city of Liverpool, nobody wealthy who works for either of those football clubs lives in that area. They're a much bigger team than Everton and have an awful lot more potential for success.

What success is this?

 

[Sky1981]

like someone said

All and all, the only thing people will read in his CV is just : FA cup Runner up

 

[apotheosis]

Well you're categorically stating that there is no loyalty in football or any other paid line of work. As I said De Rossi just rejected a move to City out of loyalty, Totti has done the same. I'm sure a lot of people will know people in their work places who could go on to bigger companies/bigger wages but stay out of loyalty and other intangible things. Money undoubtedly dictates the majority but it is not the only factor for all.

Don't bother Ash, been down this road before with this poster. It doesn't matter how many valid points you bring up, nothing will change Sky's yearning for Mourinho, and his incessant salivating at the potential trophy haul he will bring!

Im surprised he has not yet brought up the tale of Liverpool's demise as 'evidence' of how much we have simply got to get Mourinho to avoid turning into them after SAF goes!

 

[kietotheworld]

What success is this?

The sky's the limit for Liverpool if they get the right manager in and back him.

 

[MrMojo]

There's no such thing as loyalty in professional football

I'm not saying there isn't loyalty.

If you don't think Moyes is good enough then fair enough, but you're current strand of argument is tying itself in knots.

 

[Zen86]

like someone said

All and all, the only thing people will read in his CV is just : FA cup Runner up

Good job football works beyond CVs, see Benitez.

 

[Zen86]

The sky's the limit for Liverpool if they get the right manager in and back him.

As much as the sky's the limit for anyone in the top 8, yes.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

You know, not everything is done in public with managers. Half the league may well have enquired about him for all we know.

Besides, why are things being gauged on other club's opinions anyway, as if they're all so clued up?

Now come on.....do try and keep up, kietotheworld said it DOES all come out into public so that must mean its true.

 

[Sky1981]

Good job football works beyond CVs, see Benitez.

Sadly, as much as I loathe him

He got a CV to back him up. Hence he got the chance to screw it up in the first place.

CV means shit, I know. It's not the end of the world, but when compared to the guy who won treble, leagues all over the world, and various other cup, it does goes pale in comparison.

 

[Ash_G]

You said it yourself. it's intangible

I'm not saying there isn't loyalty, but most of them time its is just : MONEY + INTANGILE = not enough to warrant a move.

That's all

Fair play but as you said most of the time is not everytime.

Personally I really don't see many clubs that Moyes could/would move to. Liverpool for me is completely off the table, Arsenal are sticking with Wenger, Chelsea as I said are a circus and for me there choices don't reflect how we should think, City went with Mancini and are sticking with him, again we don't know how that club is run and what they want from managers.

Spurs is in a better financial position than Everton granted but we don't know whether they contacted Moyes about the job or not, certainly there were rumours about it. Toon is a sideways step and that's it.

 

[Zen86]

Sadly, as much as I loathe him

He got a CV to back him up. Hence he got the chance to screw it up in the first place.

CV means shit, I know. It's not the end of the world, but when compared to the guy who won treble, leagues all over the world, and various other cup, it does goes pale in comparison.

Sadly what you will always fail to understand is that there's much more to it than that.

 

[MrMojo]

What about the prospect of CL qualification with Spurs? They finished in the Top 4 twice in the last 3 years with Harry Redknapp.

I don't know why you think David Moyes lives in the city of Liverpool, nobody wealthy who works for either of those football clubs lives in that area. They're a much bigger team than Everton and have an awful lot more potential for success.

And well done to Redknapp because they were in the relegation spots when he took over. Is that when Moyes should have left his job at Everton to join them? Everton have also finished fourth and are currently three points behind Spurs. Again, it's a marginal step up.

I'm going to leave the Liverpool discussion, if you can't see now how him going there is a non starter you never will.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

The sky's the limit for Liverpool if they get the right manager in and back him.

and IF my aunty had balls she would be my Uncle. You also forget to add in IF the new manager remembers to keep spouting the scouse party line a la rogers rather than hodgson who had a near identical record in the same amount of time there, and IF he can avoid making some slight against the might Scouse nation that gets himself sacked, and IF United City Chelsea Arsenal etc all stop developing and investing in their squads they MIGHT win something.

 

[Sky1981]

Fair play but as you said most of the time is not everytime.

Personally I really don't see many clubs that Moyes could/would move to. Liverpool for me is completely off the table, Arsenal are sticking with Wenger, Chelsea as I said are a circus and for me there choices don't reflect how we should think, City went with Mancini and are sticking with him, again we don't know how that club is run and what they want from managers.

Spurs is in a better financial position than Everton granted but we don't know whether they contacted Moyes about the job or not, certainly there were rumours about it. Toon is a sideways step and that's it.

fair enough, I don't have any qualms with his personal decision on what he views as a stepup

I'm just not entirely comfortable with him managing United (and I think it's justified to have doubts, since he's not exactly world beaters)

 

[Sky1981]

Sadly what you will always fail to understand is that there's much more to it than that.

I have never been in the dressing room, nor being coached by either Moyes or Mourinho, and I believe none of us have

So all and all, we can only judge them from their achievement. And mourinho does comes out as a clear winner.

Anything else is subjective and opinion, but trophy won is facts.

Moyes might have been a master in man management, in tactics, and probably given the same chance and circumstances Mourinho was given, he might eclipse him. But we will never know

It's because we will never know the future, I'm tending to put my odds in a safer bet.

 

[kietotheworld]

As much as the sky's the limit for anyone in the top 8, yes.

Bullshit, Liverpool have a wider fanbase than any other club in the Top 8 bar United.

And well done to Redknapp because they were in the relegation spots when he took over. Is that when Moyes should have left his job at Everton to join them? Everton have also finished fourth and are currently three points behind Spurs. Again, it's a marginal step up.

I'm going to leave the Liverpool discussion, if you can't see now how him going there is a non starter you never will.

No, he should have applied for the job this year, I expect he probably did and they weren't interested because they wanted a successful manager.

Concession accepted.

and IF my aunty had balls she would be my Uncle. You also forget to add in IF the new manager remembers to keep spouting the scouse party line a la rogers rather than hodgson who had a near identical record in the same amount of time there, and IF he can avoid making some slight against the might Scouse nation that gets himself sacked, and IF United City Chelsea Arsenal etc all stop developing and investing in their squads they MIGHT win something.

If they back a manager, and he's the right manager then they're golden, it'll take a while to get rid of the dead wood that Dalglish brought in, but once that's gone there's a big opportunity for any manager who wants to make a name for himself.

 

[Ash_G]

Tbh I've never said Moyes should be first choice just that he should be in contention and I expect will be in contention. Mourinho if he wants it should be the front runner no doubt, but he's not the only choice, nor Pep, and I think Moyes has shown plenty of talent to suggest he could step up.

 

[MrMojo]

Bullshit, Liverpool have a wider fanbase than any other club in the Top 8 bar United.


No, he should have applied for the job this year, I expect he probably did and they weren't interested because they wanted a successful manager.

Concession accepted.



If they back a manager, and he's the right manager then they're golden, it'll take a while to get rid of the dead wood that Dalglish brought in, but once that's gone there's a big opportunity for any manager who wants to make a name for himself.

Oh you mean Villas Boas, the guy who'd been miserable at Chelsea and just been sacked. You have a liking for managers who get the sack, I see that now. I'll stick with managers who can keep a job.