Moyes To Succeed Ferguson Anyone?

[devilish]

Is nobody bothered that Guardiala left Baca because of the pressure? We're talking about replacing Alex Ferguson here, whoever does it will be under the microscope like never before.

I can't talk alot about the Spanish Liga (I follow it but I know more about the Serie A) but football at this southern region of Europe is much more scrutinized. There's more pressure to win, the media has access to everything, including the training grounds and they will nail you for every silly mistake you do. Leading the best team in the world isn't as easy as one may think, especially if the manager wasn't the person to build that team in the first place (everyone at Barca shares the merit of that team from Rijkaard to Guardiola). You are expected to win everything year in year out.

Mind, Im not saying that the EPL is a bed of roses. However there's less pressure especially at a club like United which is a club whose lead as a business and not like someone's play thing.

 

[devilish]

In my opinion football is changing and its certainly not going into the English way of play. The Spanish way of football is there to stay and resistance to it is as futile as insisting on long ball football or the Italian catenacchio when it was evident that it had grown obsolete. I am not saying that we should become Barcelona clone. However, there are many lessons who can be learnt out of that game expecially in terms of ball possession.

If I had to choice between someone whose one of his top achievements was to make Gibson look good and one of the pioneers of Spanish and Barca's revolution then my choice is as obvious. Guardiola ticks all the right boxes. He's young, he knows the game, he was central in Barcelona's and Spain's revolution, he's a proven winner and he values the need of a good youth academy more then anyone else. I acknowledge his lack of experience in the EPL game. That's why I believe that we should partner him with someone like Ole or Gaz who are red through and through and had proven they know the game well.

I am sure that Moyes will get his chance one day but its time for him to move on. Spurs or Arsenal would be the perfect stepping stone for him.

 

[Adebesi]

not really the same challenge for him though is it? replacing Sir Alex is a much bigger challenge football wise for him than just managing another team with shit tons of money (he did that with Chelski and to an extent with Madrid)

plus it's not like the money we could offer is that much less (despite what people will say, I think when it comes to the next manager we will offer what we have to), plus resources wise we arguably have more than City can dream of offering and it's all longer established here, in so many ways United is a much bigger job and a much bigger challenge for him, going to City for him is almost a step backwards, it's Chelski for him all over again, except this time without the same project he had at Chelski as City have already won things, there's nothing new or challenging for him there, replacing the greatest manager of all time at a club like United is a massive test for him and it's clear he is a huge admirer of Sir Alex, what better way to prove yourself against SAF than to replace him? it all points toward him wanting the United job imho, heck I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of unofficial deal has already been done for him to take it once SAF retires even.

I agree with most of that. Except the money. City can throw silly sums at it to get their man. If it comes down to that, we lose I reckon. Money in terms of remuneration and money for buying players. If that's what he wants, it's City. If it's the challenge as you defined it otherwise, it's us. I think you're probably right, the United job probably appeals to his ego. I wouldn't write off the draw of City tho.

 

[jojojo]

If I had to choice between someone whose one of his top achievements was to make Gibson look good and one of the pioneers of Spanish and Barca's revolution then my choice is as obvious. Guardiola ticks all the right boxes. He's young, he knows the game, he was central in Barcelona's and Spain's revolution, he's a proven winner and he values the need of a good youth academy more then anyone else.

Just out of curiosity how do you feel he was central to Spain's revolution?
The revolution happened before and during the Aragones era, winning the Euros in 2008, broke a decade of underachievement - and did it with more style than their later teams. Credit where it's due but crediting Guardiola as one of its pioneers seems to be taking credit away from where it's due.

 

[1999united2008]

never really been that big a fan of Guardiola tbh, he had a Barca side that was immense anyway and tons of money, and he left as soon as he wasn't winning things easily and stuff.

 

[Raoul]

never really been that big a fan of Guardiola tbh, he had a Barca side that was immense anyway and tons of money, and he left as soon as he wasn't winning things easily and stuff.

Yes I tend to agree. They certainly aren't worse off since he left.

 

[Ringo 07]

Just out of curiosity how do you feel he was central to Spain's revolution?

Spain have had a real aura of invincibility ever since the won the first Euro cup that lead to their dominance.......Guardiola has played a major role in instilling a winning mentality into that Spain team dominated by Barca players. He also was the first coach to implement total football tactics in the modern game and make it successful. He has proved to be a monster of a coach....whether he has what it takes to do it all again in England is another matter but if he goes to CIty then he certainly will have the resources to make a clean sweep of trophies in EUrope without too much effort.

One thing I will take away from Guardiola though is that his legacy at Braca is a lot greater because of us. Fergie got his tactics and team selection horribly wrong in both Euro finals against Barca in 2009 and 2011 and never has there been two Euro finals so one sided before as Barca had it against us......(Fletcher getting that needless red card against Arsenal in the semis of the CL probably being the costliest mistake any player of ours ever made).........
as if you look at the other teams Barca came up against in the CL in the years they beat us in the final.....other teams gave them really tough games and gave a real go of dumping them out like in that Chelsea semi final in 2009 when Barca needed a 93rd minute strike and huge ref decisons in their favor to dump Chelsea out. Inter managed to dump them out the following year and in 2011 Arsenal managed to beat Braca 2 - 1 at home after the group stages before losing 3 - 1 at the nou camp after.

 

[Varun]

Yes I tend to agree. They certainly aren't worse off since he left.

The incoming manager has hardly changed anything though. They're basically just doing what Guardiola started.

 

[1999united2008]

The incoming manager has hardly changed anything though. They're basically just doing what Guardiola started.

technically Barca are doing better this season then they did last season thus far though, so if anything the new manager is "better" at the same thing

 

[ciderman9000000]

Spain have had a real aura of invincibility ever since the won the first Euro cup that lead to their dominance.......Guardiola has played a major role in instilling a winning mentality into that Spain team dominated by Barca players. He also was the first coach to implement total football tactics in the modern game and make it successful. He has proved to be a monster of a coach....whether he has what it takes to do it all again in England is another matter but if he goes to CIty then he certainly will have the resources to make a clean sweep of trophies in EUrope without too much effort.

One thing I will take away from Guardiola though is that his legacy at Braca is a lot greater because of us. Fergie got his tactics and team selection horribly wrong in both Euro finals against Barca in 2009 and 2011 and never has there been two Euro finals so one sided before as Barca had it against us......(Fletcher getting that needless red card against Arsenal in the semis of the CL probably being the costliest mistake any player of ours ever made) .........
as if you look at the other teams Barca came up against in the CL in the years they beat us in the final.....other teams gave them really tough games and gave a real go of dumping them out like in that Chelsea semi final in 2009 when Barca needed a 93rd minute strike and huge ref decisons in their favor to dump Chelsea out. Inter managed to dump them out the following year and in 2011 Arsenal managed to beat Braca 2 - 1 at home after the group stages before losing 3 - 1 at the nou camp after.

Well, it was never a red; wasn't even a foul, just good defending, so it's a bit harsh to call it a mistake.

 

[Comsmit]

never really been that big a fan of Guardiola tbh, he had a Barca side that was immense anyway and tons of money, and he left as soon as he wasn't winning things easily and stuff.

A bit of a generalisation here I feel. The Barca side he inherited wasn't immense, they hadn't won the Primera for 2 years running and Rijkaard wasn't getting the best out of the talent in the ranks, particularly Messi. Guardiola made that side immense with the peak being 2011 when they tore us up at Wembley. He had been working with the B team in the background since 2007 re-organising and re-inventing the academy structure with great success. It's no coincidence Barca's youngsters fit seamlessly into the first team.

Granted he had a lot of money at his disposal, but he bought some cheaper players that served him well, Pique, Maxwell, Adriano peppered with good investments such as Alves, Villa and Fabregas.

He left because he was fecking shattered, I think it is hard to summarise how all-consuming the position must have been for him....being who he is and what he means to the club. I think it showed a sense of perspective, you only have to look at his physical transformation inside 4 years to see the toll it took. If your health and well-being is affected by your work then you need to do something about it. Ferguson has always maintained this sense of perspective.

He has a lot to prove no doubt but remember he is only 41 years of age. He doesn't yet have the experience or the sheer stamina Ferguson or even Mourinho possesses, Barca was his first managerial position and he truly excelled. He will come back from his sabbatical with renewed energy and a lot more experience. A year off will allow him to step back and look at his 4 years at Barca objectively and without internal influences. Whoever manages to secure him will be gaining a very talented visionary with the right attitude to the game and huge respect from his peers.

 

[jojojo]

To be fair to Guardiola on the succumbing to pressure thing. He was hardly going to say, "I'm fed up managing Barcelona. I'm fed up of the boardroom politics. I want a new job. Maybe more money. More time off."

A one year sabbatical to recharge his batteries (and perfect his English) sounds so much more polite.

 

[1999united2008]

A bit of a generalisation here I feel. The Barca side he inherited wasn't immense, they hadn't won the Primera for 2 years running and Rijkaard wasn't getting the best out of the talent in the ranks, particularly Messi. Guardiola made that side immense with the peak being 2011 when they tore us up at Wembley. He had been working with the B team in the background since 2007 re-organising and re-inventing the academy structure with great success. It's no coincidence Barca's youngsters fit seamlessly into the first team.

Granted he had a lot of money at his disposal, but he bought some cheaper players that served him well, Pique, Maxwell, Adriano peppered with good investments such as Alves, Villa and Fabregas.

He left because he was fecking shattered, I think it is hard to summarise how all-consuming the position must have been for him....being who he is and what he means to the club. I think it showed a sense of perspective, you only have to look at his physical transformation inside 4 years to see the toll it took. If your health and well-being is affected by your work then you need to do something about it. Ferguson has always maintained this sense of perspective.

He has a lot to prove no doubt but remember he is only 41 years of age. He doesn't yet have the experience or the sheer stamina Ferguson or even Mourinho possesses, Barca was his first managerial position and he truly excelled. He will come back from his sabbatical with renewed energy and a lot more experience. A year off will allow him to step back and look at his 4 years at Barca objectively and without internal influences. Whoever manages to secure him will be gaining a very talented visionary with the right attitude to the game and huge respect from his peers.

you really want a manager who can't hack it for more than 4 years in a high pressure job? his age makes it less of an excuse tbh, he has more energy and shit than Sir Alex yet SAF has done a high pressure job of his own for 26 years and counting without a break, heck even before that SAF wasn't out of a job for long.

 

[Raoul]

The incoming manager has hardly changed anything though. They're basically just doing what Guardiola started.

So if they win the league and CL this year its Pep who will get the credit is it ?

 

[1999united2008]

So if they win the league and CL this year its Pep who will get the credit is it ?

from his fanboys probably yeah...

I hope he goes to City or Chelsea, I have a feeling he wouldn't do well in the English game so would rather he went to one of our rivals.

for me it's got to be Mourinho to replace SAF, proven record in the Premiership and ability to adapt to different clubs and win with them.

 

[pocco]

I would like Mourinho but he threw me off a bit when he said Fergie will still be here when he returns to the prem, or something along those lines.

 

[Jaz]

Mou is the one.

 

[Forevergiggs]

The incoming manager has hardly changed anything though. They're basically just doing what Guardiola started.

That is not true. Believe it not, offensively they have become a bit better. I saw couple of Barca games this season and they are not that narrow anymore. They have started stretching the field more than I have previously seen. They look to have found an answer to what was their downfall at times last season.

I was hoping for a decline after Pep's departure but the opposite seems to be true.

 

[Adebesi]

He left because he was fecking shattered, I think it is hard to summarise how all-consuming the position must have been for him.

Yet

The manager job in most Spanish clubs is much more limited than in the PL, especially at United where Fergie has become increasingly the sole figure of authority.

So that doesn't look promising, unless the whole management structure is shaken up, as Brightonian suggested.

 

[Platato]

A bit of a generalisation here I feel. The Barca side he inherited wasn't immense, they hadn't won the Primera for 2 years running and Rijkaard wasn't getting the best out of the talent in the ranks, particularly Messi. Guardiola made that side immense with the peak being 2011 when they tore us up at Wembley. He had been working with the B team in the background since 2007 re-organising and re-inventing the academy structure with great success. It's no coincidence Barca's youngsters fit seamlessly into the first team.

Granted he had a lot of money at his disposal, but he bought some cheaper players that served him well, Pique, Maxwell, Adriano peppered with good investments such as Alves, Villa and Fabregas.

He left because he was fecking shattered, I think it is hard to summarise how all-consuming the position must have been for him....being who he is and what he means to the club. I think it showed a sense of perspective, you only have to look at his physical transformation inside 4 years to see the toll it took. If your health and well-being is affected by your work then you need to do something about it. Ferguson has always maintained this sense of perspective.

He has a lot to prove no doubt but remember he is only 41 years of age. He doesn't yet have the experience or the sheer stamina Ferguson or even Mourinho possesses, Barca was his first managerial position and he truly excelled. He will come back from his sabbatical with renewed energy and a lot more experience. A year off will allow him to step back and look at his 4 years at Barca objectively and without internal influences. Whoever manages to secure him will be gaining a very talented visionary with the right attitude to the game and huge respect from his peers.

Well said mate. You dont post often but your analysis is usually spot on. Not much I disagree with here.

I think people are surprised he is burnt out for someone so young. As you said, I don't think anyone really understands how much of a toll this job took on him. The best indication is the change in his facial features. There's more to managing Barca than just the success

 

[Platato]

Yet



So that doesn't look promising, unless the whole management structure is shaken up, as Brightonian suggested.

I don't think that argument works though. Managing Barca or Madrid is a different proposition to the other clubs in La Liga. The revenue from TV deals and money from the banks along with the culture of each fanbase is a testament to that.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Why if we get a Spanish manager it doesn't mean we can't use there style? Perhaps he wil trust his back room staff to do more.

Just because fergie likes doing everything himself doesn't mean it's the right or wrong way.

 

[Platato]

That is not true. Believe it not, offensively they have become a bit better. I saw couple of Barca games this season and they are not that narrow anymore. They have started stretching the field more than I have previously seen. They look to have found an answer to what was their downfall at times last season.

I was hoping for a decline after Pep's departure but the opposite seems to be true.

For the life of me, can't remember the name of their coach now but I remember Pep saying he is better tactically than him and he worked with him when he was coaching the B side.

 

[Comsmit]

Well said mate. You dont post often but your analysis is usually spot on. Not much I disagree with here.

I think people are surprised he is burnt out for someone so young. As you said, I don't think anyone really understands how much of a toll this job took on him. The best indication is the change in his facial features. There's more to managing Barca than just the success

Definitely man. You don't need to look any further really it's all there. To see him when he left Barca compared to the fresh faced guy in 2008 it almost looks like a different person.

Ferguson probably looked his worst in 2005 at the height of the Rock of Gibraltar affair, United's apparent decline and the accusations levelled at his son Jason....he almost looked ill. To see his transformation now he looks fitter, healthier and better at 70 than he did at 62-63. Pressure and stress gets to the very best, but they learn how to cope better with experience.

 

[Platato]

Definitely man. You don't need to look any further really it's all there. To see him when he left Barca compared to the fresh faced guy in 2008 it almost looks like a different person.

Ferguson probably looked his worst in 2005 at the height of the Rock of Gibraltar affair, United's apparent decline and the accusations levelled at his son Jason....he almost looked ill. To see his transformation now he looks fitter, healthier and better at 70 than he did at 62-63. Pressure and stress gets to the very best, but they learn how to cope better with experience.

Hopefully for Pep's sake, he can do the same.

 

[Sky1981]

I agree with most of that. Except the money. City can throw silly sums at it to get their man. If it comes down to that, we lose I reckon. Money in terms of remuneration and money for buying players. If that's what he wants, it's City. If it's the challenge as you defined it otherwise, it's us. I think you're probably right, the United job probably appeals to his ego. I wouldn't write off the draw of City tho.

Who did he buy though? Did he play FM with real club? his buying have been proven to be astute, minor a few feckups, which he acknowledge and move them on.

For sure he's not the want buying Ronaldo. All he buys are probably ozil, which is quite cheap considering what he gets.

At Chelsea, off course he has to spent, pre - roman chelski is like what Hotspur now , probably much worse. He bought big, and he delivers.

Many managers buys big and still fails to deliver.

I don't think he prioritise having a blank check over anything, you don't expect teams to manage Chelsea and Real Madrid and spend liek fecking everton.

Besides, his net spending in Real Madrid , Inter are quite good , contrary to the popular believes that he simply buys big. I know Ronaldo skewed all that, but if you discount ronaldo, I dont think he spent more than SAF in the same period of time.

 

[Arruda]

You don't need to discount Ronaldo as Mourinho had nothing to do with that. Ronaldo arrived a year earlier at Madrid.

 

[LR7]

SIR ALEX FERGUSON TIPS DAVID MOYES

SIR ALEX FERGUSON is backing David Moyes as the preferred choice for his successor at Old Trafford – even though Pep Guardiola wants the job.

Sir Alex feels Everton manager Moyes is better suited at guiding Manchester United in the long term. And the Scot feels current Real Madrid boss Jose Mourinho should be considered ahead of Guardiola.
Former Barcelona coach Guardiola is eyeing up the Reds as his next job once Fergie retires. The pair are even understood to be meeting this weekend in New York.
Fergie, who turns 71 at the end of the month, has made it clear to both United chief executive David Gill and the Glazers – the club’s American owners – that he backs Moyes.
The Scot admires the former Barca man but feels his close friend Moyes, 49, offers a better understanding of English football’s demands.

A source close to one of the United senior players revealed: “The talk about Manchester United appointing Guardiola is a little premature.
“He actually has two preferred choices – David Moyes and Jose Mourinho.
“Moyes and Fergie are close and Fergie begrudgingly admires how Moyes has ‘outfoxed’ him and many other teams over the years.
“Fergie admires Jose greatly but there are concerns that Jose’s manner and media links could make him become bigger than the club.”

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/365077/Sir-Alex-Ferguson-tips-David-Moyes

It's hearsay but worthy of a mention.
If it was a direct choice between Moyes and Guardiola I know I'd personally rather the latter but I could see Moyes being the preferred choice.
For a team who plays CL every year surely Pep would be a better fit?
One thing I've noticed is that all the papers seem to think its SAF choice who succeeds him. Whilst I'm sure he may have some input will it really be his decision outright? I doubt it.

 

[Varun]

SAF will definitely have a say in it but I dont think he can just pick his successor.

Also, the last 2 lines are typical journalist bullshit.

 

[VoetbalWizard]

david moyes will be a disaster in europe. count on it.

I want the next manager to come in, and like fergie, lay down a marker but this time for europe.

i want the next manager to come in and have the balls to say:

"My greatest challenge is not what's happening at the moment, my greatest challenge is knocking of Barcelona and Real Madrid right off their fecking perch. And you can print that"

David Moyes, the man whose greatest european success is losing a CL-playoff, is not that person.

 

[Varun]

Though i agree, Moyes cant really be blamed for not being a success on the European stage. He's hardly had a chance.

 

[LR7]

It's something that needs to be considered because SAF said recent,y he thought we had underachieved in Europe under him, yet if Moyes came it'd be a case of him learning from scratch effectively.

 

[Sassy Colin]

David Moyes would be a disaster at United. Despite various opportunities to move to a 'better' club he hasn't shown any real ambition. I admire his loyalty, but either he's accepted he's reached his level or he's too comfortable at Everton for his own good.

He's achieved nothing in the game, unlike SAF before he came to United. If it was 2 years ago, I'd have said AVB would have had a better shout than Moyes.

SAF's record before United:

1 at St. Mirren: Scottish First division
10 at Aberdeen: Scottish Premier division - 3 times
Scottish cup - 4 times
Scottish League cup - once
UEFA Cup winners' cup - once
UEFA Super cup - once

Moyes's record:

He got Preston a promotion.

No thanks!

 

[LR7]

David Moyes would be a disaster at United. Despite various opportunities to move to a 'better' club he hasn't shown any real ambition. I admire his loyalty, but either he's accepted he's reached his level or he's too comfortable at Everton for his own good.

He's achieved nothing in the game, unlike SAF before he came to United. If it was 2 years ago, I'd have said AVB would have had a better shout than Moyes.

SAF's record before United:

1 at St. Mirren: Scottish First division
10 at Aberdeen: Scottish Premier division - 3 times
Scottish cup - 4 times
Scottish League cup - once
UEFA Cup winners' cup - once
UEFA Super cup - once

Moyes's record:

He got Preston a promotion.

No thanks!

Everyone describes SAF as a winner and I think his replacement needs that winning mentality too.

 

[17Larsson]

Every time I see this thread it scares me incase there is official news that Moyes is taking over. Someone else already said it very well but would any of Madrid, Barca, Juventus, Milan, Chelsea take Moyes as manager? So why would Manchester United? Because he is Scottish? Because he hasn't been sacked in ten years?

 

[Raoul]

Every time I see this thread it scares me incase there is official news that Moyes is taking over. Someone else already said it very well but would any of Madrid, Barca, Juventus, Milan, Chelsea take Moyes as manager? So why would Manchester United? Because he is Scottish? Because he hasn't been sacked in ten years?

This basically sums everything up nicely.

 

[Zen86]

It's funny how people criticise Moyes' experience whilst talking up Pep.

 

[kietotheworld]

Though i agree, Moyes cant really be blamed for not being a success on the European stage. He's hardly had a chance.

He's had plenty of chances, how many times have Everton qualified for the Europa League in Moyes' tenure? How many times have their counterparts from the Spanish League enjoyed success in that competition in that period?

 

[Ash_G]

I highly doubt Real Madrid were looking at fergie all those years ago and I wouldn't say we're like those clubs aside from standing. Barca gave the job to guardiola, would people here prefer giggs to moyes? Would they be less worried? Moyes holds the joint record with fergie for being awarded manager of the year by fellow managers. He may not have won much but what he's done with a limited budget at Everton has been recognised as great by other managers in England.

 

[pocco]

To be fair, I think they've probably just read my posts in this thread to get that 'scoop'.