Really think his input will be decisive. Obviously, depending on the availability of that person.
Moyes To Succeed Ferguson Anyone?
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Exactly.
He might have no problem with it who knows. I just don't see the club opting for a manager who has no experience given how important the CL is to the club.
Unlike most I wouldn't have a huge problem if Moyes was given a shot, I just don't see it happening.
Too big a risk. Let him prove himself at a Tier 2 club first.
That is the immediate though that came to my mind. There is plenty of room to grow. One thing is for certain for me is that a lot of what I love about United will disappear when Fergie calls it a day. I've reinvigorated my support many times over but this will be a huge hit.
The guy is like a god when it comes to my support and love of the club.
FFS, United is bigger than any one person. Even Fergie!
It's not like Moyes wouldn't be able to talk to anyone about Europe. There will be plenty of people amongst the coaches, players etc who will be able to advise not to mention I doubt Fergie wouldn't be there to offer some advice even if he wasn't doing it in a public role, we know Fergie regularly provides help to managers. I don't think Klopp didn't have any CL experience before Dortmund and now he's just topped one of the hardest groups you could get.
Someone like Mourinho is of course ahead of Moyes if he wanted it but I think to say Moyes couldn't do it/would be out of his depth is very harsh on a manager who his peers seem to hold in great esteem given they've voted him manager of the year as many times as they have Fergie. Yes of course it would be a risk but so is virtually any manager.
Someone like Mourinho is of course ahead of Moyes if he wanted it but I think to say Moyes couldn't do it/would be out of his depth is very harsh on a manager who his peers seem to hold in great esteem given they've voted him manager of the year as many times as they have Fergie. Yes of course it would be a risk but so is virtually any manager.
His Madrid spell hasn't exactly been some roaring success, some people want him sacked. One La Liga and a Copa del Rey isn't a great return from that squad of players.
WTF is Everton if not a tier 2 club?
Some people want every Real Madrid coach sacked. Capello went there twice, won the league twice, never got a second straight season. Madrid may have a great squad, but they've got one heck of a challenge in Barcelona - which they conquered once - and europe can always go either way. Mourinho didn't manage to take Chelsesa to the final.
nah, tier 1 is your biggest clubs in europe, have massive history, big money, recent success, big expectations.
tier 2 are decentl sized clubs that get into the Cl every other year and sugar daddy clubs
tier 3 and 4 are your clubs like spurs and possibly everton.
talking to someone isn't the same as going through the CL grind every year.
It too fergie quite a while to really figure out the CL himself and he's 100000000x the manager moyes is with prior european success.
manager of the month is like fecking golden gloves. sound like scousers parroting about it.
OK, On a European level that's fair enough. I was talking about a Prem level.
Manager of the year is quite an achievement.
Not manager of the month, manager of the year, a record he joint holds with Ferguson, voted for by other managers, not pundits, journalists etc but people who know exactly how tough each perspective management job is.
Talking to someone isn't the same you're right but if you have the right qualities as Moyes has shown he has domestically there's no reason he can't translate that on the european stage. Just as prior european experience doesn't guarantee success no experience doesn't guarantee failure.
Yeah I know all that man, I obviously assessed his tenure in light of considerations such as those. How would you rate his time there? It's been very average IMO.
This is a better squad than the one he had at Chelsea. Madrid don't play like a team in the way Dortmund or Barca do for example, they seem to have no cohesion or philosophy. But in terms of individuals there team is ridiculous and not far at all of Barca's. This isn't a problem which started with Mourinho but Madrid don't get the most out of their players, particularly in the big games. Some of the tactics he has deployed against Barca have been embarassing IMO and I'm not a Madrid fan, having such expressive players in the team and playing in such reserved manner.
I agree the Champions League can go either way, but at the same time you get what you deserve and in niether year did they deserve to progress. Barcelona outplayed them in 11 and last year penalties flattered them against Bayern. They were second best in both legs.
Like Arsenal Chelsea Man City
If their focus is so good why do they often have long periods where they can barely win a match? Why do they almost invariably lose derby matches? They finish around where one would expect for the quality of players that they've got, their performances aren't to do with Moyes' psychological effect. If it were then a player like Arteta would have dropped off sharply when he left nut he hasn't, in fact I'd say he's twice the player now.
I don't think there is any ambitious club in the world who would appoint David Moyes over multi-national trophy machine Fabio Capello.
If his priority is to get a CL place then he fails every year, if that's his plan, that's his goal, then he is a loser. Maybe you think this shouldn't be held against him, because it's virtually impossible to get into the Top 4 with Everton, but if it is then that's exactly why he should be prioritising the Europa League. The only real difference between 5th place and 15th place is a small percentage of the TV money from the Premier League and a place in the Europa League, what the hell is the point in "laying down a marker" by achieving that if you've no interest in being competitive in the Europa League anyway.
Liverpool were screwed in 2009/10 because they failed to qualify for the Champions League, it made no difference whether they finished 8th or whether they finished 5th, prioritising the Europa League was absolutely the correct move, even if they didn't eventually win it. Winning a European trophy and finishing in lower mid-table is better than winning feck all and finishing in upper mid-table. Prioritise a Champions League place by all means, but if you can't get that and you're in no danger of relegation then prioritise the Europa League over qualifying for it.
It's not exactly a massive shock that the two longest serving British managers in Premier League football have been given the most awards for manager of the season, and it's not exactly a reliable barometer of who is a good manager. Steve Coppell has won it twice, Joe Kinnear's won it, Liverpool appointed Woy on the basis of his success in this award and that turned out brilliantly for them.
It should also be noted that he's never won the Premier League Manager of the Year award, the one he's won is voted for by managers throughout the Football League, most of whom have never managed in the Premier League in their careers, and likely couldn't give a damn about who wins it.
Moyes has plenty of European experience, the problem is that it's experience of consistent failure.
Capello is one of the very few serious options who I'd be less keen on than Moyes. Yes, he's won a lot of trophies. But he's a seriously diminished force, doesn't suit modern football at all, and his style is the opposite of the sort of football Manchester United should be playing.
fecking hell. We know you don't like Moyes, but you're being ridiculous. Why are you trying to downplay the LMA Manager of the Year award so much, it's pathetic. You could at least attempt to be objective.
Hodgson deserved to win it in 2010, the same way Pardew deserved to win in in 2012. Both were worse the following year but that doesn't take anything away from the orginal achievement.
All that is a moot point anyway, because Moyes hasn't dropped his standard after winning the award. He's consistently overachieved with Everton and has rightfully been recognised as doing a fantastic job - hence the awards.
I know mate, doesn't mean it won't be hard. The admiration and respect I have for Fergie is massive. A loss like that I would guess will be felt in some way by every fan.
I'd have liked to have seen Moyes at Spurs really. Everton - United seems too big a step up for a manager. Had he gone to Spurs we'd have learned a lot more about him. I'm not downplaying his achievements at Everton because I think he's done a fantastic job, just not sure we can know if he's the right man for us until he proves himself at a bigger club first.
I respect what Moyes has done at Everton especially with such a limited budget. However, I don't believe that he is a big enough of a personality to handle the United job. He lacks the charisma, the media savvy, the moxie that is needed at United.
It took 17 years after Busby retired the first time for us to get Ferguson, I am not sure I have that much time left. For me it's somebody bigger than Moyes, perhaps Mourinho.
It took 17 years after Busby retired the first time for us to get Ferguson, I am not sure I have that much time left. For me it's somebody bigger than Moyes, perhaps Mourinho.
You need to think like the owners, its not a popularity contest. United is a big business. Therefore you don't take massive risks and need proven quality for the person who will run & drive your operations.
Therefore, owners will never pick Moyes.
He has never won anything nor manage a club that comes even half the size of United. Its almost like the Scousers taking a chance on Big Bren when we really dont have to?
The clear proven choices are Pep (pretty way of playing and good record with bring up the youth) or Mourinho (offers guaranteed returns).
End of.
Therefore, owners will never pick Moyes.
He has never won anything nor manage a club that comes even half the size of United. Its almost like the Scousers taking a chance on Big Bren when we really dont have to?
The clear proven choices are Pep (pretty way of playing and good record with bring up the youth) or Mourinho (offers guaranteed returns).
End of.
Yep, if he went to a bigger club that could fight for CL qualification then we could learn more about him. Can he succeed in Europe? Can he win trophies? Etc etc, but right now I would not be sold on Moyes as SAF's successor.
Based on what? His last 3 seasons in club management his teams have won the League title, with England he had the best win record of any England manager ever.
We know you don't like Moyes, but you're being ridiculous. Why are you trying to downplay the LMA Manager of the Year award so much, it's pathetic. You could at least attempt to be objective.
Hodgson deserved to win it in 2010, the same way Pardew deserved to win in in 2012. Both were worse the following year but that doesn't take anything away from the orginal achievement.
All that is a moot point anyway, because Moyes hasn't dropped his standard after winning the award. He's consistently overachieved with Everton and has rightfully been recognised as doing a fantastic job - hence the awards.
It's not downplaying it, it's evaluating it as a an indicator of managers' future performances. He didn't deserve any of the awards he won - in 2003 Ferguson should have won it for reclaiming the title from Arsenal, in 2005 Benitez won the European Cup and Mourinho's Chelsea got the highest points total ever, and in 2009 Ferguson has his United team close to immortality, it's amazing that he got those awards over managers who achieved so much more.
In any case, even if he did deserve them, it's not a good way to select a future manager for the club. Hypothetically if Moyes wasn't interested, let's say he's been snapped up by Real Madrid or Barcelona when Ferguson quits, would you give Coppell and Wenger serious consideration as Ferguson's successors, given that they're next after Moyes in the list of most LMA awards?
As for overachieving, I'm not really convinced, they won more in the 7 years before he arrived that in the 10 years since, albeit not by a huge amount. He constantly fails in Europe, and if the excuse for that is that he's prioritising qualifying for the CL, he constantly fails at that as well. The League finishes have been reasonably good, but nothing spectacular. They breached the Top 4 7 years ago when Liverpool were concentrating on the CL and haven't come close to matching that achievement since.
The difference is, you put no value in keeping a team consistently placed in a very competitive PL year after year on a shoestring. I do.
well said kieto.
i'd rather appoint schteve mclaren than gollum.
when RM sack JM this season, I'm sure they'll be on the blower trying to get Moyes.
i'd rather appoint schteve mclaren than gollum.
when RM sack JM this season, I'm sure they'll be on the blower trying to get Moyes.
I put value in it, if I was a fan of a team whose ambitions were to hover around 7th place in the Premier League I'd be delighted to see Moyes come to my club because he's proven he can do it. I'm a fan of Manchester United though, a team whose ambitions are to win a lot of trophies and be among the best in Europe, so I'd like a manager who has proven that he can do those things.
There's not much point talking about the LMA awards. For one, they're just awards, two, we clearly see them differently and place emphasis on different things, you seem to think they should go to whoever won the league whereas I place more weight on overperforming with a weak team - e.g Coppell getting Reading promoted and coming 8th in his first season. That to me deserves the award.
Like I said before, the inevitable downslide most managers will go through afterwards does nothing to take away from the initial success. Say Newcastle continue to struggle and finish 15th, that doesn't change the fact Pardew did an incredible job last season. So when you mockingly talk about Coppell it's doing him a disservice, at the time he pulled off a real achievement. And I would snap Wengers hand off if Fergie retires.
Back to Moyes, he has definitely overachieved on a limited budget. You are changing history by saying they were better off before him. Here is the results pre Moyes,
97 - 15th
98 - 17th
99 - 14th
00 - 13th
01 - 16th
02 - 15th
After Moyes,
03 - 7th
04 - 17th
05 - 4th
06 - 11th
07 - 6th
08 - 5th
09 - 5th
10 - 8th
11 - 7th
12 - 7th
Everton has a limited team and a very small squad, the latter part often gets overlooked. I mean Pienaar is one of Evertons best players, but at Tottenham he couldn't get a kick. Moyes undeniably gets the most out of an unspectacular side, players like Naismith wouldn't get a look in at other teams challenging for a top 6 finish. He also tends to buy quite well, Jelavic and Mirallas have been great recent signings.
Baines, Jagielka, Distin, Howard, Cahill, Fellaini, Lescott, Arteta, Heitinga, Saha in the past were all very good and unexpensive. Like others have said, on that budget he couldn't have done much better.
With expectations for us to challenge in the Premiership and Europe every year to help us maintain our significant financial commitments, please tell me why we would even consider hiring a manager whose only honors have been promotion from the second division with Preston and FA Cup runners up with Everton?
So what if he has overachieved with a mid table club? Hiring him on the basis that 'he might do well given the right players' is insane.
So what if he has overachieved with a mid table club? Hiring him on the basis that 'he might do well given the right players' is insane.
United is a very famous club with lots of histories, charisma and well known players.
It needs a very high profile manager who can keep all their players together.
Moyes is not in that category. He may good in getting the team to play efficiently but may not be able to control or inspire some of the well known players.
I think it will be between Mourinho and Guadiola as both of their images and track records suited United.
Mourinho should be given first priority as he has voiced openly that he wants the job.
It needs a very high profile manager who can keep all their players together.
Moyes is not in that category. He may good in getting the team to play efficiently but may not be able to control or inspire some of the well known players.
I think it will be between Mourinho and Guadiola as both of their images and track records suited United.
Mourinho should be given first priority as he has voiced openly that he wants the job.
How the hell is Pep more proven ?
Not proven in this league, has had only had 1 managerial job in his career and even there had a breakdown in 3 years in what was his home club. Also, his record in the transfer market was shit with Zlatan, Chygrynsky and the likes.
If that wasn't for Barca's squad those signings would have hurt big time.
Yeah, he deserves credit for having success with Barca, but playing attractive football with those lot is something which someone who isn't half dumb could have done.
Look at Rijkaard who did a great Job (arguably better than Pep turning them around and building 2 teams) there but then went and got sacked with Galatasaray.
Seriously though guys, of those of you talking up Moyes, if he was appointed how many of you would react by punching the air & shouting YES! and how many with a kind of muted 'oh'.
Who celebrates managerial appointments?
I think you've kind of missed the point there.
Moyes would certainly be my manager of choice. I'd be happy with Mourinho, less so with Pep Guardiola, but Moyes imo is the best man for the United job as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't react how you describe though; you're a bit gay.
Would Moyes be given as much time as someone like a Mourinho? If things start out badly there's a worry the fans might turn on him quickly; a poor result in Europe and you'd get everyone saying "he has no experience". The press will love sticking the dagger in and bringing up Fergie comparisons. We also have no idea how the Glazers would react to a bad start by a new manager.
I think Mourinho could get away with a poor spell because of his proven record and relationship with the press.
I think Mourinho could get away with a poor spell because of his proven record and relationship with the press.
If he comes with SAF's backing then I think the next manager, whoever he is, will be given time to do his job. The press can feck off, they couldn't be more of an irrelevance; as long as SAF supports his successor then the fans should take notice and have patience.
cider, if moyes is our manager we cannot make any more "quad and treble it's on" threads at the beginning of the season, nqat.
Why? What better time to make them than at the beginning of the season?
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