I'm sure it must be incredibly difficult to get the reigning champions higher than seventh.
Moyes has to go
- Thread starter Orton
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I'm sure it must be incredibly difficult to get the reigning champions higher than seventh.
I don't know about that, but I am sure of the effect that it can have on an institution like ours when the man that pretty much built the club as it is now leaves after almost 30 years, and the CEO goes too.
I'm glad I haven't reached the stage yet where I am completely against Moyes, and totally convinced that everything is happening simply because he isn't up to the job. I'm glad because it means I don't have to keep agonising over one question: If he is so inept then why haven't the club sacked him yet?
Ferguson's evil influence over the club. He must be stopped.
I don't know. Obviously there's a big effect when the man who was manager for 26 years goes. But of course we have to remember that while for us it was the full 26 years, it's not been for the players. When it comes to the team, none of them have worked with him for that sort of time. Several have worked with him for a year, two years, three years, which is no different to what happened to them in other clubs. I mean, Van Persie worked with Wenger for many more years. I don't feel the effect on the team itself should have been as seismic as it appears.
Because influential people are blinded by the romantic notion that we're morally superior to other clubs and are willing to give Moyes more time than he deserves as a result.
Any other club in the world would have given him the boot by now.
This
The size of the task that is going to be incredibly difficult when it comes to replacing Fergie is really the long term. Was the person going to be able to do what he did, build successful teams over and over, letting go of popular players and replacing with youth - often from our own academy, adapting to the ever changing climate of football and do this while maintaining the overall principals. All of that those are the difficult tasks in replacing Fergie.
Taking what was maybe not a great squad but, still a very good squad and keeping them competitive in the short term was never ever seen as incredibly difficult task. Yet, some how Moyes has been able to make it just that. We can't score goals, we can't defend, we can't keep the ball, we don't even look like a premier league side often enough, let alone a top side.
The simplest task of all he the ones he will face he has done a very bad job at - so it's hard to have faith in being able to do the ones that will take a lot more effort and vision.
This. It just strikes me as another excuse to accept failure.
Pretty much this.
Though I'm sure the club/Ferguson/Charlton never expected him to do this poorly, though they're all sticking to their laurels out of pride and reluctance to admit they were wrong. I suspect they want him to stay on on the off chance he might turn things round next season.
We're still stuck a little in our own little twilight zone, created by the wonderful situation brought upon by Fergie's incredibly long reign, at a time football has changed so much. We have progressed in the commercial department, but the football side was able to keep in touch with the way things used to be simply because we had the same manager since 1986 and he was the strongest man at the club. For the last 20 years clubs have been replacing managers left, right or centre, and we didn't even have to think about that.
What people need to realize is that a lot of what we've known for years as 'given' is no longer that once Fergie is no longer the manager.
This will be a season we'll have to ensure but I think a great summer will see a new determination. We need to scare teams again. It'll be a big summer for Moyes. It doesn't have to be big names so much as the right players. Adnan's done well but we could do with a Nani in addition on form or a winger that excites people (Zaha). Extra bite and leadership in midfield and maybe opportunities for certain youngsters. We also have to get rid of a few players who aren't good enough to warrant so many games.
Definitely a case of Rafa chickens coming home to roost.
But David Moyes is cut from the same cloth as Ferguson....
I think if he stops trying to do everything he'll be fine. So let the head scout be the head scout and bring Queiroz in (if he wants the job after Iran, he hasn't ruled it out). If not get a proper assistant.
Ferguson got away with Phelan but Moyes being new needs a Queiroz, such is the man's love for United, if we paid him well I do think he would sign on for a season, if not two.
Moyes needs to become a world class manager as opposed to a world class jack of all trades. He simply doesn't have the time to do everything as he did at Everton, we have too many games per season and too many commercial obligations to fill.
I think if he stops trying to do everything he'll be fine. So let the head scout be the head scout and bring Queiroz in (if he wants the job after Iran, he hasn't ruled it out). If not get a proper assistant.
Ferguson got away with Phelan but Moyes being new needs a Queiroz, such is the man's love for United, if we paid him well I do think he would sign on for a season, if not two.
Moyes needs to become a world class manager as opposed to a world class jack of all trades. He simply doesn't have the time to do everything as he did at Everton, we have too many games per season and too many commercial obligations to fill.
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What should be beyond all reasonable doubt is that Moyes needs help. Phil "The Thrill" Neville just doesn't cut it. I don't have names to suggest, but Moyes really needs a highly qualified top lieutenant, someone who understands tactics and know where to place the cones in the training ground; and he needs a Director of Football, someone who see the bigger picture of the footballing side of the business and be a brake on Moyes's daft ideas in the transfer market (25m for Fabregas but 27.5m for Fellaini).
Manchester United to football is something like the equivalent of GM of the auto world. It just can't be properly managed by one man, unless that man Sir Alex Ferguson or Jose Mourinho. I'm not even sure Pep could have done it all by himself. Give Moyes the tools to succeed next season and he just might.
Manchester United to football is something like the equivalent of GM of the auto world. It just can't be properly managed by one man, unless that man Sir Alex Ferguson or Jose Mourinho. I'm not even sure Pep could have done it all by himself. Give Moyes the tools to succeed next season and he just might.
Saw this in the United FB page 
(Don't show it to Drummer)
The reality is that he is going to be the manager here next season, backing from SAF and the carefully orchestrated letter to season ticket holders in the face of recent fan unrest, buying time, which being pessimistic could be coming from the glazer's fear of lack of season ticket renewal. Free museum tour anyone? The problem for him now is that this season, by his own admission, was worse than expected and he has to get the Summer squad adjustments spot on, however... when you can't offer CL football, in a World Cup Summer where there is a melee for players at inflated prices you have to have doubts whether he can achieve that. The only chance you have is if you throw mad money at it, but are the glazers really prepared to do that, as I suspect that one of the main reasons they got him in in the first place was his record of signing competent players with a restricted budget. The Summer is going to make or break it, and it will be only happening in August because of the World Cup.
I think we all know that, sadly.
I can already see that turning into an excuse for his failure next season.
Moyes has again stumbled onto the lineup we have all been demanding for this game, the question is, is he just resting Young, Valencia and Cleverly for Liverpool? 
Moyes has again stumbled onto the lineup we have all been demanding for this game, the question is, is he just resting Young, Valencia and Cleverly for Liverpool?
A week til that game you'd hope not. He should be playing this team against them and using today as a springboard for them which is exactly what I said before the lineup was announced today.
If he does revert back to that comfort blanket side it'll be a huge huge mistake.
He's picked the right team and made the right substitutions. It's only taken 2/3rds of a season, but it's a start.
We've had these false dawns before though. No real different to the Palace game this one and after that we chucked in the Olympiakos debacle.
If I was being picky I could say both goals were still headers from crosses, and our only other big chance was too. We're still not creating well at all...But it's a fecking start to play the right people. Should've been evident, and was to everyone else, but you can't give him stick for any of his game day decisions today.
THAT on the other hand, is more like it.
All his decisions have been correct day - West Brom are in poor, poor form though.
Need to see some of this against the Scouse and City and I'll be impressed.
Need to see some of this against the Scouse and City and I'll be impressed.
The moment the pressure was off the players started passing the ball really well, how do you get them to start games this confident is the issue, if moyes can fix that we'll have very good end to the season.
yeah but nobodies saying we'll never lose again are they? it can still be a good, encouraging match even if it's followed by a bad one
Like against Palace, this set-up allows us to play a bit of football, especially when Carrick and Fellaini are on their game.
First time I think that he got everything right. Starting with the line-up and subbing off RvP and Adnan.
Let's hope he sticks with this system now, we played it against Palace and looked decent then went back to a 4-4-2 with Young and Valencia in the game against Olympiakos. Keep this system and build on it.
I think he will. I also hope he will get rid of the deadwood unable to play that way.
Yep. I hope he continues doing this. If we'll have here next season too, then hopefully he improves and tries to emulate this performance instead of Fulham/Olympiacos ones.
Reckon we'll have a strong finish to the season, should really be finishing 5th at the lowest. Not only that, Liverpool still have to play us, city, chelsea, and spurs.
Great starting lineup and good tactics I suppose. Made a good call by taking off RVP who was gonna be red carded. Let's see the next match and how we play now because we've been down this road before (a few improvement in one match and two steps back for the next).
the attacking prowess of city and liverpool are in a different world to WBA. I'm holding all judgement until after those games. But wow what a relief to see some attacking passing football from united....in the last 20
Yep.
This was a good game for him, but it still remains to be seen if he actually understands that this is our best lineup.
If he starts with Young, Cleverley and Valencia against Liverpool then he goes straight back in the dog house for me.
He needs to stick with this lineup as his first 11. Small changes for rotation purposes are ofcourse understandable, but a full on wide approach with Young and Tony should not be seen again if Moyes truly understands why this match went as well as it did.
If he starts with Young, Cleverley and Valencia against Liverpool then he goes straight back in the dog house for me.
He needs to stick with this lineup as his first 11. Small changes for rotation purposes are ofcourse understandable, but a full on wide approach with Young and Tony should not be seen again if Moyes truly understands why this match went as well as it did.
He picked the best available 11 and made subs that positively influenced the game.
Credit to him.
Credit to him.