Moyes has to go

[Empire]

Arsenal:

(Bayern - away)
Spurs (a)
Chelsea (a)
Swansea (h)
Man City (h)
Everton (a)
Hull City (a)
Newcastle (h)
WBA (h)
Norwich (a)

I can see them dropping 11 points therefore Moyes still can redeem himself although it requires him winning every game between now and the end. I do think the players are winners and a victory over Liverpool provides strong impetus. The main thing Moyes needs to get right is the team selection and the instructions he gives his players so I will be intrigued to see whether Young or Valencia play much of a role or not from this point forth.

I'm aware it's near impossible United win every game however since the club has made a name for itself doing highly unlikely things I won't rule it out until I see them drop two more points.

Out of curiosity, if Moyes hypothetically puts together a winning run between now and the end to secure fourth but flops next season again, do we afford him time?

So say Ferguson didn't get top four, we obviously wouldn't sack him due to his history. What must Moyes show to be afforded two or three seasons to get it right?

 

[Lu Tze]

Arsenal:

Out of curiosity, if Moyes hypothetically puts together a winning run between now and the end to secure fourth but flops next season again, do we afford him time?

So say Ferguson didn't get top four, we obviously wouldn't sack him due to his history. What must Moyes show to be afforded two or three seasons to get it right?

Personally, absolutely not. I've firmly supported Moyes this season, with the condition that at the end of next season we'll be in the CL and have presented a credible title challenge.

He needs to show improvement, and if he can't do that in 4 transfer windows and 2 years then his time will be up.

 

[Tibs]

If he takes us to 4th this season, he deserves a trophy for that

 

[Danny1982]

Arsenal:

(Bayern - away)
Spurs (a)
Chelsea (a)
Swansea (h)
Man City (h)
Everton (a)
Hull City (a)
Newcastle (h)
WBA (h)
Norwich (a)

I can see them dropping 11 points therefore Moyes still can redeem himself although it requires him winning every game between now and the end. I do think the players are winners and a victory over Liverpool provides strong impetus. The main thing Moyes needs to get right is the team selection and the instructions he gives his players so I will be intrigued to see whether Young or Valencia play much of a role or not from this point forth.

I'm aware it's near impossible United win every game however since the club has made a name for itself doing highly unlikely things I won't rule it out until I see them drop two more points.

Out of curiosity, if Moyes hypothetically puts together a winning run between now and the end to secure fourth but flops next season again, do we afford him time?

So say Ferguson didn't get top four, we obviously wouldn't sack him due to his history. What must Moyes show to be afforded two or three seasons to get it right?

What do you mean by "flop"?

4 transfer windows (with enough money available) and 2 full seasons should be enough for him to get us back to a position close to the one we were at before he took over. If he can't do it, then the chances he can do it in a third season is so low that it would definitely be worth it to sack him, and look for a better alternative.

 

[Amir]

If he takes us to 4th this season, he deserves a trophy for that

And then he deserves that the trophy be taken away for making us play qualifiers.

I certainly don't expect us to finish fourth. I don't believe Moyes is the right man, but as it's not up to me, good football and signs the team is gelling and is able to create chances (at 0-0 as well...) would be something I can live with ahead of him getting a second season. But while I can already see the excuses (It's was a World cup year, it's hard to buy, pre season was a mess with all the players arriving late), there shouldn't be any reprieve from a second year like this. CL would be an absolute minimum next season and the bar could be set higher, depending on how we do in the transfer market this summer and not having some huge injury crisis.

 

[FineYoungCasual]

And then he deserves that the trophy be taken away for making us play qualifiers.

I certainly don't expect us to finish fourth. I don't believe Moyes is the right man, but as it's not up to me, good football and signs the team is gelling and is able to create chances (at 0-0 as well...) would be something I can live with ahead of him getting a second season. But while I can already see the excuses (It's was a World cup year, it's hard to buy, pre season was a mess with all the players arriving late), there shouldn't be any reprieve from a second year like this. CL would be an absolute minimum next season and the bar could be set higher, depending on how we do in the transfer market this summer and not having some huge injury crisis.

Good post.

 

[FineYoungCasual]

What do you mean by "flop"?

4 transfer windows (with enough money available) and 2 full seasons should be enough for him to get us back to a position close to the one we were at before he took over. If he can't do it, then the chances he can do it in a third season is so low that it would definitely be worth it to sack him, and look for a better alternative.

Completely agree with this as well.

It bothers me that some fans are leaning toward excuses for next season already.

 

[Sky1981]

The sad thing is.. if he indeed push on with a last 10 game surge and finish 5th, people will regards him as genious, chosen one emerges from the ashes and stuff, while neglecting the very fact that he finish 5th with the reigning champion.

We got all hyped up for next season, only for him to crawl over and managed to get 4th, then the next season is our year repeat ad infinitum.

It's not about 4th, but whether he has what it takes to takes us beyond 4th, at this rate, people only thinks that 4th is the holy grail. Let me ask you this, what after 4th? Do you honestly, seriously, hands in heart, thinks he can go toe to toe with Ancelloti, Mourinho, Pep, and all other top managers managing top teams in a tactical battle? I dont

 

[Red Dreams]

I expect us to win the title next season. simple. If he gets close...2 or 3....and win one of the cups....we should let him have another season.

 

[Gannicus]

We can't worry about the summer of 2015 right now. The only relevant question is whether Malcolm should keep David if he claws us back to 5th.

4th is out of the question, though if we do claw back to 4th then obviously David will have bought himself a second round.

 

[sglowrider]

I expect us to win the title next season. simple. If he gets close...2 or 3....and win one of the cups....we should let him have another season.

You serious? City and Chelski's spending and superstar manager powers respectively?

Fergie's advice to a young manager was to see the relationship with the owner/chairman. I assume that for players, it would be the manager (besides the pay etc.)

Who could Moyes attract on the continent to come play for us? The only was is to play Rooney type salaries -- and we then get into the realms of a RM, City situation, all of which aren't sustainable for our business model.

 

[Escobar]

He's still not the right manager for us. We beat a poor PL team 3-0 and the mood changes again. Our season has been poor (not just in terms of table) and too many things are just not right. I honestly doubt that will change next season. On top, to miss top 4 whilst being champions by 11pts is just not acceptable.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

If he ever wears a hoody on the touchline, he should be sacked on the spot.

 

[Sixpence]

He's still not the right manager for us. We beat a poor PL team 3-0 and the mood changes again. Our season has been poor (not just in terms of table) and too many things are just not right. I honestly doubt that will change next season. On top, to miss top 4 whilst being champions by 11pts is just not acceptable.

Sense at last. We beat a couple of relegation teams and suddenly he needs more time and will get it right. As soon as we play a proper side, we lose. That has been proven all season long.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Sense at last. We beat a couple of relegation teams and suddenly he needs more time and will get it right. As soon as we play a proper side, we lose. That has been proven all season long.

Apart from, you know, the 4 points from two games against Arsenal.

It's not as though the last time we played them was all that long ago, was it?

 

[Tomalonge]

How could you get rid of our Dave? He's amazing. He does all of this without eyebrows, what a staggeringly exceptional man he is.

 

[Cedric]

Apart from, you know, the 4 points from two games against Arsenal.

It's not as though the last time we played them was all that long ago, was it?

Also don't forget about Leverkusen, they aren't too shabby either.

 

[Tomalonge]

Also don't forget about Leverkusen, they aren't too shabby either.

You know the only response you'll get is "we played Leverkusen and Arsenal at their very worst".

I'm trying to convince a brick wall about Moyes at the moment, getting further than I ever did in this thread.

 

[SirAF]

I'd be fine with top 5, Europe and top 3 next season. Gotta build a new foundation and evolve, which takes time.

I agree. I'd actually prefer no Europe this season, if we are not making it to 4th.

 

[Tomalonge]

I agree. I'd actually prefer no Europe this season, if we are not making it to 4th.

So ignore the revenue we'd get from the Europa league because you don't think it's an attractive enough competition.

Ground-breaking logic there.

 

[Pexbo]

I agree. I'd actually prefer no Europe this season, if we are not making it to 4th.

Nah bollocks to that. If we're going to sign a bunch of world class players, I want to see them trash a bunch if European minows and walk to the Title.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

To be fair, this season has mainly consisted of the occasional hopeful performance followed by morale-destroying defeat. To make things worse those defeats have been as likely to be against mediocre teams as they have really good ones.

It would be ideal to have one or two more very winnable games to get some proper momentum before we face Liverpool and City. Ever since we signed Mata, there's been a sense of gradual improvement in our league form (which weirdly coincided with all our CL form going completely out the window) but I've a horrible feeling we'll be brought down to earth with a bump, yet again, in the next couple of weks.

 

[SirAF]

So ignore the revenue we'd get from the Europa league because you don't think it's an attractive enough competition.

Ground-breaking logic there.

Now, now. No reason to get snarly. We'd be better off focusing soly on the league in order to maximise our chances of getting back to the CL. Financially we'd be grand without Europe for a year, that is not a problem at all.

 

[SirAF]

Nah bollocks to that. If we're going to sign a bunch of world class players, I want to see them trash a bunch if European minows and walk to the Title.

That's a decent point, that would be quite fun. However, I think it would serve our league ambitions better if we don't have to focus on a minnow competition like that.

 

[bishblaize]

So ignore the revenue we'd get from the Europa league because you don't think it's an attractive enough competition.

Ground-breaking logic there.

In fairness its a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. I get both sides of the argument.

Yes there's revenue to be had, but really only from matchday income. Income from the competition itself is meagre, not in the same league as the CL. Its no so much that its a no brainer to be in it.

On the other hand you get several downsides. Lots of east European teams floating around, meaning long journeys, poor pitches and pumped up opposition for whom this is their biggest game in a decade. You also have to play Thursday-Sunday many weeks. Not only do you arrive back in the country barely 48 hours before the game, your opponents will have had an extra rest compared to you. Plus playing Sunday every week is a bummer, you're always playing catch up.

Right now my view is that given the size of our squad, need for development of the team and need to ensure that all available income is secured, the Europa League is, just, preferable to not having it. But I sometimes change my mind.

 

[Tomalonge]

Now, now. No reason to get snarly. We'd be better off focusing soly on the league in order to maximise our chances of getting back to the CL. Financially we'd be grand without Europe for a year, that is not a problem at all.

You're still saying turn down revenue because you don't like the competition though. Why should they focus on solely the league for a season? What possible use would that be to us? Money aside, the new signings would have to get used to the busy schedule anyway and the best way of doing that is by playing games. It's not against the European elite, sure, but who says we have to play our first team? The second I realised we were probably heading for the Europa I figured that those games would be vital to our up and coming players to sink their teeth into.

I'm not getting snarly at all, I just point stupid out, and to be fair you've given me a nice healthy dose there.

 

[SirAF]

You're still saying turn down revenue because you don't like the competition though. Why should they focus on solely the league for a season? What possible use would that be to us? Money aside, the new signings would have to get used to the busy schedule anyway and the best way of doing that is by playing games. It's not against the European elite, sure, but who says we have to play our first team? The second I realised we were probably heading for the Europa I figured that those games would be vital to our up and coming players to sink their teeth into.

I'm not getting snarly at all, I just point stupid out, and to be fair you've given me a nice healthy dose there.

Do you think it is stupid to assume that we'd have a better chance in the league with a less demandig schedule? Now, I'm not resorting to calling your points stupid. They are valid enough, but I don't agree with them.

 

[SirAF]

In fairness its a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. I get both sides of the argument.

Yes there's revenue to be had, but really only from matchday income. Income from the competition itself is meagre, not in the same league as the CL. Its no so much that its a no brainer to be in it.

On the other hand you get several downsides. Lots of east European teams floating around, meaning long journeys, poor pitches and pumped up opposition for whom this is their biggest game in a decade. You also have to play Thursday-Sunday many weeks. Not only do you arrive back in the country barely 48 hours before the game, your opponents will have had an extra rest compared to you. Plus playing Sunday every week is a bummer, you're always playing catch up.

Right now my view is that given the size of our squad, need for development of the team and need to ensure that all available income is secured, the Europa League is, just, preferable to not having it. But I sometimes change my mind.

That's a good answer.

 

[Tomalonge]

Do you think it is stupid to assume that we'd have a better chance in the league with a less demandig schedule?

No. Feel free to either show me where it looks like that's my point or take it back. There's no need to get ridiculous.

 

[Amir]

Right now my view is that given the size of our squad, need for development of the team and need to ensure that all available income is secured, the Europa League is, just, preferable to not having it. But I sometimes change my mind.

I wonder if the squad won't be trimmed down next season. The list of players who may go is pretty big and some will surely be staying, but we probably still won't need replacements for everyone going.

 

[jem]

I'm just curious - what purpose exactly does that snipe fulfill? You might pretend there's nothing but a touch of humour to it, but there's obviously a lot of bitterness beneath the layers, too.

Does it make Sultan apologize for whatever damage, real or perceived, he has done to you ego? Will it make him see your side of the argument? Does it in some way alleviate your anger? Do you think it will enhance your reputation as a 'daring rebel' on this forum? Does expressing your bitterness about being put on probation somehow make you forget it? Will someone read that and 'right the wrong' done to you? Do you feel dramatic/heroic/smart making such comments? Will Jaybezia become your BFF?

I have no intention to 'preach' to you. I've read and commented on your posts, I think they're well written, and that you are a quite intelligent and rational poster, probably much older than I am. It is just weird watching such people suddenly stoop down to do something of such childish folly.

As you were.

And yet....

 

[bishblaize]

Arsenal:

(Bayern - away)
Spurs (a)
Chelsea (a)
Swansea (h)
Man City (h)
Everton (a)
Hull City (a)
Newcastle (h)
WBA (h)
Norwich (a)

I think 4th place is at risk for Arsenal. Trouble is Spurs and Everton are better placed than us to get it.

 

[Danny1982]

I think 4th place is at risk for Arsenal. Trouble is Spurs and Everton are better placed than us to get it.

I think Arsenal are at a bit less risk than the points suggest because the other contenders are unlikely to go near perfect the rest of the way. We're too far behind, Everton are not good enough, and Tottenham are just bottlers.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

And yet....

Well, guilty.

I just go off my fecking rocker at times.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Massive test for him this weekend. I'm hoping to baby Jesus we see some sort of maintained team selection and consistency. We have better players than Liverpool, they have the better system. Could be an interesting game.

 

[Getsme]

Massive test for him this weekend. I'm hoping to baby Jesus we see some sort of maintained team selection and consistency. We have better players than Liverpool, they have the better system. Could be an interesting game.

I agree.
He has to pick the best team he can, yes we have an important UCL game coming up, but to me this is the game that could keep the fans off his back.
I hope to God he doesn't revert back into his safe mode and play a Young and Valencia, if he does I fear we will have lost before the whistles even blown.

 

[Jaap]

For once, I would actually like to see the same team he set out against West Brom.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree.
He has to pick the best team he can, yes we have an important UCL game coming up, but to me this is the game that could keep the fans off his back.
I hope to God he doesn't revert back into his safe mode and play a Young and Valencia, if he does I fear we will have lost before the whistles even blown.

He'll have lost every last trace of goodwill from the fans anyway. Would be a truly bizarre decision.

 

[Blasphemy]

I think 4th place is at risk for Arsenal. Trouble is Spurs and Everton are better placed than us to get it.

They're only really at a risk from us if we win every game we have left. With Liverpool, City plus away games at Everton, Newcastle and Southampton I'd be surprised if we didn't at the very least draw three games which would pretty much seal the deal for us not finishing fourth. Not to mention it's not as though we're even on the up and in good form, I'd be very surprised if we didn't lose another 2 and draw 2 from our next 10 games, and even that would be an improvement in form.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

If he starts Young and Valencia he genuinely might be insane, in which case I feel even more sorry for the man.

I don't think he will. He'll probably start one of them though!