Moussa Dembele

He was amazing against us. I actually forgot what a beat he was physically. Also was very surprised by how hard he worked. Combined with his incredible dribbling ability he makes a scary proposition in midfield.

Regarding whether he is what we need, the answer is partly. Would love to have a defense minded version of him who rather than being able to beat a man at will, wouldn't get beat by a man. But while he's an attacking version of what we need he provides some things that would really improve us. Our midfield is a bit light. Players like toure walk all over us. We have a huge lack of physical presence in the middle. He woukd give us than. In addition having someone in the middle who makes driving runs from deep that cause opposition midfielders and defenders to brick it a big asset. Toure does it for city, Dembele would be very good at it.
 
Ash_G said:
I don't disagree with you that Dembele wouldn't add to the squad but like I said feasibly the only place he would come in, is instead of clev/ando and I don't see the point in that when both if they stay fit could become quality players in their own right, particularly cleverley.
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Well fair enough Ash we've made our points at length, i am not willing to trust to luck whether Tc and Ando are enough, even if they both stay fit which is a huge concern in itself.

You don't see enough benefit to sign Dembele, and SAF will probably agree with you. But for me we don't have enough even with Carrick, but without him we lack far too much defensively. TC and Ando are the best case scenario we can hope for really in Carrick's absence. How about if one of them gets injured along with Carrick?

Would TC and Scholes, or Ando and Giggs be enough? :eek:

In my view failure to address this problem now, could easily cost us very dearly at some point later in the season. It seems on this one we will simply have to agree to disagree! :)
 
apotheosis said:
Well fair enough Ash we've made our points at length, i am not willing to trust to luck whether Tc and Ando are enough, even if they both stay fit which is a huge concern in itself.

You don't see enough benefit to sign Dembele, and SAF will probably agree with you. But for me we don't have enough even with Carrick, but without him we lack far too much defensively. TC and Ando are the best case scenario we can hope for really in Carrick's absence. How about if one of them gets injured along with Carrick?

Would TC and Scholes, or Ando and Giggs be enough? :eek:

In my view failure to address this problem now, could easily cost us very dearly at some point later in the season. It seems on this one we will simply have to agree to disagree! :)
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Ah well that's a separate argument. You know I agree that we need cover for Carrick but much in the same way that I don't think Jones or Kagawa should be converted in to a dm or cm respectively despite having traits that could serve them and us well there, I don't think that we should sign someone who wouldn't naturally slot in to that role let alone want to do it. I'd rather we sign someone who plays their naturally. As I said though if we can't sign that person then I would be more than happy with Dembele, but personally I don't think he's ideal.
 
"Personally, I would like to go to the top. I think every player wants that. But I have the confidence to say that I want to play at a top club one day," the 25-year-old told Sport 1.
 
Ramshock said:
I think if Fergie lets Dembele go to a rival club it will speak volumes about his transfer policy and how he sees the make up of his midfield. Theres no way in hell he didnt notice how well Dembele played on saturday.
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I'm sure Delembe had the same effect on him as Cristiano Ronaldo did for Sporting in 2003.
 
can dembele play deeper with carrick?

He strikes me as a player that operates best in a free-midfield role/higher up the pitch and we have one of those in kagawa.

if we look at belgian midfielders: fellaini, witsel, defour...is dembele more suited to our needs than any of the others?
 
Very good player. Two extra questions here though:

1. Can he perform at the highest level?
2. Would Fulham sell their best player this late?
 
1. Can he perform at the highest level?
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Like playing against Manchester United? The guy has looked class from the moment he arrived in the Premiership.

2. Would Fulham sell their best player this late?
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If there's a release clause to trigger (supposed to be 15M), nothing they can do. Doubt they would otherwise, despite him being on his final year.

I wonder if the "5M bid" Jol mentioned was "5M now and we loan him to you for a year". Something along those lines wouldn't be bad at all for both parties.
 
antohan said:
Like playing against Manchester United? The guy has looked class from the moment he arrived in the Premiership.
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It's a different thing playing against a big team then in a big team in a big tournament like the CL for example. I've seen many decent players raising their game against us.
 
scholesy legend said:
It's a different thing playing against a big team then in a big team in a big tournament like the CL for example. I've seen many decent players raising their game against us.
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SAF signs a fair few players on the back of their performances against us: Saha, Yorke and Park are three that spring to mind. SAF especially likes players who come to OT and perform, which is why I feel that we might move for Dembele before the window closes.
 
VoetbalWizard said:
can dembele play deeper with carrick?

He strikes me as a player that operates best in a free-midfield role/higher up the pitch and we have one of those in kagawa.

if we look at belgian midfielders: fellaini, witsel, defour...is dembele more suited to our needs than any of the others?
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He is very comfortable as a proper box-to-box midfielder. He also times his jaunts forward amicably when his team are on the back foot and need positional discipline.

The thing with Dembele, which separates him from the majority of CM's, is his ability to break rank from a deep position with the ball and carry it right through the heart of midfield, past two or three players, and then lay it off to an attacker whilst maintaining a good defensive position himself (given he is behind the ball after the pass and very rarely loses it on the run or with a sloppy pass) which marks him as different to an Anderson or Giggs who are both known for their runs forward with the ball but also their errant passing.

He is no specialist as a defensive midfielder or deep-lying playmaker, but he is certainly competent enough to be the more responsible one in a pairing of CM's as he isn't the type of player who looks like he is being hamstrung by having to be the sitter next to a more exuberant CM partner, like, say, Cleverley.

Fletcher is about the only CM we have with his two-way game, and even then, Fletcher is more of a runner/harrying sort whose positioning, at times, leaves a lot to be desired.

In recent memory a good game to watch of Dembele being more responsible defensively is the England vs Belgium friendly. He was studious and sensible and made a lot less runs with the ball in favour of the safe and economical pass that kept his team in possession and him in position and control should the ball be turned over.
 
I can see Spurs going in for him now that they've sold Modric.
 
wr8_utd said:
I can see Spurs going in for him now that they've sold Modric.
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If he's serious about playing at the very top I don't think he'll go to Spurs. No disrespect to them obviously - it's just that if he goes there he's probably stuck there until the end of his career knowing Levy.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
SAF signs a fair few players on the back of their performances against us: Saha, Yorke and Park are three that spring to mind. SAF especially likes players who come to OT and perform, which is why I feel that we might move for Dembele before the window closes.
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Saha is a good example here. But he wanted to come to us, not any other club, and made it pretty clear that both clubs knew it. Dunno about Dembele. But Yorke was in a very good Villa side then. Reaching League Cup final and I think scored a lot of goals to make the side looked like title contenders. And Park played very well to reach semis in the World Cup and Champions League.
 
I still think he runs down blind alleys a lot. More often than not, nothing comes of his forward forays, and he dallies on the ball quite a lot.

Not sure about his passing either.

Physical beast though. Would certainly be an interesting signing, not sure it would improve us that much though.
 
marjen said:
I still think he runs down blind alleys a lot. More often than not, nothing comes of his forward forays, and he dallies on the ball quite a lot.

Not sure about his passing either.

Physical beast though. Would certainly be an interesting signing, not sure it would improve us that much though.
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His runs will result in much more end product when he's around better players. Caused us a lot of problems last game, just that others around him were useless.
 
Varun_Utd said:
His runs will result in much more end product when he's around better players. Caused us a lot of problems last game, just that others around him were useless.
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Hmm.. Not sure I agree.

I know he can thread a pass forward, I've seen him do it many times. But it's just like he doesn't seem to know how to pick his moments, when to pass and when to dribble one more guy.

Also, I'm not sure he gives us any cover for Carrick, which is our main problem in CM.
 
We seem to have a "flavour of the week" on the Caf.

Last week it was Fellaini.
 
marjen said:
Hmm.. Not sure I agree.

I know he can thread a pass forward, I've seen him do it many times. But it's just like he doesn't seem to know how to pick his moments, when to pass and when to dribble one more guy.

Also, I'm not sure he gives us any cover for Carrick, which is our main problem in CM.
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All of that can be worked upon, the ability is there to see. Nothing that world class coaches and Sir Alex cant improve in what you mentioned.

I dont want him though, not what we need unless there's a defensive aspect of his game that i havent noticed so far. We need cover for Carrick, he wont give that. Would improve us definitely but thats not reason enough to buy a player imo.
 
Varun_Utd said:
All of that can be worked upon, the ability is there to see. Nothing that world class coaches and Sir Alex cant improve in what you mentioned.

I dont want him though, not what we need unless there's a defensive aspect of his game that i havent noticed so far. We need cover for Carrick, he wont give that. Would improve us definitely but thats not reason enough to buy a player imo.
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He's physical and can put in a tackle, I'll give him that.

I just don't see that top midfielder in him. Possibly because he's in reality a forward playing as a midfielder.
 
I've heard a lot of people say we need another Carrick and I'm not sure about that. Ideally, need someone who can become or is top top quality. Carrick is good but he is not up there with the best. People are forgetting that even with Carrick our midfield has come up short on numerous occasions. Yaya Toure has bullied our midfield and Barcelona run rings around our midfield when Carrick has been in the side. So, I personally think we need a midfielder better than Carrick eventually. City have Toure, Real have Alonso, Chelsea used to have Essien and Barca have the best trio in the world (and Fabregas).

I mean going from Keane and Scholes to Carrick being your best is not ideal. So personally we need that one top player in midfield sooner rather than later. It's the one area of the pitch we don't have someone who would be the top bracket.

Of course, people aren't wrong when they say we need an alternative to Carrick either because he's the only midfielder we have who can defend.
 
marjen said:
I still think he runs down blind alleys a lot. More often than not, nothing comes of his forward forays, and he dallies on the ball quite a lot.
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I don't think that's fair given he plays for Fulham and sometimes has to make runs just to alleviate the pressure his team is under. He'll carry the ball a long way and then have nobody adjacent to him or making themselves available to pass to. Fulham don't have many clever outlets or one-touch players, so sometimes it is a case of needs must with that level of team-mate.

As an individual, however, there's no doubt he can improve his shooting and decision-making in the final third.

marjen said:
Not sure about his passing either.
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In what way?
marjen said:
Physical beast though. Would certainly be an interesting signing, not sure it would improve us that much though.
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He would help us by being a player we can rely on to go head-to-head with tall, powerful, physical players who bully us to no end the last few seasons, also, his ability to carry the ball yards and yards up the pitch demands attention from opposing managers and frees up lots of space for our attackers in turn.

There are lots of ways in which he has unique selling points in a squad like ours. He has attributes we lack and he is compatible in any combination of CM's we could put out. He'd be a very handy addition to the squad, imo.
 
Martin Jol has no worries about losing Moussa Dembele this week as he insists it would take a lot of money for Fulham to part with the Belgian.

Dembele has reportedly attracted attention from other clubs after a series of impressive performances for the Cottagers over the past couple of years.

He has started the new season in fine style, posing plenty of problems for Manchester United at Old Trafford on Saturday in a 3-2 defeat.

The way he played could lead to some late interest in the transfer market, but Jol doubts whether anyone will lodge a bid that would tempt Fulham to sell.

Dembele has always stressed that he is happy at Craven Cottage and remains a key part of Jol's plans, unlike somebody such as Clint Dempsey who has been left out so far this term after declaring a wish to move on.

Asked about Dembele, Jol said: "He plays and he likes the club, so there's no problem. You have to pay a lot of money to get Dembele.

"There won't be a lot of clubs putting that sort of money on the table, so I think we are fine."
 
wr8_utd said:
Martin Jol has no worries about losing Moussa Dembele this week as he insists it would take a lot of money for Fulham to part with the Belgian.

Dembele has reportedly attracted attention from other clubs after a series of impressive performances for the Cottagers over the past couple of years.

He has started the new season in fine style, posing plenty of problems for Manchester United at Old Trafford on Saturday in a 3-2 defeat.

The way he played could lead to some late interest in the transfer market, but Jol doubts whether anyone will lodge a bid that would tempt Fulham to sell.

Dembele has always stressed that he is happy at Craven Cottage and remains a key part of Jol's plans, unlike somebody such as Clint Dempsey who has been left out so far this term after declaring a wish to move on.

Asked about Dembele, Jol said: "He plays and he likes the club, so there's no problem. You have to pay a lot of money to get Dembele.

"There won't be a lot of clubs putting that sort of money on the table, so I think we are fine."
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Bluff.

Fulham need to sell this window to make any money from his transfer due to his contract situation, no?

Doubt they'd want him gone for peanuts come January or nothing next summer.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I've heard a lot of people say we need another Carrick and I'm not sure about that. Ideally, need someone who can become or is top top quality. Carrick is good but he is not up there with the best. People are forgetting that even with Carrick our midfield has come up short on numerous occasions. Yaya Toure has bullied our midfield and Barcelona run rings around our midfield when Carrick has been in the side. So, I personally think we need a midfielder better than Carrick eventually. City have Toure, Real have Alonso, Chelsea used to have Essien and Barca have the best trio in the world (and Fabregas).

I mean going from Keane and Scholes to Carrick being your best is not ideal. So personally we need that one top player in midfield sooner rather than later. It's the one area of the pitch we don't have someone who would be the top bracket.

Of course, people aren't wrong when they say we need an alternative to Carrick either because he's the only midfielder we have who can defend.
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It's more that we need a player of Carrick's style as opposed to his level. Of course, it'd be great to get someone better, but it's imperative we get someone who fulfils the same function, at least. We're a more ineffective team without a screening player; Dembélé wouldn't solve this problem.

I've said it on numerous occasions after Everton and Fulham that people are going overboard (as usual) about our midfield. We have had one fit CB, we've been playing Carrick at CB which in turn has weakened us in CM, and we even played Valencia at RB in the opening game. In these circumstances, it's not shocking that we've been a bit rickety at the back.

Given that Anderson is making his first steps back into competitive football (Pogue put it nicely in saying he has no base fitness as he barely played last season), Cleverley is still a baby in terms of Manchester United experience and Kagawa is new, it's normal that we may have some teething issues. This is accentuated by the fact that Carrick hasn't been in there to shore things up.

People need to chill out. Once we get the CBs fit, and Carrick is restored to his proper position, we're going to start looking far more secure.
 
apotheosis said:
Well in that case, what we will do is let him go to Spurs for 10-15m now, and then in 2 years when he has proved what everyone with a brain can see already, that he is pure class, we can let Levy feck us over and demand 3 times what spurs paid for him! It can't fail! :D
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Or in 2 years we could be saying what a great decision it was to give Cleverley as much game time as possible. He's become a top player.
 
Fortitude said:
He is very comfortable as a proper box-to-box midfielder. He also times his jaunts forward amicably when his team are on the back foot and need positional discipline.

The thing with Dembele, which separates him from the majority of CM's, is his ability to break rank from a deep position with the ball and carry it right through the heart of midfield, past two or three players, and then lay it off to an attacker whilst maintaining a good defensive position himself (given he is behind the ball after the pass and very rarely loses it on the run or with a sloppy pass) which marks him as different to an Anderson or Giggs who are both known for their runs forward with the ball but also their errant passing.

He is no specialist as a defensive midfielder or deep-lying playmaker, but he is certainly competent enough to be the more responsible one in a pairing of CM's as he isn't the type of player who looks like he is being hamstrung by having to be the sitter next to a more exuberant CM partner, like, say, Cleverley.

Fletcher is about the only CM we have with his two-way game, and even then, Fletcher is more of a runner/harrying sort whose positioning, at times, leaves a lot to be desired.

In recent memory a good game to watch of Dembele being more responsible defensively is the England vs Belgium friendly. He was studious and sensible and made a lot less runs with the ball in favour of the safe and economical pass that kept his team in possession and him in position and control should the ball be turned over.
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An excellent post Fortitude, exactly how i see it really. Let's hope SAF sees it similarly and gets him in. I think he will really improve our midfield by providing the attributes we simply don't have.
 
To be fair though if we could get him for a decent price and he was happy to be in rotation with Carrick and Clev then he'd be a good signing. Still wouldn't say he's the ideal sort of player we need but he's not a bad shout and better than not buying a midfielder at all. Like I said though if we were going to buy a midfielder I'd prefer someone who natural game is strong defensively. Pretty much be minimizing Ando's involvement though.
 
Ash_G said:
Or in 2 years we could be saying what a great decision it was to give Cleverley as much game time as possible. He's become a top player.
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Or not! We could be, as is more likely with midfielders at Utd, be 5 years down the line still waiting for him to find consistency as we have been with Anderson. But as i have said to you before Ash. It's not about TC, Dembele is a superior version of Anderson. He is not similar to TC at all.

I want to improve our midfield, and i want it improved now, i make no apologies for that. I am fed up waiting for this player to come good, or that player. If they are good enough they will come through. We are not going to go all season playing just TC and Carrick. There are times when we will have to play without one or the other or even both! If that happens i want better options available than we currently have.

TC and Carrick is the best case scenario but if they both get injured, the alternatives of Ando (if he can even saty fit) and Scholes or Giggs, gives me nightmares. I want a consistent player who is the real deal now, that is what will give us the best chance of improving. Doing nothing in midfield is not improving us.

You will find no-one on this forum who has championed TC for longer than me, and that hasn't changed. But by the same rule i also understand that he will not be available at some points, and i don't like the alternatives. I have no faith in Anderson staying fit, nor in giggs and Scholes ability to play extended runs of games any longer.

We placed our faith in Ando and TC last year, and we paid a heavy price for not making sure we had better back up options. Should we learn from last year's errors? Or should we run the risk of repeating them, and suffering similarly from lack of options at the end of the season?
 
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