Of course we won't. Instead we will sing another forward or winger.
On more serious note- I think it's the first time in the history of the Caf where nearly everybody has a similar view on a player.
Moussa Dembele
- Thread starter The Neviller
- Start date
Of course we won't. Instead we will sing another forward or winger.
On more serious note- I think it's the first time in the history of the Caf where nearly everybody has a similar view on a player.
I touched on this the other day. I don't think we have ever had a holding midfielder before and I don't think we ever will.
What we do need in the midfield is a physical presence and that is something we have lacked of late. What was evident yesterday was how strong and physical Dembele was compared to what we had on offer in the centre of the park.
As good as Carrick, Cleverley, Anderson and Scholes are, none of them offer a physical presence and you wouldn't back them to win a battle in the middle over anyone else in my opinion.
Leave Charlie Adam out of this
Just seen the MOTD highlights and he looked awesome.
I'm a fan of Witsel but if we can get Moussa for around £10m then that would be a an absolute steal.
Anyhow can't see Fergie buying unless we sell a couple of players first.
I'm a fan of Witsel but if we can get Moussa for around £10m then that would be a an absolute steal.
Anyhow can't see Fergie buying unless we sell a couple of players first.
Given the fact that Scholes wont be here next season and possibly Giggs as well it would be ideal to sign him from January onwards in terms of economics. With Fletcher also unlikely to be the same player(just my opinion not based on any great medical knowledge) he would fit in perfectly. Of course he isnt really cover for Carrick as such but he would offer us a lot.
I think we will probably wait till January or next summer to get him.
I think we will probably wait till January or next summer to get him.
Hope we get in there with a sweetener with the thought of getting him for next season. Can't see it happening in this or the January window.
I think Carrick is a holding midfielder. He doesn't do it in an all-action destroyer way, but he's bloody effective. There's a clear correlation between Carrick being in that position and United being better defensively.
What we'll never have is a limited destroyer. Any holding player will always need to play as well.
We need another Carrick.
I think Dembélé played well, but the praise has gone WAY over the top.
United controlled the game generally - meaning the likes of Cleverley and Anderson must have played reasonably well themselves - and only made it competitive because of isolated instances of poor defending.
And for all his attractive play, what was the output from Dembélé?
Why is no one viewing the game in the context of our defensive problems and no holding midfielder? These circumstances undoubtedly contributed to Dembélé having more freedom to play.
United controlled the game generally - meaning the likes of Cleverley and Anderson must have played reasonably well themselves - and only made it competitive because of isolated instances of poor defending.
And for all his attractive play, what was the output from Dembélé?
Why is no one viewing the game in the context of our defensive problems and no holding midfielder? These circumstances undoubtedly contributed to Dembélé having more freedom to play.
I am a big fan of Carrick and would have him in my best eleven every day of the week, although I don't think he is that good in a physical battle, hence why someone like Dembele would be good along side him.
A midfield 3 of Carrick - Dembele - Scholes/Cleverley/Anderson would offer great balance
I don't think Ferguson believes in anchor men, deeplying playmakers is where its at.
i do agree with you - our collective effort and a good perfomance of aforementioned players heleped us to control the game. the point is - it took 2 men having good games to stop/ control one in their team. the prise Dembele gets has little to do with Nano and Clev's performance.
53 passes
96% accuracy
3 key passes (passes that lead directly lead to a goal scoring opportunity)
8 tackles
1 interception
9 successful dribbles
Admirable output!
This is amazing.
Still doesn't solve the problem of what we do in Carrick's absence...
Do you have stats for the likes of Cleverley, Anderson and Kagawa? I bet they look pretty impressive too.
My point is that United controlled the game generally - agree? Fulham were only in the game because of our defensive deficiencies - agree?
The only thing I deduced from Dembélé's performance yesterday is that we lack something when we don't have a screening midfielder.
We need to view everything in the context of the defensive problems and no screening player.
Not denying Dembélé played well, but United were comfortable for large spells, so our own midfield can't have been so bad.
Dembele has gone from being a striker to an attacking midfielder. It would mean he'd have to stay disciplined which would minimise his biggest strengths as a player if he was to be a back-up to Carrick.
Attacking midfielders can make lots of tackles, but it's not the same as tracking runners, making interceptions and generally providing insurance.
Sorry, but he and his team mates weren't up to much when we were running riot in the first half.
Either was Phil Jones when we beat Blackburn 7-1. Its a totally unfair summary.
And even then, there's no guarantee that he can be an effective screening player. It's a different role.
Cleverley - less impressive
78 passes
91% accuracy
1 key passes (passes that lead directly lead to a goal scoring opportunity)
4 tackles
1 interception
1 successful dribbles
Anderson - much less impressive
56 passes
95% accuracy
0 key passes (passes that lead directly lead to a goal scoring opportunity)
3 tackles
1 interception
0 successful dribbles
Anderson did complete 11/11 long balls though - as opposed to Dembele with 2/2 and Cleverley with 4/6.
Kagawa was playing as our no 10 so I don't see the comparison as valid.
Would work well in 3 man midfield for us though. His ability to keep the ball under pressure is amazing, and we need players like him in Europe badly.
It's not an unfair summary.
Dembélé would not solve our midfield problem; namely that we need a deep lying screening player that can play.
We could stick Dembélé in our team and he could post those nice passing stats, but it's not as though that's a problem for us. But would he make us any more water tight when we are not in possession?
Moreover, and this is my key qualm, does Anderson actually deserve the stick he's getting on the Caf today? I'd we take his performance in isolation, I think he played pretty well.
We have those in Kagawa and Cleverley. Last season we were decimated by injuries in those areas.
We seem to struggle against players with imposing physiques in the middle of the park; Clev and Scholes are just too small and Ando can't cope with the Fellani's and Toure's of this world. I feel for what Dembele would cost and considering his attributes; that he would make a worthy addition to this team.
I don't see how you can say 'much less impressive' and 'less impressive'.
That said, those stats confirm what I suspected, both are excellent on the ball, but need a defensive player alongside them, i.e. Carrick.
Yes, Dembélé put a good number of tackles in, but does that qualify him to play as a screening midfielder? Not sure, personally.
Yes, but I don't think Kagawa and Cleverley will offer the physical presence that was much needed at times. The most impressive thing about Dembelé is that he's beast physically while being a good footballer, not sure about his defensive capabilities though when his team doesn't have the ball.
The main reason I would like Dembele is because I dont think Fletcher is going to come back the same player. I have little faith in Anderson coming good. Also Dembele would give us more of a physical presence in the team. We dont have much "strength" with Fletcher not around in the front 6. Even Carrick is very light weight-he is good defensively but more due to his reading of the game. The majority of our players in the from 6 are lightweight. The likes of Rooney and Valencia are strong and hard to knock off the ball but you couldnt really say we have a physical dimension to our front six like City do. They have players like Barry,Toure,De Jong,Rodwell,Dzeko to choose from.
Dembele was MOM yesterday. Cleverley played well but was less impressive than MD and Anderson was decent but quite a way off the performance of MD.
Carrick is a screening midfielder: he has been a game reading defensive midfielder for a long time now.
We have a holding player of sorts in Carrick, and as good as Carrick is at what he does, i really don't see him imposing himself on a real midfield beast such as Toure, Dembele or Fellaini myself.
We have been done over by all 3 of those players in the last games we have played against them. So you may be right a proper holding player mighht well make us harder to play through, but we don't have one and that is the problem.
We need someone who will impose themselves in the middle of the park, until we get one we will continue to struggle against powerful players. It's that simple really, and after the success Fulham and Everton had using that tactic, expect more of the same from other clubs. unless we do something about it while we still have time.
Yep, that is the problem
Did we really 'struggle'? I mean, the first goal was us being mugged on a set piece. The second was a screw up between Vidić and DDG. At 3-2 we gave a few chances up because we went into our shell.
For all his nice play, we were comfortable against Dembélé.
Agree with this.
I think if he has a partner that can give him work rate and energy if not real defensive strength, such as Clev or Ando and with Kagawa helping out, Carrick would be fine. Carrick had a good game against City but scholes was not an ideal partner for him and Park in the role kagawa could play was a disaster.
His size and physical prowess qualify him as a better bet there than Anderson or Cleverley. It would also make him better suited to play with one or the other should Carrick not be available, which we have to factor as a strong possibility really?
Can Carrick go another season maintaining top form and steering clear of injury? A huge risk imo, Dembele would be a far better bet in Carrick's role alongside TC or Ando, than Ando or TC would be without him. He gives us things we lack, which could only make us better, if that means backseat roles for Scholes and Giggs, then so be it imo.
Oh come on, we had 60%possession but every time he got on the ball we had no answer to the problems he presented. For the 40% Fulham had how much of that was directly attributable to Dembele's prowess at keeping it?
Any denial we will not continue to struggle against power players should have been put to bed by the way we have struggled without the ball, despite far greater possession, against players like Dembele and Fellaini.
Re Kagawa -
Go on, give the stats...
He doesn't play in the same position! No doubt Fergie will put him in there though, but still, he will not be required to do the same job as Anderson, more Clev or Scholes. You really are preaching to the converted though, I love *****, he is a cracking little players.
Kagawa
49 passes
90% accuracy
1 Goal
1 key passes (passes that lead directly lead to a goal scoring opportunity)
2 tackles
1 interception
1 successful dribbles
Decent for a No 10, he is better than yesterday though. The comparison is arbitrary though, maybe you like to swim in unfounded hubris, I don't know.
I think we may have different definitions for "impose". I'd say controlling the game is imposing yourself on the opposition. Our midfielders controlled both games. Against Everton it was our front three letting the team down and yesterday our defending put the team under pressure.