Moussa Dembele

KanieKaned said:
Baines then? Or who else?
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He seems to fit the bill. He was the player mentioned by, I think, Bob Cass along with van Persie and Lucas as one of the three main targets this Summer. And that was at the time when everyone thought van Persie was impossible to sign for us and most in here didn't believe in any interest.

However, Everton have already sold Rodwell this Summer so they have the money to run the club and perhaps make a couple of signing before the window closes. They don't have a replacement for Baines and he's a very important player for them so I don't think they'll really be willing to sell him. I think we should have offered them serious money (£10m or more) plus Fabio on loan at the beginning of the window if we really wanted him much. We probably thought they weren't going to offload any of their players for serious money though - I honestly didn't see a £12m plus add-ons bid for Rodwell coming from City.
 
Fergie being at the game no doubt will stoke the fire even more. No doubt it's just to see how what system they're employing before our game next week.


Sarni said:
He seems to fit the bill. He was the player mentioned by, I think, Bob Cass along with van Persie and Lucas as one of the three main targets this Summer. And that was at the time when everyone thought van Persie was impossible to sign for us and most in here didn't believe in any interest.

However, Everton have already sold Rodwell this Summer so they have the money to run the club and perhaps make a couple of signing before the window closes. They don't have a replacement for Baines and he's a very important player for them so I don't think they'll really be willing to sell him. I think we should have offered them serious money (£10m or more) plus Fabio on loan at the beginning of the window if we really wanted him much. We probably thought they weren't going to offload any of their players for serious money though - I honestly didn't see a £12m plus add-ons bid for Rodwell coming from City.
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I don't think any of us saw that bid for Rodwell coming. I was dya inky shocked when I heard about it. They are well stocked in that department so it didn't really make much sense bar the fact that he's English.

I couldnt see everton letting him go for anything less that 15mil even before they got the money for Rodders. I think hed be good cover and offer a different option but sitting on the bench most weeks might not suit him.

I'm assuming ferries words the other day are to see if he can tempt anything he has already enwuired about out of the woodwork before we he fully underway with the season.

Either way I'm happy enough with the squad as it is, Evans can do some time at left back if needed and so can Giggsy against the lower teams so we should be ok, but it's still not an ideal situation when we are going to be seriously trying to contend on all fronts from the looks of things.

If we are all good little boys and girls Uncle Alex might get us a little gift come the Christmas period. Wishful fecking thinking that.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Perhaps not, but the talksport link has named us as the club that bid, i dont see why we would be randomly linked for now reason, but then i guess the press are probably just putting 2+2 together.
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Either TalkSport was wrong or we're looking at him - trying to get a bargain or something, but I don't think we treat him as a main transfer target Ferguson was talking about.
 
Nope, I actually think Dembele could do well for us. Obviously he could also flop but if we manage to get him for £10m or less then why not try? Worst case scenario we'll sell him for a similar price in a couple of years.
 
Sarni said:
Nope, I actually think Dembele could do well for us. Obviously he could also flop but if we manage to get him for £10m or less then why not try? Worst case scenario we'll sell him for a similar price in a couple of years.
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I'd agree with you I think since he's been moved further back he's been very good at retaining possession. I'm just saying if he's not that target that we are after, then what's really the point of taking a punt if ya get my jist.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
If your referring to the England vs Belgium game, then from what I can remember he dominated Gerrard. He didn't set the game a light, but that's because that's the type of player he is at times - similar to Carrick.

Not many football supporters rate Carrick simply because he goes about his business quietly. Holding midfielders is probably the position that get's less praise than any other. I'm not saying Dembele is generally a holding midfielder, but the model still applies.

I hope the rumours of us making a bid is true, but since it's talksport - I doubt it.
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I don't really see the comparison between him and Carrick. Dembele's got plenty of flash about him and in general he's an eye-catching player because he's constantly running with the ball, taking men on and playing attacking passes whereas Carrick does most of the scrappy stuff at the other end (just in a very tidy way so some don't even notice it).
 
Maybe its partly because of him putting in a rake load of tackles aswel as doing all of which you've stated. I think he's very good on the ball but not sure if he could be converted into a full on defensive mid ala Carrick. He seems more like an all rounder with a bit more emphasis on the attacking side of things.
 
Yes he is an all rounder with great ability to dribble and physical presence. A better Anderson.
 
I think he would be available for around 8-10m - he would be a decent signing who could relish in playing for a big team and alongside world class players. Worth the gamble for that price.
 
Moussa Dembélé 73 passes v Norwich, 96% pass accuracy.

He can retain the ball, and I reckon he would be a very good signing for us.
 
Chances of it happening at this moment in time I say.....

25% I think we may be done with summers spending even if I do have a hankering for 2 more.


Baxter said:
Moussa Dembélé 73 passes v Norwich, 96% pass accuracy.

He can retain the ball, and I reckon he would be a very good signing for us.
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Impressive, most impressive...
 
Brwned said:
I don't really see the comparison between him and Carrick. Dembele's got plenty of flash about him and in general he's an eye-catching player because he's constantly running with the ball, taking men on and playing attacking passes whereas Carrick does most of the scrappy stuff at the other end (just in a very tidy way so some don't even notice it).
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I don't compare him to Carrick in terms of playing style. That would be silly of me. I meant that both players go about their business quietly. They get the job done, and they usually don't get credit for it simply because their role isn't a clear cut one for a fan. I played/play as a centre midfielder and that's exactly why I rate Carrick so much - I know personally how difficult it is to do his job, but if a certain fan had never played centre midfield in his life, then I can see why some fans completely under-rate Carrick. Players adore him because they also know the amount of work he does on the field.

Long winded comment. Apologies. Basically, Dembele gets the job done and doesn't get a great deal of credit for it. He did well for Fulham last season at centre midfield - tidy, technical, strong midfielder.

(Sorry about the English, I'm on my phone)
 
After watching his performance today - he can make it at United. He was brilliant
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
I don't compare him to Carrick in terms of playing style. That would be silly of me. I meant that both players go about their business quietly. They get the job done, and they usually don't get credit for it simply because their role isn't a clear cut one for a fan. I played/play as a centre midfielder and that's exactly why I rate Carrick so much - I know personally how difficult it is to do his job, but if a certain fan had never played centre midfield in his life, then I can see why some fans completely under-rate Carrick. Players adore him because they also know the amount of work he does on the field.

Long winded comment. Apologies. Basically, Dembele gets the job done and doesn't get a great deal of credit for it. He did well for Fulham last season at centre midfield - tidy, technical, strong midfielder.

(Sorry about the English, I'm on my phone)
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I didn't think you were comparing him to Carrick in terms of style I just don't really the see the comparison in terms of them going about their job in an understated way. Perhaps Dembele's underrated but the way he goes about his job is, IMO, the opposite of understated. Almost all of his best work is done on the ball, and a lot of what he does on the ball is creative - I think it's very hard to miss what he does best, unlike Carrick. Can see the Anderson comparison in terms of style though.
 
Ah I see what you mean. I suppose your right. I guess I'm just exaggerating his under-ratedness (not a word I know).
 
Will Fergie think so is the main thing, after all he was in attendance.

I must give it to Jol he loves just going for it with his teams, very rarely does he try and set them up to be cautious. Suppose that's the crazy Dutchman in him.
 
If I'm going to be silly and compare him to current United players, he's like a weird blend between Carrick and Anderson.

He's got Carrick's passing and height, with Anderson's pace, ability to carry the ball and shield it with his body.
 
Brwned said:
I didn't think you were comparing him to Carrick in terms of style I just don't really the see the comparison in terms of them going about their job in an understated way. Perhaps Dembele's underrated but the way he goes about his job is, IMO, the opposite of understated. Almost all of his best work is done on the ball, and a lot of what he does on the ball is creative - I think it's very hard to miss what he does best, unlike Carrick. Can see the Anderson comparison in terms of style though.
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Yeahhh spot on. The best of Carrick goes mostly unnoticed, like his defensive positioning, or his interceptions. The complete opposite with Dembele, his dribbling stands out most which by it's nature is never unappreciated.

I'd fecking love it if we signed him, can see him developing so much in the next few seasons.
 
I like Dembele and think it's within him to be quality here, but at the same time I can't help but think that, if we're not going to go after an established top class star, then we should stick with Cleverley, Anderson, Carrick, Scholes et al. The other thing is that a midfield spot can be used in order to keep Kagawa in the team if we are to play Valencia, Nani, Rooney and Van Persie as attacking options at the same time, not to mention that playing Kagawa there may actually help us to afford Welbeck enough chances.

It's a difficult one. I started off this summer thinking it would be sheer madness not to sign a central midfielder, but after seeing Cleverley in pre-season for us and England/Great Britain (and Kagawa in central midfield against Hannover), it strikes me that neglecting to strengthen the midfield (again) may not actually be the lunacy that I thought it to be previously. Really, given the versatility and flexibility of our squad, failing to sign another midfielder may well be an integral part of keeping everyone happy.

This whole point is obviously dependant on whether Kagawa can actually play there, though Fergie experimenting with him there against Hannover was perhaps an indication that it's part of his thinking. We'll have to see.
 
It could be worth waiting for 6 months or so. If Anderson looks like he's not going to make the step up and Dembele continues to improve then we could sign him up on a pre-contract then, get him in on a free in the summer. Hasn't looked good enough from what I've seen but that's not much.
 
What is "good enough" though? If the answer is that you havent seen him play better than Anderson or Cleverley, then I'm surprised
 
He's awesome Brwned. Considering he's just moved to midfield last season, so natural there. Needs to refine his positioning in defence, but even that isn't urgent, he's got the physicality and fitness to be useful in defence regardless.

Offensively he's good enough already, provides an ability to run with the ball through the middle that we don't currently have, bar possibly Anderson.
 
KingEric7 said:
I like Dembele and think it's within him to be quality here, but at the same time I can't help but think that, if we're not going to go after an established top class star, then we should stick with Cleverley, Anderson, Carrick, Scholes et al. The other thing is that a midfield spot can be used in order to keep Kagawa in the team if we are to play Valencia, Nani, Rooney and Van Persie as attacking options at the same time, not to mention that playing Kagawa there may actually help us to afford Welbeck enough chances.

It's a difficult one. I started off this summer thinking it would be sheer madness not to sign a central midfielder, but after seeing Cleverley in pre-season for us and England/Great Britain (and Kagawa in central midfield against Hannover), it strikes me that neglecting to strengthen the midfield (again) may not actually be the lunacy that I thought it to be previously. Really, given the versatility and flexibility of our squad, failing to sign another midfielder may well be an integral part of keeping everyone happy.

This whole point is obviously dependant on whether Kagawa can actually play there, though Fergie experimenting with him there against Hannover was perhaps an indication that it's part of his thinking. We'll have to see.
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Although you prove a point by mentioning the fact that playing Kagawa there sometimes would help "keep everyone happy", most noticably Welbeck/Chicharito, but at the same time not Kagawa, not Cleverley, not Anderson, or Scholes are ones I would entrust the defensive responsibilites to, that's just not a strong suit for any of these players.

It's logical when you watch United that 1 of the 2 midfielders tends to be more of a creator (in Cleverley/Anderson's cases they like to drift forward and excel in one touch passes and keeping the ball under pressure, while Scholes now tends to spray long passes due to not having any legs anymore) and the other midfielder tends to be the one that is more protective of the back 4, not necessarily a defensive midfielder, but not one that regularly runs forward and out of position. When that is not the case, for example when Cleverley and Anderson are partnered in our midfield they tend to leave the back 4 more exposed which leads to more shots on our end.

So even though we have the quantity of midfielders needed, none of them is suited to adequadetly replace Carrick in case of him needing a rest or god forbid getting injured.
 
I'll agree that the lack of cover for someone like Carrick is a problem, particularly if he gets injured and we've got someone like City coming up. I've been dying for us to sign Martinez all summer because of this, but I just think it's worth taking into consideration that signing someone now after the signings of Kagawa and Van Persie could seriously disrupt things.

This midfield situation over the last few years...it really has been so weird. You wouldn't think signing one would be so complex an issue. Between waiting for players to emerge, remaining rigid in having 2 central midfielders/an insistence on width and, in line with the above point, trying to keep everyone happy, it seems the most frustrating little episode. You can understand Fergie's hesitance to strengthen, and you can also understand the worries of people who feel we need cover for Carrick, but it's surely a bit difficult to know how to proceed at this point. If we do get cover for Carrick, you'd think that player would have to be good enough to start. If he is good enough to start, he'll drastically reduce Scholes, Cleverley and Anderson's playing time (we're not going to sign someone good enough for the first team and not play him) unless we then revert to playing 3 central midfielders. If we do this however, we then limit ourselves to 3 of Van Persie, Rooney, Nani, Valencia, Welbeck, Hernandez, Young and Kagawa. Quite simply, the repercussions throughout the squad are vast. This is before going on to discuss what it does to the chances of players like Powell, Petrucci, Lingard, Daehli, Januzaj, Tunnicliffe, Henriquez, Keane etc in the future.

Of course it's not as simple as this, but there is a limit to how much players can be rotated and kept happy you'd think, not to mention that it is actually wise to maintain some semblance of an idea as to what our best team is (or just some consistency in general). The most pressing concern for me is that it would seem such an incredible waste at this point not to fully bring through the likes of Cleverley and Welbeck, but there's a chance this is exactly what signing a midfielder would entail. On the other hand, if we do lose Carrick and have to go up against City/Barcelona/Madrid, there's an equally good chance that we'd be fecked.

Ahhh.... :wenger:!

Edit: I don't even know what my stance on this is now, to be honest. I said up there that if it's not a top class midfielder we shouldn't bother, but I think this post is more verging towards the stance that a midfielder now wouldn't be a good idea. Don't get me wrong though - if we had signed, say, someone of Martinez's quality and ilk, we'd have a team and squad almost entirely without weakness! It's just that signing anyone now who is, say, under the age of about 28, would potentially feck a lot of shit up. It may even make us more successful, but it'd perhaps end up being most 'un-Unitedish' if you get me. :)
 
KingEric7 said:
I'll agree that the lack of cover for someone like Carrick is a problem, particularly if he gets injured and we've got someone like City coming up. I've been dying for us to sign Martinez all summer because of this, but I just think it's worth taking into consideration that signing someone now after the signings of Kagawa and Van Persie could seriously disrupt things.

This midfield situation over the last few years...it really has been so weird. You wouldn't think signing one would be so complex an issue. Between waiting for players to emerge, remaining rigid in having 2 central midfielders/an insistence on width and, in line with the above point, trying to keep everyone happy, it seems the most frustrating little episode. You can understand Fergie's hesitance to strengthen, and you can also understand the worries of people who feel we need cover for Carrick, but it's surely a bit difficult to know how to proceed at this point. If we do get cover for Carrick, you'd think that player would have to be good enough to start. If he is good enough to start, he'll drastically reduce Scholes, Cleverley and Anderson's playing time (we're not going to sign someone good enough for the first team and not play him) unless we then revert to playing 3 central midfielders. If we do this however, we then limit ourselves to 3 of Van Persie, Rooney, Nani, Valencia, Welbeck, Hernandez, Young and Kagawa. Quite simply, the repercussions throughout the squad are vast. This is before going on to discuss what it does to the chances of players like Powell, Petrucci, Lingard, Daehli, Januzaj, Tunnicliffe, Henriquez, Keane etc in the future.

Of course it's not as simple as this, but there is a limit to how much players can be rotated and kept happy you'd think, not to mention that it is actually wise to maintain some semblance of an idea as to what our best team is (or just some consistency in general). The most pressing concern for me is that it would seem such an incredible waste at this point not to fully bring through the likes of Cleverley and Welbeck, but there's a chance this is exactly what signing a midfielder would entail. On the other hand, if we do lose Carrick and have to go up against City/Barcelona/Madrid, there's an equally good chance that we'd be fecked.

Ahhh.... :wenger:!

Edit: I don't even know what my stance on this is now, to be honest. I said up there that if it's not a top class midfielder we shouldn't bother, but I think this post is more verging towards the stance that a midfielder now wouldn't be a good idea. Don't get me wrong though - if we had signed, say, someone of Martinez's quality and ilk, we'd have a team and squad almost entirely without weakness! It's just that signing anyone now who is, say, under the age of about 28, would potentially feck a lot of shit up. It may even make us more successful, but it'd perhaps end up being most 'un-Unitedish' if you get me. :)
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I certainly understand your point of view, you presented it in a good way.
And the thought of our young midfielders hasn't left my head, it's just that we can't count on them now, and by the time we can count on them we'll have a different squad anyway.

You might say this is thinking a bit more short-term, but if it must be that way than so be it. Our squad in general is very young and I feel as if the future,s bright, adding that final piece or 2 of the puzzle to be almost without weakness right now shouldn't hurt our team in the long run in any way IMO.

For instance let's say we get Baines (realistic LB target) and one of Moutinho/Witsel/Dembele, that to me would make us near invincible (I mean obviously every team has their good and bad days but still, generaly speaking). And I doubt signing them would make it that much worse for other people involved. I already explained a dozen times why signing Baines makes sense from every perspective, and I'm generaly pretty positive if we are infact going to sign another player it is going to be a LB.

We have "cover" in midfield numbers wise, but there's an issue with each of them:
Anderson - injury prone, not living up to potential for a while
Cleverley - injury prone, or atleast bad luck with injuries for the past few years
Scholes - no legs, and is retiring after this season
Kagawa - due to his versatility and skill he could probably do a good job, but it'd be a waste to play him here
Jones - not primarily a midfielder, generaly not skilled enough at this point in time
Carrick - we're fecked if he gets injured
I'm not even going to mention Giggs as an option because I cringe at the thought of that. He should be played on the wing or behind the striker.

The problem is that although you see a lot of potential, it's also obvious once you think about it that it all depends on ifs and butts, and it's not always that being patient (or in this case simply ignorant) works out. Waiting on potential to come through can be a long and painful process, especialy if it doesn't pay off in the end.
We SHOULD by all means buy a CM, it just won't happen (this year)
 
OGkush said:
I certainly understand your point of view, you presented it in a good way.
And the thought of our young midfielders hasn't left my head, it's just that we can't count on them now, and by the time we can count on them we'll have a different squad anyway.

You might say this is thinking a bit more short-term, but if it must be that way than so be it. Our squad in general is very young and I feel as if the future,s bright, adding that final piece or 2 of the puzzle to be almost without weakness right now shouldn't hurt our team in the long run in any way IMO.

For instance let's say we get Baines (realistic LB target) and one of Moutinho/Witsel/Dembele, that to me would make us near invincible (I mean obviously every team has their good and bad days but still, generaly speaking). And I doubt signing them would make it that much worse for other people involved. I already explained a dozen times why signing Baines makes sense from every perspective, and I'm generaly pretty positive if we are infact going to sign another player it is going to be a LB.

We have "cover" in midfield numbers wise, but there's an issue with each of them:
Anderson - injury prone, not living up to potential for a while
Cleverley - injury prone, or atleast bad luck with injuries for the past few years
Scholes - no legs, and is retiring after this season
Kagawa - due to his versatility and skill he could probably do a good job, but it'd be a waste to play him here
Jones - not primarily a midfielder, generaly not skilled enough at this point in time
Carrick - we're fecked if he gets injured
I'm not even going to mention Giggs as an option because I cringe at the thought of that. He should be played on the wing or behind the striker.

The problem is that although you see a lot of potential, it's also obvious once you think about it that it all depends on ifs and butts, and it's not always that being patient (or in this case simply ignorant) works out. Waiting on potential to come through can be a long and painful process, especialy if it doesn't pay off in the end.
We SHOULD by all means buy a CM, it just won't happen (this year)
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If the Van Persie signing is anything to go by, perhaps this is the way the management are looking at things. I do think that it would sort of go against everything United supposedly stand for in terms of bringing youngsters through if we were to sign a relatively young, quality midfielder, but there is a clear problem no doubt.
 
KingEric7 said:
If the Van Persie signing is anything to go by, perhaps this is the way the management are looking at things. I do think that it would sort of go against everything United supposedly stand for in terms of bringing youngsters through if we were to sign a relatively young, quality midfielder, but there is a clear problem no doubt.
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My guess is this is partly due to Ferguson being a mortal, we know he won't be here for another 25 years so you can't afford to wait that much longer.
IMO he spent the last 2/3 years making a young and talented squad that in time should improve as they keep playing together, and now basicaly just needs a piece or 2 to make us completely dominant again.
If you think about it, we've got plenty of young talent we can count on in the future, more so than pretty much every team out there, but Fergie's also aware that due to the level of competition we're facing, United isn't going to win anything just with kids and old players like Giggs/Scholes. You need several players in their prime 2.
 
Nate Dogg said:
Where will that leave Ando?
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If he couldnt improve and play over Dembele, then rightfully not a first choice at Manchester United

We cant wait forever and its not like we'd be signing a £30 million central midfielder that wouldnt give Anderson much of a chance. At some point he actually has to step up and do it for United. At worst he should be taking Welbeck's approach, looking forward to playing with and learning from better players in his position and believing in himself enough to think he'll get enough games if he works hard.
 
If we signed him added with the supposed Buttner transfer and RvP and Kagawa and Powell Jesus this is never ending? It would have to be the biggest splurge Fergies ever done no?

Nows that's if all the above transfers went through, to which I don't see this one happening. If we were desperate come december we might enquire again.
 
KanieKaned said:
If we signed him added with the supposed Buttner transfer and RvP and Kagawa and Powell Jesus this is never ending? It would have to be the biggest splurge Fergies ever done no?

Nows that's if all the above transfers went through, to which I don't see this one happening. If we were desperate come december we might enquire again.
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It could end with:

Powell
Kagawa
Henriquez
Van Persie
Buttner
Dembele

Insane :lol:
 
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