Mourinho | New old Chelsea manager

Twigginater said:
I've mentioned before that Mourinho has been awarded the "worst buy" award every year since he left Chelsea. Modric last year from Marca, can't remember the year before that. Queresma, Muntari and Rivas during his Inter stay. Hell remember Schevchenko, Wright Phillips and others from Chelsea?

Appalling record in the transfer market.

Who is going to win it this year
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Modric wasn't a bad buy. Querasma was a very good player at one point but just seemed to give up. What about the good buys? Lucio, Milito, Eto (first time), Drogba, Carvalho, Makelele. I could easily pick points and say Ferguson was appalling in the transfer market.
 
Milito is always one I hate to label a good buy, he was 30 when he was bought and Jose paid over £20million for him which was a huge fee.

Obviously he played well and helped them win the treble but it wasn't a shrewd purchase and it was very expensive.
 
Theon said:
Milito is always one I hate to label a good buy, he was 30 when he was bought and Jose paid over £20million for him which was a huge fee.

Obviously he played well and helped them win the treble but it wasn't a shrewd purchase and it was very expensive.
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I'd pay £20 million for any player who scores two goals in the champions league final to win.
 
It was a bad loss, but all this is going to do is create an even bigger us vs them mentality with the group of players that he isn't alienating. It will work in the short term, but this thing is all going to blow up and cause dissaray within the club. Again.
 
Spiersey said:
I'd pay £20 million for any player who scores two goals in the champions league final to win.
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That's the worst argument I've ever read you fecking nut job

Crespo who was deemed too shit for Chelsea and sent out on loan to AC Milan scored two in the Champions League Final.. Would you have bought him back for another £20million?
 
Theon said:
That's the worst argument I've ever read you fecking nut job

Crespo who was deemed too shit for Chelsea and sent out on loan to AC Milan scored two in the Champions League Final.. Would you have bought him back for another £20million?
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Also at no point did I say he was worth £20 million to another club because he scored those goals so your point about Crespo is invalid. Any player who scores two goals in a champions league final to win, fully justifies a £20 million price tag to that team.
 
Spiersey said:
Also at no point did I say he was worth £20 million to another club because he scored those goals so your point about Crespo is invalid. Any player who scores two goals in a champions league final to win, fully justifies a £20 million price tag to that team.
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Well that's why I said "Obviously he played well and helped them win the treble" - we know he played well that season.

The point is though that he was 30 years old and Mourinho spent £22million on him which was widely accepted as overpriced. It was just an expensive purchase, and you would expect him to perform for that huge fee. I mean they were never getting any of that investment back, he's 34 now and has zero sell on value.

You're just looking at it from the perspective of who actually played well and are ignoring all other aspects of the transfer, you can tell you're a Chelsea fan. It was an overpriced deal and although Milito played well that season its the type of transfer no club can build itself on as its unsustainable.
 
Mourinho is not the saviour/miracle worker he is painted as and here is something to back up my opinion:

2004-2005...His rivals for the title were 1. A developing United side with some good youth players, an aging and battered leader (Keane) and a lot of absolute shit and 2. An Arsenal team who fell apart after the unbeaten run ended and have never fully recovered since.

2005-2006 - Same United team minus Keane for the majority of it. Still a lot of absolute shit (O Shea and Smith in midfield?!!??!) Scholes missing the whole season but with Rooney and Ronaldo developing...We somehow managed to take it the 3rd last game for the league.

2006-2007 - They sign Ballack and Shev and Mikel and still had a team in it's prime that were champions...We sell Keane and RVN and sign an unproven at the top level Michael Carrick and wipe the floor with everyone, play the best football and win the league when Chelsea, really should have won it with that team

Point being, he came to England at a time when United were at their weakest and Arsenal were on decline of huge proportions...Now, it's not so easy. The league as a whole has gotten better and United are not a developing side and Arsenal will get better. Thats not including City and Spurs either
 
Spiersey said:
Also at no point did I say he was worth £20 million to another club because he scored those goals so your point about Crespo is invalid. Any player who scores two goals in a champions league final to win, fully justifies a £20 million price tag to that team.
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The thing is - he did score the two goals but that's not to say someone else couldn't have done it. Milito played well but Inter may well have still won the CL with another striker who would have been a much better long term investment.
 
Theon said:
Well that's why I said "Obviously he played well and helped them win the treble" - we know he played well that season.

The point is though that he was 30 years old and Mourinho spent £22million on him which was widely accepted as overpriced. It was just an expensive purchase, and you would expect him to perform for that huge fee. I mean they were never getting any of that investment back, he's 34 now and has zero sell on value.

You're just looking at it from the perspective of who actually played well and are ignoring all other aspects of the transfer, you can tell you're a Chelsea fan. It was an overpriced deal and although Milito played well that season its the type of transfer no club can build itself on as its unsustainable.
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You can tell I'm a Chelsea fan because my tagline says so, not because of anything I've stated here today. Surely every transfer should be looked at as it is now? He was bought to fill a gap in the team and he did. Most big teams buy players for big fees with no intention of selling them on. RVP will have no sell on value. I'm not saying he wasn't overpriced but he more than justified that transfer fee in the end with his performances.
 
Theon said:
Milito is always one I hate to label a good buy, he was 30 when he was bought and Jose paid over £20million for him which was a huge fee.

Obviously he played well and helped them win the treble but it wasn't a shrewd purchase and it was very expensive.
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Don't be daft, he was a marvelous signing. They got a perfect piece of the jigsaw and one of Europe's top strikers for a bunch of no-marks and some cash. 30+ goals and the UEFA player of the year award in a treble winning debut season is irrefutable, mate. 2 seasons on he was still very, very good. Hell, he's still a key player for them.
 
Mourinho is a world class manager, one of the best ever. He has simply inherited a poor squad in direct comparison to the one he was able to build in his first tenure. He needs time and lets not kid ourselves he will turn it around. It takes time to find the right balance especially when you have no fecking striker.
 
alastair said:
The thing is - he did score the two goals but that's not to say someone else couldn't have done it. Milito played well but Inter may well have still won the CL with another striker who would have been a much better long term investment.
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Correct, but we can't say for sure. Mourinho bought him for a short term investment and that's what Inter wanted at the time. Also I should add I'm not defending this because it's Mourinho.
 
Spiersey said:
Correct, but we can't say for sure. Mourinho bought him for a short term investment and that's what Inter wanted at the time. Also I should add I'm not defending this because it's Mourinho.
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Yeh, but it's £22m. I get what you're saying and the Inter fans won't care, but in the long term, part of the reason Inter dropped off so dramatically was because of the squad Mourinho left behind. Deals like the Milito one were a cause of the downfall.
 
Spiersey said:
You can tell I'm a Chelsea fan because my tagline says so, not because of anything I've stated here today. Surely every transfer should be looked at as it is now? He was bought to fill a gap in the team and he did. Most big teams buy players for big fees with no intention of selling them on. RVP will have no sell on value. I'm not saying he wasn't overpriced but he more than justified that transfer fee in the end with his performances.
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Yeah Van Persie is the exact type of signing I'm talking about, but he's a much better player. He was also a year younger and in real terms with the huge inflation in football transfers he was cheaper as well.

Also with Van Persie he's scoring at a higher rate and has already scored half the number of goals Milito has at Inter Milan, despite only being here a season.
 
alastair said:
Yeh, but it's £22m. I get what you're saying and the Inter fans won't care, but in the long term, part of the reason Inter dropped off so dramatically was because of the squad Mourinho left behind. Deals like the Milito one were a cause of the downfall.
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Absolutely spot on, that squad was already ancient - spending £22million on a 30 year old striker was a bad investment.
 
alastair said:
Yeh, but it's £22m. I get what you're saying and the Inter fans won't care, but in the long term, part of the reason Inter dropped off so dramatically was because of the squad Mourinho left behind. Deals like the Milito one were a cause of the downfall.
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I don't think the squad is as bad as made out. He was asked when he went their to improve them in Europe, as they were poor under Mancini. He couldn't do that with young players in a short time span.
 
Theon said:
Yeah Van Persie is the exact type of signing I'm talking about, but he's a much better player. He was also a year younger and in real terms with the huge inflation in football transfers he was cheaper as well.

Also with Van Persie he's scoring at a higher rate and has already scored half the number of goals Milito has at Inter Milan, despite only being here a season.
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RVP was better value obviously. Milito scored more than 1 in 2 games at Inter. Thats a good return.
 
Yet another manager who made a balls up of the transfer window:

Signed Willian for big money when they didn't need him (and probably just to stop Spurs signing him), made the stupid decision to send Lukaku out on loan (again), strengthened a potential rival by letting Liverpool have Moses on loan, signed Eto'o at 32 years of age after wasting their summer chasing Rooney, and then signed a bunch of average somebodies to finish off with.
 
Spiersey said:
RVP was better value obviously. Milito scored more than 1 in 2 games at Inter. Thats a good return.
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Yeah 1 in 2 is always a good return for a striker, that's why I never criticised his performances. If you look at the original post I was hesitant in saying it wasn't a bad buy for that reason - its a tough one to analyse. I still certainly don't think it was 'bad', its just not a particularly good one for me.

The point is though that you have to look at that 1 in 2 and remember he was 30 years old and cost a very big fee. Van Persie is obviously hitting much above that (2 in 3), but he was also younger and cheaper as well which is why its a better transfer.
 
Theon said:
Absolutely spot on, that squad was already ancient - spending £22million on a 30 year old striker was a bad investment.
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No it wasn't, he won them the feckin Champions League final. Scored the winner in the Coppa Italia final against Roma and the winner against Siena to clinch the title. Was voted Uefa striker of the year. He scored 60 goals in 111 games and his last season and a half were ravaged by injury. A great signing if you ask me.
 
Theon said:
Yeah 1 in 2 is always a good return for a striker, that's why I never criticised his performances. If you look at the original post I was hesitant in saying it wasn't a bad buy for that reason - its a tough one to analyse.

The point is though that you have to look at that 1 in 2 and remember he was 30 years old and cost a very big fee. Van Persie is obviously hitting much above that (2 in 3), but he was also younger and cheaper as well which is why its a better transfer.
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I'd analyse it as a success, tipped due to the champions league. I'd obviously agree RVP is a much much better transfer (very few better for the price paid)
 
lem8sh said:
No it wasn't, he won them the feckin Champions League final. Scored the winner in the Coppa Italia final against Roma and the winner against Siena to clinch the title. Was voted Uefa striker of the year. He scored 60 goals in 111 games and his last season and a half were ravaged by injury. A great signing if you ask me.
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Off the top of my head players like Cesar, Lucio, Samuel, Cordoba, Maicon, Chivu, Zanetti, Cambiasso, Stankovic were all important players and around 30 in that team, some way over. The squad was ancient and needed rebuilding, not adding more 30 year olds to the team. As Alistair says its a reason for Inter's decline since Mourinho left
 
Theon said:
Off the top of my head players like Cesar, Lucio, Samuel, Cordoba, Maicon, Chivu, Zanetti, Cambiasso, Stankovic were all important players and around 30 in that team, some way over. The squad was ancient and needed rebuilding, not adding more 30 year olds to the team. As Alistair says its a reason for Inter's decline since Mourinho left
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But Milito was not a bad investment which is what you said, he more than paid back his fee in the first season.
 
Fantastic short term move, not so good for building a future.

Would I be surprised Mourinho was looking at the short term, not expecting a lengthy career at Inter? No, not at all.
 
RedRossi said:
Mourinho is not the saviour/miracle worker he is painted as and here is something to back up my opinion:

2004-2005...His rivals for the title were 1. A developing United side with some good youth players, an aging and battered leader (Keane) and a lot of absolute shit and 2. An Arsenal team who fell apart after the unbeaten run ended and have never fully recovered since.

2005-2006 - Same United team minus Keane for the majority of it. Still a lot of absolute shit (O Shea and Smith in midfield?!!??!) Scholes missing the whole season but with Rooney and Ronaldo developing...We somehow managed to take it the 3rd last game for the league.

2006-2007 - They sign Ballack and Shev and Mikel and still had a team in it's prime that were champions...We sell Keane and RVN and sign an unproven at the top level Michael Carrick and wipe the floor with everyone, play the best football and win the league when Chelsea, really should have won it with that team

Point being, he came to England at a time when United were at their weakest and Arsenal were on decline of huge proportions...Now, it's not so easy. The league as a whole has gotten better and United are not a developing side and Arsenal will get better. Thats not including City and Spurs either
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He was fortunate to inherite the Chelsea team he did from Ranieri. I remember they started his first season fairly average, clicked when Robben returned from injury and virtually sealed the title with a win against Blackburn away from home. To Mourinho's credit he gave the players their first taste of success, instilled a winning/never give up mentality which blighted Chelsea for years and strengthened a flimsy defence.
 
lem8sh said:
But Milito was not a bad investment which is what you said, he more than paid back his fee in the first season.
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I don't think he did, because the fee was so high for his age. He would have needed to achieve similar success in the following seasons to pay back on a £22million investment - remember that money is written off in terms of resale value. He didn't win the treble on his own either so lets not play down the rest of that Inter side, Sneijder was the star of the team and the defence was equally important.
 
This Milito discussion is mind boggling.

Anyway, I dont understand what Mourinho is doing to Mata. Its bizarre. Also even though they are rivals for the league, I hope he doesnt "joe Cole" players like Mata and Hazard.
 
Milito was a great signing for Inter. Proven quality, and delivered when it counted.

If Van Persie was a great signing (which he was - signing of the season for mine, the khunt) then Milito definitely was. Both players helped spur their side on to win trophies.
 
How can anybody decide to disregard Milito as a signing? Do you honestly think Mourinho cares about the state of a club when he is finished? Jose is one of the best and anybody who takes the time to say otherwise - is being a cock. One thing though, it seems quite apparent that he is more interested in personal accolades and merit, than building a dynasty with one team. Maybe this is what he would like to accomplish with Chelsea now? Either way, Milito was pinnacle to his treble winning season and a bargain price for what they accomplished.

With regards to what he is doing now...

He has bought young, talented players - with the aim of creating a side that will last for a years. I said from day one that despite the bookies having Chelski as favourites for the title, he did not have the old backbone of Cech, Terry, Lampard and Drogba in this side. The very fact that he does not have a Drogba is key to this I reckon. Leaving Lukaku out on loan is a bit of a boggler imo. Leaving Mata as nothing more than a fringe player kinda sums up Jose so far. ' I am Jose and I will do things my way!'. This may very well be his undoing at the Bridge second time round.
 
I still don't understand the Willian signing - especially considering they had already signed Schurlle. It can't really have been because Tottenham were keen?

Having said that he put a stop to the Ba loan deal after Ozil was signed, so I wouldn't put it past him.
 
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