Mourinho | New old Chelsea manager

Danny1982 said:
I didn't see anything in him so far (lack of desire, lack of energy, lack of emotions, ...etc.) that would hint to me that he's leaving at the end of the season.
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When he does go I dont think it will be preceded by these things at all. Quite the contrary.

There is no doubt in my mind when he goes it will be sudden, and I dont think even the players will know about it TBH, very few people will know to minimise the chance of a leak.

I dont think he will go this summer. But I cant envisage a season when I think it will be his last, so one day I will be wrong.
 
I mean to say that I don't see Fergie leaving yet, but there is a certain logic there which the media will no doubt start up on eventually.
 
Ferguson said:
I mean to say that I don't see Fergie leaving yet, but there is a certain logic there which the media will no doubt start up on eventually.
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Nah, I dont think SAF's decision will be influenced at all by comings and goings at board level. I dont think any change there will have that great an impact on him, he has total control of the football side and it is inconceivable that anyone would ever try and encroach on that, so he is relatively well insulated from it.
 
Fergie annouced he was retiring at the end of the season quite a few years ago and subsequently changed his mind. I'm sure he said that after that experience, when he does retire it will be out of the blue and that he will not be giving any prior warnings (so as not to negatively impact the team).
 
Adebesi said:
When he does go I dont think it will be preceded by these things at all. Quite the contrary.

There is no doubt in my mind when he goes it will be sudden, and I dont think even the players will know about it TBH, very few people will know to minimise the chance of a leak.

I dont think he will go this summer. But I cant envisage a season when I think it will be his last, so one day I will be wrong.
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The only reason I would think of for him to retire is age/health. And for it to be serious enough for him to quit there would be a good chance that we could see some signs of it in his last season.

Of course nobody can see in the future, it's just the impression that I got.
 
Danny1982 said:
The only reason I would think of for him to retire is age/health. And for it to be serious enough for him to quit there would be a good chance that we could see some signs of it in his last season.

Of course nobody can see in the future, it's just the impression that I got.
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There are always mixed messages arent there, it makes it very hard to predict. One minute he says he will carry on while he has his health, which supports what you are saying. Then he says "no way will I still be here in 5 years" or whatever, implying he wants to bow out regardless of health factors.

Maybe before he goes you would expect to see more fatigue, but I dont think you would ever see a dip in his emotion or his desire. Even if he was managing us from a wheelchair with a drip coming out of his arm.
 
Adebesi said:
There are always mixed messages arent there, it makes it very hard to predict. One minute he says he will carry on while he has his health, which supports what you are saying. Then he says "no way will I still be here in 5 years" or whatever, implying he wants to bow out regardless of health factors.

Maybe before he goes you would expect to see more fatigue, but I dont think you would ever see a dip in his emotion or his desire. Even if he was managing us from a wheelchair with a drip coming out of his arm.
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:lol:

Yeah, it would be a sad day when he leaves.. :(
 
My guess is that he'll go to a money bag club. Jose is great man manager and can handle huge egos in a team like no one else, but the fact is that he needs money to be effective.
 
Adebesi said:
When he does go I dont think it will be preceded by these things at all. Quite the contrary.

There is no doubt in my mind when he goes it will be sudden, and I dont think even the players will know about it TBH, very few people will know to minimise the chance of a leak.

I dont think he will go this summer. But I cant envisage a season when I think it will be his last, so one day I will be wrong.
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Yeah, it is just that. One summer will have to be the last. Obviously, for me, he can manage 'til he's 80 if he is healthy both mentally and physically. However I think it is very likely that he will step down anywhere in between 1 - 4 years. But then again, I've been saying that since he was about 65!

He even said directly around 08 that he would be here for three more seasons, tops :lol:
 
Forevergiggs said:
My guess is that he'll go to a money bag club. Jose is great man manager and can handle huge egos in a team like no one else, the fact is that he needs money to be effective.
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That's not a fact at all.

Benfica: His first managerial job. Made a few games with them, which ended up being the best period of their season. They were very weak at the time. A new president was elected, and among his promises was the return of Toni, the last manager to be champion by Benfica. He fulfilled his promise. Mourinho knew he was going to be fired, but in his last game they won brilliantly against Sporting (stronger at the time) 3-0 and he left the pitch with a smile on his face. Toni was a disgrace and ruined the rest of their season. Benfica fans look at this mistake as the biggest screw-up ever. It earned their biggest rivals a Champions League.

Leiria: 5th place when he left them (Porto was in 6th). He left them in a healthy enough state for them to keep that place until the end of the season.

Porto: In his first half-season with us he joined when we were 6th, and we had a brilliant ending to the season ending in 3rd, not too far from the champions. In the following seasons, apart from an European Super-Cup (in which we outplayed Milan but lost) and a Portuguese Cup, he won everything he could.

The rest of the story you already know. You can't assume he needs money to be effective until he fails at a team without money. He probably won't have the chance or desire to prove that, and he earned that "right".

I never saw a man instilling such confidence in fans and players. As soon as he arrived at Porto he said "it's too late now, but next season we will be champions". He was labelled as arrogant and deluded.

When we unfairly lost the Super Cup to Milan he said "someone will pay heavily for this". Sporting lost 4-1 against us the next game.

When we lost home to Panathinaikos in the UEFA Cup quarter-final, he went to their manager and said "stop celebrating because this isn't over". And it wasn't. He was never wrong. He were shit-scared of Lazio in the semis and he won the first leg 4-1.
 
Danny1982 said:
I know he wouldn't give a hint like say it, but I meant I didn't see anything in him so far (lack of desire, lack of energy, lack of emotions, ...etc.) that would hint to me that he's leaving at the end of the season.

Also if he was going this year I don't think he would have re-signed Giggs for another year, nor would Giggs re-sign in my opinion.
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If Fergie is leaving this year, I'd have thought that Giggs staying for the first year of a transition would make sense.

If you take into account that Mourinho will want complete control of the club and also the fact that we should have, to some degree, learned about how an old manager can have an overshadowing effect on a new one, then having Giggs around for another year would be the way forward for me.
 
I don't know much about Porto or the Primeira Liga, so can't really argue much. Though isn't it a 2 team league and has been like that through out? AVB had a pretty successful run with them and won everything.

I doubt his ability to come in and build teams. His managerial stints have all been very short and we are yet to see him develop teams and squads like United do, and Arsenal have done it in the past. Money bag clubs suit him, as he can go there, buy players, win things and then eventually call it quits. It goes with his impatience, and abrasive personality.
 
Forevergiggs said:
I don't know much about Porto or the Primeira Liga, so can't really argue much. Though isn't it a 2 team league and has been like that through out? AVB had a pretty successful run with them and won everything.

I doubt his ability to come in and build teams. His managerial stints have all been very short and we are yet to see him develop teams and squads like United do, and Arsenal have done it in the past. Money bag clubs suit him, as he can go there, buy players, win things and then eventually call it quits. It goes with his impatience, and abrasive personality.
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Basically all wrong. He won the UEFA Cup and Champions League at Porto with very little money. He also won the Treble at Inter, including another CL without breaking the bank. If anything, he has been more successful at clubs where he spent less and had more control, than at clubs (namely Chelsea and Madrid) where he had to deal with rubbish owners/senior management, which actually speaks well of fitting in at OT.
 
It'll be strange at United next season with Mourinho, Lampard, Modric and Ronaldo all joining!
 
It's an interesting suggestion if he's already got a deal for next season - he's said very clearly that his next job is in England, so in that case there aren't many candidates.

I don't think it'll be City due to the Barcelona staff at the club and Jose's comments during the group stages (though were they perhaps more directed at Mancini?).

I can't see it being Arsenal or Liverpool, and certainly not us.

Which leaves Chelsea.

I expected him to take some time-off after Real if he was waiting for Sir Alex to retire - but a new job next season basically has to be to a rival of ours as I can't see him dropping down the league.

IF it's England next season, only Chelsea would fit.
 
Raoul said:
Basically all wrong. He won the UEFA Cup and Champions League at Porto with very little money. He also won the Treble at Inter, including another CL without breaking the bank. If anything, he has been more successful at clubs where he spent less and had more control, than at clubs (namely Chelsea and Madrid) where he had to deal with rubbish owners/senior management, which actually speaks well of fitting in at OT.
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:)

The point still stands about him being a temporary fix, pretty damn good at it, than a permanent solution.

He made some dumbass signings and spent a pretty significant sum at Inter. Left them in tatters.

People call Chelsea's last season CL win lucky, what was Porto's? Should have never won the QF against us. Deportivo and Monaco in the semi's and finals respectively after that.

His signings reek of short-termism and quick fixes. His brand of football is boring and mundane. His win it all costs attitude, the diving, play acting by his teams is very off-putting.

I hope he never becomes a United manager.
 
KM said:
Can't see Mourinho working under director of football, he likes to have total football control like SAF. Also City's director of football are Ex-Barcelona directors who've been hired recently.
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But Chelsea provide the least control to the manager due to abramovich's presence. It's a tough one, I think mourinho would love to be back at Chelsea but I'm not sure whether he wants to work with the Russian owner again. I think he'd take united for sure if give a chance but I don't see fergie retiring anytime soon. He seems too full of desire still.
 
Anduin said:
It's Chelsea (effectively ruling out a move to us in the future), with an outside chance for PSG (another league he can win the league title and raise their profile, while earning a fortune and waiting until Fergie retires).

Though I got to admit I wouldn't be THAT surprised if Fergie is indeed retiring after this season. There was a poster here who had an interesting theory about Fergie's anger about Nani's dismissal against Real (the fact aside it was horrendous of course): It was his last shot at the European Cup. I'm not convinced, but there could be something to it.
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It does make some sense.
 
Forevergiggs said:
:)

The point still stands about him being a temporary fix, pretty damn good at it, than a permanent solution.

He made some dumbass signings and spent a pretty significant sum at Inter. Left them in tatters.

People call Chelsea's last season CL win lucky, what was Porto's? Should have never won the QF against us. Deportivo and Monaco in the semi's and finals respectively after that.

His signings reek of short-termism and quick fixes. His brand of football is boring and mundane. His win it all costs attitude, the diving, play acting by his teams is very off-putting.

I hope he never becomes a United manager.
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More nonsense. He made Inter treble winners without breaking the bank. The fact that they went downhill after he left is a testament to his success and the fact that his successors couldn't replicate a treble, much less a Serie-a trophy. Your're basically struggling to undercut the most successful manager in club football over the past decade and making a comical mess of it.
 
Forevergiggs said:
His signings reek of short-termism and quick fixes. His brand of football is boring and mundane. His win it all costs attitude, the diving, play acting by his teams is very off-putting.
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He's football's perfect emblem of the times we live in. From short-termism, the appalling 'winner' philosophy to public image and blatant self-interest, Jose reflects modern society perfectly.

PS The above isn't necessarily a criticism of Mourinho, believe it or not.
 
Forevergiggs said:
:)

The point still stands about him being a temporary fix, pretty damn good at it, than a permanent solution.

He made some dumbass signings and spent a pretty significant sum at Inter. Left them in tatters.

People call Chelsea's last season CL win lucky, what was Porto's? Should have never won the QF against us. Deportivo and Monaco in the semi's and finals respectively after that.

His signings reek of short-termism and quick fixes. His brand of football is boring and mundane. His win it all costs attitude, the diving, play acting by his teams is very off-putting.

I hope he never becomes a United manager.
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He does the job asked of him. At Chelsea, that was to be successful with near immediate effect, and in addition to doing that, a lot of the Chelsea players he made great have served Chelsea for many years after he left winning one league title and one champions league title in the 5 or so years period. And that's not a bad return at all when you consider how poorly abrahmovic has run the club with his hire and fire policy. The one year they had a top class manager (ancelotti), they won the league, with tons of mourinho players running the show.

At inter he achieved the dream they had of breaking Europe finally after domestic domination. Again, you have to see what was asked of him by the owners and who followed him. You replace fergie with a moron like Benitez and youll get a similar fall from grace at united.

And finally, I think his madrid team play very attractive football. They play a fantastic counter attack football and for me, that kind of football is extremely entertaining.

It's true that he hasn't shown certain aspects like grooming youth and staying at a club for a long period but he's young enough to fulfill that too.
 
Raoul said:
More nonsense. He made Inter treble winners without breaking the bank. The fact that they went downhill after he left is a testament to his success and the fact that his successors couldn't replicate a treble, much less a Serie-a trophy. Your're basically struggling to undercut the most successful manager in club football over the past decade and making a comical mess of it.
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Treble winners. :lol:

You know the situation with Juve and Milan at that time? Are you aware of the scandal?

May be you should educate yourself first before calling it a comical mess. Also try and look at his record in the transfer market.
 
Raoul said:
You obviously missed his success at Porto.
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Spot on.

he has spent money - but what top manager wouldn't if it was available? Thie likes of Essien and Drogba were masterstrokes, even if they did cost a lot and he did soem great business at Inter turning an average side into CL winners.

Lets not kid ourselves that United have had the success they've had on a shoestring, even if over the last few years the spending has been reigned in and perhaps not as much as some would like.

Anyone making this argument needs to consider the PL this year - the difference between United and the rest largely being a newly acquired £20 million plus centre forward on at least £150k a week.
 
Forevergiggs said:
Treble winners. :lol:

You know the situation with Juve and Milan at that time? Are you aware of the scandal?

May be you should educate yourself first before calling it a comical mess. Also try and look at his record in the transfer market.
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They won the European Cup - knocked out "the best team ever" In barca and beat a strong Bayern side in the final.

That was Mourinho's real achievement. How many other manager would have won the Champions League with that side?
 
Forevergiggs said:
Treble winners. :lol:

You know the situation with Juve and Milan at that time? Are you aware of the scandal?

May be you should educate yourself first before calling it a comical mess. Also try and look at his record in the transfer market.
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Are you denying that Inter won a treble ? If so, this thread is hitting a new low.

The results speak for themselves. Four leagues, league titles everywhere he's managed, two Champions Leagues, one with a relatively minnowish side with little money.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
He does the job asked of him. At Chelsea, that was to be successful with near immediate effect, and in addition to doing that, a lot of the Chelsea players he made great have served Chelsea for many years after he left winning one league title and one champions league title in the 5 or so years period. And that's not a bad return at all when you consider how poorly abrahmovic has run the club with his hire and fire policy. The one year they had a top class manager (ancelotti), they won the league, with tons of mourinho players running the show.

At inter he achieved the dream they had of breaking Europe finally after domestic domination. Again, you have to see what was asked of him by the owners and who followed him. You replace fergie with a moron like Benitez and youll get a similar fall from grace at united.

And finally, I think his madrid team play very attractive football. They play a fantastic counter attack football and for me, that kind of football is extremely entertaining.

It's true that he hasn't shown certain aspects like grooming youth and staying at a club for a long period but he's young enough to fulfill that too.
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The moron Benitez also outwitted him twice in the CL semi's with Liverpool. Make whatever you want of it.

I am not denying what you are saying with the first paragraph. That is what Mou is, an excellent motivator, who can provide you instant success. He is quick fix solution.

The Inter domestic domination was more because of the scandal than the greatness of Mourinho.

His style, his abrasiveness, the antics of his team are not very becoming. I would hate it if Fergie goes and pokes David Platt's eyes on April 6th.

If he goes somewhere, grooms youth and is successful, then all power to him. I hope that is somewhere else.
 
RedRover said:
They won the European Cup - knocked out "the best team ever" In barca and beat a strong Bayern side in the final.

That was Mourinho's real achievement. How many other manager would have won the Champions League with that side?
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Did you think Chelsea were lucky last season or did they deserve it?

The best team ever was also struck due to the ash cloud crisis in Europe. There was a lot of luck involved in that CL win.

I never said that Jose is not an excellent manager. Of course he is. Even the best players/egos need to be managed and he does that brilliantly.
 
Forevergiggs said:
The moron Benitez also outwitted him twice in the CL semi's with Liverpool. Make whatever you want of it.

I am not denying what you are saying with the first paragraph. That is what Mou is, an excellent motivator, who can provide you instant success. He is quick fix solution.

The Inter domestic domination was more because of the scandal than the greatness of Mourinho.

His style, his abrasiveness, the antics of his team are not very becoming. I would hate it if Fergie goes and pokes David Platt's eyes on April 6th.

If he goes somewhere, grooms youth and is successful, then all power to him. I hope that is somewhere else.
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like feck i would. it would be hilarious. i'd love for fergie to nut some city cnut or take his widge out and urinate on anfield.
 
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