Mourinho | New old Chelsea manager

Seems to start falling apart for him in the third season of every club he manages.

Porto - Won the treble in his second year, then quit for Chelsea.
Chelsea - Outstanding for two years before declining and eventually getting sacked at the start of fourth year. Chelsea were pretty dire at the time of his dismissal.
Inter - Won the treble in his second year, then quit for Madrid. Inter fell apart.
Madrid - Won the league in his second year, before decline in third year and will most likely leave or get sacked at some point this season or at the end.

There's a very distinct pattern with Mourinho, trophies delivered on a platter early on before he quits or gets sacked due to a steady decline in performances. Obviously he's a world class manager, but I don't think he is the right man for us.
 
It's a circus at Madrid. No manager should ever be judged on what happens there. Also, you can hardly blame Inter's failings under Rafa on Mourinho.
 
I should add this wll definitely be his last season there though. I'm in no doubt he'll leave (one way or another) at the end of this season.
 
shaggy said:
Seems to start falling apart for him in the third season of every club he manages.

Porto - Won the treble in his second year, then quit for Chelsea.
Chelsea - Outstanding for two years before declining and eventually getting sacked at the start of fourth year. Chelsea were pretty dire at the time of his dismissal.
Inter - Won the treble in his second year, then quit for Madrid. Inter fell apart.
Madrid - Won the league in his second year, before decline in third year and will most likely leave or get sacked at some point this season or at the end.

There's a very distinct pattern with Mourinho, trophies delivered on a platter early on before he quits or gets sacked due to a steady decline in performances. Obviously he's a world class manager, but I don't think he is the right man for us.
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You can't exactly blame him for any decline to Inter and Porto, considering he had left them by their 3rd season. If anything, their declines show just how good a manager he is and how dependent they became on him.

Also, there are a lot of other circumstances at these other clubs, such as the boardroom troubles which clearly have a negative effect. I think you have to look at them as well.
 
#Carl said:
It's a circus at Madrid. No manager should ever be judged on what happens there. Also, you can hardly blame Inter's failings under Rafa on Mourinho.
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I'm not blaming Mourinho for Inter's failing at all, he was asked to deliver the Champions League and did so, but in doing so Inter were left with a quite poor squad where Benitez was then blamed entirely, which was unfair. Inter have been through a load of managers since Mourinho, which suggests their team isn't really that good, rather than one man coming in and ruining the club i.e Benitez.

He should also be doing a lot better in the league with this Madrid side. Of course it would have been a virtually impossible task this year to win it as Barca have won all but one game, but they still should be a lot higher up the table. He now has to win the Champions League or this season will be another 3rd season failure and I don't think they will.

I'm not blaming him at all for the decline of Porto or Inter, as I think he did a fantastic job there, but I don't think a 2/3 year smash and grab is what we should be looking for in a manager. No we will never get another Fergie, but I would still like a manager who will build a squad, plan for the future and get given at least 4 or 5 years here.
 
shaggy said:
Seems to start falling apart for him in the third season of every club he manages.

Porto - Won the treble in his second year, then quit for Chelsea.
Chelsea - Outstanding for two years before declining and eventually getting sacked at the start of fourth year. Chelsea were pretty dire at the time of his dismissal.
Inter - Won the treble in his second year, then quit for Madrid. Inter fell apart.
Madrid - Won the league in his second year, before decline in third year and will most likely leave or get sacked at some point this season or at the end.

There's a very distinct pattern with Mourinho, trophies delivered on a platter early on before he quits or gets sacked due to a steady decline in performances. Obviously he's a world class manager, but I don't think he is the right man for us.
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He is a great manager, there is no doubt about that. However, as you rightly state in your last paragraph, he is clearly not the right man for us. Manchester United want stability just as they have under Sir Alex and have had for a long time. I do not want a manager who is going to be there for 3-4 years max because he simply wants to be remembered as a successful manager rather than a failure. The only club that will suit him down to the ground where he can spend as much money as he wants, where he can control the players, would be the bitters. Mourinho and Manchester City are suited, hand in glove if you will. Having Mourinho at Manchester United as manager, would be like inviting Hannibal Lectar for a meal and a nightcap.
 
Cheesy said:
You can't exactly blame him for any decline to Inter and Porto, considering he had left them by their 3rd season. If anything, their declines show just how good a manager he is and how dependent they became on him.

Also, there are a lot of other circumstances at these other clubs, such as the boardroom troubles which clearly have a negative effect. I think you have to look at them as well.
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Agree on Inter and Porto. Was there anything bad at Porto when he left? I'd also add Chelsea to the list. What exactly was his fault there? Lasted at that circus far longer than the others.
 
shaggy said:
Seems to start falling apart for him in the third season of every club he manages.

Porto - Won the treble in his second year, then quit for Chelsea.
Chelsea - Outstanding for two years before declining and eventually getting sacked at the start of fourth year. Chelsea were pretty dire at the time of his dismissal.
Inter - Won the treble in his second year, then quit for Madrid. Inter fell apart.
Madrid - Won the league in his second year, before decline in third year and will most likely leave or get sacked at some point this season or at the end.

There's a very distinct pattern with Mourinho, trophies delivered on a platter early on before he quits or gets sacked due to a steady decline in performances. Obviously he's a world class manager, but I don't think he is the right man for us.
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Very little substance to these claims IMO.
 
shaggy said:
Seems to start falling apart for him in the third season of every club he manages.

Porto - Won the treble in his second year, then quit for Chelsea.
Chelsea - Outstanding for two years before declining and eventually getting sacked at the start of fourth year. Chelsea were pretty dire at the time of his dismissal.
Inter - Won the treble in his second year, then quit for Madrid. Inter fell apart.
Madrid - Won the league in his second year, before decline in third year and will most likely leave or get sacked at some point this season or at the end.

There's a very distinct pattern with Mourinho, trophies delivered on a platter early on before he quits or gets sacked due to a steady decline in performances. Obviously he's a world class manager, but I don't think he is the right man for us.
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Very much from the Ernst Happel school of management. I think he said something like the 3rd season is always the killer. All about short-term success and personal ambition, no sense of belonging or respect for the clubs.
 
Brwned said:
Very much from the Ernst Happel school of management. I think he said something like the 3rd season is always the killer. All about short-term success and personal ambition, no sense of belonging or respect for the clubs.
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Hmmm.. there is no telling when and if he would have left Chelsea. He still refers to himself as a Chelsea fan at times and speaks fondly of them. The Inter thing is again different, only those who were in Italy know what I mean. There was no way he could have stayed in Italian football for long given the amount of hostility he faced from Italian press. What is an indictment of him is if he leaves Madrid early as well. I think with him it seems to the case of expecting other countries to provide him the status he gained at England, especially with the press here. I won't surprised if he manages an English club next and stays at that one for quite some time.
 
Mourinho's been in Dubai picking up a manager of the season award.

He says he has no plan to leave Madrid and that he's hoping to pick up his third and Madrid's tenth CL.

He also said that while he didn't like the Malaga result but overall he was feeling happy with his week as he'd done what needed to be done - picked the team.

A few more highlights theb - in response to the Italian press asking him about dropping Casillas "a monument" - I guess meant the same way as we use icon.
"I don't see [Casillas] as a monument. For me the monument is Real Madrid and the Real Madrid coach must always do what's best for the team. It's as simple as that. I don't see the need to kick up a fuss or talk about monuments or any of that stuff", Mourinho said with regards to the backlash that followed his decision to drop the club captain and legend to the bench.

Mourinho showered praise on another of his charges, Cristiano Ronaldo, who garnered the Globe Soccer Player of the Year Award last time around. "He's a star; everyone wants a player like him because of his personality and determination. Everyone knows he is the best and is right behind him. He belongs amongst the big clubs", the Portuguese tactician added.

The 'Special One' also lifted the lid on the challenges of coaching a big club: "A coach goes through good spells and bad spells. It's not easy to be in charge of a squad with 20-25 players, all from different countries. Football must be the most important thing in their lives, and you have to hammer that home. My main goal is to keep my players motivated on a day-to-day basis".
 
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That a picture from the event or talks between City and him already?
 
jojojo said:
Mourinho's been in Dubai picking up a manager of the season award.

He says he has no plan to leave Madrid and that he's hoping to pick up his third and Madrid's tenth CL.

He also said that while he didn't like the Malaga result but overall he was feeling happy with his week as he'd done what needed to be done - picked the team.

A few more highlights theb - in response to the Italian press asking him about dropping Casillas "a monument" - I guess meant the same way as we use icon.
"I don't see [Casillas] as a monument. For me the monument is Real Madrid and the Real Madrid coach must always do what's best for the team. It's as simple as that. I don't see the need to kick up a fuss or talk about monuments or any of that stuff", Mourinho said with regards to the backlash that followed his decision to drop the club captain and legend to the bench.

Mourinho showered praise on another of his charges, Cristiano Ronaldo, who garnered the Globe Soccer Player of the Year Award last time around. "He's a star; everyone wants a player like him because of his personality and determination. Everyone knows he is the best and is right behind him. He belongs amongst the big clubs", the Portuguese tactician added.

The 'Special One' also lifted the lid on the challenges of coaching a big club: "A coach goes through good spells and bad spells. It's not easy to be in charge of a squad with 20-25 players, all from different countries. Football must be the most important thing in their lives, and you have to hammer that home. My main goal is to keep my players motivated on a day-to-day basis".
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I have noticed how this season he's been showering with praise the Portuguese contingent (Ronaldo, but also Coentrao, Pepe) while singling out Casillas, Ramos, Ozil, Khedira, Higuain, Benzema. I think Mourinho's reign at Madrid is done at the end of the season, or CL elimination - whichever comes first.
 
Suedesi said:
I have noticed how this season he's been showering with praise the Portuguese contingent (Ronaldo, but also Coentrao, Pepe) while singling out Casillas, Ramos, Ozil, Khedira, Higuain, Benzema. I think Mourinho's reign at Madrid is done at the end of the season, or CL elimination - whichever comes first.
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This was a context thing as much as anything. People keep asking him about Ronaldo - Vs Messi, the Ballon D'Or, the contract renewal, the offensive chants (at aways!), PSG etc - and whatever the answer is, it always gets reported. He did single him out for praise after one match on the grounds that he had at least kept fighting for a result - and it was deserved.

Coentrao is treated by the Madrid press as Bebe is by ours - the mystery purchase, a Mourinho-Mendes bonus scheme purchase if you read (not far) between the lines. He also gave Carvalho a contract renewal and he's scarcely had a game since, which doesn't help stop the speculation.

As for singling out the other players - he's not done much of that. He said he'd liked to have changed 7 players at halftime in one game, the press do the rest. Everyone knows he's not happy with Ozil's inconsistency (or his fitness) which is why he regularly gets subbed off, but he praises him when he plays well.

There's no doubt he doesn't like the cosy relationship between some players and the press. It's hard to imagine SAF tolerating that at United, but of course those players were there before Mou and will be there after so it's a different situation.

The only surprising remarks were about Casillas being dropped because of his form (rather than "rested" or similar platitude) which sounded like a declaration of war. Like all soap opera fans left with a cliffhanger, we await the aftermath of that.

Yesterday Madrid had an open training session, 7000 fans in their reserve team stadium. The loudest cheers were for Iker, Iker, Iker with Cristiano getting a good chorus as well. Mourinho was a poor third.
 
Still think that he will join Man City, Mancini has built a good base there and he will have millions to spend so is perfect for him. Just like when he joined Chelsea, Inter and R.Madrid really, foundations laid and he can build upon them.
 
Yep. It's possible that he'll want to be the first coach to win a CL for City (translated: he'll want to be the first coach to win a 3rd -or possibly 4th - CL with different teams). He'd only be reprising/continuing SAF's work if he came to United; not unique enough for José.
 
JazzG said:
Still think that he will join Man City, Mancini has built a good base there and he will have millions to spend so is perfect for him. Just like when he joined Chelsea, Inter and R.Madrid really, foundations laid and he can build upon them.
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He's done the whole City thing before though at Chelsea. I honestly can't see him going there. I think Guardiola has already got that job.
 
Curiously enough, I've just read that (apparently) the ex-Barca people recently hired by City don't want José there.
 
SteveJ said:
Curiously enough, I've just read that (apparently) the ex-Barca people recently hired by City don't want José there.
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They are setting it up for Pep. The fact they didn't support Mancini in the summer regarding transfers told a lot. They gave him stop gap signings such as Maicon or others that are just nothing signings like Sinclair and Garcia.
 
Suedesi said:
I have noticed how this season he's been showering with praise the Portuguese contingent (Ronaldo, but also Coentrao, Pepe) while singling out Casillas, Ramos, Ozil, Khedira, Higuain, Benzema. I think Mourinho's reign at Madrid is done at the end of the season, or CL elimination - whichever comes first.
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This is a very important point made there. He is very quick to praise his Portuguese players in print. It is that point that creates a division within the team. Watch this space, for when he comes to Old Trafford, don't be surprised to see Mourinho bring in Coentrao, Pepe, Ronaldo.
 
Cheesy said:
You can't exactly blame him for any decline to Inter and Porto, considering he had left them by their 3rd season. If anything, their declines show just how good a manager he is and how dependent they became on him.

Also, there are a lot of other circumstances at these other clubs, such as the boardroom troubles which clearly have a negative effect. I think you have to look at them as well.
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And the fact that he won the CL with both sides before moving on to what he considered better jobs.

The suggestion that Cheslea were waning doesn't hold up to scrutiny either - that season Avram "relegation specialist" Grant took them to the CL final - with the same team and the same tactics. That team also formed the bedrock of Cheslea's further success under other managers.

I'd say the fact that the teams tend to decline after he leaves as a positive reflection on his skills as a manager.

I think he's done OK at Madrid - won a few trophioes against arguably the best clubs side ever. I've mentioned it before on this thread but Madrid are closer as a side to Barca than they were, its just that Barca are such a good side. I can't see that any other manager would have done better than Mourinho has.

The issues going on behind the scenes also don't help - too many people with too much to say. They've always had issues with ex (and sometimes current) players making ill-advised comments and causing trouble. To me it seems Mourinho wants to do things his way (like many managers would) but isn't able to do that. Real seem to want a "yes man" who'll make all the right noises and keep the president happy. Not always condusive with success.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
This is a very important point made there. He is very quick to praise his Portuguese players in print. It is that point that creates a division within the team. Watch this space, for when he comes to Old Trafford, don't be surprised to see Mourinho bring in Coentrao, Pepe, Ronaldo.
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With the exception of Pepe I'd be more than happy to have them at OT to be fair.
 
Mourinho sets his teams up in a very stereotypical Portuguese way though doesn't he? It's always 4-3-3, well organised defensively with a direct mostly on the deck ball playing style, a powerful, aerial threat up front, a proper number 10 providing most of the creativity and a loose appreciation of fair play.

It makes sense that he'd want to sign a load of Portuguese players that already fit into his mould of how a team should play rather than English players who can't get to grips with his complex tactics or Brazilians/Spaniards who don't want to play such a strict system.
 
RedRover said:
And the fact that he won the CL with both sides before moving on to what he considered better jobs.

The suggestion that Cheslea were waning doesn't hold up to scrutiny either - that season Avram "relegation specialist" Grant took them to the CL final - with the same team and the same tactics. That team also formed the bedrock of Cheslea's further success under other managers.

I'd say the fact that the teams tend to decline after he leaves as a positive reflection on his skills as a manager.

I think he's done OK at Madrid - won a few trophioes against arguably the best clubs side ever. I've mentioned it before on this thread but Madrid are closer as a side to Barca than they were, its just that Barca are such a good side. I can't see that any other manager would have done better than Mourinho has.

The issues going on behind the scenes also don't help - too many people with too much to say. They've always had issues with ex (and sometimes current) players making ill-advised comments and causing trouble. To me it seems Mourinho wants to do things his way (like many managers would) but isn't able to do that. Real seem to want a "yes man" who'll make all the right noises and keep the president happy. Not always condusive with success.
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If he doesn't win the CL this season then his time there should be deemed as a relative failure and rightly so, especially if Barca end up doing the League and CL double (half of which is just about done). I think people are forgetting that this Real Madrid squad is the most expensively assembled squad in the history of football. Yeah, Barca are one of the best teams ever? Well, Mourinho is also being touted as one of the best coaches ever, in that case he should be doing better with that squad, no?

If Madrid get knocked out of the CL and Barca win it, he would have won 1 major title in 3 years, to Barca's 4. At the moment it's looking like no matter what happens this season Barca will have won at least 3 out of the 6 major (League and CL) titles during Mourinho's reign in Spain. He was employed to shift the balance of power to Madrid and dominate Barca, not for damage limitation. The less said about his head to head record against Barca the better.

You say you can't see anyone doing better than him, yet Pellegrini was only 4 points adrift from the 100 point record Madrid set last season, beaten only by Barca's ridiculous 99 point haul in the 09/10 season. Pellegrini did this with a team that lost Ronaldo for almost 2 months, and without Ozil, those 2 players won Madrid the title last season and are unquestionably his 2 best players. How would Mourinho have coped without them against the Barca side of 09/10 that amassed 99 fecking points?
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Inspectah deck said:
You say you can't see anyone doing better than him, yet Pellegrini was only 4 points adrift from the 100 point record Madrid set last season, beaten only by Barca's ridiculous 99 point haul in the 09/10 season. Pellegrini did this with a team that lost Ronaldo for almost 2 months, and without Ozil, those 2 players won Madrid the title last season and are unquestionable his 2 best players. How would Mourinho have coped without them against the Barca side of 09/10 that amassed 99 fecking points?
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I think the rest of La Liga is a fair bit better now than they were then, except for probably Valencia.
 
Jose Mourinho: “I was still a very young coach when I left Portugal to go to England. There couldn't be a better place to go. In England you feel the real passion for the game. I know that one day I will come back because English football means a lot to myself."

He is desperately itching to come back.
 
coolredwine said:
Jose Mourinho: “I was still a very young coach when I left Portugal to go to England. There couldn't be a better place to go. In England you feel the real passion for the game. I know that one day I will come back because English football means a lot to myself."

He is desperately itching to come back.
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To manage in England, yes.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
To manage in England, yes.
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One only needs a brief look at his personality and that is quite easy to understand, makes a lot of sense, and the same can be said of Villas Boas.

He's widely admired in Portugal, now that he's gone. When he was here, his personality was constantly under scrutiny. People around here much prefer false modesty than some witty and cocky arrogance, even if backed by results. Italy in Spain aren't likely much different.

I know there are tabloids and all that crap, but he probably feels he's a lot more respected inside his medium, which is football, and doesn't care much what details of his life Daily Mail users are discussing. Here, those areas are mixed in a lot more depth.

I think the British "style", humour, etc, are more catering to personalities like him than latin countries. I feel exactly the same way, probably the reason why I spend so much time in the cafe in comparison to Portuguese forums.

I think his preference to go to England isn't exclusively related to football, and even for those reasons it is still probably the most interesting place to ply your trade. I know where I would want to do it if I was connected to football (other than Porto of course).
 
We are generally much more laid back, don't take ourselves too seriously and like characters in this country, that's just the way it is. Mourinho knows the media love him over here because he's a rent-a-quote manager, and that does their work for them. He knows he is basically immune to criticism here, he was lauded first time round and since he's been gone his stock has risen even more due to his amazing achievements at Inter.

He knows he can basically say what he wants over here and the papers won't be plotting against him. I think we get his humour, and he gets ours.
 
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