PL two years in a row. In the third year he was in contention until very late, and won the FA Cup. Which is hardly a club in meltdown, is it.
Mourinho | New old Chelsea manager
- Thread starter Suedesi
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Have to take the clubs he's been at into consideration and the job he was hired to do as well. I don't know much about his time at Porto in all honesty, so I'll just skip that. However:
Chelsea: Hired by a mad Russian who desperately wants to win trophies at all cost. There's no room (or reason) to experiment with young players when you've got an unlimited money tank and incredibly high expectations. Particularly not when you know that your boss won't think twice about firing your ass if you don't deliver.
Inter: If I'm not mistaken Mourinho was hired to deliver trophies right away. The squad was already ageing, so unless Mourinho wanted to rebuild pretty much the whole team there was no time to experiment. That being said, he did use Balotelli and if he hadn't been wearing Milan shirts around town he would probably have been used more.
Real Madrid: Bit like Chelsea, minus the Russian. Under insane pressure to deliver results on the pitch and the club doesn't have a particularly great history of bringing through young players even before Mourinho got there. Can hardly blame Mourinho for not bringing through enough young players in his time there really.
Let it be clear that I'm not really a massive fan of Mourinho. His results speak for themselves, but beyond that I'm not so sure what I think of him. It's clear from the clubs he's been at (after Porto) that they all hired him to win trophies - he wasn't hired to rebuild a squad or to start some new era. He was hired to be successful on the pitch right away which leaves little room (or reason) for trying to bring through young players. Would he do differently at United? I suspect he will, if that's what he's asked to. It's impossible to say though.
So where's he off to then? Really can't see Fergie retiring unless we win the lot this season... which is highly unlikely.
Good points, Wowi.
If anyone has the temperament to deal with taking over from Sir Alex, and being the first ever Man Utd manager from outside the British Isles it's Jose Mourinho
I have the same concerns as everyone else; he's a bit of a dick, doesn't stay very long at a club, I'm not convinced he knows the transfer market very well and doesn't bring young players through..
can't argue with his results though, and maybe if he's expected to bring young players through and is given latitude for it, he will do.
I have the same concerns as everyone else; he's a bit of a dick, doesn't stay very long at a club, I'm not convinced he knows the transfer market very well and doesn't bring young players through..
can't argue with his results though, and maybe if he's expected to bring young players through and is given latitude for it, he will do.
His record speaks for itself, and I'd be happy with his appointment.
I think you have unwittingly concentrated on only half of the enormous benefit he had at Barcelona. Lets not forget that he had been there since a child ball boy, worked his way up the ladder all the way to club captain and eventually manager at an amazing young age.
My point being he knew the culture, organisational dynamics and people at the club inside out before he took the job. And so his knowledge on how to make changes and get things done, on the people politics that existed as well, his knowledge of the type of football the fane demanded was being played as well as knowing what talent was coming through the club etc etce etc was better than anyone else on the planet who could have taken the job at the time.
That, added to the inheritance of already great squad amassed by Rijkaard and the smorgasbord of world class talent peaking in one era, gave him 2 massive factors to ensure success that he will not get in a new job outside of Barcelona.
Walking into a new club, lets say Chelsea, City or Juventus, he has to quickly acquire knowledge and experience of the existing club players, culture and ways of working, learn how to consistently win games in a different footballing country with opponents he has never met before (can he prepare a team to in on a cold windy night in Stoke?!) as well as all the personal challenges that face an expat when they arrive in anew country.
Im not saying he can't do it, but he has all that to prove. Mourinho does not. Thats why in my opinion, Gourdiola's successes at Barcelona are excessively over rated, perhaps as the current manager is proving this season by taking the same team and winning 40 out of the available 42 points of the season so far.
Unless United appoint a SAF ex player like OGS or Mourinho, the next manager at Manchester United faces the same challenge. Trying to get your head around all the inputs is like trying to boil an ocean.
He never left Chelsea, he was removed.
The situation at Inter was as such that there is no way he would have stayed in Italy for a longer time. I was in Italy at the time and the Italian press hated him as much as the English press loved him. I think he would have left Inter that season even if they had not won the CL.
I don't have any concerns and think the behaviours you have noted are ones that were indicative of the jobs he has had so far, or indeed good examples of a manager whom is willing to fight to the hilt to protect his team.
As somebody posted above, none of the jobs he has had so far demanded he develop young players. And most examples of unsavaoury behaviour, I think we would be delighted if SAF had done similar in defence of his team.
As an aside, it would be great if succession planning could be so wonderful that SAF sadly take his bow and Mourinho be available on the market. But these perfect scenario's never work. Even in the corp[orate or public sector where job turnover is slightly more easy to predict.
However, this particular job is amongst the very few most prestigious in its industry and has not been available for 26+ years. I'd imagine when the job does crop up as an opportunity, every suitable manager in world football would be tempted, no matter when he signed his existing contract was signed. I imagine the predictable suspects may even have clauses built into existing contracts that allowed them to leave (for a fee) should it be Manchester United that was offering them a job.
Anyway I digress. I'd love Jose Mourinho to be our next manager. Or Ole Gunner Solskjaer if we took the homegrown route.
It may be that we have to accept that the sea change in football will also affect United. By this I mean that our traditional & exemplary emphasis on bringing through young players may have to become ony a niche matter compared to achieving success by signing more-or-less established players. For various reasons (the club's debt, which requires us to have a certain level of success; our rivals' unprecedented spending on ready-made solutions; supporters' impatience etc etc) we might see ever more of the RVP-type signings, and less of the 'local boy made good' side of United's footballing management. More to the thread's point, this sea change would make Mourinho a better fit for us than previously.
Mourinho would be a brilliant replacement for Fergie. I think he'd get Old Trafford rocking again with his antics and his words.
However, I'm not convinced he will actually be our next manager. Fergies words seem to have been taken a bit out of context, plus Mourinho recently said he thinks he'll return to the premiership whilst Fergie is still in charger here. I took that as him saying he'd be interested in the City or Chelsea jobs.
However, I'm not convinced he will actually be our next manager. Fergies words seem to have been taken a bit out of context, plus Mourinho recently said he thinks he'll return to the premiership whilst Fergie is still in charger here. I took that as him saying he'd be interested in the City or Chelsea jobs.
I maintain, even if he were manager of either of these 2 sides, the moment the United job came up as a possibility, he'd ditch either in a heart beat. Let City or the Chavs have Guardiola.
I know what you mean. He's made for the United job. The club can give him everything he wants and the supporters will love him. I've heard a few people mention it, but during our rivalry with Chelsea the 'Mourinho, are you listening...' chants were brilliant, but you still could sense the massive amount of respect for the guy. You just knew that you'd want him on our side, turn those into positive songs/chants and it'd be buzzing. He'd be I his element.
How much of a bearing will Bobby Charltons words have on it though? Didn't he once say that he dint like the guy?
How much of a bearing will Bobby Charltons words have on it though? Didn't he once say that he dint like the guy?
Who does?
SAF had his fair share of being a dick himself if we're being honest, he's the biggest dick in the block, but he's our dick
"Friends are like this," Mourinho said. "Friends always speak well of each other.
"His succession isn't near. It should be in 10 years or so. He is getting better and better. He is stronger all the time. Why should he retire?"
(F365)
"His succession isn't near. It should be in 10 years or so. He is getting better and better. He is stronger all the time. Why should he retire?"
(F365)
Why would you expect that the situation would be different with United? He won't be expected to win trophies right away? Will the fans wait for 5 trophy-less years before he can bring success? I don't think so.
Manchester United manager Alex Ferguson has spoken about Mourinho as a possible candidate to succeed him at Old Trafford.
"Friends are like this," Mourinho said. "Friends always speak well of each other.
"His succession isn't near. It should be in 10 years or so. He is getting better and better. He is stronger all the time. Why should he retire?"
"Friends are like this," Mourinho said. "Friends always speak well of each other.
"His succession isn't near. It should be in 10 years or so. He is getting better and better. He is stronger all the time. Why should he retire?"
Luckily, our board does not listen to our fans on the terraces or on RedCafe
Else they would have sacked SAF 5 years into his job with us, as fans were openly demanding!
If any new managers trophy haul was not immediate, they will know we do not in terms of philosophy or policy adopt a Chelsea/Madrid type approach to appointing senior staff members, especially the most important position in the club, which is manager. Its just not the way we do things.
Luckily, our board does not listen to our fans on the terraces or on RedCafe
Else they would have sacked SAF 5 years into his job with us, as fans were openly demanding!
If any new managers trophy haul was not immediate, they will know we do not in terms of philosophy or policy adopt a Chelsea/Madrid type approach to appointing senior staff members, especially the most important position in the club, which is manager. Its just not the way we do things.
The problem is that we have different owners now. Owners who need money. Owners who need results. Quick.
I think that if he take the job as United manager he'd see it as a long-term project. Probably the first in his career. I think that would be the difference between how he'd tackle the challenge compared to how he's tackled challenges up till now. Of course we'd expect trophies right away from him as well, but unlike Chelsea and Real Madrid we don't expect to win the league every year (well, I suppose some fans do..) and we don't expect a CL trophy right away either. United would also offer some patience, which Madrid and Chelsea are hardly known for. Basically, it'd be a completely different challenge and therefore I believe Mourinho would handle it differently.
Big question is of course if he's capable of actually building teams like Sir Alex has done so many times, but that's impossible to say really. Also begs the question; who else would be a better shot in the current market? Pep who hasn't proved anything at all outside Barca? As I said, I'm not a massive Mourinho fan but to me he does seem like the best option right now, should Fergie retire soon.
Fait point Danny, but I highly doubt we will drop out of CL places or in contention to win the PL in the immediate seasons after SAF, such is our current squad stocked with prodigious youth.
Also whomever the board chooses, the new manger is going to be world class no matter who he is.
Also whomever the board chooses, the new manger is going to be world class no matter who he is.
Whilst not the perfect example, Mourinho deserves credit for developing and transforming an initially very hesitant Benzema into the world class striker he is right now.
Jose Mourinho: Real Madrid boss dismisses quit report in paper
Jose Mourinho has dismissed a report in Spanish paper Marca that he will leave Real Madrid at the end of the season.
The Real coach has been jeered by the club's fans following a slow start to the season that has seen them fall 11 points behind Barcelona after 14 games.
Marca's report said the relationship between Mourinho and Real president Florentino Perez had become "exhausted" and "cannot continue beyond 30 June".
Mourinho said: "I am not speaking about this", adding "there's no story".
Madrid-based paper Marca, which is known to have strong links with Real, ran its story under a picture of a broken heart.
In it, Marca related that Perez believes Mourinho is "committing suicide" after the Portuguese chose to appear at the side of the Bernabeu pitch to hear the frustrations of supporters 40 minutes before Saturday's 2-0 win over second-placed Atletico Madrid in the Primera Liga.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20581487
Jose Mourinho has dismissed a report in Spanish paper Marca that he will leave Real Madrid at the end of the season.
The Real coach has been jeered by the club's fans following a slow start to the season that has seen them fall 11 points behind Barcelona after 14 games.
Marca's report said the relationship between Mourinho and Real president Florentino Perez had become "exhausted" and "cannot continue beyond 30 June".
Mourinho said: "I am not speaking about this", adding "there's no story".
Madrid-based paper Marca, which is known to have strong links with Real, ran its story under a picture of a broken heart.
In it, Marca related that Perez believes Mourinho is "committing suicide" after the Portuguese chose to appear at the side of the Bernabeu pitch to hear the frustrations of supporters 40 minutes before Saturday's 2-0 win over second-placed Atletico Madrid in the Primera Liga.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20581487
Here are my concerns:
1. I want a manager who will stay a long time. Okay, maybe not as long as SAF but no fly-by-night. Would Jose and/or his wife want to remain in gray, cold, rainy Manchester for years and years?
2. SAF has always struck me as an exceptionally shrewed human being in general. Does Jose compare in this regard?
3. SAF also has exceptional man management skills, and this is not limited to father-figure handling of certain players like Ronaldo and Rooney. Do Jose's man-mangement skills compare to Fergie's?
4. SAF's mind games top the league. (That's a facht). How do Jose's compare with Sir Alex's ability to institute and control mind games.
1. I want a manager who will stay a long time. Okay, maybe not as long as SAF but no fly-by-night. Would Jose and/or his wife want to remain in gray, cold, rainy Manchester for years and years?
2. SAF has always struck me as an exceptionally shrewed human being in general. Does Jose compare in this regard?
3. SAF also has exceptional man management skills, and this is not limited to father-figure handling of certain players like Ronaldo and Rooney. Do Jose's man-mangement skills compare to Fergie's?
4. SAF's mind games top the league. (That's a facht). How do Jose's compare with Sir Alex's ability to institute and control mind games.
City will throw so much loot at Mourinho he won't be able to say no. That is unless he sees City as a shit club despite the unlimited funds he would possess.
Mourinho has always seen the United job as the top of the mountain so he very well could remain at the club for a long tour.
Guardiola and Moyes would also be in line as SAF's successor, but I have a twinkling Guardiola would take the Arsenal job if offered.
Mourinho has always seen the United job as the top of the mountain so he very well could remain at the club for a long tour.
Guardiola and Moyes would also be in line as SAF's successor, but I have a twinkling Guardiola would take the Arsenal job if offered.
In far of the managing aspect of the game Mourinho is the closest thing to SAF you'll get. For example, when SAF is in the transfer market he usually takes a good look at a player and makes sure he's suited mentally for the team. Jose is like that as well. You probably remember the Chelsea team and how it was. The current Real team play excellent attacking football at times and every single player is hard working and dedicated. If not, you're not going to play. Benzema is a prime example.
Number 1 is the one of two concerns people generally have with him. England isn't the problem, nor the weather. He likes England, he owns a house here and he's said he wants to return.
The other thing is his character. And I mean character. Some people have a problem with it. The way he speaks and behaves. I agree that it gets out of hand at times. But the man is usually right with most things he says and does. Some find that annoying because the last thing you want from a person whom you don't like is that person being right and/or successful.
I don't know what to expect when SAF finally does retire. It will be surreal. I'm just gonna sit back, give the successor time, be patient and hope he does well.
Did anyone watch the documentary on Mourinho tonight on itv4?
What a really interesting character. I have warmed to him.
Fergie commented alot throughout and he seems to really like him too. Very complimentary. I do think he would be good at United.
What a really interesting character. I have warmed to him.
Fergie commented alot throughout and he seems to really like him too. Very complimentary. I do think he would be good at United.
Yeah. Fergie most certainly has a lot of time for him. I can understand why people don't like him, but I find his honesty likeable.
Yeah, enjoyed that. I'd love Jose at Utd. The worry is how long would he stick around if he wants to manage his country. Unless he leaves Madrid in the summer, goes for the next World Cup with Portugal and then takes over Utd when Fergie retires in time for the 2014/15 season.
Eh? That's just mental.
If you think of Ferguson then some of the first things that come to mind are being a one club man, playing attacking football, promoting youth players, signing young talent in the transfer market. Mourinho doesn't do any of these.
You've highlighted their transfer dealings as being similar, but they really aren't. Mourinho doesn't have Ferguson's tendency to purchase a prospect, he is much more about buying established stars. Robben was the standout buy from that era but he was bought before Jose was hired, who then bought Drogba, Carvalho, Ferreira, Kezman etc. Next year he spent £60million on Essien and Wright-Phillips, whereas Fergie spent £16million on Vidic and Evra. He doesn't have the same record of buying prospects IMO, players like Hernandez.
Same at Inter Milan where he didn't buy young players, which has left them completely fecked now with a really old team. Sneijder, Lucio, Pandev, Milito, Thiago Motta, Eto'o were all 25+. Some of them are good signings, but they are all established players which isn't the case with Ferguson.
Yeah I watched it and really enjoyed it. Fergie spoke very highly of him, it's obvious they have a great mutual respect for each other. Despite warming to him a bit more I still can't see him at United though. Brilliant manager but just don't think he fits the United mould.
All a matter of opinion though.
Do not want Mourinho at our club. He's a nomad: never stays longer at one club. Do we really need such a manager? No doubt is he a special one, but his pre-match antics against Atletico Madrid reminds me what kind of person he is: when facing problems he threatens to quit.
The thing for me is Fergie will have a say in who takes over at United. This has already been said.
He seems to have a great friendship with Mourinho and didn't have a bad word to say about him throughout the documentary. Would he put him forward to take over at United? Would he ring him and have a word in his ear?
I think the answer to both of those questions is yes and I don't think Mourinho would refuse.
Hopefully that documentary about him on ITV tonight finds its way on here tomorrow.
Any manager who comes in after Ferguson will only be here for about five seasons anyway, in my opinion. Managers don't stick at one club at the very highest anymore. Ferguson, Wenger etc. are the last of a dying breed.
Disagree here.
Yes he has been to a few clubs but how can you pre-empt what he will do in the future. If he finds somewhere he feels settled, which may well be England considering he is adamant he is going back, then why won't he stay and become a legend somewhere?
He is still young and has been enjoying himself. He will want to settle at somepoint I am sure.
to be honest i didn't see anything on the docu that changed my opinion of him.
Wasn't his plan always to return to England for a few years after Spain, then take over Portugal, then retire by sixty?
That's not at all what I was saying. Managerial wise or transfer wise. I was not saying they were the same kind of managers. One club mind is completely irrelevant to this point. Mourinho is 2 years older than SAF was when he took over United. United was his 5th team. There's no comparison to be made there as it can't be made with any definitive.
Mourinho doesn't play attacking football? Ok then...
Regarding the youth. There are many managers on par with SAF in that regards. But you need to have been at a club for 3-4+ years to bring through your own youth.
I highlighted a specific aspect about the transfer dealings. You went completely away from that point. You list up a bunch of Chelsea purchases. You very well know that the manager doesn't have full control over there. Why mention them if you don't know for certain that they were his deals?
Players like Hernandez come what, once every 8-10 years for SAF? Solskjær off the top of my head.