That could be said of any United team. The truth is Fergie isn't going to manage forever and its quite rare for a manager who had previously committed to retiring by 60 to manage well into his 70s, particularly when he's well aware of what happened to Jock Stein. Whether or not Mourinho stays at Madrid would probably not matter given that he could easily take a year or two off before taking another managing job.
Mourinho | New old Chelsea manager
- Thread starter Suedesi
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That could be said of any United team. The truth is Fergie isn't going to manage forever and its quite rare for a manager who had previously committed to retiring by 60 to manage well into his 70s, particularly when he's well aware of what happened to Jock Stein. Whether or not Mourinho stays at Madrid would probably not matter given that he could easily take a year or two off before taking another managing job.
Not as much as this one. We don't really have a core like the previous teams. Add Evra's decline and Fletcher's illness to the previous list and that leaves only Rooney, Valencia, Evans and Carrick as the players who have been here and won things. Only three of them as regular members. I don't think that Fergie is going to manage forever but I think it is imperative that for the benefit of this club that he sees through the latest transition. He needs to secure our future before he leaves. Things can go belly up pretty quickly in sports.
I am not aware of the Jock Stein story, so really can't comment on that. Just know him as a great Celtic manager.
He could take a year or two off. Let's see if that happens.
Hypothetically speaking if Fergie were to retire, there's no reason a qualified manager like Mourinho or Pep could walk in and get the best out of our young players.
Or they can take on Fergie's project and things go awry.
Why should he retire anyways, he is only 70. What is he going to do? Take up gardening at his advanced age? I think he mentioned in one of the interviews that he is not hands on with training and other stuff now. He said, with age he has learned to delegate better. There is no reason for him to not continue another couple of years and win some more titles. Preferably another couple Champions League crowns.
If Buffett can do it at 82, Fergie can do it at 70. (apple to oranges and all that, I know)
We don't know what is going to happen but I think the club would be in a better position if Sir Alex stays on for another couple of years.
As long as he still has the passion for managing Manchester United, I don't see any reason as to why he should retire anytime soon. I have never liked Mourinho and never hid the fact either, but he would be the last person I would have if I had the choice. We have a great reputation around the world and the last thing we want is for Mourinho to bring down that reputation that Sir Matt and Sir Alex have built up.
I hope he stays for another few years as well, but I'm also realistic that the older he gets the greater the chance he could retire at any given moment, especially if we win another another CL or a double.
We share the same fears.
Things can change dramatically by then. Depends what the situation is then, who is available, who is ready to come here etc. etc.
I have these fears that most here would want Mourinho not simply because he is a successful manager, but in the slightest hope that Ronaldo comes here with him. If indeed, there is a Spanish-Portuguese split within the dressing room, we would well see Pepe and Coentrao too here...and that fills me with dread.
If I was to have one manager here, it would have to be Guardiola since his record of using players from the youth talent pool is second to none, whereas Jose is used to spending obscene amounts of money to buy the best players.
The trouble with Guardiola is that he hasn't really proven himself outside Barca where he had the once in a lifetime benefit of the Messi-Xavi-Iniesta triumvirate. Having three of the world's top five players available would tend to make most managers successful, and yet Mourinho still managed to walk off with a Copa del Rey and La Liga trophy in their time together (although Pep did much better in league Classicos). I see Barca's return to the top this year as a sign that it was the players including probably having the greatest footballer ever in his prime in his squad, that made Pep as successful as he was.
The new guy isn't exactly struggling either is he.
Yeah Barca seem to be doing better this year than they were a year ago when Guardiola was still around.
May I wonder whose clubs reputation Mourinho has damaged so far?
With the 5-1 win over Athletic it's a record start, so yeah Tito has done amazing. 40 out of 42 possible points.
He's certainly been involved in some less than ethical episodes in the past. The Anders Frisk stuff, meeting Ashley Cole while he was at Arsenal, making his players get second yellows in the stupidest way possible, his Porto team's constant diving and time wasting, poking Vilanova in the eye etc.
I wouldn't be happy if SAF was involved in any of the above.
The only thing he's damaged are the aspirations of opposition clubs winning trophies.
And the clubs he manages after he's been there for over two years...
Twigg, your Mourinho hate is legendary stuff.
Yeah, we need an angel like Ferguson, right? He'd never put the club's future at risk in an argument over a racehorse/his bank balance, kick a boot at one of his own player's heads, get involved in a fight with one of his own players over a trophy parade, accuse referees of being unfit for the job, tell his own players to dive or hijack transfers while they are in progress against the will of the club doing the selling.
The most important thing when we're getting a new manager is that we continue to act as upholders of virtue in the Premier League and that the new manager, like his predecessor, never does anything unethical.
Club's future at risk over the Rock of Gibraltar? That's some extreme revisionism there. Ferguson may not be the angel incarnate, but he's a damn sight better than many of the supposedly good guys. For all his kicking a boot at Beckham, he has backed his players to the hilt when needed.
feck me, are you a troll? You're a bit over dramatic with those claims.
I agree with Kie's sentiments to quite a considerable extent. It is a bit blinkered to suggest Mourinho has dragged his clubs' names through the mud, but hold up SAF as a paragon of virtue. Both will do pretty much anything if they think it will swing the advantage even a fraction towards their team.
There are reasons to be hesitant about bringing in Mourinho, for sure. But I dont think reputational risk is one of them.
There are reasons to be hesitant about bringing in Mourinho, for sure. But I dont think reputational risk is one of them.
A testimony of how shit those who replace him are.
He's backed his players to the hilt when needed except when he's sent them out the door on numerous occasions. I wouldn't say he backs his players any more than Mourinho does.
What about this year?
I subscribe to Alan Davies' "Scorched Earth" policy with Mourinho. He has a cult like personality that will get players and staff alike right behind him for a few years. He comes in, is a very strong personality brings in some of the best players in the world and everything is great.
However he very rarely brings through youth, his personality inevitably ostracises power figures at the club and his persona means he's pretty much hounded out of the club. At this point the players are knackered, there's not much flesh blood knocking around and his personality suddenly seem that much "larger than life"
It's no coincidence in my mind that at the third year of every club he's been they've had much less success than the previous years.
Torn on this issue. I like Maureen and his track record speaks for itself, but I'm not convinced that he's the right man to replace the Wizard. Longevity has been a large part of Fergie's success and Mourinho hasn't yet stayed at a club for more than a few years. Arguably, Real are a bigger club than United yet the murmurings of discontent are there after, what, three seasons? How would we feel if he came here with all the attendant fanfare, only to sling his hook after a couple of seasons say if the Portugal job came up? I wouldn't like it that's for sure.
I suppose people will say that Fergie is a one-off; a manager who stays the course with a single club, and that he's the last of that breed, but I'm not so sure. I'll take stability over temporary glitz any day and that, for me, tips the scales away from Mourinho.
I suppose people will say that Fergie is a one-off; a manager who stays the course with a single club, and that he's the last of that breed, but I'm not so sure. I'll take stability over temporary glitz any day and that, for me, tips the scales away from Mourinho.
Never said he was an angel. Silly exaggerations aside, SAF hasn't done anything close to poking out an assistant manager's eye or blatantly lying to cause a referee and his family to receive death threats and retire from the job.
SAF has tapped up plenty of players over the years.
He has put pressure on officials before games and questioned their decisions and integrity after them.
He has waged total war on the BBC for the offence of pursuing a perfectly legitimate line of investigative inquiry. He terrorises journalists and excludes those that ask him awkward questions from press conferences.
I think the main difference between Mourinho and SAF in this sense is SAF takes more care to counterbalance these things by taking an interest in other teams and managers and being more courteous. You always here how he knows the names of not just everyone in football, but their wives and children, and always takes care to ask after them. I think he is better at being respectful about others, and humble. That probably wins him more friends among his peers.
Otherwise the two of them are cut from the same cloth.
He has put pressure on officials before games and questioned their decisions and integrity after them.
He has waged total war on the BBC for the offence of pursuing a perfectly legitimate line of investigative inquiry. He terrorises journalists and excludes those that ask him awkward questions from press conferences.
I think the main difference between Mourinho and SAF in this sense is SAF takes more care to counterbalance these things by taking an interest in other teams and managers and being more courteous. You always here how he knows the names of not just everyone in football, but their wives and children, and always takes care to ask after them. I think he is better at being respectful about others, and humble. That probably wins him more friends among his peers.
Otherwise the two of them are cut from the same cloth.
You arent alone by a long shot Twigg.....there are far more people who Dont want that arrogant self absourbed twat near the club than the pro mourinho brigade would have you believe.....apparently including our very own beloved Sir Bobby. But apparently our "only realistic choices" are a complete and utter bellend or a bloke who won things with a squad even David Pleat could have managed to a CL or two and quit the moment things got a bit dicey......
Or Moyes.
What about it ? He's sure to end up either 2nd or 1st, which given the high level Barca are playing at, wouldn't be too much of a disappointment.
Sounds like someone is clutching at straws. He's been the most successful manager in club football over the past decade. It must get annoying to have to deal with such inescapable facts.
David Pleat could've managed Porto to a CL ? That's some talent.
I don't know why it's laughable to say that Mourinho works in a short 1-2 year period. I think it's pretty accurate to be honest, with the facts also supporting the idea that the club he leaves is also left in a poor state. With Real Madrid he's 11 points behind Barce at the moment. That's not good enough.
Chelsea doesnt fit that model. He was successful there for longer than two years, and what success they have had since he left has been largely down to the legacy he left, not in spite of it.
Both are mindbeningly shallow arguments. All managers have off years, but none spare perhaps Fergie, win seven leagues and two CLs, a treble, and an ungodly amount of other trophies in a 10 year period. It would be best to just say you don't like him and leave it at that without trying to fabricate an alternate reality to prove nothing.
Try again......Pep never managed Porto.....Hence the complete Bellend (Jose) OR a bloke who won things with a squad even David Pleat could have managed to a CL or two and quit the moment things got a bit dicey......
No he wasnt and they have been moderately successfull since due to the obscene amount of money Comrade Roman is prepared to write off.
I agree with part of what Twigg is saying. It's a valid point to make that he's never stuck around to build more than one great team everywhere he's managed. He's usually off once the team's reached its peak.
Having said that, I'd still love to see him come here, win us trophies and leave after 3-4 years.
Having said that, I'd still love to see him come here, win us trophies and leave after 3-4 years.
That's an issue that's down to Abramovich's schizofrenic personality and not Mourinho.