Mourinho: "Luke Shaw a long way behind" | Shaw: "I will fight to the last second"

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whatwha said:
Uh yes, that was my understanding of what Jose said as well. I just don't think it helps to shame him in public about this. If Shaw can't trust his own memory of instructions given before he came on, can't trust his own impulses/thoughts about what to do on the pitch, is extra pressure from the media going to help?
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Take today as example. The press was thinking this was a good performance when Mourinho was not really happy & tried to set thing straight that Shaw didn't perform on his own and needed instructions feeding to him. If Mourinho diplomatically praised Shaw, the press would run with this false news. The next game Shaw doesn't start, they would jump on us. In reality Shaw had to improve himself & he may hear the false news & thinks that as what Mourinho really meant. When he privately got criticized he would be confused about Mourinho's intention.

There maybe a chance the private talk methods had been applied before to no effect.
 
I just don't think there's any defending those comments. It's stupid. What does it achieve? He's already hung him out to dry. Then he plays him tonight and makes this pisstake statement after. What is he thinking??
 
Bastian said:
I just don't think there's any defending those comments. It's stupid. What does it achieve? He's already hung him out to dry. Then he plays him tonight and makes this pisstake statement after. What is he thinking??
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If not for Young's injury. Martial would be the sub. Mourinho didn't really plan to play Shaw so he could come out with this.
 
ti vu said:
If not for Young's injury. Martial would be the sub. Mourinho didn't really plan to play Shaw so he could come out with this.
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I missed the game and only saw highlights so didn't know that. But still. I think the point was already made earlier in the week. Why expand on it?
 
Frank Grimes said:
Yes, saw it on Sky Sports News.
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Very odd stuff from Mourinho.

Firstly if Shaw is so lacking in football intelligence how was he playing in the Prem as a 19 year old defender. Secondly how's he going to learn if you don't give him minutes.
 
Dobbs said:
Very odd stuff from Mourinho.

Firstly if Shaw is so lacking in football intelligence how was he playing in the Prem as a 19 year old defender. Secondly how's he going to learn if you don't give him minutes.
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He said he wants to help him.

People need to actually listen to what's been said.

Alot of you guys could write for The Sun
 
ti vu said:
Take today as example. The press was thinking this was a good performance when Mourinho was not really happy & tried to set thing straight that Shaw didn't perform on his own and needed instructions feeding to him. If Mourinho diplomatically praised Shaw, the press would run with this false news. The next game Shaw doesn't start, they would jump on us. In reality Shaw had to improve himself & he may hear the false news & thinks that as what Mourinho really meant. When he privately got criticized he would be confused about Mourinho's intention.

There maybe a chance the private talk methods had been applied before to no effect.
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He could have just said "he's still young, he needs to work on his decision making and delivery" and then moved on. Instead he spent two minutes dressing him down and explained how he needed to be babysat.
 
TheReligion said:
He said he wants to help him.

People need to actually listen to what's been said.

Alot of you guys could write for The Sun
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Not a clue what you're on about. Never mind listening, I'd start with reading posts properly.

I'm sure he does want to help. I'm disagreeing with Mourinho's view of Shaw and pointing out its difficult to learn something if you don't get to practice it i.e. getting minutes on the pitch.
 
Dobbs said:
Not a clue what you're on about.

I'm disagreeing with Mourinho's view of Shaw and pointing out its difficult to learn something if you don't get to practice it i.e. getting minutes on the pitch.
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Why would you reward someone who is perhaps not training well or showing commitment ahead of Ashley Young or Daley Blind who are?

Jose has made it very clear he wants a committed set of players. He's not bothered about talent he wants effort, dedication and the drive to fight for the club.

Shaw has been questioned by several different managers now. This is not just coincidence. He needs to get a grip and step up. He's capable of great things, as Jose keeps saying, but the club can't keep waiting for him to get his shit together off the pitch.
 
On Shaw @1.50



Calling the player out but doesn't sound as bad as when read. Jose just making it clear on the one area he needs to improve, the only bad thing is he clearly feels like he can't rely on Shaw to deliver on his tactics which is not a good place to be under Jose.
 
TheReligion said:
Why would you reward someone who is perhaps not training well or showing commitment ahead of Ashley Young or Daley Blind who are?

Jose has made it very clear he wants a committed set of players. He's not bothered about talent he wants effort, dedication and the drive to fight for the club.

Shaw has been questioned by several different managers now. This is not just coincidence. He needs to get a grip and step up. He's capable of great things, as Jose keeps saying, but the club can't keep waiting for him to get his shit together off the pitch.
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Yeah ok. We disagree on how to get the best out of a player. You agree with Mourinho's method and I don't.

But don't turn that into me not listening to what Mourinho's said or writing for The Sun. No idea where that nonsense came from.
 
Mourinho is under pressure and his patience with the squad is getting thin.

He also pointed out Rashford hasn't scored since September...is that throwing him under the bus too!

When you play for United you need to perform, this applies to everyone in the squad, even more so when you are sitting in 5th/6th place.

Having criticised Shaw heavily this week Jose was never going to say...yeah everything is rosy with Luke now after a 10 minutes spell against Everton.
 
mu4c_20le said:
He could have just said "he's still young, he needs to work on his decision making and delivery" and then moved on. Instead he spent two minutes dressing him down and explained how he needed to be babysat.
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Are you sure it's only his decision making & delivery?

Mourinho was talking about football brain, understanding the game. It's not about picking wrong passing option, wrong technique; it can be that Shaw doesn't tactics, the team system...

Bastian said:
I missed the game and only saw highlights so didn't know that. But still. I think the point was already made earlier in the week. Why expand on it?
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Shaw was decent this game by the look of outsiders (we didn't know before Mourinho explained). However, the context was that Shaw didn't understand the game, and Mourinho had to feed him instructions. The press was ready to hype Shaw to heaven. And in case Shaw doesn't start next game (understandably in case Shaw doesn't understand game plan, carrying out tactical instructions); press would run with the misleading news. It creates a situation where Shaw was dropped for no reason (!) after performing well. Mourinho just sets the record straight.

If anything, it's to reach out for the fans who wants to understand the situation. Going with highlight, what the TV shows us, we didn't know what happened. We thought Shaw was doing decently. We would easily lured by the media stories than what actually happened.
 
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ti vu said:
Shaw was decent this game by the look of outsiders (we didn't know before Mourinho explained). However, the context was that Shaw didn't understand the game, and Mourinho had to feed him instructions. The press was ready to hype Shaw to heaven. And in case Shaw doesn't start next game (understandably in case Shaw doesn't understand game plan, carrying out tactical instructions); press would run with the misleading news. It creates a situation where Shaw was dropped for no reason (!) after performing well. Mourinho just sets the record straight.

If anything, it's to reach out for the fans who wants to understand the situation.
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Then those comments were reactionary to prevent positive spins on the Shaw story. Could have said a million other things less scathing and lacking in respect. Like...he's still got a long way to go, he's built like a player but he needs to think and act like a player too...so many ways he could have dealt with that better IMV. Poor.
 
Not the first time he's mentioned money and how it's made certain modern players complacent and something along those lines. Didn't Mourinho say how the young players nowadays were not "men" like Frank Lampard was when he first came to Chelsea?

Mourinho just doesn't like Shaw, I'm afraid.
 
NinjaZombie said:
Not the first time he's mentioned money and how it's made certain modern players complacent and something along those lines. Didn't Mourinho say how the young players nowadays were not "men" like Frank Lampard was when he first came to Chelsea?

Mourinho just doesn't like Shaw, I'm afraid.
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Lampard was 26 when Mourinho joined Chelsea :confused:
 
Bastian said:
Then those comments were reactionary to prevent positive spins on the Shaw story. Could have said a million other things less scathing and lacking in respect. Like...he's still got a long way to go, he's built like a player but he needs to think and act like a player too...so many ways he could have dealt with that better IMV. Poor.
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I can't say for you, but look at the performance thread. People were giving praise. Mourinho trying to be diplomatic then what? Shaw would think it was good performance despite he needed babysitting from the manager.

Like I said before, the private method may have been done before to no effect. Here Mourinho has to do his thing to set the record straight, let the fan know since he had a team to manage, not just one player he needs to accommodate. If Shaw not starting next game, we know the reason now. It's no longer " being dropped with no reason after decent/ good performance".

Edit: remember your own initial post. You didn't know Shaw sub was forced by Young's injury. You thought Mourinho just played him to criticize him when Shaw could have been unused sub. You then read early praise by other poster, headline about Shaw's shot save us a point... then further thought that Mourinho is unfair the next game when Shaw was on the bench. Do you rather trying to figure thing out yourself even if it can be off the mark leading by sensationalists journos, than hearing what actually happened?
 
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The issue you can't win with the Caf.

When he comes everyone moans he won't play young players - he does and they don't perform.

He then makes comments explaining where people need to improve and it's throwing them under the bus.

Rashford has been getting games along with Lingard despite not delivering at times. It seems they are both hugely committed and have the attitude Mourinho wants to see. Shaw and at times Martial have been in and out of the side and criticised - presumably as they are not showing the same levels of dedication. More so Shaw.

The question for the Caf is what do you do? Continue to play Shaw and not let his off field issues bother you? What example does that set to a squad you are trying to build?

Hes trying to change the club's culture and this is difficult. Some players need to buck up their ideas.
 
Shaw is least of our problems, he should be playing instead of average players like Darmian or Blind, if he wants to ship him out fine, find a replacement but I think he's just a little nbit incompetent wth some players, he will become world class elsewhere anyway
 
ti vu said:
I can't say for you, but look at the performance thread. People were giving praise. Mourinho trying to be diplomatic then what? Shaw would think it was good performance despite he needed babysitting from the manager.

Like I said before, the private method may have been done before to no effect. Here Mourinho has to do his thing to set the record straight, let the fan know since he had a team to manage, not just one player he needs to accommodate. If Shaw not starting next game, we know the reason now. It's no longer " being dropped with no reason after decent/ good performance".

Edit: remember your own initial post. You didn't know Shaw sub was forced by Young's injury. You thought Mourinho just played him to criticize him when Shaw could have been unused sub. You then read early praise by other poster, headline about Shaw's shot save us a point... then further thought that Mourinho is unfair the next game when Shaw was on the bench. Do you rather trying to figure thing out yourself even if it can be off the mark leading by sensationalists journos, than hearing what actually happened?
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I didn't think Jose played him just to slate him. That would be mental. I didn't see any praise nor think he had some miraculous performance. I simply thought what he said last time was quite enough and there is no need to slate him further or in that particular way. Like I said, he could have said so many things that would have been less disrespectful (even if what he said is true). So no, you made the assumptions about my assuming things. I get your point though and normally I defend Jose because I think he's doing most things right and he will turn things around. But these comments I just don't see as helpful at all.
 
TheReligion said:
When he comes everyone moans he won't play young players - he does and they don't perform.

He then makes comments explaining where people need to improve and it's throwing them under the bus.

Rashford has been getting games along with Lingard despite not delivering at times. It seems they are both hugely committed and have the attitude Mourinho wants to see. Shaw and at times Martial have been in and out of the side and criticised - presumably as they are not showing the same levels of dedication. More so Shaw.

The question for the Caf is what do you do? Continue to play Shaw and not let his off field issues bother you? What example does that set to a squad you are trying to build?

Hes trying to change the club's culture and this is difficult. Some players need to buck up their ideas.
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Well said.
The problem we have had in the last 3 years is players come here for a big pay day (or as a stop gap) and think that all they need to do is turn up for the 90 minutes (win, lose or draw...it doesnt matter), then pick up a pay cheque.
Jose is re-training our players that losing and drawing is not acceptable and if you think it is...then you will be criticized and if you still don't 'run through walls', you will be sold.
The likes of Fellaini, Young etc - though limited - are wiling to run through walls for Jose and the team, which is why he keeps picking the. He also picks Rashford, even though he isn't playing particularly well.

m1y2 said:
Shaw is least of our problems, he should be playing instead of average players like Darmian or Blind, if he wants to ship him out fine, find a replacement but I think he's just a little nbit incompetent wth some players, he will become world class elsewhere anyway
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What gives you this idea?
Shaw has been at the club coming on for 3 seasons and has 8 good games. World class players age 20-21 don't have "nothing" seasons. Every season is usually a great season and there is progression.
There is belief in some that Shaw is the best LB in the World. He isn't. He is an average player who did well at Southampton, but since arriving at a big club, has been unable to handle the pressure which comes with playing at a big club.
Martial (though poor this season), did well last season, which proves that he is able to handle the pressure of playing in a big club, big crowds, etc. For me, Shaw will need to have at least 2 successive stellar seasons at a big club, for me to consider him potentially World class.
 
Great move by Mou. Criticize the player and then bring him on to show everyone what he was talking about. He's nowhere near to be match fit. I will take Mourinho's word that maybe he's not training hard enough.
 
I don't think Shaw played badly. Didn't his shot salvage us a point?

I genuinely don't see what all the fuss is about.

Mourinho must be one of the most analysed men in England.
 
Bastian said:
I didn't think Jose played him just to slate him. That would be mental. I didn't see any praise nor think he had some miraculous performance. I simply thought what he said last time was quite enough and there is no need to slate him further or in that particular way. Like I said, he could have said so many things that would have been less disrespectful (even if what he said is true). So no, you made the assumptions about my assuming things. I get your point though and normally I defend Jose because I think he's doing most things right and he will turn things around. But these comments I just don't see as helpful at all.
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I meant hypothetically. For some reason, the word was left out in my third sentence. I meant if you or other poster didn't know, and just see the performance (which is decent), a diplomatic generic interview answer, then the next game Shaw doesn't start, there would be outrage. This is not uncommon where you have many threads & posts talking about players mysteriously left out the next game.

As I said, everyone have their take on the situation. You may see it as unnecessary. I think it's Okay as Mourinho just make thing clear so he can focus on other stuff than having to accommodate Shaw.
 
I've been all for Jose being blunt with these modern day fanny's, too many of them lack the mentality to play for United, but the invasion of the bodysnatchers Shaw comments were odd.
 
Whether Shaw is good enough is besides the point. Mourinho had it in for him since day one and I don't think he has man managed Shaw effectively.

I guarantee someone like Fergie would have got the best out of him and would have ensured he did the best he could for the lad even if he wasn't performing and had to part ways. I think Joses handling of him has been disgraceful in all honesty and I think most young players would find it extremely difficult to motivate themselves or play their best football under such scrutiny and hostile conditions.

I also think had we persisted with Shaw and let him play his way back into form, we might have lost some games but eventually we could have had a decent outlet down the left and Valencia wouldn't be over burdened but instead this vendetta has been allowed to take priority over the interests of Manchester United football club.

Fat Luke on one leg is still a better player than Darmian.

He's leaving this summer and I think it's best for both parties. I hope Jose gets in someone he wants so that's this sorry saga can come to an end because end of the day it is the team that is suffering and results are being impacted.
 
To me it seems like Jose starts to panic. If we do not win Europa League we will look at another failed season.

In my books he is singleing out the players who are the ones with the biggest potential.
Shaw, Martial and Mkhi have much more talent than Fellaini, Young or Lingard will ever have.
However, it seems they show the right attitude so it is somehow understandable from his point of view but this won't bring us back where we believe we belong.
 
Good for Luke. Did ok when he came on. Just shows Mourinho to be an utter moron with his comments. One day he is way behind the others, the next day he plays.
 
Phil Jones 79 said:
Good for Luke. Did ok when he came on. Just shows Mourinho to be an utter moron with his comments. One day he is way behind the others, the next day he plays.
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He wasn't going to, Martial was going to come on but then the injury to Young.
 
The point with Shaw is not what he did yesterday, but he did wrong since the beginning of the season and what he does at training.

Like it was said before, Mourinho's patience is getting thin now, and he starts being very nervous, and you can see it on the pitch.

The injuries, the displays, the fixtures... It's getting on Mou's mind and I'm sure that he's trying to search for an excuse outside his own management.

I'm sorry but it's not Shaw's fault that we were not winning a single game in October/November.

It's more down Zlatan missed chances, Roo's poor form, Martial and Rashford being poor this season etc.

I think that Mou is right about Shaw and wanting more from his players, but he shouldn't focus on a kid to prove his poor management this season
 
Cnaiür urs Skiötha said:
To me it seems like Jose starts to panic. If we do not win Europa League we will look at another failed season.

In my books he is singleing out the players who are the ones with the biggest potential.
Shaw, Martial and Mkhi have much more talent than Fellaini, Young or Lingard will ever have.
However, it seems they show the right attitude so it is somehow understandable from his point of view but this won't bring us back where we believe we belong.
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The problem is he wanted them to play in a different way and quite frankly I am yet to understand his style of football. Right now its safe to say he is relying on individual brilliance or some crosses head in by Ibra. There is no movement , players doesnt really understand their position and even though we are playing 4-5-1 we dont have any creativity from the wing.

The players we have is no way suited for a 4-2-3-1 but they are suited for 4-3-3 especially Martial and Mickhi . Both of them are not wingers for me , they can play as wide forwards but not as wingers . Whatever happends we wont get much creativity from those two if we continue on this style.

Secondly it was very noticeable in yesterdays game that no one is moving to Attacking Mid position,always to the wing praying that somehow we can put in a cross. He is not playing to the teams strength/not able to play them according to team strength ,rather he is trying to play the team his way . In a way that is similar to LVG.

Cafe is unanimously on bashing players and everyday the list of players we need is growing ( minimum 6 players ). He can spend what he wants but he has to earn it, he bought pogba for a world record fee but still unable to get the best out of him . Keep in mind that the point tally is 54 - Jose Mourinho has collected 54 points in his first 29 PL games as Man Utd manager, two fewer than Louis van Gaal (56). To many people here our playing style has increased dramatically which i am failing to see . We are still way predictable,no movement, cannot move the ball quickly enough and no urgency which were kinda the same issues we had under LVG.

Note : I want Jose to succeed. When he joined us I was happy because I believed that we will getting the best version of Jose , someone who have learned form him mistakes and ready to change himself. As of now I am very wrong . His man management is really poor,no proper way of playing football,no proper tactics and seems he cannot motivate himself and his own players. Cannot see him changing anytime soon and quite frankly I am a bit worried now . If Jose didn't make champions league with that squad , whoever he bought he is not going to win EPL anytime soon according to my opinion.
 
Phil Jones 79 said:
Ah right. Some from being a long way behind other players to having a kiss and a cuddle and everything is ok again.
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As was mentioned, his original intention wasn't to play him but a talk is more than enough for someone to be on the bench. Who knows what could have been spoken about in there.

Christ you're clutching at straws, just say you don't like Jose, you don't have to try and undermine everything he does. It's okay, you don't have to like him. No reason to try and justify your hatred
 
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