Mourinho: "Luke Shaw a long way behind" | Shaw: "I will fight to the last second"

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Freedom Aluteni said:
So after all that stuff about Jose treating Schweini unfairly about what 3 days ago, he comes up with this? Clearly Shaw has done or said something to upset Jose, he's looked fine when he's played.
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Yes. He has trained badly.

I'm really not sure why there always has to be a hidden agenda. Jose has come out quite publicly and criticised the lad for his attitude and dedication to training. Why does there have to be something else?

It's not like it's the first time we've heard questions surrounding Shaw's attitude.
 
Randall Flagg said:
Relax buddy

You didn't discount anything. Martial played ok earlier in the season then began getting left out over and over again. Then we had the rumours in the press. He got back in and had a couple of ok performances. No better or worse than earlier in the season and now he is well under par.

I don't agree the managers handling of martial has been good at all
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Martial wasn't good enough toward the end of last season, was shite at the Euros and was average at best at the beginning of the season. Jose kept him out of the team and made him work to get back in, rightly so, yet was ridiculed by nearly everyone on here about alienating such a poor soul, only for him to come back into the fold and put in his best performances of the season. I remember this because the kneejerk nonsense about "Martial is back :drool:" was all over the forum. I'd know because I was getting involved in it. It was a little after his two goals against West Ham, can't remember the teams exactly. He then started playing whenever fit and started getting comfortable and turning into shite again.

It's no coincidence his best performances for us this season came when he was being treated so "terribly". Not all players respond to having their hand held, Martial doesn't exactly look the soft and cuddly type anyway

Also, sorry if I came across as aggressive pal, just woke up
 
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We have Young, Blind and Darmian there and only Shaw looks like a natural LB. Selling him could be quite problematic in a long run as the summer shopping list would extend if we're aiming to provide reasonable support for the wings.

I just hope it's nothing associated with his infamous injury and after-effects because in that case nobody can do one thing about it.

To be honest Jose's so cryptic sometimes even Rui Faria looks confused on the touchline. Maybe it's just a way of protecting his player like he did with Mkhi or perhaps we're just trying read too much into it.
 
Randall Flagg said:
I have no idea

Martial was also on his shit list not long ago. And I still don't see any improvements in his performances

But he seems to have had fallings out or problems with many players since the start of the season, Bastian, smalling, shaw, martial, carrick and miki

I'm not sure he is overly stable mentally these days
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Being on his shit list and being completely cut off from the first team is different imo. I think Mou has faith in Martial and Rashford but has given up on Shaw

Not going to talk about his mental health as I think thats really stupid and I know you have a huge dislike of Mourinho. Didn't you make jokes about Ibra's plane crashing for his medical last summer?Sorry if I have mistaken you for another poster
 
Van Piorsing said:
We have Young, Blind and Darmian there and only Shaw looks like a natural LB. Selling him could be quite problematic in a long run as the summer shopping list would extend if we're aiming to provide reasonable support for the wings.

I just hope it's nothing associated with his infamous injury and after-effects because in that case nobody can do one thing about it.

To be honest Jose's so cryptic sometimes even Rui Faria looks confused on the touchline. Maybe it's just a way of protecting his player like he did with Mkhi or perhaps we're just trying read too much into it.
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These comments aren't exactly protective. We're at the business end of the season now and Mourinho is likely not going to do that much rotation. He's given up on Shaw and all things indicate he'll be gone in the summer.
 
Zoo said:
To be fair he was first to report the Mata injury and has been getting snippets of team info this season.
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Don't think a person that gets info would comment like that on Twitter, practically revealing his sources.
 
Two different managers now have questioned his mentality, with LVG basically calling him a fat ass. Maybe he just doesn't want to be here? He is a Chelsea fan, isn't he?
 
Damien said:
These comments aren't exactly protective. We're at the business end of the season now and Mourinho is likely not going to do that much rotation. He's given up on Shaw and all things indicate he'll be gone in the summer.
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This is getting interesting, especially with the fact that we were not linked to that many left backs in recent times.
 
Randall Flagg said:
I have no idea

Martial was also on his shit list not long ago. And I still don't see any improvements in his performances

But he seems to have had fallings out or problems with many players since the start of the season, Bastian, smalling, shaw, martial, carrick and miki

I'm not sure he is overly stable mentally these days
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Your agenda against Jose is Ridiculous. Tell me a manager who hasn't had problems with players this season. Sanchez has had problems with Wenger. Pep has had issues with Toure and Aguero. Conte had problems with Costa.

So not picking players these days means falling out. He can only pick 11 players.

Shaw has done nothing to justify the praise he gets on here. Apparently two great games against Brugge make you world class. Depay looked like Messi in those games.

It's clear he's been training poorly. Then his stupid brother tweeting stupid shit. But yeah let's blame Jose.
 
I think Shaw has been disappointing but Jesus Christ this is Brendan Rodgers level of poor man management.

I suppose the signs were there with the treatment of BFS and Miki.
 
Attila said:
Being on his shit list and being completely cut off from the first team is different imo. I think Mou has faith in Martial and Rashford but has given up on Shaw

Not going to talk about his mental health as I think thats really stupid and I know you have a huge dislike of Mourinho. Didn't you make jokes about Ibra's plane crashing for his medical last summer?Sorry if I have mistaken you for another poster
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Nah he made a very distasteful joke about Jose last season. I can't remember what it was but it was definitely Randall. As he's had agenda against Jose from the start.
 
Attila said:
Why do you think Mourinho has it in for Shaw? Martial, Bailly and Rashford are getting chances
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I dont think he does at all; remember he tried to sign Shaw to Chelsea, and only refused because he didn't want to pay the inflated price we paid.

Mourinho concern about the way 'he trains, the way he commits, the focus, the ambition' is about Shaw's current mental state and infer's he probably still is probably not fully committed in training and lacks full commitment in tackle. Its not necessarily that Shaw is lazy or unprofessional, but that he lacks conviction because mental trauma is stopping him from giving his all, which places him behind Young, Blind and Darmian.

I'm sure the club is employing the best sports psychologists but sometimes, it can take years to overcome such mental trauma. I nearly drowned in the sea years ago, and have never been back in since, despite some psychology and living over a beach for a few years. I just don't ever want to go back in.

I don't think Mourinho has any agenda against Shaw: he is simply reacting to a situation he inherited. Thats my read on the situation.
 
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Bojan11 said:
Nah he made a very distasteful joke about Jose last season. I can't remember what it was but it was definitely Randall. As he's had agenda against Jose from the start.
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Yes quite a few posters here hate Mourinho and have an agenda to post about. @Wumminator for example
 
sammsky1 said:
I dont think he does at all; remember he tried to sign Shaw to Chelsea, and only refused because he didn't want to pay the inflated price we paid.

Mourinho concern about the way 'he trains, the way he commits, the focus, the ambition' is about Shaw's current mental state and infer Shaw probably still is probably not fully committed in training and lacks full commitment in tackle. Its not necessarily that Shaw is lazy or unprofessional, but that he lacks conviction because he still has mental trauma stopping him from giving his all. And its that mental doubt that is giving the likes of Young, Blind and Darmian the edge.

I'm sure the club is employing the best sports psychologists but sometimes, it can take years to overcome such mental trauma. I nearly drowned in the sea years ago, and have never been back in since, despite some psychology and living over a beach for a few years. I just don't ever want to go back in.

I don't think Mourinho has any agenda against Shaw: he is simply reacting to a situation he inherited. Thats my read on the situation.
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Yeah I agree with you, my comment was sarcastic
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Mourinho hasn't had a single good thing to say about a young player. He'll do what he does and go out and buy a bunch of 28 year olds who are ready for him. This whole charade is a prelude to that. I don't particularly think Shaw is dogging it or half assed about his United career.

Developing youth has never been his forte. He doesn't reach them and can't relate to them psychologically. He's good at setting a team out defensively and getting the best attacking players, hoping they'll figure it out.

He's not cut out to patiently teach the game to kids like Shaw, Rashford or Martial like Fergie or Wenger do.
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Let's not pretend Jose is the first manager to question Shaw, LVG said he was overweight and unfit when he arrived which had him on the bench for most of his first season. Mourinho has seen the same attitude and you can hardly say he's not prepared to train young players when he tried to sign Shaw while he was Chelsea manager and worked very well with other young defenders like Varane in the past.
 
My worry is that we move the likes of Martial and Shaw on for short term success and face another rebuilding job if Mourinho leaves in 2 or 3 years.

You can sort of predict players that managers don't fancy and Shaw is definitely one.
 
I don't see the point in righteous indignation over this, I had hoped Shaw would make it here but whatever the reason is that doesn't look likely from those comments.
 
Not surprised by this. Always looked like a lazy fat fecker to me.
 
Minimalist said:
I think Shaw has been disappointing but Jesus Christ this is Brendan Rodgers level of poor man management.

I suppose the signs were there with the treatment of BFS and Miki.
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It really is. I know he is out manager but this is José we are talking about. Everything the man says is considered as gold in this place. Personally, I take everything he says with a pinch of salt. As far as man management goes, I can't take him seriously.

Didn't he also say that neither Pogba nor Herrera could have played as well as Carrick and Fellaini on Saturday.

He can sell him if he wants if the kid isn't doing what HE wants but I'm sure he will be handled better by another manager.
 
Attila said:
Yes Mourinho is just lying about Shaws training level. Wonder how the rest of the squad will respond to this big lie
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:lol: Should have read your other posts and would have seen your sarcasm in the other post!

The agenda of some against Mourinho gets quite tiresome, especially when its based on conspiracy or subjective opinion.

I agree with you: this has nothing to do with 'Mourinho and youth'. Mourinho simply saying it as he see's it.
 
Our transfer policy of the post Fergie era has been a shambles.

Before, we'd be getting players who were, even if they were not of the highest technical quality, were mentally tough and/or model professionals who'd understand the privilege of playing for Manchester United.

Now we're getting flakey, soft or self interested players who are too happy to be coasting through their time at the club.

I say we get rid of Shaw, or anyone who's mentally weak or disinterested.

If there's one thing I'd trust Mourinho on, it's his requirement for his players to be of a certain mental fortitude and his ability to recognise it.
 
dichinero said:
It really is. I know he is out manager but this is José we are talking about. Everything the man says is considered as gold in this place. Personally, I take everything he says with a pinch of salt. As far as man management goes, I can't take him seriously.

Didn't he also say that neither Pogba nor Herrera could have played as well as Carrick and Fellaini on Saturday.

He can sell him if he wants if the kid isn't doing what HE wants but I'm sure he will be handled better by another manager.
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Can you tell me which manager would handle this situation better and how? I'd love to know.
 
dichinero said:
It really is. I know he is out manager but this is José we are talking about. Everything the man says is considered as gold in this place. Personally, I take everything he says with a pinch of salt. As far as man management goes, I can't take him seriously.

Didn't he also say that neither Pogba nor Herrera could have played as well as Carrick and Fellaini on Saturday.

He can sell him if he wants if the kid isn't doing what HE wants but I'm sure he will be handled better by another manager.
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Mourinho has won countless trophies as a manager but this guy cant take him seriously :lol:
 
I think jose needs to do this stuff behind closed doors. Its becoming a regular thing & it doesnt paint a particularly great picture of Jose either. He practically blamed shaw for the watford defeat early doors . Hardly the way to welcome a player back into the fold after a career threatening injury . This has all escalated from that point & tbh it looks like jose is bullying the soft targets.
Is it really that surprising that shaw isnt responding to it ?
 
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Wow, I just saw his latest meltdown about Luke, will be all over the papers tomorrow. If he's trying to pin the blame on a young lad who's barely played in the last 2 seasons then he's bang out of order. Saying his commitment in training is a long way behind is almost an attempt to force the player out if the club.

How he can question Luke's commitment when you watch the incident in which he suffered that double leg break? If anything his commitment is what got him injured. I know José was a useless player himself so maybe he lacks any understanding of how long it can take to recover from one of the lost serious injuries you can suffer as a professional footballer. Can you imagine being called out in public like this by your manager after the pain and suffering of rehabbing a possible career threatening injury.

I've a few theories on José's behavior myself, as he's gotten older and more battle weary this great relationship he builds with his players has declined immensely. In his 1st spell with Chelsea the players looked like they'd run through walls for him, at Inter we've all seen the video of Materazzi in tears as José left. At Madrid he seemed to lose something, he fell out with just about everyone, he lost the support of Casillas, Ramos and other leaders in the squad and never recovered. I think he wasn't the same man returning to these shores. Players like Terry who loved the man seemed to stop playing for him, and it spread to the rest of the squad, ultimately leading to the only solution to this rebellion being to get rid of the problem in José. I think he needs to be careful with our squad, using the press like this is kind of cowardly and other players won't like it, knowing they could be next after he's targeted Bastian and now Luke.

There's a train of thought that José's ego is so out of control that he holds a grudge against Luke for rejecting his advances when he chose us over Chelsea. Mourinho made sure to point out that we had offered Shaw "crazy" money, possibly as a defensive mechanism to protect his own ego?
 
Read on Soccernet that Shaw was doing additional training at home. That does not sound like someone who is not dedicated.
 
ManUchosenbosslvg said:
Wow, I just saw his latest meltdown about Luke, will be all over the papers tomorrow. If he's trying to pin the blame on a young lad who's barely played in the last 2 seasons then he's bang out of order. Saying his commitment in training is a long way behind is almost an attempt to force the player out if the club.

How he can question Luke's commitment when you watch the incident in which he suffered that double leg break? If anything his commitment is what got him injured. I know José was a useless player himself so maybe he lacks any understanding of how long it can take to recover from one of the lost serious injuries you can suffer as a professional footballer. Can you imagine being called out in public like this by your manager after the pain and suffering of rehabbing a possible career threatening injury.

I've a few theories on José's behavior myself, as he's gotten older and more battle weary this great relationship he builds with his players has declined immensely. In his 1st spell with Chelsea the players looked like they'd run through walls for him, at Inter we've all seen the video of Materazzi in tears as José left. At Madrid he seemed to lose something, he fell out with just about everyone, he lost the support of Casillas, Ramos and other leaders in the squad and never recovered. I think he wasn't the same man returning to these shores. Players like Terry who loved the man seemed to stop playing for him, and it spread to the rest of the squad, ultimately leading to the only solution to this rebellion being to get rid of the problem in José. I think he needs to be careful with our squad, using the press like this is kind of cowardly and other players won't like it, knowing they could be next after he's targeted Bastian and now Luke.

There's a train of thought that José's ego is so out of control that he holds a grudge against Luke for rejecting his advances when he chose us over Chelsea. Mourinho made sure to point out that we had offered Shaw "crazy" money, possibly as a defensive mechanism to protect his own ego?
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I've read some great conspiracy theories on this forum in my time but this is one for the ages. So he was upset that he signed for United, then went into the season aware he'd have a grudge against him, so to get back at him he'd let Shaw do nothing and steal money from the club he was managing? What a way to get back at Shaw.

Also, your whole post makes no sense as his commitment off the pitch is being questioned, not his commitment on the pitch. Has he lost his influence? Maybe, but he won the league 2 years ago, very convincingly too. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

Also, is it not interesting to you that Shaw's commitment was questioned by the prior manager too, before he had his leg break?
 
Attila said:
Mourinho has won countless trophies as a manager but this guy cant take him seriously :lol:
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"as far as man management goes"

Over the years, Mourinho's approach to man management has changed. In his first Chelsea spell, he constantly defended players and with bad results he blamed the referee or other means. Towards the end of his second spell, Chelsea players turned against him with him blaming them for losses. This tough love approach will be marmite. Some will like it, and some - like dichinero and frank lee madeer.. - won't. Same applies for players. Some will be fine with it, while others won't.
 
Attila said:
It's just really funny how you talk about him as pinch of salt while he racks up trophy wins, keep it up :lol:
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It's this supposed to make any sense or just another opportunity to play with emojis?
 
Damien said:
"as far as man management goes"

Over the years, Mourinho's approach to man management has changed. In his first Chelsea spell, he constantly defended players and with bad results he blamed the referee or other means. Towards the end of his second spell, Chelsea players turned against him with him blaming them for losses. This tough love approach will be marmite. Some will like it, and some - like dichinero and frank lee madeer.. - won't. Same applies for players. Some will be fine with it, while others won't.
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TBF, he has tried the other approach, up until a few weeks ago he was shouting conspiracy and making it an us vs them mentality, saying the results were down to luck etc. That didn't seem to do anything though, as nothing changed.
 
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