Mourinho bringing on Fellaini to defend a lead

[Moby]

If Fellaini plays for United again, we riot.

 

[iKeano]

Will become like the LVG where he gets cheered when he's subbed off, or needs to be booed when he's subbed on.
If José too stubborn to realise Fellaini is nothing more than a tall person, the fans will have to let him know he's not wanted at OT.
I've never wished injury on a Utd's player in the past, but if Fellainis career ended in a "tall mans afro gets caught in low-flying flock of gulls" debacle, I would be genuinely relieved.
For José to describe him as Pogbas 'natural replacement' is terrifying.
I abhor the lad, totally and utterly detest him to Suarez levels. Makes me sick seeing him with the Utd shirt on.

 

[CM]

The bigger issue here is how we basically stopped attacking after 60 minutes and dropped progressively deeper as the game went on. The game was there for the taking and instead of putting Mata on to continue our momentum, Mourinho decides he's content with a one goal lead and shut up shop.

Our defence has never looked comfortable in these types of situations where we have to absorb pressure and inevitability ends up with de Gea having to bail us out in some way. It's a ridiculous tactic.

 

[Chaky_Best]

I don't really understand of all this.

Yes Fellaini has been poor when he came in yesterday. Missed his first control, first pass, and even second pass.

The truth is that Pogba and Herrera has been poor since the 60th minute that we had to bring another midfielder to replace one of them. But the turning point was probably when Ener Valencia came in and Everton started to cross a lot.

I blame Fellaini because he couldn't match the tempo of the game when he came in, BUT, I blame Mourinho because of his negative substitutions.

He should have subbed Pogba that fadded too much, he should have played Young on the right wing to counter Baines's crosses, and should have played Lingard at the end to protect Darmian vs Deulofeu.

By playing Fellaini central and a tired Herrera on the right, he killed the little balance we had.

 

[Jaybomb]

What irritates me the most is that every time we have a chance to capitalise on our rivals messing up, we bottle it. City and Liverpool dropped points (and both seemingly have wider problems to address), and we play Spurs on Sunday. Three points was a must. Under normal circumstances, a draw would have been a decent result, but not when we've had the start that we've had.

It's going to be a very frustrating league campaign, I just hope we can do something in the cups (EL, especially).

We'll probably beat Spurs. Thats the killing part.

The league is won by winning the easy games.

 

[Jaybomb]

I don't really understand of all this.

Yes Fellaini has been poor when he came in yesterday. Missed his first control, first pass, and even second pass.

The truth is that Pogba and Herrera has been poor since the 60th minute that we had to bring another midfielder to replace one of them. But the turning point was probably when Ener Valencia came in and Everton started to cross a lot.

I blame Fellaini because he couldn't match the tempo of the game when he came in, BUT, I blame Mourinho because of his negative substitutions.

He should have subbed Pogba that fadded too much, he should have played Young on the right wing to counter Baines's crosses, and should have played Lingard at the end to protect Darmian vs Deulofeu.

By playing Fellaini central and a tired Herrera on the right, he killed the little balance we had.

With the players we have, we shouldn't be protecting a 1-0 lead. We should be scoring 3 or 4 goals a game. We've it 4 times this season in fairness, but we need to be doing it in the league. I was so pumped after the Leicester win but we ended up dropping points against Burnley and Stoke.

Ibra is scoring but he needs to score more than one goal a game with his reputation. Especially when we can't win with that one goal. He's the focal point of our attack, everything goes through him. Whether it's build up, hold up, the assist or the actual goal.

 

[ryansgirl]

Not really a bad decision. The bad decision was sitting back to defend the lead. If we're going to do that then usually Fellaini is a very good player to have on the pitch, but he fecked up this time. Mourinho can't really be held responsible for Fellaini's feck up, but he is responsible for the strategy. We should never have sat back like we did.

Yes. Mourinho shouldn't have been so negative and should have brought on Mata to poach another goal. Having the United players hanging around Everton's attacking area was never going to ensure another goal for United.

There's a reason Mourinho had a pre-United reputation as promoting fairly boring football.

 

[ryansgirl]

Will become like the LVG where he gets cheered when he's subbed off, or needs to be booed when he's subbed on.
If José too stubborn to realise Fellaini is nothing more than a tall person, the fans will have to let him know he's not wanted at OT.
I've never wished injury on a Utd's player in the past, but if Fellainis career ended in a "tall mans afro gets caught in low-flying flock of gulls" debacle, I would be genuinely relieved.
For José to describe him as Pogbas 'natural replacement' is terrifying.
I abhor the lad, totally and utterly detest him to Suarez levels. Makes me sick seeing him with the Utd shirt on.

A bit harsh isn't that? Comparing Fellaini with Suarez?

 

[RedDevil@84]

With the players we have, we shouldn't be protecting a 1-0 lead. We should be scoring 3 or 4 goals a game. We've it 4 times this season in fairness, but we need to be doing it in the league. I was so pumped after the Leicester win but we ended up dropping points against Burnley and Stoke.

Ibra is scoring but he needs to score more than one goal a game with his reputation. Especially when we can't win with that one goal. He's the focal point of our attack, everything goes through him. Whether it's build up, hold up, the assist or the actual goal.

I think that's a tad ridiculous to expect our striker to score 2 a goal in every game. Rashford, Martial, Mata, Miki, Pogba, Rooney.. At any given point of time we have atleast 2-3 of them on field. They can and should score the other goal in every match.

 

[MILLHILLMANC]

Fellaini should never play for Utd again...he says again and again for the last two years. Moyes was trolling us and LVG and Jose are now just taking the piss.

Worse buy since Gary Birtles people

 

[Raw]

Not sure if this is a joke?

If it isnt, then it says off the games fellaini hasnt played, we've won 61% and in the games he played, we won 34%. These two are independent and do not have to sum to 100%

Christ, I'm not very smart am I

 

[Sunny Jim]

This has finished his United career, so there's a silver lining there.

you recon? I hate this comparison but he is like turd that won't flush. I hoped Van Gall the Idiot would get rid off him but no.... so I don't believe he's gone.

 

[CG1010]

So much hatred and vitriol against Fellaini in this thread, that you would think he purposefully ended somebody's career today. Yes, he committed a mistake today (although I am still not sure if that was a penalty). But it isn't his fault how the manager chooses to use him.
Anyway, the solution to our conundrum is not "No Fellaini". But it is to have defenders whom can be trusted with the physical, long-passes and crosses of the PL teams so that we cannot have to bring in reinforcements every time this happens. As pointed out above, we have lost goals late even when Fellaini was not on the pitch.

 

[MILLHILLMANC]

So much hatred and vitriol against Fellaini in this thread, that you would think he purposefully ended somebody's career today. Yes, he committed a mistake today (although I am still not sure if that was a penalty). But it isn't his fault how the manager chooses to use him.
Anyway, the solution to our conundrum is not "No Fellaini". But it is to have defenders whom can be trusted with the physical, long-passes and crosses of the PL teams so that we cannot have to bring in reinforcements every time this happens. As pointed out above, we have lost goals late even when Fellaini was not on the pitch.

Point is that he should never have been in a Utd shirt in the first place. Terrible panic buy by a clueless out of his depth manager. For me he epitomises the Woodward reign and the Utd decline.

 

[podurban2]

One of the worst decision you will ever see. Fellaini can't defend for a second, just baffling by Mourinho. Shameful.

 

[CG1010]

Point is that he should never have been in a Utd shirt in the first place. Terrible panic buy by a clueless out of his depth manager. For me he epitomises the Woodward reign and the Utd decline.

He's had his uses and good runs when he has been played further up at #10 or #8 with two more midfielders. Whether or not he should have been bought depends on whom Moyes could have landed at that time. There were several better options for sure.

Why don't fans hate Schneiderlin or wish for his career to end, even when he has shown less than Fellaini.

 

[Escobar]

I agree, Mourinho is to blame as he was too negative but to bring on Fellaini hardly ever works because he's just not good enough. He's been costing us not for the first time

 

[B20]

Ibra is scoring but he needs to score more than one goal a game with his reputation.

Lolwut.

Give your head a wobble, ffs.

 

[yandao]

I actually think that it is logically sound to bring on Fellaini and Rashford at the expense of Mikhi and Martial.

At the 60+ minute mark, we were clearly tiring and there was no one breaking forward into space after we regained possession (re there was a move where Ibra played a forward pass expecting Mikhi to overlap but Mikhi stayed behind the ball expecting a pass back, seems to me like a clear sign of fatigue) - This allowed Everton to press high in numbers and narrowing the space in which we have to play the ball in our half.

Ideally, we should have at least one or two players breaking forward once we regained possession. This would: (i) force their Everton counterparts (e.g. Barry et al) to track their runs and vacate our half, thus allowing us more space to play the ball in our half; or (ii) give the ball carrier the option of a forward pass into space behind the Everton line - since our players would be running from deep, a high Everton line would find it difficult to "turn and chase" from a static start, so even if the forward pass don't reach our forward players, the idea is to have the Everton line think twice about pushing too high. The consequence of this is that we would have more space to play the ball behind if need be (realistically, we don't have the pin-point passing accuracy and the insane ball control of Barca to keep the ball in tight spaces comfortably) and keep Everton on their toes when pushing up.

However, this would be very demanding on these off the ball runners so it is logical that we bring on fresh legs to do the runs. Martial wasn't giving Coleman second thoughts about pushing forward so Rashford for Martial is a logical choice. I think it's fine that Ibra stayed as he is better able to hold the ball, but this had to be premised on the fact that we have runners overlapping him to give him and the team an out ball forward. I'm not sure what happened to Rashford though, he ended up dropping deep like Martial and not making the forward runs and I attribute the fault to three parties, Rashford, for not "leading" the run, the senior players like Carrick / Ibra for not telling him where to run and our touchline, for not screaming at him to break.

Largely the same logic for Fellaini, but only more criminal. He may not be the fastest runner, but he's surely able to break forward for the last 5 minutes, giving our better ball players time to play the ball or at least catch a breather. Also, given that we have to defend more crosses from deep and the possibility of conceding set-pieces at the latter stages, seems perfectly logical to bring on our tallest player to deal with Everton's physical threat. As for the goal, other than the stupid gesture of stick his leg out in the penalty area, I thought he made 3 mistakes leading up to the goal - his first mistake was staying behind the ball, allowing his "man" Gueye to station himself closer to our box (instead of dropping deeper to track Fellaini's forward runs) and when Gueye received the ball higher up, Fellaini's second mistake was to allow too much space between himself and Gueye and thereby allowing him to bring the ball into the box (too "zonal" given the limited space and as the coaches used to say, "take them outside the box!") and of course the 3rd stupid mistake, sticking his leg out at a lazy attempt to win the ball instead of tracking his man and closing the angles, absolutely no excuse given that Fellaini's fresh of the bench.

 

[Giant Midget]

With the players we have, we shouldn't be protecting a 1-0 lead. We should be scoring 3 or 4 goals a game. We've it 4 times this season in fairness, but we need to be doing it in the league. I was so pumped after the Leicester win but we ended up dropping points against Burnley and Stoke.

Ibra is scoring but he needs to score more than one goal a game with his reputation. Especially when we can't win with that one goal. He's the focal point of our attack, everything goes through him. Whether it's build up, hold up, the assist or the actual goal.

So you want him to score around 50 goals just in the league?

The Premier League is too strong to score 3-4 goals every week. Yes, the top teams aren't brilliant, but the mid-table teams have gotten a lot, lot stronger than they were a few years ago

 

[MILLHILLMANC]

He's had his uses and good runs when he has been played further up at #10 or #8 with two more midfielders. Whether or not he should have been bought depends on whom Moyes could have landed at that time. There were several better options for sure.

Why don't fans hate Schneiderlin or wish for his career to end, even when he has shown less than Fellaini.

Schneiderlin was sensational for Southampton in central midfield. His confidence is shot at united but the potential is there. Fellaini was used as a no 10 playing long balls by Everton..yes we bought this..and tried to turn him into a midfielder..appalling

 

[GE]

Negativity breads negativity. Every time we try to defend our lead late in a game and forget football is actually about scoring goals - we concede.

Mourinho can piss off with his outdated style of play. There's a damn reason why he almost got Chelsea relegated and why we can't win games convincingly.

Why not throw everything at a team and press for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th? why are we not relentlessly squashing average teams in shit form like Everton, West Ham, Burnley?

I'm sick to death of seeing us go one up and then lose our intensity only to invite pressure which leads to the inevitable.

The 5 teams above us in the table are the exact opposite of what I have stated above.

If we don't change our style and mentality we will not enter the top 5 for the remainder of the season, we will only slide downwards.

 

[BigBebe]

Leon Osman's comments on Sky Sports made the idea that you would ever bring Fellaini on to defend a league look utterly ridiculous.

 

[B20]

Leon Osman's comments on Sky Sports made the idea that you would ever bring Fellaini on to defend a league look utterly ridiculous.

In fairness, that was Moyes mistake. Not Mourinho's.

 

[dogwithabone]

Except we were dealing with the long balls fine all game. Everton launched a lot of long balls today. And Fellaini is good for a foul at least, we just need to find another way to deal with long balls without him. And when was the last time you thought 'Fellainis heading really saved us today!'

The rest of the game wasnt like those last 20 minutes though. I'm not suggesting Fellaini is or ever has been a saviour but he is one of those who can just get in the way, get a foot in, break up the flow and disrupt things. Everton were pushing us back and it seemed we had made our made up to hold on to what we had and in that case Fellaini for Micky looked a decent call.

I don't know what Osman was on about that they didn't used to want him anywhere near their own box, he used to be the best central defender they had in dealing with opposition set pieces. His clumsiness has cost us but he's like Crouch in that when you're all arms and legs opponents just fall over when they feel a touch. The amount of fouls Crouch concedes is ridiculous and I do think Fellaini gets pulled up for a lot of soft fouls.

All said and done though I'd sell him in January.

 

[Jaybomb]

So you want him to score around 50 goals just in the league?

The Premier League is too strong to score 3-4 goals every week. Yes, the top teams aren't brilliant, but the mid-table teams have gotten a lot, lot stronger than they were a few years ago

Ibra had Messi/Ronaldo-like numbers. If they came to United, would you not be expecting the same? I would.

Ibra has 45 goals in 50 matches in 2016. 10 of them are at United which is pretty decent. But I want him to score more than one goal. He used to be scoring hat tricks and I'm not talking about Ligue 1, he's done it in the Champions League which is the highest calibre in club football.

I still think he's our best player by the way. But it's frustrating cause all the things you would expect him to do right (finishing, heading, scoring great goals), he's been relatively poor at. And the question marks most people had about him were his age and how he would cope with the Premier League. He suits the league. If he finished all his chances, he would be at around 20 goals by now. So frustrating.

I'm glad we have him for another season cause I think next season will define him as a United player.

 

[Jaybomb]

Leon Osman's comments on Sky Sports made the idea that you would ever bring Fellaini on to defend a league look utterly ridiculous.

Leon Osman is a prick. He would never say it if Fellaini was one of his English bum chums.

He's had a lot of good defensive displays for us. It was one penalty ffs. It's happened to the best of players. Blind, Smalling and other "fan favourites" are guilty of costing us matches this season. I see no overreaction there.

 

[R'hllor]

Not the first time he done it,it is/was move of a true coward,he is making decisions of a scared man,fear of the worst outcome and every time he acted based on his fears,those fears came true.

How he set us up vs City at home or he subs where he changes wide player for pure CM. I dont mind at all him parking a bus,or trying to defend a lead but not like a coward,0 of sense that there is a plan behind those subs,no sense of control.

Edit: Ah and those who want him sacked,well think those people lost their shit.

 

[devilish]

Leon Osman is a prick. He would never say it if Fellaini was one of his English bum chums.

He's had a lot of good defensive displays for us. It was one penalty ffs. It's happened to the best of players. Blind, Smalling and other "fan favourites" are guilty of costing us matches this season. I see no overreaction there.

He's a cnut who keep doing these nasty things.

The real problem here is shown in the second paragraph ie Smalling/Blind being labelled as the best of players. I am sorry, but a team who really want to win the EPL should have the likes of Smalling/Blind as squad players not as 'best of players'. I mean, can you see these guys fighting for a first team place if Vidic-Rio or Stam-Johnsen were around? I much doubt it.

Standards had been slipping (Fellaini is yet another example of that). Its time we have a squad that is truly Manchester United's standards

 

[Infra-red]

As Gary Neville said post-match, perfectly reasonable decision to bring on Fellaini at that stage of the game, given the aerial bombardment coming our way. The player let the manager down with his utter stupidity.

 

[Water Melon]

Fellaini's last game in the red shirt it was. A total feck up by Jose. Sitting too deep, midfield not functioning properly, being unable to play from the back to start a meaningful counter attack, Ibra being not the fastest of the attackers. All of the above and Mou subs Fellaini in, who is rash, has very bad positioning and far from being perfect in the air and with almost zero ability to make a decent pass under pressure. Everyone on the caf knew that the introduction of the Belgian will weaken our play, but Jose thought differently. Shame it did not work out for him. If we are not in CL next season, Eddy will start asking questions...

 

[Annihilate Now!]

As Gary Neville said post-match, perfectly reasonable decision to bring on Fellaini at that stage of the game, given the aerial bombardment coming our way. The player let the manager down with his utter stupidity.

Ah, but you surely have to expect the stupidity when it comes to Fellaini. I mean, were any of us really surprised by that? You make a rod for your own back when you bring him on.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

Eddy can suck his mum tbqfh.

Another clueless twat.

 

[settembrini]

I don't understand why we don't play more counter attacking football when defending a lead. It lets you be more solid defensively whilst still retaining an attacking threat so the opposition can't just push everyone forward.

Yesterday Rashford coming on for Ibrahimovic would have made sense, he would have pressed more and his pace in behind would have kept the Everton defence honest. Bringing him on for Martial had no tactical benefit and Martial was playing well anyway. Then subbing Mkhitaryan for Fellaini crippled our counter attacking chances and just invited a lot more pressure.

 

[BigBebe]

Leon Osman is a prick. He would never say it if Fellaini was one of his English bum chums.

He's had a lot of good defensive displays for us. It was one penalty ffs. It's happened to the best of players. Blind, Smalling and other "fan favourites" are guilty of costing us matches this season. I see no overreaction there.

The point he was making is that Fellaini would inadvertently injure players in training by basically being clumsy and out of control so having him in your penalty box is always going to be a risk.

 

[johanovic]

You gotta be shitting me now.

Pretty much every game at from February-May in 14/15.
The FA Cup run last season where he scored a bunch of goals.
He kept Fabregas, Yaya Toure, Ozil and a ton of other "supposed" world class midfielders in his pocket.
A few games at the start of this season he was good in the holding role.

I hate these kneejerk reactions. He conceded a penalty. It was stupid, I'm angry. But lets not go overboard with it. That could have been anybody else and I bet the reaction wouldn't be as over the top.

Do you really rate this player? Since arriving 2013 for close to 30 million he has scored 7 goals, no assist, hardly any key passes, 2 red cards and 21 yellow cards. His idea of being a "hard" man is throwing his elbow around and he should have been sent of more often than he has. My idea of a United central midfield player is somebody who can dictacte tempo,press and deliver key passes, Fellaini does none of this and he is by no means fit to be a United player. Play the young Fosu Mensah instead as he at least has pace and power. Do you think Fellaini would get anywhear near the starting team at Chelsea,Arsenal,Liverpool,City,Spurs or Bayern,Dortmund,Real,Barca or A.Madrid. No he would not and that say´s it all about the quality of United´s midfield. A few years back our midfield 4 would have been almost certain starters in those teams here above.

 

[johanovic]

I did watch the Bournmouth vs Liverpool game yesterday and that was a proper football match with both teams going at it until the final minute, we on the other hand park the bus against the "mighty" Everton after outplaying them for most of the match and invite them to attack us.

 

[2 man midfield]

Leon Osman is a prick. He would never say it if Fellaini was one of his English bum chums.

He's had a lot of good defensive displays for us. It was one penalty ffs. It's happened to the best of players. Blind, Smalling and other "fan favourites" are guilty of costing us matches this season. I see no overreaction there.

You can't have read very far then. Knee jerk reactions are a post-match Caf forte, and I remember each getting scalded individually after errors.

The difference is, we all saw this one coming. It's easily prevented, and hard to accuse posters of being knee jerk when it's about the third time it's happened in recent memory.

 

[Jaybomb]

Do you really rate this player? Since arriving 2013 for close to 30 million he has scored 7 goals, no assist, hardly any key passes, 2 red cards and 21 yellow cards. His idea of being a "hard" man is throwing his elbow around and he should have been sent of more often than he has. My idea of a United central midfield player is somebody who can dictacte tempo,press and deliver key passes, Fellaini does none of this and he is by no means fit to be a United player. Play the young Fosu Mensah instead as he at least has pace and power. Do you think Fellaini would get anywhear near the starting team at Chelsea,Arsenal,Liverpool,City,Spurs or Bayern,Dortmund,Real,Barca or A.Madrid. No he would not and that say´s it all about the quality of United´s midfield. A few years back our midfield 4 would have been almost certain starters in those teams here above.

Manchester United is a bigger club than all of those teams apart from Real, Barca and Bayern. So I would have to say yes. He would get games for all of those teams. Except maybe Liverpool who play with such a high tempo.

Chelsea and Arsenal were interested in him when he was at Everton. And Man City and Spurs have Fernando and Wanyama. I rate Fellaini above both of those guys.

Look, the fact is every manager thats managed him has favoured him. Van Gaal, Wilmotts, Moyes, Mourinho, even Martinez only sold him because we bid 30m for him. When you consider the likes of Stones, Sane, Sterling, etc go for close to 50m, that doesn't look like a bad deal anymore and if we were to sell, I'm sure we would get at least 15-20m for him. If he's bad as you're saying he is, then why does he play so much? These guys study football for years. We all have our opinions and favourites but lets not act like he's a shite footballer with zero attributes. He has his strengths and weaknesses. Nobody said they were pretty but more often than not, he is effective in the big games.

 

[devilish]

Ah, but you surely have to expect the stupidity when it comes to Fellaini. I mean, were any of us really surprised by that? You make a rod for your own back when you bring him on.

You expect stupidity from Fellaini just as you expect stupidity from Darmian and Rojo. You also expect Schniederlin and Depay to vanish in the game, Jones to vanish in the treatment room, Young to not be able to dribble past any opponent etc etc etc

Bottom line of the story, this squad is not good enough.