Get a grip. Again.
@Pascal Quiff
@Pascal Quiff
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Most overrated ex Manchester United players
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
100% agree
Ander Herrera
I thought his emotional goodbye video was bizarre considering absolutely nothing happened in his whole time here
They didn't.
Although I disagree, there are quite a few mentions of Carrick's immobility on the first couple of pages.
We won 5 PL and reached 3 CL finals in a short few years.
He was one of our most important players in that time.
He was a different player to Essien and Toure. His peer would've been Busquets.
My definition of world class is that if you were picking a World XI, this player would be part of the conversation but might not make the team. So it's basically 2/3/4 players for each position.
I think in that period Carrick was in the top 2 or 3 in his position but obviously Busquets would make the World XI cos he won everything at club and international level in that period.
You'd probably just pick the Barcelona/Spain midfield in that period but there was lots of other world class midfielders like Alonso, Pirlo, Scholes, Gerard etc..
Carrick was probably born 10y early. He would be mint in today football.
But he was weak on the ball and easily dominated by any solid MF.
Definitely don't agree on Nani. I would take Nani on his day over Ronaldo on his day. He was nigh unplayable at times in 2010. His problem was always consistency.
Van de Beek, Varane
Probably because we replaced him with Maguire. He wasn't world class but still better than all the dross that came after, until Licha.
Which is indicative of how the club has been run for over a decade. Thus, it has led to his abilities as a player being extremely overstated.
I'm only 33, but either most of you are 20 and only started watching since fergie left or I need to get my memory checked. some truly wild takes in this thread.
By the time I got to the bottom of the first page i realised people are just saying shit to get responded too.
I read Beckham, Scholes and Van Nistelrooy.
feck me.
I read Beckham, Scholes and Van Nistelrooy.
feck me.
To elaborate: to call players who were key players in our serial title winning teams overrated is ludicrous (e.g. Carrick, who was if anything extremely underrated due to his non-flashy style of play. Our understanding of football back then was very different to today's appreciation of positional play and line-breaking/press-breaking passes by DMs).
On the other hand, I have no problem with calling Fergie's squad players overrated because they were often carried by the team and Fergie's amazing man-management, or basically any post-Fergie player.
Berbatov wins this by some distance.
Some pretty bizarre takes in this thread.
Just from the opening post; Valencia, Nani and Zlatan?
Nani spent almost his entire time at United getting constantly slagged off by United fans. I haven't seen anyone compare him to Ronaldo since. People have just realised that in comparison to what we have now, he was actually pretty good. In comparison to the line up of world class forwards/all time greats we had at the time, he was quite frustrating.
Valencia was a very good player for almost his entire time at United, then left when he couldn't reach those levels anymore. Again I've not seen anyone try to claim he was world class but actually he was probably the best fullback in the league for a couple of years despite not actually being a fullback. If anything I think he's massively underappreciated.
Zlatan is one of the most iconic players of his era and the one season we got out of him won us 2 trophies and is the only time post Ferguson I think we've had any genuine aura of being a successful team, which I don't think was a coincidence.
Herrera is possibly fair shout in the right context. Although I did really like him as a player and again some of the stick he's got on here since leaving has been ten times as dumb as any over the top nostalgia, which in fairness is also definitely a thing.
Neville - dangerous shout but I actually slightly agree. Do think he was a top level full back but only for a limited period between around 2004/2005 and a couple of years later when he became too old. Before that he was very error prone.
My actual shouts would be:
Jaap Stam - Really good player. Loved him, but he's been built into this legendary figure based on Ferguson prematurely getting rid of him imo. Rio + Vidic were both better defenders for me and also spent the entire best parts of their career at the club, yet if anything are spoken of in less high regard.
Veron - He had a really good first month and then was largely shite. A bit like Pogba in that he was clearly capable of brilliance, but you'd have to go through 5 whole games of him being between bang average and garbage, for the one moment where he beats 3 players, plays a one two and places the ball in the bottom corner. Which just made it more annoying because clearly you can't do that if you're as average as he looked the other 95% of the time. He then went to Chelsea and was the same except instead of good first month he had a good first game against Liverpool. Loved watching him play later in his career but that doesn't change the fact it didn't really work out in a United shirt or in the Premier League in general.
Just from the opening post; Valencia, Nani and Zlatan?
Nani spent almost his entire time at United getting constantly slagged off by United fans. I haven't seen anyone compare him to Ronaldo since. People have just realised that in comparison to what we have now, he was actually pretty good. In comparison to the line up of world class forwards/all time greats we had at the time, he was quite frustrating.
Valencia was a very good player for almost his entire time at United, then left when he couldn't reach those levels anymore. Again I've not seen anyone try to claim he was world class but actually he was probably the best fullback in the league for a couple of years despite not actually being a fullback. If anything I think he's massively underappreciated.
Zlatan is one of the most iconic players of his era and the one season we got out of him won us 2 trophies and is the only time post Ferguson I think we've had any genuine aura of being a successful team, which I don't think was a coincidence.
Herrera is possibly fair shout in the right context. Although I did really like him as a player and again some of the stick he's got on here since leaving has been ten times as dumb as any over the top nostalgia, which in fairness is also definitely a thing.
Neville - dangerous shout but I actually slightly agree. Do think he was a top level full back but only for a limited period between around 2004/2005 and a couple of years later when he became too old. Before that he was very error prone.
My actual shouts would be:
Jaap Stam - Really good player. Loved him, but he's been built into this legendary figure based on Ferguson prematurely getting rid of him imo. Rio + Vidic were both better defenders for me and also spent the entire best parts of their career at the club, yet if anything are spoken of in less high regard.
Veron - He had a really good first month and then was largely shite. A bit like Pogba in that he was clearly capable of brilliance, but you'd have to go through 5 whole games of him being between bang average and garbage, for the one moment where he beats 3 players, plays a one two and places the ball in the bottom corner. Which just made it more annoying because clearly you can't do that if you're as average as he looked the other 95% of the time. He then went to Chelsea and was the same except instead of good first month he had a good first game against Liverpool. Loved watching him play later in his career but that doesn't change the fact it didn't really work out in a United shirt or in the Premier League in general.
Pogback. What a waste after that buildup.
Lukaku.
Di Maria.
Too many to count over the years.
Lukaku.
Di Maria.
Too many to count over the years.
I cant for the life of me figure out why there is a need to shit on former servants of the club like this. This is completely classless.
Watch his hat-trick against Liverpool and then try again
Unbeliavable thread, most overrated players in here are those who all of you would give your left nut to have in this team. Players who were great, did their job, won trophies. Yet, very few mentioned dancer and dabber Pogba, some wrote Herrea's name who is, for some reason loved by fans like he was God, is it because he made a move like he is spitting on City badge at Etihad? Bild a statue for him for it. Don't remember seing Sancho' name, or Rashford or majority of the team last 7,8 years. Have a feeling it is either very young people here or just fanbois.
What is next? Cantona was overrated? Keano? Rooney?
What is next? Cantona was overrated? Keano? Rooney?
Do you realize that someone can be world-class and still be overrated?
Under-rated is easier than over-rated.
Because of the intense scrutiny of players at United, you get very few names who fall into the over-rated category.
Some players like Saha, Berbatov, Pogba and others were very good players and got loads of credit but they could be so inconsistent. That makes it harder to rate them.
I can only come up with a few names over the years and my list would include Stepney, Stapleton, McQueen, Jordan, Anderson and Herrera off the top of my head.
I have no idea what some posters are thinking if they are naming Beckham, Neville, Scholes, Stam, Carrick, Van Nistelrooy, Van der Sar as over-rated.
Because of the intense scrutiny of players at United, you get very few names who fall into the over-rated category.
Some players like Saha, Berbatov, Pogba and others were very good players and got loads of credit but they could be so inconsistent. That makes it harder to rate them.
I can only come up with a few names over the years and my list would include Stepney, Stapleton, McQueen, Jordan, Anderson and Herrera off the top of my head.
I have no idea what some posters are thinking if they are naming Beckham, Neville, Scholes, Stam, Carrick, Van Nistelrooy, Van der Sar as over-rated.
The thread is a mess, but it's also due to the ellusive meaning of overrated and world class and such.
In short...
...players like RVN, Schmeichel, Veron, Beckham, Tevez, Zlatan, Varane, Van der Sar it's too harsh to call them overrated when it comes to their actual talent and carreers. Yet some of them might be call as such when it comes to: the period in United (Veron), the comparison with their former selves (Zlatan), the hype at a certain point (best English player ever or in the world Becks), still in these terms, it feels too much to associate such word with them.
In the middle there are players that has talent, but for most of us, they lacked in some point: consistency, intelligence to play, grinta, great attributes in some aspects, lacking too much in others....players like Bervatov, Nani, nowadays Bruno might fit that cathegory most of times. They can navigate from being underapreciated and underrated in their assets, to going too far with the praise, but at some point there is some middle ground that for many, or the majority, sthg was lacking there in some way that goes beyond some bad form in a certain period.
These players nonetheless can bring great numbers, succeess, or be the best among a not that great group or contribute a lot to titles and such, but still...
Other players named here, were from good, to really good or even excellent at some point in their perfomances and consistency, but lacked that extra quote of upper echelon talent: Neville, Carrick, Herrera, Valencia, etc etc...they might be called overrated if some of them for instance it's put on an equal level to another legend, for instance Neville in the same breath as Cafu or if we assign to them some traits or attributes that weren't there. Heinze for me his whole carreer was punching above his weight as a player regarding talent and he was quite beloved by fans in lots of clubs because he delivered in term of perfomances and personality, but he clearly was overrated if we compare him in terms of technical attributes with other great players in his position, no matter what player of the year he might won.
And lastely, there are players that are with or without talent, that might have some assets, but that are frustrating in some manner and that do not have the level of talent to forgive them, somone like Rojo. Yet I trully don't see how this type of players were trully overrated for real, in a case like Heinze yeap, with players like Rojo? that do not sustain a certain level of perfomances bar some sort of strong personality that can be at some point appealing.
Some players here mentioned as overrated were simply bad to mediocre or merely good for United or even their whole carreers, but do not even win the right to be overrated.
...sorry for the long post, continue with the bashing of Van der Sar, Schmeichel or Zlatan...
In short...
...players like RVN, Schmeichel, Veron, Beckham, Tevez, Zlatan, Varane, Van der Sar it's too harsh to call them overrated when it comes to their actual talent and carreers. Yet some of them might be call as such when it comes to: the period in United (Veron), the comparison with their former selves (Zlatan), the hype at a certain point (best English player ever or in the world Becks), still in these terms, it feels too much to associate such word with them.
In the middle there are players that has talent, but for most of us, they lacked in some point: consistency, intelligence to play, grinta, great attributes in some aspects, lacking too much in others....players like Bervatov, Nani, nowadays Bruno might fit that cathegory most of times. They can navigate from being underapreciated and underrated in their assets, to going too far with the praise, but at some point there is some middle ground that for many, or the majority, sthg was lacking there in some way that goes beyond some bad form in a certain period.
These players nonetheless can bring great numbers, succeess, or be the best among a not that great group or contribute a lot to titles and such, but still...
Other players named here, were from good, to really good or even excellent at some point in their perfomances and consistency, but lacked that extra quote of upper echelon talent: Neville, Carrick, Herrera, Valencia, etc etc...they might be called overrated if some of them for instance it's put on an equal level to another legend, for instance Neville in the same breath as Cafu or if we assign to them some traits or attributes that weren't there. Heinze for me his whole carreer was punching above his weight as a player regarding talent and he was quite beloved by fans in lots of clubs because he delivered in term of perfomances and personality, but he clearly was overrated if we compare him in terms of technical attributes with other great players in his position, no matter what player of the year he might won.
And lastely, there are players that are with or without talent, that might have some assets, but that are frustrating in some manner and that do not have the level of talent to forgive them, somone like Rojo. Yet I trully don't see how this type of players were trully overrated for real, in a case like Heinze yeap, with players like Rojo? that do not sustain a certain level of perfomances bar some sort of strong personality that can be at some point appealing.
Some players here mentioned as overrated were simply bad to mediocre or merely good for United or even their whole carreers, but do not even win the right to be overrated.
...sorry for the long post, continue with the bashing of Van der Sar, Schmeichel or Zlatan...
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If there's one thing this fanbase is good at it's shitting on club legends. United fans complain about opposition fans downplaying us under Fergie but this fanbase is just as bad and contribute to the nonsense narratives I see about United. Some of you in this thread genuinely haven't got a clue.
Completely agree with this
Ah so he just lucked his way to 13 league titles and multiple European cups then. Good to know.
So where's your argument?
It's pretty simple actually. Because they were very good players, but not as good as United supporters think. You actually just helped with the point. You can't even understand how someone can mention your hero.
I mean, there's people in here literally proving my original point.
He was a good player, he'd get into our current midfield (a low bar)...but can you honestly say with a straight face that anyone but a United fan would claim he was among the top 2 or 3 best players in his position at any point in time? Go and say it to any oppo/neutral fan watch them start laughing.
Go back to the late 00s and you'll find in-depth articles and forum discussions comparing Carrick to Barry or Arteta. I think that says everything.
He's remembered fondly by United fans for being a good passer, generally consistent performer and above all else, an easy guy to like. Good, but never world class like too many of us like to claim.
What’s that got to do with the overall argument that’s he’s overrated? He was obviously a class player. I don’t need to “try again” as I can actually remember.
He was constantly criticised during his time here. First season was very underwhelming with some big goals and moments of magic. Second season only scored 12 goals and was barely starting by the end, wouldn’t even have been looked at in big games and so many people saw him as a major problem. In his third season he won the golden boot, but this is also deceptive as all his goals came across only about 5 games and he completely lost his place in the team towards the end. A liability in lots of big games. Wasn’t even in the squad for the CL final that year.
Of course none of that means he’s a bad player or even an average player, especially considering the amount of shite we’ve had since then. That hattrick against Liverpool if scored now would be the best thing any of our players have done in years, hence why someone who’s watched it on YouTube 14 years later now gets pissy at the suggestion he’s overrated. But that’s exactly my point.
He is now seen as some god by United fans and has the most amazing highlight reel which makes people forget what it was actually like, hence why he is, in the context of all the great player we’ve had, overrated.
Ander Herrera - Good CM. When he was at the club the praise he used to get from the majority of fans though, bloody hell you'd think he was the next Bryan Robson or something. Good not Great.
Paul Pogba - He has a huge fanbase within the fanbase worldwide. Is still put up on a pedestal like he's world class, a legend of the game
. He flopped at United, extremely talented but failed to find any consistency in his game. Playing well every now and then doesnt equate World Class for me.
Anthony Martial - Always world class to the Martial FC Crew.
Raphael Varane - He'd have an OK game and fans would be falling at his feet. "Rolls Royce of a defender" etc when he clearly wasn't anymore. Poor games (and there were a few) were always brushed over too.
Rafael - Good but a rash defender and got pulled out of position way too often for me. Another player talked up quite a bit.
Paul Pogba - He has a huge fanbase within the fanbase worldwide. Is still put up on a pedestal like he's world class, a legend of the game
. He flopped at United, extremely talented but failed to find any consistency in his game. Playing well every now and then doesnt equate World Class for me.Anthony Martial - Always world class to the Martial FC Crew.
Raphael Varane - He'd have an OK game and fans would be falling at his feet. "Rolls Royce of a defender" etc when he clearly wasn't anymore. Poor games (and there were a few) were always brushed over too.
Rafael - Good but a rash defender and got pulled out of position way too often for me. Another player talked up quite a bit.
Ander Herrera - Good CM. When he was at the club the praise he used to get from the majority of fans though, bloody hell you'd think he was the next Bryan Robson or something. Good not Great.
Paul Pogba - He has a huge fanbase within the fanbase worldwide. Is still put up on a pedestal like he's world class, a legend of the game
Anthony Martial - Always world class to the Martial FC Crew.
Raphael Varane - He'd have an OK game and fans would be falling at his feet. "Rolls Royce of a defender" etc when he clearly wasn't anymore. Poor games (and there were a few) were always brushed over too.
Rafael - Good but a rash defender and got pulled out of position way too often for me. Another player talked up quite a bit.
I actually think he's a bit underrated... I guess it depends on who you talk to, but the average United fan seems to think he was shite here when he was badly misused and very, very good in periods.
Varane is not overrated either.
Falcao. Don’t know whether he wore slippery boots but he used to slip all over the pitch for no particular reason. Also past it when he arrived but the Caf was in bizzare ecstasy after he signed
Berba, Veron, Telles, Anderson, Pogba
5 of the top of my head
Berba - silky smooth but didn’t score enough goals
Veron - cost a fortune at the time, looked world class at Lazio but couldn’t deliver consistently in England
Telles - fans had people thinking he was as good at crossing as Trent, it would solve some issues with the attack. Instead he looked like he hadn’t seen a football before
Anderson - again, the hype was that he was going to be like Ronaldinho. Instead we got a happy go lucky lad who looked like he’d won a competition. Couldn’t last more than 60 mins and couldn’t pass or shoot. He used to thunder passes past his target. Still hard not to love the lad and he did give us some good memories.
Pogba - completely over hyped prior to rejoining and couldn’t ever deliver consistently. When he was on, he was on but at 1 in 10, he wasn’t deserving of big contracts.
I loved both Nani and Valencia. The latter gave great balance to the team until LVG broke him. Nani was so entertaining to watch. It’s a shame for him that people kept comparing to Ronaldo
5 of the top of my head
Berba - silky smooth but didn’t score enough goals
Veron - cost a fortune at the time, looked world class at Lazio but couldn’t deliver consistently in England
Telles - fans had people thinking he was as good at crossing as Trent, it would solve some issues with the attack. Instead he looked like he hadn’t seen a football before
Anderson - again, the hype was that he was going to be like Ronaldinho. Instead we got a happy go lucky lad who looked like he’d won a competition. Couldn’t last more than 60 mins and couldn’t pass or shoot. He used to thunder passes past his target. Still hard not to love the lad and he did give us some good memories.
Pogba - completely over hyped prior to rejoining and couldn’t ever deliver consistently. When he was on, he was on but at 1 in 10, he wasn’t deserving of big contracts.
I loved both Nani and Valencia. The latter gave great balance to the team until LVG broke him. Nani was so entertaining to watch. It’s a shame for him that people kept comparing to Ronaldo
Ji-Sung Park
Herrera
Mata
Heinze
Herrera
Mata
Heinze
I don't think it's bizarre to be in ecstasy over signing Falcao, despite the injury and strange move to monaco, he was considered at one point of the best around.
Also don't think anyone rates his time here for it to be considered overrated.
Alexis Sanchez. He was better at playing "glory glory Man. United" at the piano than playing football for us.
I’d love to see some posts making Herrera sound like prime Keane
Who rates Sanchez at United?
Varane in recent seasons. Never saw a world class CB when he played. Was involved in the all the embarrassing losses. He came in with such hype and was no better than Maguire.
Wan-Bissaka
Seriously?!?
What are the best quotes about Paul Scholes?
Zinedine Zidane: "My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder. Scholes is undoubtedly the greatest midfielder of his generation.”
Lionel Messi: "At La Masia his name was mentioned a lot. He’s a teacher."
Xavi: "For me, he's the best central midfielder I've seen in the last 15, 20 years."
Thierry Henry: "I can’t understand why Scholes has never won the player of the year award. He should have won it long ago. Maybe it’s because he doesn’t seek the limelight like some of the other ‘stars’."
Ronaldo (Brazilian): “He’s the phenomenon.”
David Beckham: “He’s always one of those people others talk about. Even playing at Real Madrid, the players always say to me ‘what’s he like’? They respect him as a footballer and see him as the ultimate.”
Cesc Fabregas: "He is the one whose level I aspire to. He is the best player in the Premier League."
Pep Guardiola: “Out of everyone at Manchester United, I would pick out Scholes – he is the best midfielder of his generation. I would have loved to have played alongside him.”
Laurent Blanc: "I tell anyone who asks me – Scholes is the best English player."
Patrick Vieira: "The player in the Premiership I admire most? Easy – Scholes."
Ronaldinho: “I want to pass like him. Who taught him how to do that?”
Luis Figo: "I’m star-struck when I see Paul Scholes because you never see him. On the pitch, you can’t catch him. Off the pitch, he disappears."
Edgar Davids: "Everyone of us should emulate him. We can all learn from Paul Scholes.”