Most overrated ex Manchester United players

Kush said:
Michael Carrick, our fans were so starved of any mid who could pass about at a decent to high level that they convinced themselves he was "World Class". Far from it, teams which could recycle possession quick or pressed effectively he looked devoid of ideas. Still a good player mind, but I never really thought he had the edge to him when we were playing big European teams. His performance in 2nd leg of QF against Bayern at home, my opinion changed on him.

Recent history, Juan Mata. His only great season arrived at Chelsea, and he was thoroughly underwhelming during his time here. His quality stood out in certain moments perhaps due to the fact how abysmally low on quality we were running elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Carrick is not in a position which is usually appreciated by the fanbase. I remember when we paid 16m or so to Spurs (most of it funded Obi Mikel money), the CAF went berserk. I think it was our only business that window as well. Prior to that, we actually didn't have a proper midfield setup. It was mostly Scholes (who was injured a lot), Fletcher, Smith or O'Shea being rotated (take the established Scholes out and it was a comedy show back in 2005). After Carrick, everything seemed to just stablize as if he was the missing piece of the jigsaw. Fletcher turned good and we could play anyone in midfield with seemingly magical results when Carrick was around. Ronaldo started his magical spree that season as well.

So, I don't know what is considered world class, but he was genuinely an excellent player for us. I wish we had one like him now.
 
Perro Caca said:
Park Ji Sung - Blown up to be mort important than he was due to some good champions league performances, playing him almost always conceded possession and made us defensive. If you played him against a lower table Premier league club that wasn't wolves it would be like having 10 players.
Click to expand...
Used to drive me mad watching him fall over or miscontrol the ball with every other touch only to come on here after the match and see people praise him for ‘creating space with his movement’. He was piss poor in most matches but had a knack of getting goals in big games.
 
Munkehboi said:
I'd argue that rather than this type of player, fans are are crying out for players with Parks determination, commitment, loyalty and energy. On the ball he was one of the worse I've ever seen in a Utd shirt. Off the ball he was something else though. Complimented our attacking talent well.

I'd add Kagawa, DDG and most definitely Pogba to the list as well.
Click to expand...

bringbackbebe said:
Carrick is not in a position which is usually appreciated by the fanbase. I remember when we paid 16m or so to Spurs (most of it funded Obi Mikel money), the CAF went berserk. I think it was our only business that window as well. Prior to that, we actually didn't have a proper midfield setup. It was mostly Scholes (who was injured a lot), Fletcher, Smith or O'Shea being rotated (take the established Scholes out and it was a comedy show back in 2005). After Carrick, everything seemed to just stablize as if he was the missing piece of the jigsaw. Fletcher turned good and we could play anyone in midfield with seemingly magical results when Carrick was around. Ronaldo started his magical spree that season as well.

So, I don't know what is considered world class, but he was genuinely an excellent player for us. I wish we had one like him now.
Click to expand...
Agree. He was the perfect player for that midfield. We didn't used to dominate the games against the big teams so his drilled passes that bypassed the midfield were godsent.
 
Scottynaldinho said:
My list goes like this:
1: Nani - you'd think he was the second coming of Cristiano)

2: Ander Herrera - again, when you read about him now you'd see the description of Roy Keane)

3: Zlatan - only the number of goals is mentioned without the mention of inconsistency and how detrimental he was to our attack

4: Valencia - A bit harsh here but he only had a couple of good seasons and then the mix of average/bad seasons

5: Gary Neville - A brilliant player and won everything just not at the same level as others in the class of 92
Click to expand...

Bollocks, Neville was an excellent right back at the time, was consistently one of the best right backs in the world for most of his Utd career.

Zlatan, great player. But his Utd stint was overplayed.

The rest I'd agree with, if Nani was playing now he'd get worse abuse than Antony on here.
 
Perro Caca said:
Edwin Van Der Sar - World class but nowhere near Schmeichel, unfairly got credit for that European record of clean sheets when Vidic played out of skin for us and should've won player of the year but for a slip against Torres.
Click to expand...
What! :mad:

He's our best ever keeper.
 
MiceOnMeth said:
Valencia and Nani were better for us than Mata (and far cheaper too)
Click to expand...
Yep. Juan Mata for me. Maybe not overrated, but certainly got away with a lot by virtue of being a nice guy and scoring an overhead kick vs Liverpool. For the most part largely underwhelmed, considering he was our record transfer at some point.
 
Wumminator said:
I’m not talking just about that year. I’m talking about their overall careers. Of the starters from 99 - Giggs, Scholes, Keane, Stam, Schmeichel, Irwin were all better players in their position than Beckham and I’d have Neville as well due to longevity and just because I like him more.

Yet ask anyone who United’s best three players were around the turn of the millennium they’d probably say Beckham.
Click to expand...
Is this real?
 
Feels like the ultimate betrayal saying this as an Irish United fan and I do know he's not rated particularly highly anyway, but I never knew what supposedly made John O'Shea good enough for us other than his versatility.

Engrained into my memory is the image of us with the ball at the back, confidently knocking it around along the backline and into midfield and then invariably when the ball came to O'Shea he just hoofed it long, mostly fairly aimlessly. It always happened. I'm nearly certain I'm not deceiving myself on this. It destroyed our rhythm constantly. I never understood it.
 
next_number_seven said:
Carrick was one of the best players in the world in his position for basically a decade. That's world class.
Click to expand...

I wasn't on RedCafe between 2009 and 12 but I'm sure you can find weekly threads from back then where everyone is complaining about our shocking midfield, constantly passing sideways and getting bullied by any team with the slightest physicality. Carrick was the biggest culprit by far in all of this.

I think the poster you've quoted nailed it. Carrick was clearly a good player, and he did a very good job for us in Fergie's last great team, 2006 - 09, where the midfield was the least important part. Was he ever world class, or at the level of the best DMs of that time? No chance for me - too many games getting bullied by players like Dembele, Cabaye, Tiote, Parker, even Fellaini.

There's a reason we had to drag a 37-year-old Scholes out of retirement in that 11/12 season.
 
alexthelion said:
What! :mad:

He's our best ever keeper.
Click to expand...

Is he? Id argue he was at fault for a goal in every UCL final we played. Slipped when Lampard scored, beaten at his near post by Eto'o and Messi's goal went past him despite it being in the centre of the goal.
 
Mickson said:
I have rewatched some old games and he is flappy as hell. Just running out, flaxing at everything. From what I've seen VDS was a better all-round keeper.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

It was especially noticeable during that 99 season.
 
Lay said:
Is he? Id argue he was at fault for a goal in every UCL final we played. Slipped when Lampard scored, beaten at his near post by Eto'o and Messi's goal went past him despite it being in the centre of the goal.
Click to expand...
:eek:
 
Robbie Boy said:
The overrating of Smalling got really weird at one point. Great shout.
Click to expand...
I remember his thread getting bumped every time he played for Roma. Excellent defender in 1v1 situations with very poor positioning and injury record.
 
Judging by overall output post Fergie, I still believe that Smalling is our best CB.

Vidic was already past it when Fergie retired. Evans was never that good before he got sold. Yes, Martinez and Varane are clearly better players, but they've given us about 1 season's worth of football.
 
Scottynaldinho said:
I remember his thread getting bumped every time he played for Roma. Excellent defender in 1v1 situations with very poor positioning and injury record.
Click to expand...

I mean, I liked him, he was a solid player who had some good seasons with us. Overall though, there's a cohort that wildly overrate the bloke.
 
King Azaz the Unabridged said:
I wasn't on RedCafe between 2009 and 12 but I'm sure you can find weekly threads from back then where everyone is complaining about our shocking midfield, constantly passing sideways and getting bullied by any team with the slightest physicality. Carrick was the biggest culprit by far in all of this.

I think the poster you've quoted nailed it. Carrick was clearly a good player, and he did a very good job for us in Fergie's last great team, 2006 - 09, where the midfield was the least important part. Was he ever world class, or at the level of the best DMs of that time? No chance for me - too many games getting bullied by players like Dembele, Cabaye, Tiote, Parker, even Fellaini.

There's a reason we had to drag a 37-year-old Scholes out of retirement in that 11/12 season.
Click to expand...
I also remember when Carrick made an awful pass that lead to City’s goal in the FA Cup semi final in 2011.
 
King Azaz the Unabridged said:
I wasn't on RedCafe between 2009 and 12 but I'm sure you can find weekly threads from back then where everyone is complaining about our shocking midfield, constantly passing sideways and getting bullied by any team with the slightest physicality. Carrick was the biggest culprit by far in all of this.

I think the poster you've quoted nailed it. Carrick was clearly a good player, and he did a very good job for us in Fergie's last great team, 2006 - 09, where the midfield was the least important part. Was he ever world class, or at the level of the best DMs of that time? No chance for me - too many games getting bullied by players like Dembele, Cabaye, Tiote, Parker, even Fellaini.

There's a reason we had to drag a 37-year-old Scholes out of retirement in that 11/12 season.
Click to expand...
But it was total nonsense, as other pointed out he had the most forward passes of any player in the top 5 leagues. He was carrying our midfield, he was not the problem with it. He was able to bully Yaya toure, he certainly was not being bullied.

He controlled games against teams like Chelsea and Liverpool all the time, especially against Liverpool.

The main problem is this DM label, he was more a deep laying playmaker and needed someone with him defensively, which is why his best seasons had a player next to him to help defensively.
 
Scandi Red said:
Judging by overall output post Fergie, I still believe that Smalling is our best CB.

Vidic was already past it when Fergie retired. Evans was never that good before he got sold. Yes, Martinez and Varane are clearly better players, but they've given us about 1 season's worth of football.
Click to expand...
That could be true. But, if it is, it says more about our central defenders since Fergie. He would get nowhere near a best 11 ever for us, and he probably wouldn't have started for any other top 6 club during the time we had him.
He was a touch above bang average who just happened to play for us at a time when our other CBs were worse.
 
Reiver said:
That could be true. But, if it is, it says more about our central defenders since Fergie.
Click to expand...

True.

Reiver said:
He would get nowhere near a best 11 ever for us
Click to expand...

True.

Reiver said:
He was a touch above bang average who just happened to play for us at a time when our other CBs were worse.
Click to expand...

Here I disagree. His career as a whole is probably "a touch above bang average", but in his best 2-3 years I think that he was a good defender.
 
Carrick.

He was a very good player, but not world-class as some might argue, and he was definitely prone to making mistakes under pressure.
 
next_number_seven said:
Carrick was one of the best players in the world in his position for basically a decade. That's world class.
Click to expand...

One of the best doesn't quite cut it for most people's definition of "World Class". Carrick was a good player, but I don't think he was ever truly in the reckoning of world's best midfielder. You'd walk into most top teams midfield if you were world class, Carrick wouldn't.


bringbackbebe said:
Carrick is not in a position which is usually appreciated by the fanbase. I remember when we paid 16m or so to Spurs (most of it funded Obi Mikel money), the CAF went berserk. I think it was our only business that window as well. Prior to that, we actually didn't have a proper midfield setup. It was mostly Scholes (who was injured a lot), Fletcher, Smith or O'Shea being rotated (take the established Scholes out and it was a comedy show back in 2005). After Carrick, everything seemed to just stablize as if he was the missing piece of the jigsaw. Fletcher turned good and we could play anyone in midfield with seemingly magical results when Carrick was around. Ronaldo started his magical spree that season as well.

So, I don't know what is considered world class, but he was genuinely an excellent player for us. I wish we had one like him now.
Click to expand...

Our midfield was neglected for so long that it became a running joke that Fergie doesn't care about mids. Carrick was a missing piece sure, but people forget it was Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Vidic, VDS all turning up a level or two which took us to world's best. When they left or declined, Carrick really got exposed when we would play Europe's elite. A World Class mid holds its own even when their legs have gone, see Kroos and Modric as perfect example. Carrick got bullied a lot whenever we played physical teams, Chelsea are best example of this. Essien ran us over pretty much all by himself. Once Yaya Toure signed for City, we saw the same happen with them. Liverpool despite being much worse always gave us a tough fight because they had more energy in midfield. In Europe, it was a common theme too. See the matches vs Bayern or Barca from that period.

This is exactly why Michael Carrick fits the billing perfect for being "overrated ex-Utd player", because he is. People talk about him as an all conquering world class midfielder who helped us control games, but after Scholes tailed off we barely ever controlled games vs top sides. It was all about quick transitions into counter-attacks. Carrick looked a world beater to us because of how little quality we had in midfield, actual world class midfielders dominated him. And, it was not only them but mids from several rungs below also did the same if they were physical. Remember Moussa Dembele or Marouane Fellaini?
 
Quite a few real really good players we have had that are still masssively over rated with the world class for a decade tag, but wont name them as know the inevitable response.

Easily Pogba for me, hugely talented but not just his career here over rated here. So lacking in several ares of his game and inconsistent at every club, international performances also over rated.

We slate players like Bissaka for lacking so much in certain areas....yet still see talk of how great Pogba would have been with the right players around him. He was surrounded by world class players at Juventus first time round, real quality players...he still often went missing in big games, especially in the champions league
 
Rojo, many here thought he was amazing.

Awful signing for £17m + Nani on loan.
 
King Azaz the Unabridged said:
I wasn't on RedCafe between 2009 and 12 but I'm sure you can find weekly threads from back then where everyone is complaining about our shocking midfield, constantly passing sideways and getting bullied by any team with the slightest physicality. Carrick was the biggest culprit by far in all of this.

I think the poster you've quoted nailed it. Carrick was clearly a good player, and he did a very good job for us in Fergie's last great team, 2006 - 09, where the midfield was the least important part. Was he ever world class, or at the level of the best DMs of that time? No chance for me - too many games getting bullied by players like Dembele, Cabaye, Tiote, Parker, even Fellaini.

There's a reason we had to drag a 37-year-old Scholes out of retirement in that 11/12 season.
Click to expand...


Really? Don't recall any of this.
 
Leftback99 said:
Rojo, many here thought he was amazing.

Awful signing for £17m + Nani on loan.
Click to expand...
Never realised anyone rated him. Agree, he was awful.

Herrera for me. Decent player who had a handful of outstanding games. Never was consistently at the level I heard some talk about him at.
 
Great thread. We definitely need to shit on our players even more.
 
Hammondo said:
But it was total nonsense, as other pointed out he had the most forward passes of any player in the top 5 leagues. He was carrying our midfield, he was not the problem with it. He was able to bully Yaya toure, he certainly was not being bullied.

He controlled games against teams like Chelsea and Liverpool all the time, especially against Liverpool.

The main problem is this DM label, he was more a deep laying playmaker and needed someone with him defensively, which is why his best seasons had a player next to him to help defensively.
Click to expand...

On the bolded bit: once, when we won at the Etihad in 2012/13, sure. That was by far Carrick's best season - for the rest of his and Yaya Toure's time in England, the bullying was the other way around, and not by players anywhere near Toure's level. I listed a bunch of them in my last post, and those are just from matches that were so painful to watch they're still seared in the memory a decade and a half later. It was especially obvious when we paired Carrick with one of Giggs/Scholes in the middle, other teams would just stroll through.

Controlling games against Chelsea: I remember the home and away legs in the CL, when we reached the final, but I don't remember Carrick being the one who did the controlling (which is a general theme - more on that below). Liverpool were rubbish for a lot of Carrick's time here and we still didn't control much - if anything, we got outplayed by some truly woeful Liverpool sides in that period. Did we not go winless at Anfield in the league between 2007 and 2012, or something?

As for the last bit, we're both remembering Carrick very differently, because the one thing he was elite at and we sorely missed whenever he wasn't playing was his positioning and ball-winning via interceptions - he was much better at the defensive side of being a CM, whereas when it comes to being a deep-lying playmaker he was never on the level of his peers who were actually elite (Pirlo, Alonso, Modric, Busquets, etc). And his best seasons/performances came when he was the more defensive-minded midfielder - 2006/07, he had Scholes with him, having a proper career renaissance. 2010/11 when he was very good in our CL final run, that was with Giggs pulling the strings. From early 2009 to 11 until Fletcher's illness, they were probably our first-choice midfield pair, and it was mostly Carrick sitting deep and Fletcher in a box-to-box role. I'll give him 2012/13 because I honestly don't even remember what Cleverley did that season, it was pretty much a one-man midfield.

Even after Fergie's retirement, whenever our midfield looked vaguely good it was in a 4-3-3 with Carrick at the base of the trio, screening the defence with a couple of box to box players ahead of him (Herrera and Fellaini under LvG, and Pogba and Herrera under Mourinho).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.