To avoid the exact scenarios that occurred where we capitulated after he left. That's why you focus on performance just a little bit as well. We didn't, we stagnated and felt okay doing so because we had a tendency to figure out how to win, and that let to the laughable situation we eventually landed up in, and why we're having to basically play football manager and build a whole new team spending fortunes.
Morgan Schneiderlin | BBC: Morgan Schneiderlin is currently having a medical at Manchester United.
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If you ask me, I think his obsession about control, which was key to his many successes turned into a noose at the very end of his career. He simply couldnt understand the ever increasing power, agents were given in football and the lack of patience foreign young talent had. SAF had this idea that if a player gives his 100 percent and obeys the manager like a lap dog than irrespective on whether he remains at OT or not, he would do anything in his power to give him a job in football. That may serve well with the likes of Philip Nev or John Curtis but not with the likes of Giuseppe Rossi and Pogba. These players knew what they wanted (ie play games), didnt see the EPL as the alpha and omega of football and had agents to do the job SAF did for so many years.
The more time passed, players were relying more on agents (who wanted to get paid for their services) and players became less patient. That acted as a straight jacket for SAF who would rather lose quality players than lose control over the team. SAF never lost his touch. It just football turned into a beast that SAF couldn't accept
Agreed. His biggest mistake was losing that ruthlessness he had in replacing players when there time was up. We should have properly replaced scholes and giggs years before, but his love for them meant he didn't want too move them on, or use them as back ups. When Scholes retired we really should have spent big, but instead relied on clev and Anderson, then brought him back when in dire need. Pretty poor really.
He spent big money on Nani and Anderson to replace them.
The fact he continued playing Scholes and Giggs for so long wasn't out of misplaced love for them, it was a combination of them continuing to perform at a very high level for longer than expected (hence the team remained succesful) and Nani/Anderson taking far longer than hoped to force the other two out of the team (eventually failing entirely to do so) He wasn't lacking in ruthlessness at all. Just being pragmatic. If we'd signed, say, Modric and Bale instead things could have turned out very different. The error was the choice of replacements, not loyalty to the old guard.
Thats another aspect of the same thing I have mentioned ie loyalty. It became an issue in his later years however its been part of SAF's package since forever. For example he kept Robson till 36 years of age at a time when training was so raw that 36 years old was in fact ancient. In fact in his final year, Robson could barely make it to the pitch anymore
SAF would never turn his back at a player who had given his 100 percent for the club and had always obeyed him irrespective on whether such strategy would hinder the team's success or not. So what had changed? Once again it was the player's mentality. While the Schmeichels and the Cantonas would leave rather then look ridiculous in front of their fans, their successors didnt had such insight or pride. TBF I cant completely blame them. Its difficult for some one like Ryan Giggs to feel old when he's competing for a first team place alongside the likes of Ando and Cleverley.
Scholes and Giggs were not even first choice most of the time after 06-07.
He went 6+years after the nani and Anderson signings not buying any midfielders.......you could argue there was too much lotalty all round going on!!
Loyalty, faith, whatever. He probably should have given up on Nanderson sooner than he did. I'm just saying that their failure to develop as hoped was the main reason we remained reliant on Scholes and Giggs for so long, rather than Fergie showing too much faith in the older pair.
I kind of disagree. We didn't signed the top players because SAF simply refused to be 'held in ransom' by the 'evil' agents. The trouble was that those 'evil' agents were becoming the norm rather than the exception of the case. Hence our pool of available players shrinked which made it difficult to find good replacements for Scholes and Giggs. I can still remember Paddy laughing at suggestions that we should sign Ander Herrera stating quite clearly that he was out of our league. There's no way we would be able to lure a Basque player from Athletico Bilbao he said. That's the idea backed then
Having said that, we kept Fletcher out of pure loyalty. It was evident that the guy would never return to his former self.
He was too patient with them though. We should never have gone so many years without sorting the midfield out. I know we believe in potential but there's that and then going too far
Btw pogue, would this be the first player you've become a transfer muppet for? Of all players!
I dont believe it was patience. It was more an inability to replace them (and a big dose of sentimentality as most of them were his 'kids')
The hindsight when it comes to Ferguson's last few seasons is staggering. Especially since no one would called the likes of Valencia, Nani, Chicharito, Rafael, Jones, poor signing while Ferguson was here.
I've been a muppet on here for loads of players before. From Berbatov to Tevez to Valencia. I tend not to get too fussed about players from foreign leagues as I rarely watch them enough to have an informed opinion. PL players are different though. I've seen this guy enough to know it would be a grave error if we had the opportunity to sign him but chose not to.
The thing in brackets is exactly what I said. At the end of the day, if you're a club of this stature and you need to replace misfiring misfits like Anderson then you go out and do it. Plenty of fish and all that. I refuse to believe that there was an inability to replace Anderson and co.
I've probably seen a lot of him but I rarely notice these less noticeable ones at smaller clubs. It's a different way of watching I guess than when you're absolutely glued to a united match and noticing every little thing.
In all fairness it only becomes a grave error if we don't sign better or worse no one at all......If we pulled a Koke out of the bag no one would care....who knows right now who is and is not a target.
I think its both and no there wasn't plenty of fish around, not with the conditions set by SAF (who had a crusade against most of the agents unless they didnt worked the old way). The 'no one can Paul Scholes' phrase was pretty popular back than among anyone linked with Manchester United
Not the most illustrious list. Maybe we should avoid signing Schneiderlin.
Don't post full articles on here from The Times please. Niall gets emails from the newspapers when that happens. Post a summary of the article and leave it at that.
Ferguson created an environment in which it no longer mattered how well a player played in regards to keeping his place in the side. It was already decided that the geriatrics would be coming back the weekend after anyway. I genuinely believe that most midfielders in world football would have fell foul to the incessant urge to play Scholes and Giggs once every two weeks, in spite of the obvious signs of weakness as a result of doing so.
Nani did develop. He had a generally good time here. Anderson didn't, but it wasn't faith in him that prevented Ferguson from fixing the midfield. It was sentimentality rooted in nepotism.
Ah there me thinking this was the Schneiderlin thread.. 
Really? From all newspapers or just the Times 'cos it's paid for?
yep exactly 6 million, less than the cost of Bebe
First few sentences of that post are utter nonsense. I've never done one of those "stopped reading at" posts but that ran me very close...
Just those behind paywalls - e.g. The Times, The Sun, The Telegraph
Please don't post articles from the Sun. Ever.
Name better signings over that same period of time?
Whats that got to do with now? we dont have Fergie now
Since when has The Telegraph been behind a paywall?
This is what happens when you only read The Guardian....
Ages. They're the ones who first sent angry emails about members posting articles on here. They allow 20 articles to be read per month then have the rest behind a paywall. It can be bypassed but nobody discuss that on here.
Van Persie, De Gea, Herrera. Assuming you mean since then. If not then fair enough.
That list is no more illustrious than the one I posted. I'll give you De Gea (short-lived though his United career will probably be) but we got just one good season out of Van Persie and Hererra still has a lot to prove.
Valencia's been a great servant over the years, Tevez has proven himself a teriffic striker (albeit mainly not at United!) Berbatov's the only obvious flop but even he played his part in a some very successful seasons.
I'm not interested in the Ramos saga, this is the transfer i really want to happen and i really hope we are in for him and hope Arsenal don't beat us to him.
Big of you. I'm right, however. Ferguson picked teams weeks in advance. There's anecdotal evidence for that. He would pinpoint specific games in which he would bring in the oldies.
Towards the end we would drop points in almost every game he decided to start Giggs in central midfield. How many times would players like Gareth Bale have to run the length of our midfield for that to change? It didn't change. He persisted with it. We lost a league title because of it. In one of those games he decided to start with not one geriatric, or two, but three, with the inclusion of a clearly finished Ji-Sung Park at the Etihad.
That was a week after we lost to Wigan away, with Giggs putting in one of the most wasteful performances of his career in the middle of the park.
Preceding that was the game at Goodison Park. Paul Scholes was on a yellow card with 30 minutes to go. He was gassed, we were getting overrun, and there was universal agreement that taking Scholes off for some energy would benefit the team. It didn't happen.
Ferguson had immense faith in Scholes and Giggs. So much so, it didn't curtail after that abomination of a title run in. Not even after a full summer in which we could have improved the midfield. He even brought Paul back in the fold.
We got to the point whereby form didn't really matter all that much. We didn't have a proper first team, we had no interest in one, and I attribute that to the contract decline in our cup success. We'd play big matches as if they were an experiment. Nani and Anderson were only part of a much bigger issue.
If you read this then well done to you.
I literally check into redcafe every hour to see if this guy has signed for us.
My first muppet summer and its really beginning to grate
My first muppet summer and its really beginning to grate
I didnt mean you should tell the name but why would his word be reliable?
Always has been before. For what it's worth I asked him earlier today because of the Arsenal rumours, said there was no new news.
Really need this guy to sign!
Cech is 33?
Has he signed yet? whats the latest news/gossip?
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