who cares about carricks range of passing, he's got different qualities, the number of nonsensical comments comparing these two is worrying. Keane and Carrick were also different players.. and I also think we finally need some hard man. His defensive work is on different level than Carrick's. Schenid's not a bad passer at all, good enough for manutd with his top defensive attributes to his game..
Morgan Schneiderlin | BBC: Morgan Schneiderlin is currently having a medical at Manchester United.
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in a possession system and if you want to play as a SINGLE pivot, people will care about your controlling from deep with passes. You can get away a bit if part of the double
just because we play this now doesn't mean we will play this further van Gaal's time here.. take in notice he plays with players in disposal, Schneiderlin would be an upgrade on what we have now, (surely a lot of people won't agree, we all know who's the half god here) we have got too many creative players but not many who likes to win the ball we'd be all secured in defense, hard tackling midfielder who can fight for the team and is pretty good on the ball, is what we're missing. Carrick's 34 and quite injury prone lately, we're forming new team, he shouldn't be the man to build team around... and there are not many direct replacements.. of what I know..
We will see who it will be in the summer
Its actually not. It may look that way to some as he's a more combative player visually but Carricks defensive side is top class always has been.
The fact that he doesn't throw himself around the pitch has always seemed to annoy some people to the extend they tend ignore what he does do. Carrick is the type you tend to appreciate more when you see him live. The off the ball stuff is what always stood out for me personally.
M1y2 seems to have a personal vendetta against Carrick so it would explain those posts. You most definitely need a strong range of passing, it's one of the many reasons why we struggle so much without Carrick. Schneiderlin's is probably good enough, but I think we'd need someone more creative/competent on the ball to replace Fellaini also, just so we don't continue to become unstuck by teams who sit as deep and absorb pressure.
Completely agree. Carrick is an exceptional user of defensive work with positional play. Blocking paths with his positioning and reading interception opportunities because of it rather than needing to make challenges - both the Hargreaves niggling ones or the block busting variety.
have you seen him live? I always wonder how he moves on the pitch
I already stated in this thread that Schneiderlin would be a great signing. But some of the above simply isn't true. The team will learn to cope without Carrick long term. But saying Schneiderlin is better defensively is utter nonsense.
Look at the facts.... Southampton over the last 2 seasons have played with sometimes 3 but nearly always 2 defensive mind midfielders. Wagnama and Cork (I know hes since left). Carrick has had nobody other than a badly faded Fletcher and certainly nobody on a consistent basis.
Another very odd crusade against Carrick...
How do you manage to be so consistently wrong about everything?
I have indeed. Movement wise Id say he's proactive defensively rather reactive. He anticipates danger before it occurs. Positionally he's genuinely world class imo. Obviously he could be a bit quicker and Id love to see his long range passing a bit more but I think he sacrifices some of that to operate with more discipline in the role he plays for us.
I never said he's bad defensively, he reads the game well but to say he's top class in defensive work is just pathetic.. just because he plays deep doesn't make him defensive midfielder, he's more of a deep laying play maker but you know this, I don't like when people are praising players for what they are not, he's different rather elegant approach to his defensive game and his stats are pretty average in that sense.. even someone as offensive as Herrera doubles in one game what Carrick has in in two.. and it's just stats, there is also things like pressing ability, mobility, never ending closing down which doesn't give other players' time to do anything, we're still very shaky on counters would never happen with Schneiderlin. when we have ball it's different story. Carrick pings the ball around with ease..
but a hard man is pretty much the first thing we need now
what's so everything I am wrong about? who choose what's wrong and right? if anything it's matter of opinion.. people forget about it.
I just prefer different type of player and personally whilst I enjoy seeing Carrick on top of his game I can't wait to see him being replaced to be proven right we can do as good as with him in the side. Not with Blind though, it was clear from the day one he's not his successor..
But it all depends on which player which player we acquire in the summer..
My dream signing of the window.
ticks so many boxes that we need right now.
but it probably makes too much sense and therefore wont happen
ticks so many boxes that we need right now.
but it probably makes too much sense and therefore wont happen
We haven't been linked with him, but people seem to forget we have a manager who has an awful lot of sense in to what he needs in his squad. Hes already said we need another defensive midfielder and talked about balance in midfield, so I wouldn't be suprised if we have an eye an him, even if he isn't the one we go for.
You are clearly one those people who is anti-Carrick due to the fact that he isn't a "hard man".
Defensive work isn't solely based on breaking people up, Especially as the game itself continues to evolve. Id argue what Carrick has is far more rare than what a hatchet man brings to the role. Not many defensive midfielder get nominated for PFA player of the season...
Using the word pathetic is rather ironic given your stance here....
was a strong word yeah but the amount of praise he's getting for his defensive work is ridiculous, but that's just me I "apparently hate" him and I only played as CM for 15 years. Tbf his "silent domination" is better than Rooney's up front..
And why do we make Schneiderlin thread the thread about Carrick? You talking about hatchet man but in case of Schneid he's much more than hatchet man
Interception is also a good defensive work. Preventing a pass also.
Carrick is one of the most inteligient players i have ever seen when it comes to defending.
I agree with this even if others don't, Carrick is still top quality but we need fresh blood in his position, if we go into next season where we have much more games to play with carrick as our main DM and blind to cover we will be screwed.
Blind should be used as a utility player
Schnederlain should be our new DM
And carrick to come in and play cup games and the odd prem game.
Don't agree. Even if Schneiderlin was brought in, he isn't better than Carrick, and he'd be an ideal partner for him if anything.
Aye, Carrick should still play every match he is fit for. Schneiderlin is a great b2ber and would really solidify our midfield alongside Carrick. It would allow Ander then some more freedom or even allow Di Maria or Mata to play centrally. As for eventually replacing Carrick I think Schneiderlin is also a great candidate for that. He doesn't have as good passing and ability to control the ball but it is going to be impossible to get a like for like replacement for Carrick. Schneiderlin will offer a more physical presence which Carrick doesn't and could allow us to then replace Fellaini with someone like Gundogan to bring the ability to control the midfield. The only thing then is how important Fellaini's height is to van Gaal as he has brought it up many times, although he can just be brought in for games where van Gaal thinks it will be an issue.
Neither was Carrick at 25, he will still as Spurs learning..
Yeah but our preferred formation we only play with one DM so there wouldn't be place for both, I love carrick but we should really be looking to the future now. Carrick doesn't have long left and it'd be silly to let him leave and just throw someone else into his position. Schneiderlain could learn a lot from carrick.
van Gaal has talked about how the 433 can be played with 1 or 2 deep midfielders so it is easily interchangeable.
I remember we played 433 as -_-, ---, and _-_ in 30min spells a couple of seasons back in a pre-season - confused the merry hell out of the opposition.
He is though, he's miles more effective even if Carrick is still clearly the better passer. If thats all thats important then Scholes would still be playing for us
You severely under rate Carrick.
No, you're severely underrating Schneiderlin.
With all due respect, you've said on numerous occasions you rate Blind ahead of Carrick.
Schneiderlein isn't in Carricks class. Carrick has been the main man in Uniteds midfield for years.
I said I prefered Blind to Carrick in the beginning of the season, but he's had too many performances where his passing was in the 70s% accuracy and some off days. Obviously I dont feel that way anymore, not enough consistancy in his good performances as the season went on
Carrick is allowed to play by Fellaini and Ander high pressing in front of him and doing most of the defensive work before he has to do anything. He gets all the credit, but its those players that are allowing a Carrick who doesnt do what he used to, to still play in a working team. Schneiderlin wouldnt need others to facilitate him. As a younger, fitter, more physical player who is currently better than Carrick in a more robust set of skills he'd obviously be an improvement overall. We may still miss Carrick's passing, because thats certainly better than Schneiderlin's, but thats a style preference. The better player is obviously the one that is better in the most important areas and theres only one winner there.
I think he'd do well for us or Arsenal.
Not good enough.
Care to expand?
His knowledge isn't good enough, hence his rubbish post.
The Snide is very good for Saints in big games against top teams so there is potential for more development when he moves to a bigger club.
I'd love him here. He's such a good and intelligent player and an excellent replacement for Carrick. I have to say I wasn't expecting him to be this much of a beast when I saw him in his League 1 days. Obviously everyone knew he was a talented kid considering he had just left a Ligue 1 club but I didn't see him progressing to the heights he's reached. I'd argue he's even better than his former teammate Oxlade-Chamberlain at the moment.
His passing is simply not good enough, based on the (admittedly) few times I have watched them. Also tends to stray from position far too often and makes misjudged passes from time to time. Not a patch on Carrick, whose composure is evident and influencing.
Yeah because Carrick didn't train under LvG till October, and he showed why LvG missed him as soon as he returned
About your second point, how about you think from another angle, that the presence Carrick actually allows both two to be aggressively pushing and pressing with no fear of allowing space behind. That's actually a principle of defending, to condense space between the midfield and the defense. There needs to be someone behind the pressing midfielders to cover the lanes, win the loose ball and immediately transition to a new attack with precise passing. Otherwise there are two cases here: the central defenders have to push ridiculously high to defend, or there will be a large gap between the pressing guys and the defenders. This is not about who needs whom to perform, it's about a playing method, simple and clear. If you want to talk about a player who needs to rely on others to do the defending job, Andrea Pirlo should be the example, not Michael Carrick.
Ridiculous. Carrick has pretty much mastered the #6 role. 100% defensive discipline. Always in the right place, always cutting off the angles for the opposition to play through us. There's a reason why we look so bloody solid when he's in the side. Add to this superb composure and an excellent range of passing and you have a wonderfully effective player playing in the absolute perfect role for him.
FWIW I like Schneiderlinn and have been hoping we'd sign him for a couple of seasons now. He'd be a very good signing. But it would be a blatant lie to say he is more effective or influential than Carrick.
Such silliness. Easily good enough.
Granted he's not got the passing range of Carrick but he's hardly a poor passer who regularly turns over the ball. Would be a brilliant signing for us.
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