Morgan Schneiderlin | BBC: Morgan Schneiderlin is currently having a medical at Manchester United.

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Red Hand Devil said:
Agree with all that Stone, but i'd like to add - Carrick's a world-class passer, something Makelele could only dream of being. He didnt have to be though, he was best in the world in the role he did for Real & France.

It was unbelievable the way Makelele was treated at Real too. The hierarchy wouldnt acknowledge his importance to the success of the team, but i can guarantee you - the players most likely thought he was in their top 3 most important players at that time.

Many neutrals (i'm not really a neutral btw - f*ckin hate Real) would have him in their top 3 for sure, as i would too..
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Yeah, Zidane said in public that "it doesn't help to add another layer of gold paint to the Bentley if you remove its engine".
 
Schneiderlin is not Makelele, far from it.

I don't think he as good as his hype goes...
 
Carrick this, Carrick that, grown men making pointless arguments. Does anyone of you remember how Carrick was at the age of 25? He never had this style of control and passing at that age, he developed it over time. As much as i rate him, he's now 33, is picking up injuries frequently, so, we should be looking for replacements and this guy fits the bill, passing range or not. He's 25, and is one of the best defensive midfielders in the league, only behind Matic in my opinion. Just because Carrick is an important player for us doesn't mean he's suddenly irreplaceable, he easily is and we should be thinking about gradually replacing him NOW for obvious reasons. Schneiderlin is a fine player, defensively sound, adept at breaking up play and is a fine passer, at 25, there's still room for improvement, and I think he also qualifies as a homegrown player bcos he moved to Sotton as a teenager. This signing makes too much sense, hence, I don't see it happening. We'll now probably spunk 50m on Strootman and hope he recovers from injury.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Schneiderlin is not Makelele, far from it.

I don't think he as good as his hype goes...
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I don't think there's anyone hyping him, he's a player that will fit into what the team needs right now.
 
legball said:
I don't think there's anyone hyping him, he's a player that will fit into what the team needs right now.
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Comparing him to Makelele or Carrick in the thread. Schneiderlin doesn't have Carrick's passing range and vision and I don't think he will develop that.

And no, Carrick was not at the same level when he was 25, he had better distribution, could control the tempo and made a great partnership with Scholes. He fitted right in. Schneiderlin doesn't read the game at the same level.

I'd much rather pay a bit more for Vidal rather than buy Schneiderlin.
 
sorry, he was an absolute key man for Spurs challenging a top 4 spot at that time. there's a reason he was brought to United by SAF and never looked back since.

legball said:
Does anyone of you remember how Carrick was at the age of 25? He never had this style of control and passing at that age, he developed it over time
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legball said:
I don't think there's anyone hyping him, he's a player that will fit into what the team needs right now.
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Three definitely plenty of people hyping him as a must buy sort of player. Whether they're unjustified in saying that I don't know.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Schneiderlin is not Makelele, far from it.

I don't think he as good as his hype goes...
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No-one has said so. Makelele was used as an example of a player who was underrated because he played in a position that meant that he didn't get the recognition he deserved. That was in response to people saying Carrick was often the first to get dropped in muppet midfields posted here on the Caf.
 
Red Stone said:
No-one has said so. Makelele was used as an example of a player who was underrated because he played in a position that meant that he didn't get the recognition he deserved. That was in response to people saying Carrick was often the first to get dropped in muppet midfields posted here on the Caf.
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Makelele was underrated because of a plethora of star names in that Galactico's team. Schneiderlin plays alongside Tadic, Fonte, Jay Rodriguez, Long and Wayniama. They are good players don't get me wrong, but not Zidane, Beckham, Ronaldo and the likes..

Carrick was essential for Spurs and then for us in CL and PL winning team alongside Scholes at around the same age Schneiderlin is. The latter has a good 7-8 years in front of him, but he's closer to being a finished article in terms of playing style rather to develop all Carrick's qualities mentioned here. I don't think he'll improve us all that much to be honest, certainly not at the same level as Pogba, Verratti, Vidal, Schweinsteiger and all the similar players we are or should be linked with.
 
Red Hand Devil said:
Agree with all that Stone, but i'd like to add - Carrick's a world-class passer, something Makelele could only dream of being. He didnt have to be though, he was best in the world in the role he did for Real & France.

It was unbelievable the way Makelele was treated at Real too. The hierarchy wouldnt acknowledge his importance to the success of the team, but i can guarantee you - the players most likely thought he was in their top 3 most important players at that time.

Many neutrals (i'm not really a neutral btw - f*ckin hate Real) would have him in their top 3 for sure, as i would too..
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If I was to do an XI of best players I've seen Makelele would definitely be in it. Ridiculously effective.
 
lol I knew someone would go down that road. Yes of course we were all frustrated with midfield under the later fergie years but...

Fergie always knew when to sign the right man for the right job. We wouldn't be singing '20 times' if he hadn't. Robson declined, he signed Ince, Keane overtook them both and Carrick was a masterstroke. My point about Schneiderlin is he is just what we need AND what Arsenal need. And Fergie wouldn't let Arsenal beat us to him.
 
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I'm not as convinced by others he's as good as he's made out. He's rarely the #6, Wanyama is. He plays a sort of defensive box to box role.

I think Wanyama is the better of the two, but Schneiderlein is more action. Schneiderlein could never put in a performance like Wanyama did against Barcelona. If we were to take one of them off of Southampton, I'd rather Wanyama.
 
Bwuk said:
I'm not as convinced by others he's as good as he's made out. He's rarely the #6, Wanyama is. He plays a sort of defensive box to box role.

I think Wanyama is the better of the two, but Schneiderlein is more action. Schneiderlein could never put in a performance like Wanyama did against Barcelona. If we were to take one of them off of Southampton, I'd rather Wanyama.
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Nah, hes better than Wanyama, very good when he plays for France.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Comparing him to Makelele or Carrick in the thread. Schneiderlin doesn't have Carrick's passing range and vision and I don't think he will develop that.

And no, Carrick was not at the same level when he was 25, he had better distribution, could control the tempo and made a great partnership with Scholes. He fitted right in. Schneiderlin doesn't read the game at the same level.

I'd much rather pay a bit more for Vidal rather than buy Schneiderlin.
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Such a bullshit, Schneiderlin is just different type of player, he reads the game excellently, I never go for statistics but in this case, some numbers from WHOSCORED:

Carrick: INTERCEPTIONS: 1,4 TACKLES: 1,7
Matić: INTERCEPTIONS: 2 TACKLES: 4
Schneiderlin: INTERCEPTIONS: 2,6 TACKLES: 3,7
Coqeulin: INTERCEPTIONS: 3,4 TACKLES: 3,1
Herrera: INTERCEPTIONS: 2 TACKLES: 2,8

Carrick's better passer that's for sure and his composure and calmness and consistency makes him great player but in terms of defensive work he's nowhere near Schneiderlin or other players, he reads the game really well but his tidy approach doesn't make him that effective in that matter. When we have the ball he's excellent player to have in front of the defense to ping the ball around but when we need to defend, he's sometimes too passive. Our defensive play has lacked some mobility and strength over this year. I thought it was obvious, whether it was Blind or Carrick...

That's why such fuss about this player, he is exactly what we need and would be a big upgrade in our midfield no matter what his name is or from which team he comes from.. people tend to be biased when comes to names and club legends..
 
m1y2 said:
Such a bullshit, Schneiderlin is just different type of player, he reads the game excellently, I never go for statistics but in this case, some numbers from WHOSCORED:

Carrick: INTERCEPTIONS: 1,4 TACKLES: 1,7
Matić: INTERCEPTIONS: 2 TACKLES: 4
Schneiderlin: INTERCEPTIONS: 2,6 TACKLES: 3,7
Coqeulin: INTERCEPTIONS: 3,4 TACKLES: 3,1
Herrera: INTERCEPTIONS: 2 TACKLES: 2,8

Carrick's better passer that's for sure and his composure and calmness and consistency makes him great player but in terms of defensive work he's nowhere near Schneiderlin or other players, he reads the game really well but his tidy approach doesn't make him that effective in that matter. When we have the ball he's excellent player to have in front of the defense to ping the ball around but when we need to defend, he's sometimes too passive. Our defensive play has lacked some mobility and strength over this year. I thought it was obvious, whether it was Blind or Carrick...

That's why such fuss about this player, he is exactly what we need and would be a big upgrade in our midfield no matter what his name is or from which team he comes from.. people tend to be biased when comes to names and club legends..
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He's exactly what we need. Fergie would have signed him. He would!
 
Bwuk said:
I'm not as convinced by others he's as good as he's made out. He's rarely the #6, Wanyama is. He plays a sort of defensive box to box role.

I think Wanyama is the better of the two, but Schneiderlein is more action. Schneiderlein could never put in a performance like Wanyama did against Barcelona. If we were to take one of them off of Southampton, I'd rather Wanyama.
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I do think he is a little bit overrated around these parts and that while he makes a bunch of tackles he does not really play as a #6. But, I definitely disagree about Wanyawa being better who is a player that is even more overrated.
 
Red Stone said:
I call it Makelele Syndrome. Florentino Perez produced this gem after Makelele had left Real Madrid:

"We will not miss Makélelé. His technique is average, he lacks the speed and skill to take the ball past opponents, and ninety percent of his distribution either goes backwards or sideways. He wasn't a header of the ball and he rarely passed the ball more than three metres. Younger players will arrive who will cause Makélelé to be forgotten."

I feel like Carrick is in the same mold in a lot of ways. He doesn't bring attention to himself on the pitch, because he's not flashy or doing anything outrageous with the ball. If you pay special attention to him his contribution is obvious, but it's much easier to look for the more eye-catching players like Di Maria, Herrera or Mata. Defensive midfield is a painfully under-appreciated position if you do it well. Running around like a maniac and making crazy tackles looks great, but if a player is smart, he'll do an even better job by intercepting play and cutting off passing lanes, but it will look as if he's just sort of... there, and not really exerting himself.
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Nah, Makelele and carrick were different in their application of their defensive work. While carrick has been a good shield for our defence, Makelele was an amazing shield. He literally covered the whole area in front of his defence, something carrick never had the athleticism of doing. Honestly, if carrick could defend like Makelele he'd have 100 caps by now.
 
m1y2 said:
Such a bullshit, Schneiderlin is just different type of player, he reads the game excellently, I never go for statistics but in this case, some numbers from WHOSCORED:

Carrick: INTERCEPTIONS: 1,4 TACKLES: 1,7
Matić: INTERCEPTIONS: 2 TACKLES: 4
Schneiderlin: INTERCEPTIONS: 2,6 TACKLES: 3,7
Coqeulin: INTERCEPTIONS: 3,4 TACKLES: 3,1
Herrera: INTERCEPTIONS: 2 TACKLES: 2,8

Carrick's better passer that's for sure and his composure and calmness and consistency makes him great player but in terms of defensive work he's nowhere near Schneiderlin or other players, he reads the game really well but his tidy approach doesn't make him that effective in that matter. When we have the ball he's excellent player to have in front of the defense to ping the ball around but when we need to defend, he's sometimes too passive. Our defensive play has lacked some mobility and strength over this year. I thought it was obvious, whether it was Blind or Carrick...

That's why such fuss about this player, he is exactly what we need and would be a big upgrade in our midfield no matter what his name is or from which team he comes from.. people tend to be biased when comes to names and club legends..
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Stats are not everything. According to your stats Coquelin and Schneiderlin read the game better than Carrick and Herrera, which having watched the 4 of them I beg to differ.

Also we're playing possession football this season most of the time, while Soton most of the time defend, hence Schneiderlin will have better stats than Carrick and Herrera.

Also you don't need to intercept or tackle to slow down an attack, something Carrick is very good at, but doesn't show on stats.

Schneiderlin will be an upgrade to Blind, but compared to other top players in his position, he's like a poor's man Matic - very good player and consistent but not world class at his position, something we should be aiming at.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Nah, Makelele and carrick were different in their application of their defensive work. While carrick has been a good shield for our defence, Makelele was an amazing shield. He literally covered the whole area in front of his defence, something carrick never had the athleticism of doing. Honestly, if carrick could defend like Makelele he'd have 100 caps by now.
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Regardless whether he could defend like a classic Makelele, he should have had twice or three times the number of caps. Having Rio and Terry, not some cute little minions in defense, a Makelele destroyer did not matter that much
 
darioterios said:
sorry, he was an absolute key man for Spurs challenging a top 4 spot at that time. there's a reason he was brought to United by SAF and never looked back since.
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He definitely was not as good as he was now then, stop trying to act like being a key man for Spurs is the same thing as being that at United. Going by these kind of logic, we shouldn't have signed Carrick, as we were looking for Keane replacement, and Carrick wasn't as good.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Comparing him to Makelele or Carrick in the thread. Schneiderlin doesn't have Carrick's passing range and vision and I don't think he will develop that.

And no, Carrick was not at the same level when he was 25, he had better distribution, could control the tempo and made a great partnership with Scholes. He fitted right in. Schneiderlin doesn't read the game at the same level.

I'd much rather pay a bit more for Vidal rather than buy Schneiderlin.
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No, am not comparing both players at 25, am comparing Carrick at 25 and now, and he clearly was not this influential player we have now. I'll gladly have Vidal, but he's a different kind of player, Vidal is a box to box player, and it's not one or the other, we can sign 2 different types of midfielders.
 
I remember this kind of argument going on when Modric was at Spurs, oh, he's not as good as Scholes, why sign him, etc. Then he goes to Madrid [an arguably better club] becomes a key man there, then suddenly everyone wants him.
 
This makes so much sense and it's exactly the reason it won't happen. It would be nice to sign some more players that we actually need, Depay was a good start in that direction.
 
legball said:
He definitely was not as good as he was now then, stop trying to act like being a key man for Spurs is the same thing as being that at United. Going by these kind of logic, we shouldn't have signed Carrick, as we were looking for Keane replacement, and Carrick wasn't as good.
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A deep playmaker gets better with age, this is a position where using head and experience wins you battles. Do you want to state that because Carrick was able to step up, Schneiderlin will be able to handle the same?
 
darioterios said:
Regardless whether he could defend like a classic Makelele, he should have had twice or three times the number of caps. Having Rio and Terry, not some cute little minions in defense, a Makelele destroyer did not matter that much
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He couldn't hence he was ignored. United fans like to talk about carrick as if he's some faultless holding midfielder but he isn't. He's never been. Should he have more caps? Maybe, but the honest truth is he never kept his place in the england national team.
 
legball said:
I remember this kind of argument going on when Modric was at Spurs, oh, he's not as good as Scholes, why sign him, etc. Then he goes to Madrid [an arguably better club] becomes a key man there, then suddenly everyone wants him.
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True. I'd been singing that Modric is world class for ages and people kept coming up with reasons why he's not. Now everyone reckons he's a top 3 midfielder in the world.

It seems people are incapable of judging a player outside of the capabilities of the team they play for. He'd be a class signing for us, and more than good enough to take over from carrick. The only reason I can see that can justify not signing him is if we can convince PSG to sell us Verratti.
 
peterstorey said:
Carrick at 25 was a far better player than Schneiderlein will ever be.
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Carrick at 26 to his early 30's, guided us to 4 league titles, an FA cup final, a CL victory, 2 league cup finals and two other 2 other CL finals....One we would have made a better contest in if Hargreaves and Fletcher were fit...The other, if he didn't have to carry Giggs through the whole match.

When Pete is not ripping the piss, he's 100% bang on....And in this case, he is.

Would not wanna see Schneiderlein at United
 
Archie Leach said:
Wasn't Carrick pretty hit and miss for a few seasons? I remember a megathread on here that was basically a bitch-fest about him called "Wherefore art thou Michael Carrick" or something.
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Yeah definitely. For a lot of his seasons he's either been a good supporting midfielder, or patchy/timid in between. The season when he won player of the year a few seasons back was when he made a big step up. Sadly, he's either he's been injured a lot since, and hence either been very good the little he's played (this season) or poor (last season).

Overall he's been quality for us given being a support midfielder is also important but he's not actually had loads of seasons of top performances, as his importance to the team would suggest. But we've been so bare in that department that he's become this important.
 
darioterios said:
A deep playmaker gets better with age, this is a position where using head and experience wins you battles. Do you want to state that because Carrick was able to step up, Schneiderlin will be able to handle the same?
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Yes, that's my point. I think he can step up and improve. He's 25 for crying out loud.
 
.Rossi said:
Carrick at 26 to his early 30's, guided us to 4 league titles, an FA cup final, a CL victory, 2 league cup finals and two other 2 other CL finals....One we would have made a better contest in if Hargreaves and Fletcher were fit...The other, if he didn't have to carry Giggs through the whole match.

When Pete is not ripping the piss, he's 100% bang on....And in this case, he is.

Would not wanna see Schneiderlein at United
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Lol, he didn't guide us to anything. Stop exaggerating mate, he was a solid part of a successful team. We had players like Scholes, Ronaldo, Rooney, VDS who were far more influencial, yeah, he guided us indeed.
 
Modric at Spurs was a far better player than Schneiderlein ffs.
 
Bwuk said:
Modric at Spurs was a far better player than Schneiderlein ffs.
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That's the point, at that time though, it didn't stop posters here comparing him to Scholes and saying he wasn't good enough for us.
 
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