Morgan Schneiderlin | BBC: Morgan Schneiderlin is currently having a medical at Manchester United.
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This is the guy I want.
Not a signing that would make the World stop like Bale or Ronaldo probably would, but a very underrated player who is the sort of player every successful team needs.
I also think many people underrate the importance of PL experience.
Not a signing that would make the World stop like Bale or Ronaldo probably would, but a very underrated player who is the sort of player every successful team needs.
I also think many people underrate the importance of PL experience.
Simply not true at all Keane always found his man, always!
Id be happy with either Schneiderlin or Gundogan.
I think we need both.
PL experience is neither here nor there. The question is, does he have the capacity to perform of a club at this magnitude and be an integral part of a team that is looking to dominate at both home and abroad?
Playing at Saints in the premiership doesn't make him a more worthy buy than say someone that has played in La Liga, Bundesliga or even eastern europe.
FWIW I like Schneiderlin but it isn't because he's succeeded in the Premiership. We definitely need to up our game in signing unheralded players and turning them into key performers, I miss the days of signing Vidic, Evra, Carrick.
I don't know about Vidic or Evra, but Carrick certainly wasn't "unheralded" before signing for United. He was a star player at Spurs.
He was still a player who hadn't played at the highest level internationally i.e. he wasn't a regular for England, I agree everyone was aware he was a key player at Spurs but it was still a very good signing and not a complete no brainer i.e. Rooney post Euro 2004.
It's a completely different subject, so I will keep this brief:
Non-PL proven players always represent a risk. Shevchenko couldn't cut it here, nor Ballack. Veron had troubles. di Maria hasn't settled yet. Falcao.
When you buy a player like that there's always that chance. With Schneiderlain the biggest question would be if he can step up a level. But I'm confident he would. Schneiderlain for me would be a Carrickesque signing. Certainly won't gain as much attention as when Chelsea or Arsenal sign a player from Madrid, but would probably be looked back on as the best signing of the window in a few years time.
For me any player that is not playing at a top club represents a risk of some sort regardless of the club they're operating at.
Di Maria has failed not because he was in a La Liga side, but because tactically he doesn't quite fit here. On paper, he is a very premiership type of player.. not very big in terms of keeping the ball, very box to box in terms of style and super direct.
Berbatov was prem proven and a disaster. Torres, prem proven and a disaster at Chelsea.
Veron was simply slow as feck and would have struggled no matter what, if we had signed Nedved that same season he would have become one of the biggest legends this club has ever had because he was the type of player that would have fit this club like a glove and as for Falcao/shevchenko both were past their peak and shot, by the time they came to the Premiership.
Prem proven is a myth, if Schneiderlin is a success here it is because he is a damn good player not because he was proven in the premier league first.
The list of established PL players failing at another PL club is FAR shorter than those who flop after arriving from a different league. There's an established, proven benefit in signing players that have already proven themselves in the league. The fact a minority don't work out is irrelevant. Don't know how anyone can argue otherwise.
FWIW, I also think this bloke would be a great signing for any top club and is exactly what we need now Carrick's on the wane (in terms of injury resistance, if not performances)
If we don't go in for him one of the other big boys will. He'll be a great signing for one of the Top 4 this summer.
The number of Premier League players out there who can take United to the level of a Barca/Bayern/Real.. is very small. Are you saying you would pass up on a Neymar level talent from the Brazillian league who is starring for his country purely because he isn't prem proven for a Valencia type player who is excelling at Wigan?
Guys like Valencia, Fellaini, Young.. prem proven but it means feck all if those players are not of the requisite quality. Guys like Ronaldo, Hazard came from the french and portguese leagues, talent is out there.. it doesn't need to be from the prem or play in the prem first to be worth buying.
If someone is already a top quality player, or is demonstrating the capacity to feature at the very highest level and has played in the Prem already, yeah fine.. of course there is a benefit there but when are you going to be able to buy players of Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal or Liverpool? Prem players of Champions League challenging quality are very few and far between.
Quality, tactical fit and the mentality to play for the biggest club in the world needs to be main attribute we look for in recruitment, not if they have only proven they can handle the premiership - that is not the be all and end all in determining whether we should go in for a player.
'PL proven' is one of the biggest hipster bollox i have heard. Its no different than 'Bundesliga proven' or 'La Liga proven'.
Looks good to me.
DM - Schneiderlin/Carrick
CM - Herrera/Gundogan
Looks good to me.
DM - Schneiderlin/Carrick
CM - Herrera/Gundogan
'PL proven' is one of the biggest hipster bollox i have heard. Its no different than 'Bundesliga proven' or 'La Liga proven'.
Looks good to me.
DM - Schneiderlin/Carrick
CM - Herrera/Gundogan
Carrick-Herrera-Gundogan-Schneiderlin-Blind and Fellaini are fantastic options to have, add Perreira when Carrick retires and we're set for years.
"Prem proven" does not simply mean "adapted to Prem-style football", it also means "adapted well to life in England and feeling settled here" (as distinct from pining for the fjords from whence they came). To deny that this is a significant consideration is just foolish.
Its not a myth at all. If a player like that comes here from Southampton he has proven to the club that he has what it takes to play in the PL already.
The reality is that even where a league can be compared to the Pl in terms of standard - i.e. Germany, Spain, Italy or to a lesser extent France, they are different. Certain attributes in the PL are more useful than in Spain - for example a player in Spain may need to be more technically gifted than a PL player, but likewise, said Spanish player may not have the physicality to come to the PL and be a success.
Obviously ability is the main attribute you need in a player but other things pay a part. A skilful player like Hazard is such a succes here in part because of his skill and in part because he gets up after getting kicked umpteen times a game. Arsenal had Reyes who was technically excellent but went missing in games when he got a kick. Its horses for courses and not all players settle into a different league - there's different weather, a different language and other personal issues to eontend with. They're not robots, and these things have an effect.
No player is ever a guarantee, but by buying a player who you deem to have the ability - but who is settled in the Country, who knows the tempo of the game here and has played against the other players in the league you reduce the number of variables. They're more likely to come in and adjust quickly. I dont see how you can logically argue otherwise. I suspect if I asked you to move to another country and do the same job it might take you a while to adjust. - if you could at all. The way they do that job might be different and the skills you have might be less relevant.
Obviously we need to buy the best players we can, but this is a consideration and a factor to consider.
Sure when you put it that way it makes sense. The 'PL proven badge' is still a bit overrated though. I look at every other club in every other league and there are some signings that fail and some that don't. There's just not enough evidence that it plays a major role. There are players like Veron, Shevchenko, Forlan who never made it. Then there's Silva, Mata, Torres, Cazorla, Costa etc who performed right from the get go. And then there's also inter league transfers like Barry, Torres, Konchesky, Johnson etc who do well at one club but struggle at another. The style of play between clubs is also different. Arsenal play a different style to Chelsea, who play a different style to us, who play a different style to City/Liverpool etc. Some players might be suited more to a certain style. Overall there's just not enough documented evidence that the PL proven badge makes that much of a difference.
Agree with all of this.
It's significantly different, for obvious reasons.
Keane was one of the best passers in the game
Schneiderlin is a decent player who would do a job for a top club, ideally you'd want a bit more quality and certainly wouldn't want to be paying more than about £15m.
how can anyone question his ability, he's top4 material. Just because he's different type to carrick doesn't make him inferior, he's better IMO on level with Matic. If he didn't play for saints and say for PSG, Chelsea, Arsenal, he would be certainly mentioned among the best defensive midfielders in the world..
If Arsenal go for him, they will destroy the league..
But it's us who needs this guy the most, tough guy who will cover for defense, with Blind it's quite pathetic at times and Carrick with his lack of speed and immobility always makes me feel worried when we chase the ball or play in high tempo games..
If Arsenal go for him, they will destroy the league..
But it's us who needs this guy the most, tough guy who will cover for defense, with Blind it's quite pathetic at times and Carrick with his lack of speed and immobility always makes me feel worried when we chase the ball or play in high tempo games..
If you're buying players at 2005 rates then you're right.
He will be more than £15m more likely 20-25. I actually think he is going to end up at your lot.
I'm completely on board with acquiring Schneiderlin.
For me, being "prem proven" is a plus, but the open question is whether he can handle going from a big club to a massive club. I think he can, but I don't know that. Every new player represents a risk. See Berbatov and Veron.
The good news for Morgan is that no one would expect him to carry the full load right away, as we was the case with Berbatov and Veron. He'd work with Carrick, who will still be the first name in midfield next season.
For me, being "prem proven" is a plus, but the open question is whether he can handle going from a big club to a massive club. I think he can, but I don't know that. Every new player represents a risk. See Berbatov and Veron.
The good news for Morgan is that no one would expect him to carry the full load right away, as we was the case with Berbatov and Veron. He'd work with Carrick, who will still be the first name in midfield next season.
Are we actually linked with this guy?
I'd sign him over Gundogan
He's been linked with Arsenal for the longest. Also linked with Spurs, to a smaller extent. We're mentioned in some articles and so are Chelsea, probably just because we have money.
We were in the past. To be fair, most rumours regarding us will probably mean nothing as last summer has proven. If anything you'll hear something substantial a few days before it happens. Memphis being the only exception I think.
I bet he doesnt Wenger wont do that to coquelin. Said similar also in recent weeks.
They are like chalk and cheese.
I cant see why he would cost any less than £30 million. There's a reasonable argument that he'd get into every midfield in the country with only Matic being picked before him
Yeah I was being conservative tbh, also I heard the fee quoted for him so far have been about £25m.
Probably jump to 30m if we got involved though
For me, it's a no brainer that we should be going after him this summer. Southampton will be willing to sell, he wants to leave, he's at the right age, and he has been one of the best players at his position in the league. A position where we need to improve (or future replacement for Carrick).
He might not be a 'muppet signing' but he's absolutely ideal for what we need. I'll gutted if he ends up at one of our rivals.
He's not at his best holding in midfield as a #6. He is at best as a all round #8 or shuttler with a DM behind.
Dunnno why many refer to him as a number 6.
Dunnno why many refer to him as a number 6.
He did a great job before they signed Wanyama
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