Trade deadline acquisition? Probably.
Only was ever this excited for Miggy. I thought the Tigers were going to win the World Series that year. Oops
Magglio was another I was overjoyed with
Astros v Cubs for the 2018 World Series
MLB 2014
- Thread starter Feeky Magee
- Start date
Trade deadline acquisition? Probably.
Only was ever this excited for Miggy. I thought the Tigers were going to win the World Series that year. Oops
Magglio was another I was overjoyed with
Astros v Cubs for the 2018 World Series
What exactly is so amusing about that?Da Cubs?!?
These ain't the Cubs of your childhood. They're run by smart people and have by far the best farm in baseball.
Soler RF Almora CF Schwarber LF
Bryant 3B Russell SS Baez 2B Rizzo 1B
Castillo/Someone else C
Jake Arrieta has been one of the best starting pitchers in baseball, and the rest of the rotation can be built through free agency (where they've generally been shrewd - Hammel etc.), the farm where the likes of CJ Edwards have a definite shot, and trading away potential surplus pieces like Alcantara, Castro, McKinney etc.
Next year's draft is huge for the Astros after what happened with this one
It doesn't work out like that. Can't just pencil in prospects for positions years down the line.
The point is that that's a team without any free agent signings or anything. If even half of them make it, that's the nucleus of a great team for f*ck-all in salary. And for what it's worth, you can pretty much pencil in some of them. Bryant will be a star. Russell is a no-shit shortstop who will hit too. Rizzo we already know is great. Soler has absolutely torched every level of the minors and is signed mega-cheap until 2020. Schwarber's hit-tool is pretty automatically MLB-level at least. They have a surplus too. That team I put up doesn't even have Alcantara who is already hitting well above league-average at MLB with plus defence at 2B, or Castro who's hitting above league-average at MLB with plus shortstop defence.
Current wRC+s/level (100 is league average, every point above that = 1% above average)
Soler 197 AAA (after 263 (!) at AA)
Bryant 169 AAA (after putting up at least 209 at every other stop)
Russell 164 AA
Rizzo 152 MLB
McKinney 137 A+
Schwarber 130 A+ (after 196 at A and 396 briefly at A-)
Alcantara 113 MLB
Castro 103 MLB
Baez 101 AAA (180 in AA)
Almora 74 AA (very small sample-size, 101 at A+, 137 at A, plus defender in centre)
Pretty much all of them are at age-appropriate levels or ahead of the curve too.
Right. Some prospects fail. The point is that the Cubs have an absolutely unbelievable collection of hitting prospects right now, where even if some of them do a Brandon Wood, they'll still be in a great position. And for what it's worth, most of them have better minor-league numbers than Wood anyway. And at younger ages. And some of them even have major league success, which Wood never sniffed.
Cubs are woeful. They've finished last in their division every year since 2010. Been averaging 96 losses the past 3 seasons. Even attendance at Wrigley has been down. From 2004-2011, they've had at least 3,000,000. Have yet to do so since Epstein took over, and won't happen this year either. Having decent prospects is usually a byproduct of having top draft picks (due to their poor records). Just look at the Astros. Look I'm not saying the Cubs won't be a contender in a couple years, but recent history clearly suggests otherwise.
They're woeful on purpose. They've only had Epstein and Hoyer since 2011, since then they've been deliberately bad to stockpile draft picks and international bonus money, both of which they've done incredibly well with. The Astros have done the same thing, and should be a lot better soon, but they simply haven't accumulated the talent that the Cubs have. Their big-loss seasons have pretty much no relevance, as they happened by design and basically none of the same players will be playing as will be when they aim to contend.
So 2016 is when Epstein gives the okay to start winning games?
He and Hoyer took over a bad team with bad contracts and a bad farm. Were they supposed to start throwing money around in free agency so they could get 75 wins a year?
Why are you wilfully ignoring the point? Of course top prospects bust. They bust at about a 50% rate. And even that would be the nucleus of a brilliant team. And I happen to think more than 50% of them will make it. They're better than your traditional top prospects. It's not just the stats as well, multiple scout-types are saying they've never seen a crop of position players like it.
Well he's midway through his 5-yr contract, and they've somehow managed to lose more games than before he got there. Can't think of a better time to start spending some dough. Although, Ricketts can't be too happy with Epstein looking at their decreased attendance numbers.
They've "somehow" managed to do it because they were literally trying to do so. They'll spend when it's prudent to do so. That would be when most of this great group is at the major league level and they know what they have and what they need and who from the surplus they want to use as trade bait.
What method would you have used to turn the 2011 Cubs into a contender?
I find it really hard to believe that anybody tries to lose in order to stockpile picks. This isn't "suck for Luck" at play here. The baseball draft is a complete crapshoot. And even if it weren't, you can't expect draft picks to contribute for 3 to 4 seasons anyways.
It's not so much of a crapshoot right at the top. Picking in the top 7 gives you about a 40% chance of drafting an All-Star, with the rest mostly being useful pieces. Get yourself multiple top 7 picks in a row, supplement that with an above-average scouting system and a clear strategy (hitters bust less than pitchers), and voila. Almora, Baez, Bryant and Schwarber.
And with the current system, the worse your record the more money you get to spend throughout the draft, allowing you more of the lottery ticket-type. And it's not just the draft, having a bad record gives you more money in international bonuses (Soler, Alcantara), priority in waiver claims, etc. That's clearly been the plan of them and the Astros, c'mon man. Spending little or nothing in free agency, hoarding their prospects to try to time them to arrive together, trading away anything of value time and again. They clearly haven't given a f*ck what their major league record was like over the past few years, as long as it was bad and not the worst thing to be in baseball, mediocre.
It's a risk if you do it for one pick, but what the Cubs and Astros have found out is that if you do it over multiple years, it's probably the best way to turn decrepit rosters into talented young rosters who will likely have much more of a chance of competing than tinkering with said decrepity would have. Although, again, the Cubs have done it better than the 'Stros.
Well, I'm a Dodgers fan. I'm hoping the "outspend more than everyone fecking else" method finally pays off for us this year. Sorta the Man City approach, if u will. Obviously, there's different ways to build a team. Oakland is right there every year (at least in the regular season) playing in that empty, concrete shitpile of theirs, the Coliseum. They have a proven model for success that should make every small-market team envious. Chicago certainly isn't a small-market and should be able to attract quality free-agents. Building a team through its farm system is all good and well, but it requires patience. Patience that fans don't necessarily have. Especially when their chief rivals are winning World Series and they haven't won in over 100 years. And add to that, you the GM are only on a 5-year contract.
@Feeky Magee Outta curiosity, do you live in the States and are the Cubs your team?
Kind of the exact opposite, Ireland and the White Sox!
I miss cespy All these big trades is making me weary. The next few months are going to be very nervous.
All these big trades is making me weary. The next few months are going to be very nervous.Because my point is that you can't just pencil them in and nothing you said has convinced me otherwise.
Cubs have the potential to become very good but thats all it is right now, potential. I suspect they will flip one or two of their prospects for rotation pieces at some point, their offense potentially is outstanding but their rotation not so much.
My point was never that you could pencil every single one of them in, my point was that even with the traditional amount of them busting, they have the nucleus of a really good team. They have insane depth and top-end impact, and you're simply speaking in generalities about not all prospects making it.
Yes. I never claimed anything else. TINSTAAPP
Exactly. Therefore wouldn't you say it's smart that they're loading up on bats?
Sure, but I would be surprised if 4 of those non rizzo players were starters on a cubs team that wins a playoff series.
Sounds like a bet to me. 4 starters, but it counts if one of them are the main piece in a trade which brings back another starter in said series.
The Cubs are a shite team and always will be, they're cursed.
@Feeky Magee That's what would worry me in a bet. As if making the playoffs alone wouldn't be achievement enough for the Cubs in their current state.
I care little for their current state, more for their future state. It's a tough bet, but I have faith. And it's win-win, if Eboue's right, I'm happy anyway, f*ck the Cubs.
Adam Dunn pitched an inning.
Never knew Price pitched from the stretch all the time
Good debut, 10ks, let's go Joe!
Good debut, 10ks, let's go Joe!
Big Donkey is still the best nickname in baseball.
I just signed up for 50% MLB.TV for the rest of the year. $25. I don't know if I just got it through some email list they have me on but you can try this link just in case?
Unbelievable series from the Yanks. 3 Cy Young winners and Cy Young candidate and they still took 3 of 4. With 4/5ths of their rotation missing. Crazy.
Scary scenes in Miami.