Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

Gopher Brown said:
You ignore the nostalgic romanticism of having a former player in charge and giving them the benefit of the doubt more often than not...oh wait.
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But as @Dancfc pointed out, it's not even like Arteta is some great legendary player for them. It's not Tony Adams or Thierry Henry doing all this.

Whatever you think of him as a manager Ole the player is a bona fide legend at Old Trafford, one of the most beloved players we've ever had, scored the most famous goal in our history probably etc. That's why so many, myself included, are still so affectionate towards Ole and hate to criticise him.

Arteta was a decent journeyman midfielder who played for Arsenal during the peak Wenger clown banter years. It would be like if we were putting up with Daley Blind taking us to 9th in the table and losing every week.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
But as @Dancfc pointed out, it's not even like Arteta is some great legendary player for them. It's not Tony Adams or Thierry Henry doing all this.

Whatever you think of him as a manager Ole the player is a bona fide legend at Old Trafford, one of the most beloved players we've ever had, scored the most famous goal in our history probably etc. That's why so many, myself included, are still so affectionate towards Ole and hate to criticise him.

Arteta was a decent journeyman midfielder who played for Arsenal during the peak Wenger clown banter years. It would be like if we were putting up with Daley Blind taking us to 9th in the table and losing every week.
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I reckon Daley would be better than this clown. Both in looks, personality and ability as a manager.
 
That club lacks ambition. Arteta survived that period around Christmas time where he hadn't won a league game for about 2 months.

They finished 8th last season and will be lucky to even match that this season. It's getting to the point where describing them as a midtable side seems quite generous.
 
CM10 said:
That club lacks ambition. Arteta survived that period around Christmas time where he hadn't won a league game for about 2 months.

They finished 8th last season and will be lucky to even match that this season. It's getting to the point where describing them as a midtable side seems quite generous.
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Yeah it only seems like yesterday we used to say they lacked ambition by only wanting top four, now in a small period of time they are miles off that.

Must be worrying for Arsenal fans.
 
Morty_ said:
He actually was good for Arsenal, but then he got his shiny new contract, guess he isnt that bothered anymore.
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Yes, there where big concerns about giving such a huge contract to an aging player, they proved to be right.
 
mariachi-19 said:
Absolute trash manager. The fact he still has a job tells you about Arsenal owners willingness to improve the club. fecking bite the bullet and hire one of these up and coming managers instead with some actual history of managing. Atleast ole had some impressive results in Europa and league titles to justify his position as care taker.
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haha come on cant be serious; Ole has his past as a player here and thats about it. There wasnt anything remotely impressive from his managerial career to grant a position at a top club even as a caretaker.
 
pierrethesnack said:
It wasn't much, that's true, but compared to Arteta it's quite a bit.
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Being honest I think that in a neutral scenario, saying neither Ole nor Arteta had managed United or Arsenal I think being assistant to Pep would had a bigger weight than Ole’s career.

Hypothetically who would you pick, if neither had any attachment to your club, a manager who relegated Cardiff and had a good/decent career for 8 years or so as manager in Norway or the assistant of one of the greatest managers in history for the last 3 years?

Now its been proven that it counts for shit but at the beginning it was something.
 
charlenefan said:
I think the media are just bored of criticising Arsenal now, they've been doing it for years that even their all time low now isn't that interesting
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Or with the success of AFTV, the mainstream media can't be repeating what's already being said on a daily basis by AFTV/fans. Either they come out with a different angle or they remain silent.

So they have nothing.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Being honest I think that in a neutral scenario, saying neither Ole nor Arteta had managed United or Arsenal I think being assistant to Pep would had a bigger weight than Ole’s career.

Hypothetically who would you pick, if neither had any attachment to your club, a manager who relegated Cardiff and had a good/decent career for 8 years or so as manager in Norway or the assistant of one of the greatest managers in history for the last 3 years?

Now its been proven that it counts for shit but at the beginning it was something.
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Pep had huge success before Arteta and will do after Arteta, just like Fergie before and after his assistants. I’d go with the Manager who had 8 years experience who had won league titles for a team who’s never won a title before obviously.
 
Cast5 said:
Pep had huge success before Arteta and will do after Arteta, just like Fergie before and after his assistants. I’d go with the Manager who had 8 years experience who had won league titles for a team who’s never won a title before obviously.
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Of course Pep was successful before and after Arteta, nobody is claiming Arteta was the mastermind behind him.

Still if I had to choose between Pep’s assistant whoever he is at the moment and a manager that has won 2 Norway league titles and a Norway cup, I’d choose Pep assistant. It may be just me but I think that titles from the Norway league counts for very very little

Im sure there are plenty managers from the Norway league that have won more and feck wont even get into considerarion to manage in nevermind the premier league even in the Championship.

Anyway Arteta has proven that being Pep’s assistant counts for shit, but I think is silly to pretend that Ole had anything remotely close to some kind of merit to earn his job besides being an explayer and legend here.
 
Immediately came here after listening to his post match interview. "Big balls" comment. Hilarious!
 
SAFMUTD said:
Of course Pep was successful before and after Arteta, nobody is claiming Arteta was the mastermind behind him.

Still if I had to choose between Pep’s assistant whoever he is at the moment and a manager that has won 2 Norway league titles and a Norway cup, I’d choose Pep assistant. It may be just me but I think that titles from the Norway league counts for very very little

Im sure there are plenty managers from the Norway league that have won more and feck wont even get into considerarion to manage in nevermind the premier league even in the Championship.

Anyway Arteta has proven that being Pep’s assistant counts for shit, but I think is silly to pretend that Ole had anything remotely close to some kind of merit to earn his job besides being an explayer and legend here.
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Ole got the job because of his stint as interim manager. It’s happened at many clubs.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Of course Pep was successful before and after Arteta, nobody is claiming Arteta was the mastermind behind him.

Still if I had to choose between Pep’s assistant whoever he is at the moment and a manager that has won 2 Norway league titles and a Norway cup, I’d choose Pep assistant. It may be just me but I think that titles from the Norway league counts for very very little

Im sure there are plenty managers from the Norway league that have won more and feck wont even get into considerarion to manage in nevermind the premier league even in the Championship.

Anyway Arteta has proven that being Pep’s assistant counts for shit, but I think is silly to pretend that Ole had anything remotely close to some kind of merit to earn his job besides being an explayer and legend here.
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How can you choose an assistant manager who haven't got any experience managing a club, let alone a big club like Arsenal?

Even as a player Arteta haven't won shyte.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Of course Pep was successful before and after Arteta, nobody is claiming Arteta was the mastermind behind him.

Still if I had to choose between Pep’s assistant whoever he is at the moment and a manager that has won 2 Norway league titles and a Norway cup, I’d choose Pep assistant. It may be just me but I think that titles from the Norway league counts for very very little

Im sure there are plenty managers from the Norway league that have won more and feck wont even get into considerarion to manage in nevermind the premier league even in the Championship.

Anyway Arteta has proven that being Pep’s assistant counts for shit, but I think is silly to pretend that Ole had anything remotely close to some kind of merit to earn his job besides being an explayer and legend here.
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And impressing as interim boss.
 
RashyForPM said:
Arteta has been given far more leeway from fans and the media than Wenger and Emery were. Considering the pedigree and achievements the latter two have, I’m really not sure why. Arteta himself was simply an assistant manager at a rival club before this. It’s like us back then wanting to sack Fergie and hire Steve Bould or Rui Faria, and then backing him to the hilt.
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Its simply because a lot of pundits and journalists was having a massive wank fest over Arteta (hence the thread title) so instead of admitting their predictions where off, they instead shift the blame over on the players.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Being honest I think that in a neutral scenario, saying neither Ole nor Arteta had managed United or Arsenal I think being assistant to Pep would had a bigger weight than Ole’s career.

Hypothetically who would you pick, if neither had any attachment to your club, a manager who relegated Cardiff and had a good/decent career for 8 years or so as manager in Norway or the assistant of one of the greatest managers in history for the last 3 years?

Now its been proven that it counts for shit but at the beginning it was something.
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Shocking isn't it? After all of those league titles won by Brian Kidd, Steve Maclaren, Carlos Queiroz, Jim Ryan, Mike Phelan and Rene Meulensteen, who would have considered it may not work?

It's shocking that putting out cones and carrying the gatorade for one of the best managers of all time doesn't guarantee that you yourself will be just as good.

Is there any other profession in the world that the experience of doing the job to a decent level is valued less than someone who's never done it but has watched someone else do it at close quarters? With football management, there's no middle ground. There's no acceptance that one manager could suit a certain club or do a good job in certain circumstances or (God forbid) improve with experience. No, a manager must be labelled a genius or an incompetent buffoon and there's no going back.

Your insistence that Arteta was more qualified is like turning down a neurosurgeon to perform a life saving operation in favour of the nurse who assisted the best neurosurgeon in the world for 3 years. Surely they'll know what they're doing.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Yeah it only seems like yesterday we used to say they lacked ambition by only wanting top four, now in a small period of time they are miles off that.

Must be worrying for Arsenal fans.
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My heart bleeds for them.... NOT.
 
Once they get knocked out of Europe this fail of a season will probably come crashing down on him. 10th in the league for Arsenal is shocking.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Being honest I think that in a neutral scenario, saying neither Ole nor Arteta had managed United or Arsenal I think being assistant to Pep would had a bigger weight than Ole’s career.

Hypothetically who would you pick, if neither had any attachment to your club, a manager who relegated Cardiff and had a good/decent career for 8 years or so as manager in Norway or the assistant of one of the greatest managers in history for the last 3 years?

Now its been proven that it counts for shit but at the beginning it was something.
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Arteta got his job based on:
- Former Arsenal player
- Pep thinks he could be a good assistant manager for Manchester City
- He has watched Pep be a manager for three years (you don't automatically aquire skills from watching)
- Interveiws

Ole got the job based on:
- Former Manchester United legend
- Experience as a manager for youth teams, Molde and Cardiff (showing for example that he is a good man manager, can develop youth players, can win the league, can take his team through bad stints, can dominate teams, etc)
- Succcessfull period as interim manager (good results, squad believe in him, his philosophy aligns with the club)
- Played for SAF for several years (knowing the culture of the club in its most successfull period)
- Popular with fans
- Interviews

I think hiring Arteta was definitely more risky, though both appointments should be categorized as risky. I think more people were more surprised Arteta got the job than Ole (after his successfull interim period). Both teams probably felt it was time to take a risk after previous safe appointments didn't work out. Risk it to get the biscuit.

Of course Ole would not get the job in any other big club, as the attachement to the club played a big part. That doesn't mean it shouldn't play a part. Its also probably why Pep and Zidane got their job (and had immidiate success). Pep did an amazing job in Barcelona, but I don't think many other big clubs would have hired him before that, and I don't think he would have been successfull in for example Cardiff. There are different requirements to manage big and small clubs. To be relevant for other big clubs Ole would probably have to take smaller step like Haaland.

For curiosity, were do you draw the line? At assistant manager? What about player? Would any ex-Pep player be better suited to manage Manchester Unted than Solskjær? They have obviously seen how Pep work both on the training ground and in the dressing room? What about a Bayern Munich fan who closely followied Pep and wathched all his games in Germany? Would he/she be more qualified? If so, why doesn't it count that Solskjær played for SAF for several years?
 
But at least they draw 3-3 with West Ham and were only 5 points or so behind 4th place. At least that's what some guys here told me. :lol:

He's genuinely terrible and somehow made a lot of people accept 10th place is good enough for Arsenal. That's absolutely hilarious.
 
Morty_ said:
He actually was good for Arsenal, but then he got his shiny new contract, guess he isnt that bothered anymore.
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Maybe it's also the negative way arsenal play as well that has made lose a bit of his desire playing for them, they are pretty dreadful to watch and can't imagine it's all that fun to be an attacker in their current set up, arteta is more of a really poor man's simeone than a really poor man's Guardiola.
 
Bobcat said:
Its simply because a lot of pundits and journalists was having a massive wank fest over Arteta (hence the thread title) so instead of admitting their predictions where off, they instead shift the blame over on the players.
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I don't understand the wankfest. There's always this narrative about Arteta that he's some true tactician or something. No idea why. One cup aside he's been pretty average for Arsenal.
 
horsechoker said:
Why on earth would Rodgers take a worse job when he's doing well at Leicester
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Erm... you’re saying it like you’re disagreeing with me... but you’re saying the exact same thing as me... so I don’t know how to answer that

maybe read what I wrote again?
 
Lower win/points record in his first 50 games than Emery and Wenger’s last 50 games as well. They’re going backwards.

Wenger had almost 30 goals more in his last 50 games and 6 more wins than Arteta’s start its ridiculous. Wenger even had more clean sheets ffs.
 
meamth said:
How can you choose an assistant manager who haven't got any experience managing a club, let alone a big club like Arsenal?

Even as a player Arteta haven't won shyte.
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Because that’s how desperate some people are to shit on United.
 
meamth said:
How can you choose an assistant manager who haven't got any experience managing a club, let alone a big club like Arsenal?

Even as a player Arteta haven't won shyte.
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It's a big gamble but that's fine, clubs do take gambles. What I find strange is the leeway given to him. Rather than having to prove himself to be one, he's just been assumed to be a brilliant tactician. He's also being judged as a newbie manager. It shouldn't matter. At a big club like Arsenal, whether you're a young manager or an old one, there should be expectations. 13 time English champions FFS.
 
I’ve said it since day one. It’s because he’s a handsome bastard with a full head of hair. Looks cool, sounds cool and was assistant under Pep, apart from that he’s genuinely atrocious. If he looked like Roy Hodgson he would never have got the job.
 
The most overrated manager ever(then again who rates him nowadays).

The fact some people thought he was a elite level manager was pure lolz.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Of course Pep was successful before and after Arteta, nobody is claiming Arteta was the mastermind behind him.

Still if I had to choose between Pep’s assistant whoever he is at the moment and a manager that has won 2 Norway league titles and a Norway cup, I’d choose Pep assistant. It may be just me but I think that titles from the Norway league counts for very very little

Im sure there are plenty managers from the Norway league that have won more and feck wont even get into considerarion to manage in nevermind the premier league even in the Championship.

Anyway Arteta has proven that being Pep’s assistant counts for shit, but I think is silly to pretend that Ole had anything remotely close to some kind of merit to earn his job besides being an explayer and legend here.
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My god what a car crash of a post
 
From a non-Arsenal fan perspective, Arteta's biggest crime is how utterly unwatchable he has made them.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Being honest I think that in a neutral scenario, saying neither Ole nor Arteta had managed United or Arsenal I think being assistant to Pep would had a bigger weight than Ole’s career.

Hypothetically who would you pick, if neither had any attachment to your club, a manager who relegated Cardiff and had a good/decent career for 8 years or so as manager in Norway or the assistant of one of the greatest managers in history for the last 3 years?

Now its been proven that it counts for shit but at the beginning it was something.
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The bloke who’s actually managed a team , won titles and got impressive results in Europa,or some bloke who picked up the water bottles? For pep

feck me, no wonder there’s so many shit opinions floating around this forum. One has runs on the board, the other was still learning to wipe his arse.
 
Yeah, yesterday was bad, he wasn't happy, that's not how we've been playing recently & that was unacceptable. We missed Saka & Smith-Rowe, & how they can get on the ball & keep the ball, but still should have done better.

I can accept that we'll still have some bad days, I can see us playing better in general (not yesterday), what's worrying for me is that we seem to shit ourselves & go really into our shell when playing City & Liverpool, it's not a trait I like to see.
 
meamth said:
How can you choose an assistant manager who haven't got any experience managing a club, let alone a big club like Arsenal?

Even as a player Arteta haven't won shyte.
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Because for me it has more value to be an assistant to one of the greatest managers in the history of the game than being a manager in a no name low level league.

not saying I’d be over the moon to sign Pep’s assistant as a coach for my team, just saying both scenarios at first were really underwhelming. It turned to be way worse for Arteta obviously but people critizing Arsenal for choosing a no name seem to forget we did a similar move with Ole.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Because for me it has more value to be an assistant to one of the greatest managers in the history of the game than being a manager in a no name low level league.

not saying I’d be over the moon to sign Pep’s assistant as a coach for my team, just saying both scenarios at first were really underwhelming. It turned to be way worse for Arteta obviously but people critizing Arsenal for choosing a no name seem to forget we did a similar move with Ole.
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I hear what you're saying. It's hard to look past Arteta's performances now but I do remember thinking Arsenal.could have a potential gem on their hands when he was rumoured to go there.
 
POF said:
Shocking isn't it? After all of those league titles won by Brian Kidd, Steve Maclaren, Carlos Queiroz, Jim Ryan, Mike Phelan and Rene Meulensteen, who would have considered it may not work?

It's shocking that putting out cones and carrying the gatorade for one of the best managers of all time doesn't guarantee that you yourself will be just as good.

Is there any other profession in the world that the experience of doing the job to a decent level is valued less than someone who's never done it but has watched someone else do it at close quarters? With football management, there's no middle ground. There's no acceptance that one manager could suit a certain club or do a good job in certain circumstances or (God forbid) improve with experience. No, a manager must be labelled a genius or an incompetent buffoon and there's no going back.

Your insistence that Arteta was more qualified is like turning down a neurosurgeon to perform a life saving operation in favour of the nurse who assisted the best neurosurgeon in the world for 3 years. Surely they'll know what they're doing.
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You’re taking things as black or white mate, without researching I think we could find more cases of success from assistant from top coaches that made it big than managers managing in low level leagues for 10 years and then suddenly going top level.

if you really think the assistant is only there to put cones and bring the gatorade I don’t know what to tell you.
 
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