You’re the one mentioned top 6 not 12th
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Personally I don't accept a universe where a draw against West Ham is a good result for Arsenal. He's got a great squad. He's not ready to be at the helm of such a big club. Maybe in 10 years.
And he's been in charge for 15 months already. But some people act like they gave him West Brom's squad and this is only his 4th game.
15 months and one major trophy already.
Fair enough. We will see where he is next season, but I think it will be more of the same. My brother is a fan so I watch most of the league games. I am yet to see anything yet bar effort from the players to suggest he is a great coach.
But time will tell. It’s certainly not knee jerk to say it’s been a poor season with the players he has available to him. Lowering standards to excuse a manager is never a good thing. They should be doing better. Your players are far better than opposition fans are suggesting.
It hasn’t been good enough so far and I don’t think it’s clear that they are improving.
This guy is proving more elite level by the week.
As I keep saying, we've had a 2nd better half of the season that first half, that truly was terrible. Think we've gained the same points as Utd since Xmas. So in that way, there's improvement. There's certainly attacking improvement that's for sure, he now needs to a couple more players to get the balance right.
Indeed. Exciting times for the club and for the fans!
It means nothing. It was nice, but it’s no indication of where you are going as a club. di Matteo had a CL and where is he now?
The jury is still very much out on Arteta, but lowering expectations with the amount of talent in the squad does no one any favors.
Like I said, I have watched a lot of the games, and I still don’t see any massive improvement bar the physical effort from the players.
There is a still a lot of huffing and puffing and uninspired football.
Think it just annoys me because I have seen so many posts and opinions playing down the squad to defend Arteta and I just don’t think that’s true.
I actually think Arsenal have the makings of a good team and some of the most promising young players in the division.
They should be fighting for top 4 based on their quality and just because there has been better form recently doesn’t excuse the season they have had.
I don’t agree that their players are better than people give them credit for. The squad is currently a 10th - 6th place unit. It needs massive overhaul.
They play players of the calibre of Everton or Leicester mixed with players of the calibre of Newcastle.
Their one genuinely great player Auba does not have the temperament or leadership to motivate or nurture the players around him and so despite being great is really a detriment.
They have a few good young players coming through who will play well in some games but not have the experience to really push that team on just yet.
No one in the top 6 would touch Luiz, Xhaka or Willian for example. Possibly Lacazette even given how inconsistent he is. So the leaders in the squad aren’t very good.. or do they even have leaders because Emery felt the need for 6 captains??
I do agree they have been poor this season and the lack of gold in the beginning really hurt them. The decision to ostracize Ozil, no matter the reason, really did look like an amateur mistake and I’m sure he would not have done the same had he known how poor his attacking options would be.
Overall Arteta is trying to run the club well but it has countless problems that aren’t even football related that might even be trouble for an experienced manager. I’ll give him some credit for the work he has done but the results have been poor this season no doubt.
None of Arsenal's team would get into that West Ham team bar possibly Lacazette, Saka and Odegaard.
They really do have a midtable squad.
Im not excusing the poor start. If the form continued like it was from October to December, he'd be under severe pressure or already out of a job. But like I said, performances in the main have picked up despite you not thinking they have, & the results are better, as the form table since Xmas shows.
Still, there's plenty of room for improvement. Plenty of young players to build round & to try & get more consistency from.
Agreed and that's a very low possibility too. West Ham would not care about having Lacazette, Saka, Odegaard, Tierney, Gabriel, Partey or Smith-Rowe.
None of Arsenal's team would get into that West Ham team bar possibly Lacazette, Saka and Odegaard.
They really do have a midtable squad.
Heard they renewed Noble though so they should be fine.
I don’t agree at all lads! I think Tierney, Mari, Gabriel, Bellerin, Saka, Ceballos, Odegaard, Partey, Smith-Rowe, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Martinelli are all good to very good players.
They also loaned out players that would get on for the likes of west ham in Torreira, Saliba and Maitland-Niles.
They have loads of quality there and their first team is better than West Ham or Leicester.
They also loaned out players that would get on for the likes of west ham in Torreira, Saliba and Maitland-Niles.
They have loads of quality there and their first team is better than West Ham or Leicester.
I just don’t see performances improving in the games I have seen. The first 30 minutes today was absolutely woeful. Like I said, results have been better, and fair play if he builds on that, but I am far from convinced.
It’s a terrible season and excusing him on the basis of underrating what is a very good squad, doesn’t help anyone.
In the summer people were predicting West Ham to do down.
None of Arsenal's team would get into that West Ham team bar possibly Lacazette, Saka and Odegaard.
They really do have a midtable squad.
These excuses for Arteta are getting ridiculous, where was this energy for Emery who took an worse squad within a game of top 4?
Partey, Tierney would probably get into City so they're definitely getting into West ham.
None of Arsenal's team would get into that West Ham team bar possibly Lacazette, Saka and Odegaard.
They really do have a midtable squad.
I'm still perplexed at this idea Arsenal have at best a top 8 team. Odegaard is certainly a more quality addition but look at the state of the defence, any team that proclaims to be a top club is immediately disqualified naming David Luiz as a starting player. Leicester, Chelsea, United, City, Liverpool, Spurs have comfortably the better squads.
No chance Partey gets into the City team.
On what basis ? Partey doesn't displace an Fernandinho let alone Rodri. I've not seen enough of Tierney to given an opinion.
Not having Partey, but Tierney's a good shout.
I feel like im repeating myself, but since he tweaked formation for the Chelsea game we've scored 3 vs Chelsea, 4 vs West Brom, 3 vs Southampton, 4 vs Leeds, 3 vs Leicester, 3 vs West Ham & that's not including European games.
First half of the season we scored 3 goals in a game once....vs Fulham first game of the season. The bar went very low afterwards, believe me.
Plus, don't forget, he's now got a very decent chance of making a European final.
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The thing is that our idea of how good a squad is, and indeed of the quality of individual players, is so strongly connected to how they perform as a team.
I can guarantee you that very few in Germany ever would have thought players like Matip, or even Firmino, would be material for a Premier League and Champions League winning team. Team dynamics, good runs, confidence, clear instructions and roles, all this can do wonders to the performance of players, and then suddenly Milner, Henderson and Wijnaldum is this amazing midfield, which noone ever would have said in advance.
You can't tell me that there isn't an alternate universe out there where a top manager takes over this Arsenal, and suddenly this squad seems full of talent balanced out with great experience, even if it needs improving in defensive positions.
And I can imagine another one where the squad of Liverpool is 10th with someone like Arteta.
I guess so to an extent, I just really don't think Arsenal have enough as a squad to really punch above the top four. But what you've mentioned about top managers is true I believe it to be the case with us at United / Spurs. I'm positive that a manager of a higher calibre would have us pushing for the league as opposed to Ole. That's on the basis of what Solskjaer's spent and our individual quality.
I think Arteta will need another window with investment before being able to draw strong conclusion on his management. I heard Henry making a good point that winning the FA has merited him more time but the hierarchy if Arsenal need to back him further the question is how obviously given the pandemic.
Arsenal didn't spend so little themselves.
And they are improved now, and I'm not saying that Arteta doesn't do anything well, but the first half of the season was horrible and a club like Arsenal deserves better. It's not surprising either, why would Arteta know how to do it on that level when it's his very first managerial job ever.
I just don't understand how expectations could have become lowered so seriously at Arsenal. Especially if you think how Wenger got crucified at the end for doing a perfectly reasonable, even if at crucial times frustrating, job.
No comparison to Solskjaer either, who has you in 2nd place and is doing a good job this season.
This is mostly down to the ambition individually of fans. In my book being knocked out of the UCL group stages, falling out of domestic cups left right / center and having a a good league position doesn't account for anything definitive of a "good job" unless the team is contending for the league.
The fact we have been such a one trick pony with a decent league position forfeiting everything else is in no wise something to be applauded.
Yeah, I realize there's not a clear solution.
But I feel like there's been missed chances. I would have loved it if Arsenal had hired Tuchel, I don't know if he would have come.
I'm aware it doesn't make much sense to speculate; at the same time I find it uncomfortably strange to think that hiring and keeping Arteta is the best that could have been done.
I wasn't an Arteta fan but he's doing OK. He's been limited by what he has to work with and so many points this season have been dropped by boneheaded decisions from players. It's hard to coach that sort of thing out of experienced pros. In my book he gets three solid seasons to show what he's capable of. I don't really count this Covid season as one of them.
Wow, that's a long, long time.
I do agree that the Covid situation should be factored in as a big disclaimer over this season. But other teams are performing.
I just have trouble justifying giving three seasons to someone to 'show what they're capable of'.. If it were someone that has shown before that they can be capable, the thought makes sense to give them the time to implement or recreate that.
But if it's someone where it is completely unknown whether they have that quality? Wow, that seems a tough sell to me.
What are the odds Arteta proves to be a proper top manager? And I mean, not just a talented coach, or hard worker, or intelligent tactician. I mean the whole package, man management, motivating, consistency of implementation, getting the best out of players. It seems reckless to me to put so much faith in him.
Let me ask, what concrete expectations would you have for next season (Let's say you finish this one out of Europe)?
It all depends on how much the owner will back him. No point setting unreasonable expectations if they don't give him what's needed to sign a top CB, replace Xhaka and sign Odegaard while ensuring all the young talent is happy.
His squad is not great, its ok at best. That being said he must win Europa League. He just must otherwise he should be sacked.
Well, let's hope for the best.
Don’t remember Emery at Arsenal all that well but did they get involved in horrendously negative dullfests anywhere near as often under him as they have done under Arteta? Results aside, surely Arsenal fans can’t keep tolerating this as a spectacle much longer?
He's doing a great job. Great...job...
Horrendous football at times. Arsenal have to be careful they don’t lower their standards too much just to excuse a novice manager.
They are terrible to watch at times and they have far better footballers than what they are showing.
A lot wanting to believe in a “promising young coach” but he is underachieving and only a Europa wins saves him from a terrible season now.
On the same points as budget Leeds and now 4 behind Everton who have two games in hand for 8th place. That’s abysmal. Be very careful Arsenal fans. You are better than this.
They are terrible to watch at times and they have far better footballers than what they are showing.
A lot wanting to believe in a “promising young coach” but he is underachieving and only a Europa wins saves him from a terrible season now.
On the same points as budget Leeds and now 4 behind Everton who have two games in hand for 8th place. That’s abysmal. Be very careful Arsenal fans. You are better than this.
Literally a mid table side now. Finished 8th last year, currently 9th.
Surely they can be removed from the traditional top 6 nonsense and have Leicester in there?
Surely they can be removed from the traditional top 6 nonsense and have Leicester in there?
Villa have 2 games in hand and are level on points. They’ll do well to finish ahead of Leeds in 10th
People were raving about Gabriel on here. Another shite player Arsenal signed for 30m.
Posters here often don't realise the grass isn't always greener elsewhere.
Posters here often don't realise the grass isn't always greener elsewhere.
Many in this thread are saying they got a great squad.
I dont get it...
Leno isnt as good as any of the top 6 GK's
Arsenal got a terrible terrible defence
Pepe is one of the worst wingers in the league.
Ødegård is Mata v2 at the age of 33. If they buy him he is sacked a month after
I dont get it...
Leno isnt as good as any of the top 6 GK's
Arsenal got a terrible terrible defence
Pepe is one of the worst wingers in the league.
Ødegård is Mata v2 at the age of 33. If they buy him he is sacked a month after