Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[Remember the geese]

They've lost a few games, but they know why they've lost

 

[Zlatan 7]

You’re taking things as black or white mate, without researching I think we could find more cases of success from assistant from top coaches that made it big than managers managing in low level leagues for 10 years and then suddenly going top level.

if you really think the assistant is only there to put cones and bring the gatorade I don’t know what to tell you.

Have a quick research then, I’d be intersted to know, seeing you’ve claimed that

 

[SAFMUTD]

Arteta got his job based on:
- Former Arsenal player
- Pep thinks he could be a good assistant manager for Manchester City
- He has watched Pep be a manager for three years (you don't automatically aquire skills from watching)
- Interveiws

Ole got the job based on:
- Former Manchester United legend
- Experience as a manager for youth teams, Molde and Cardiff (showing for example that he is a good man manager, can develop youth players, can win the league, can take his team through bad stints, can dominate teams, etc)
- Succcessfull period as interim manager (good results, squad believe in him, his philosophy aligns with the club)
- Played for SAF for several years (knowing the culture of the club in its most successfull period)
- Popular with fans
- Interviews

I think hiring Arteta was definitely more risky, though both appointments should be categorized as risky. I think more people were more surprised Arteta got the job than Ole (after his successfull interim period). Both teams probably felt it was time to take a risk after previous safe appointments didn't work out. Risk it to get the biscuit.

Of course Ole would not get the job in any other big club, as the attachement to the club played a big part. That doesn't mean it shouldn't play a part. Its also probably why Pep and Zidane got their job (and had immidiate success). Pep did an amazing job in Barcelona, but I don't think many other big clubs would have hired him before that, and I don't think he would have been successfull in for example Cardiff. There are different requirements to manage big and small clubs. To be relevant for other big clubs Ole would probably have to take smaller step like Haaland.

For curiosity, were do you draw the line? At assistant manager? What about player? Would any ex-Pep player be better suited to manage Manchester Unted than Solskjær? They have obviously seen how Pep work both on the training ground and in the dressing room? What about a Bayern Munich fan who closely followied Pep and wathched all his games in Germany? Would he/she be more qualified? If so, why doesn't it count that Solskjær played for SAF for several years?

Mate you got it all wrong, Im not defending Arteta not saying he would have done a better job than Ole nor that he deserved to be Arsenal’s manager.

all my post is answering to an argument about someone claiming Ole got the credentials to manage a big club and Arteta didnt. Its balanty obvious is wasn’t because of his coaching career.

As you very well pointed out, and just what I said, Ole got his chance because he’s an ex player and a legend here. If he haven’t had that there’s no way he would even had been considered to get a remotely chance. I mean how often do top teams actually scout managers from low leagues? My guess is it has never happened.

again not saying Arteta would had done better job, he has actually proved to be a pretty shitty manager. Just saying just as Arteta, Ole didn’t had the merits as a coach to deserve a chance here even as a caretaker manager.

 

[SAFMUTD]

The bloke who’s actually managed a team , won titles and got impressive results in Europa,or some bloke who picked up the water bottles? For pep

feck me, no wonder there’s so many shit opinions floating around this forum. One has runs on the board, the other was still learning to wipe his arse.

Won titles In the norwewiang league FFS haha you should be ashamed to even mention that ones, and please tell me about that impressive results in Europa. I seriously havent heard about them.

Surely there are managers with way more titles on Norway than Ole, under your logic we should be watching them closely as well.

i seriously cant believe people are so blind that can accept the fact that Ole got his chance because his player status not because his merit as a coach. Before being appointed no one would have asked for him. if he has done a good or bad job while at it has nothing to do with this fact.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I hear what you're saying. It's hard to look past Arteta's performances now but I do remember thinking Arsenal.could have a potential gem on their hands when he was rumoured to go there.

Many thought that way, but I think is safe to say Arteta is pretty much done as a coach at top level. I don’t think he’ll get another chance.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Have a quick research then, I’d be intersted to know, seeing you’ve claimed that

Just out of the top of my head, Mourinho was assistant to LVG in barcelona before taking Porto, Nuno Espiritu Santo was an assistant coach as well.

couldnt find any manager from the Norwewiang league making it big, maybe you can. No worries Ill wait.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Of course Pep was successful before and after Arteta, nobody is claiming Arteta was the mastermind behind him.

Still if I had to choose between Pep’s assistant whoever he is at the moment and a manager that has won 2 Norway league titles and a Norway cup, I’d choose Pep assistant. It may be just me but I think that titles from the Norway league counts for very very little

Im sure there are plenty managers from the Norway league that have won more and feck wont even get into considerarion to manage in nevermind the premier league even in the Championship.

Anyway Arteta has proven that being Pep’s assistant counts for shit, but I think is silly to pretend that Ole had anything remotely close to some kind of merit to earn his job besides being an explayer and legend here.

Such strange logic. And I'm not even one that rates Ole very highly. It's just odd to pick an assistant manager over a manager simply becuase they worked under Pep.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

People forget Mike phelan was the assistant to an even better manager than pep

 

[cyberman]

Just out of the top of my head, Mourinho was assistant to LVG in barcelona before taking Porto, Nuno Espiritu Santo was an assistant coach as well.

couldnt find any manager from the Norwewiang league making it big, maybe you can. No worries Ill wait.

All got top jobs after being successful in lower leagues? Theyre not actual assistants when a top club went in for them.
Didnt Ole work under Sir Alex?

Edit he did, as a striker coach. What a terrible post

 

[SAFMUTD]

Such strange logic. And I'm not even one that rates Ole very highly. It's just odd to pick an assistant manager over a manager simply becuase they worked under Pep.

Its not an ideal situation, feck having to choose between a manager from the norwewiang league or an assistant coach that has never managed is pretty poor.

thats an hypothetical case, considering none of them had any attachments to Arsenal nor ManUtd whatsoever.

Truth is none of them would have got the chance if not for their past as players in each club.

 

[Sweet Square]

Great discussion on Arteta!

 

[SAFMUTD]

All got top jobs after being successful in lower leagues? Theyre not actual assistants when a top club went in for them.
Didnt Ole work under Sir Alex?

Edit he did, as a striker coach. What a terrible post

Who said all got top jobs? I was asked to mentioned a few that were assistants that went on to have successful careers. Those two had IMO.

What in hell has Ole working as assitant to Sir Alex anything to do with that?

the argument is about whats more likely, an assistant coach becoming a successful manager or a manager from a low league. Obviously talking successful at a top league.

 

[cyberman]

Who said all got top jobs? I was asked to mentioned a few that were assistants that went on to have successful careers. Those two had IMO.

What in hell has Ole working as assitant to Sir Alex anything to do with that?

the argument is about whats more likely, an assistant coach becoming a successful manager or a manager from a low league. Obviously talking successful at a top league.

You separated Ole with assistant to top managers when Ole hinself worked as an assistant to the greatest manager of all time. If anything he had what Arteta had plus success on his own.

 

[Zlatan 7]

All got top jobs after being successful in lower leagues? Theyre not actual assistants when a top club went in for them.
Didnt Ole work under Sir Alex?

Edit he did, as a striker coach. What a terrible post

Thanks, saves me replying too

 

[horsechoker]

He's surviving off his tournament runs, I think he'll be given another season but I don't see him turning Arsenal back into a top 4 team.

 

[hubbuh]

Oh my Christ shut the feck up about Ole for the love of God. People are trying to laugh at the Arse here

 

[SAFMUTD]

You separated Ole with assistant to top managers when Ole hinself worked as an assistant to the greatest manager of all time. If anything he had what Arteta had plus success on his own.

Im not talking about Ole specially its about the situation, this is not a thing about Ole in or Ole out. Really some people here take everything as an attack to Ole.

for the sake of the argument, lets change the names. Lets say you have to choose between Pepjin Lijnders (Klopps current assistant) and Erling Moe (Molde’s current coach).

Who would you choose? Who do you think has a better chance to make it big? Thats not saying either can, but if any could who do you think that would be?

 

[Ajr]

He needs a new starting 11, before we can judge him properly.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Thanks, saves me replying too

Ill keep waiting for your repply, seriously interested if you can find even one example.

 

[cyberman]

Im not talking about Ole specially its about the situation, this is not a thing about Ole in or Ole out. Really some people here take everything as an attack to Ole.

for the sake of the argument, lets change the names. Lets say you have to choose between Pepjin Lijnders (Klopps current assistant) and Erling Moe (Molde’s current coach).

Who would you choose? Who do you think has a better chance to make it big? Thats not saying either can, but if any could who do you think that would be?

Apparently Molde are doing well since that was held against Ole last month so i choose the actual coach.
How many assistants step up straight away? Long term you just may have a point but not straight off the bat. Theres always lower level managers stepping up and finding success.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Ill keep waiting for your repply, seriously interested if you can find even one example.

You were not sincere hence your snarky no worries I’ll wait reply , I agree with cyberman. I’m still waiting for you to show an example of an assistant that mate it big; not a manager from a lower league first

 

[Ajr]

Apparently Molde are doing well since that was held against Ole last month so i choose the actual coach.
How many assistants step up straight away? Long term you just may have a point but not straight off the bat. Theres always lower level managers stepping up and finding success.

How much of Molde doing well is down to the system setup before him by Solskjaer?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He needs a new starting 11, before we can judge him properly.

Same post in this and the Tuchel thread. Can we not have Ole related digs in these threads and not have digs from Ole fans in other managers threads (for example Pochettino)? I don't rate Ole highly myself, but it's all a bit much from both sides.

Let's keep this to Arteta.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Apparently Molde are doing well since that was held against Ole last month so i choose the actual coach.
How many assistants step up straight away? Long term you just may have a point but not straight off the bat. Theres always lower level managers stepping up and finding success.

I would choose the assistant, I know its a slim chance but I think the actual benefit of striking gold and somehow having a assistant that can emulate someone like Klopp is worth more that hiring an already made coach from a league like the norwegian.

of course I would pick neither in an open market, but it choosing between those two I would pick the assistant.

 

[Cassidy]

How much of Molde doing well is down to the system setup before him by Solskjaer?

Or the crazy amount of money Modle spent under Ole....

 

[cyberman]

O

How much of Molde doing well is down to the system setup before him by Solskjaer?

Oh im not saying Ole didnt do well, it was just the argument levelled against him. During their tanking by Grenada funnily enough, which was weird.

 

[cyberman]

Or the crazy amount of money Modle spent under Ole....

Like Poch at PSG?

 

[SAFMUTD]

You were not sincere hence your snarky no worries I’ll wait reply , I agree with cyberman. I’m still waiting for you to show an example of an assistant that mate it big; not a manager from a lower league first

Didnt you read the post? How about Jose Mourinho, does his name ring some bells? Won the league in spain, england, portugal, italy, two UCL titles, a triplet with Inter? Was a big thing around 2010, portuguese bitter fecker. Should have heard of him I think.

now please mention the successful manager from the lower league.

 

[Cassidy]

Like Poch at PSG?

I don't believe they have spent barely anything in the past 2/3 years

 

[TwoSheds]

Because for me it has more value to be an assistant to one of the greatest managers in the history of the game than being a manager in a no name low level league.

not saying I’d be over the moon to sign Pep’s assistant as a coach for my team, just saying both scenarios at first were really underwhelming. It turned to be way worse for Arteta obviously but people critizing Arsenal for choosing a no name seem to forget we did a similar move with Ole.

Ole was Fergie's reserve team coach and managed in 2 different leagues including winning trophies in one of them. There's no comparison in terms of what they'd achieved whichever way you want to frame it. If people haven't watched Meulensteen and Brian Kidd try to manage and want to go on about how being a great manager's assistant is good enough to get you a top job fine, but your comparison barely even works in that context.

At least Lampard had actually managed a just about decent season in the Championship, all Arteta had done was stand next to Guardiola and look serious.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Didnt you read the post? How about Jose Mourinho, does his name ring some bells? Won the league in spain, england, portugal, italy, two UCL titles, a triplet with Inter? Was a big thing around 2010, portuguese bitter fecker. Should have heard of him I think.

now please mention the successful manager from the lower league.

Did he not manage in a lower league before he moved onto a bigger club? Or did he go straight from assistant to the premier league or la Ligue?

 

[SAFMUTD]

Did he not manage in a lower league before he moved onto a bigger club? Or did he go straight from assistant to the premier league or la Ligue?

Are you seriously grading the portuguese league ln the same bracket as the Norwegian league?

 

[GoonerBear]

Anyone want to debate Arteta with me?

 

[Zlatan 7]

Are you seriously grading the portuguese league ln the same bracket as the Norwegian league?

No, I’m saying the Portuguese is a lower level league where a manger can get his footing first.

 

[SAFMUTD]

No, I’m saying the Portuguese is a lower level league where a manger can get his footing first.

Lower than the EPL surely, but definitely not a low league. Its a medium league, we are talking about low leagues here. Meaning leagues like the Norwegian where the champions dont even get a full pass to the UCL but have to to go through qualification first.

 

[Hansi Fick]

It's a big gamble but that's fine, clubs do take gambles. What I find strange is the leeway given to him. Rather than having to prove himself to be one, he's just been assumed to be a brilliant tactician. He's also being judged as a newbie manager. It shouldn't matter. At a big club like Arsenal, whether you're a young manager or an old one, there should be expectations. 13 time English champions FFS.

Exactly. This is 100% how I feel about this.

 

[AshRK]

He is doing a wonderful job actually.... wonderful job of lowering the standards. The guy before the game calls this game a free hit, so basically admitting top 4 is out of reach. Yes arsenal squad is not good to win the league but a better manager will make them play better and use Aubameyang better. Yes auba has been crap since singing the contract but this is the same auba who season after season has banged 20 plus goals in the league campaign. I am pretty sure a better manager will still manage to get the best out of Aubameyang.

Apart from the results, honestly they play one of the worst football in the league right now. And yesterday wasn't one off, they have become a boring side under Arteta. This football is not sustainable and ultimately leads to mediocre results.

 

[Flexdegea]

Of course Pep was successful before and after Arteta, nobody is claiming Arteta was the mastermind behind him.

Still if I had to choose between Pep’s assistant whoever he is at the moment and a manager that has won 2 Norway league titles and a Norway cup, I’d choose Pep assistant. It may be just me but I think that titles from the Norway league counts for very very little

Im sure there are plenty managers from the Norway league that have won more and feck wont even get into considerarion to manage in nevermind the premier league even in the Championship.

Anyway Arteta has proven that being Pep’s assistant counts for shit, but I think is silly to pretend that Ole had anything remotely close to some kind of merit to earn his job besides being an explayer and legend here.

Your thinking is literally why no one saying anything about, being a assistant to pep basically top manager.


I wouldn't have took any of Fergie assistants as manager...... But seems being peps elevates you too unseen levels of hype

 

[Lay]

8th last season was it? and currently 9th. That FA Cup win is papering over so many cracks at Arsenal and Arteta. 12 wins and 12 losses in the league this season is shocking for Arsenal.

 

[GoonerBear]

He is doing a wonderful job actually.... wonderful job of lowering the standards. The guy before the game calls this game a free hit, so basically admitting top 4 is out of reach. Yes arsenal squad is not good to win the league but a better manager will make them play better and use Aubameyang better. Yes auba has been crap since singing the contract but this is the same auba who season after season has banged 20 plus goals in the league campaign. I am pretty sure a better manager will still manage to get the best out of Aubameyang.

Apart from the results, honestly they play one of the worst football in the league right now. And yesterday wasn't one off, they have become a boring side under Arteta. This football is not sustainable and ultimately leads to mediocre results.

That's not true, the football has been a lot better since Xmas. We've scored 3 at Leicester, 3 vs Chelsea, 4 vs West Brom, 3 vs Newcastle, 3 vs Southampton, 3 vs West Ham, 4 vs Leeds, 3 vs Benfica, & 3 vs Olympiakos. The problem is there's games still in between like vs Villa, vs Palace & last night where we do struggle. We are still inconsistent, that's the frustration.

He's doing the dirty work at least, & clearing a lot of the bloat. That's part of the reason Arsenal fans are giving him time, because even if with some squad changes in the summer, if the results don't improve next season, the squad should look in a better state for any new manager coming in. A squad with young guys like Saliba, Tierney, Gabriel, Smith-Rowe, Saka, Martinelli with some senior guys like Partey & Auba, not to mention if they bring in a couple in the summer, most managers would be happy with that as a basis to build from than guys like Mustafi, Kolasinac & Sokratis.