Lucky today Leeds hammered their woodwork time and time again. No attacking threat at all.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Amazing the praise he gets in the media in the same interviews where Ole is hammered.
I get some laugh when people contrast the two and say 'arteta has a clear philosophy' because he tries to pass it out from the back haha
I get some laugh when people contrast the two and say 'arteta has a clear philosophy' because he tries to pass it out from the back haha
It's about balance and he's chosen to shore up his team whilst compromising on quality. Of course the balance has tipped too much this season away from attack but he wasn't this passive when he first took over Arsenal. You have to remember it's a season where every side is churning out confusing performances, so Arsenal being toothless for an extended run is hardly the most bizarre thing of the season. Also, I hate it when people blindly throw numbers when it's not relevant- he bought none of the players you named and Pepe being £72m down the drain is not something to criticize him for.
It's skewing the stats. Emery had a strong win 55% win percentage for Arsenal but was far from good enough in the league. It was propped up by 70% win % in Europa League, which he's known for. He was the same with Sevilla, good in Europa League but terribly underperforming domestically.
Arteta scores less and is more passive, but he has turned Arsenal into a far more resolute side than Emery did. As I said Arteta is building foundations at the club and you can see the progress in how much trickier it is to score against them, how more aggressive they are and so on. He walked in and saw what a sorry pile of shit they are by way of aggression, application and set pieces. He's organized them and brought in set piece specialists to work on their defending and offensive returns from those areas (and it shows in the stats too). But to suggest that's all they are when he's barely 1 year into the role is a bit primitive, especially considering he's had little in the way of a budget relative to Ole or Lampard.
I think one seriously odd move he made was insisting on Aubameyang wide. But as I say the level of criticism his way is overcooked.
Amazing how you don't see why that's the case. Ole spent almost 200m in year 1, and then another 50-70m in season 2. He also has 2 years completed in the role compared to just 1 with Arteta. Jesus christ.
I honestly dont think another reasonable manager in the role would do any worse. He has stopped a fraction of the goals conceded by abandoning all attacking intent. Its mind boggling.
The point is his football is too passive than it needs to be. Even the likes of west ham outplayed him this season. Like I said full marks for fixing the defense but their attack has gone off the boil and for the talent they possess they should do well. People act as if he is managing Fulham and is fighting relegation battle. Don't think he should be sacked or anything but he has to be scrutinized. Arsenal are a big club (not at United or City's level) and should be judged accordingly.
Yeah I agree this season specifically its been too passive. You have to take some portion to match rhythm though, we are shit going forward, City look toothless, Liverpool are inconsistent, etc. So there's an element of the season just being random.
And sure there is a material element of Arteta being too cautious. I agree. But my point is, the criticism is a bit over the top all things considered. For example you have compared him to approaching games like he has Fulham, and yet his league position isn't exactly relegation either.
And today is an odd reason to have the thread bumped to suggest he's too passive generally. He went a man down and didn't park the bus. He got lucky with conceding lots of chances in no small part because he set arsenal out to nick a goal with saka aubameyang and Nelson. So he actually had a bullish reaction to the red card rather than a park the bus one.
A few weeks ago a bunch of people in here put him two whole tiers above Ole
That was some silly newspaper article.
I was thinking about the "Rank the PL managers" thread.
Can't help but think that Ole would have been slaughtered if he were playing the way Arsenal are. At least with United there has been some genuinely excellent attacking play. There was a period late last season where United were almost unplayable offensively. Arteta is playing almost like Steve Bruce, keep it tight and hope our quality up front produces something for us. Shouldn't be good enough for Arsenal.
Where do you think they'll finish in the league this season? I really can't see them higher than 8th and they could struggle to get that.
I think that period where United were playing like the best attacking team in Europe, Bayern aside, is what is really affording him extended time to find the right balance again. It wasn't a short brief period either. It went for months since pre-lockdown.
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It’s actually mental how defensive he’s been this season. Arsenal would have scored more goals under Big Sam genuinely.
The thing is though, he hasn't even made them more solid, it's a myth. Martinez managed to go from a serial loan army player to earning a big money transfer with a months worth of performances, if the defense were that good he wouldn't have had the chance to make such a big career jump so quickly. Most of their "battling" results (like yesterday) have come because of Leno/Emi, not outstanding defensive displays.
Exactly
He actually was though, he played us twice in his first month and apart from the first 25-30 minutes of the first game parked the jumbo jet throughout.
Wolves spurs next the likes of everton Southampton chelsea on the way too. Job will be on the line soon imo if he doesnt step up.
Which is why I keep telling you they need creative player because that was one of their main issue last season that they struggle to create chances. If they have money they would have sign the expensive one Grealish or the cheaper one Aouar, they need those type of players.
One of those mythical people in football who get away with being bang average
Not much in the papers, pundits talk like he’s Pep version 2 yet is one of the most defensive coaches in the league, really weird one. Everybody talks like he’s doing an outstanding job I just don’t see it.
Not much in the papers, pundits talk like he’s Pep version 2 yet is one of the most defensive coaches in the league, really weird one. Everybody talks like he’s doing an outstanding job I just don’t see it.
The funny thing is that while we say that hes a defensive coach, even defensively really that good. Sure, on the face of it, it seems that they've improved, but if you look at their xGA, it's better than just 6 teams in the league - the 3 newly promoted teams, SHU, Newcastle and Pool.
So, I'm not sure what is he actually good at
Grealish plays on the left and was way too expensive which is why, as I said, they would never go for him.
Also priority was always an energetic cm, which is why as I said again, they would focus the funds there first (Partey over Auoar wfh faced the choice on focusing funds).
Because he played Chelsea. I'm referring to his approach against lesser teams not being as passive as it is this season.
Which is why I said if they have cash, they would have gone for him. Because Grealish is a ''creative player'' who can player different position ''left & no 10'' and Arsenal really needs that type of player. If you watch them play since last season under Arteta, you won't argue with the fact how much they need quality creative player.
It's not just about tactics though. It's too simplistic a view. He played 433 today, he had 2 attacking full backs, Willock, Auba, Pepe & Willian all on the pitch, so I refuse to believe that he wants us to play so uncreative.
Reality is our forward players are either short of confidence or just not good enough. Its ok saying they are all expensive players, but they've been spread over 3 or 4 years, none are his signings, & we all agree the money has been spent poorly. There is a lack of balance in the front 3, Auba & Laca are pure finishers, Pepe & Willian have been big disappointments. Its not just creativity, there's no-one in that 4, adept at even holding the ball up or playing with their back to goal to help bring others into play like Ollie Watkins did the other week.
We are similar to how Utd were pre Fernandes last season. A bit lost, a bit toothless, nothing just seems to quite knit together. I think the signing of Fernandes shows how just signing that 1 player CAN make a massive difference, (I'm not saying that's going to be the case for us). It's also not like Arteta didn't want to, he wanted to sign Aouar in the summer. If he managed Chelsea, he would have had him, unfortunately that's the difference between managing Arsenal & managing Chelsea, they can go out & get nearly all their managers targets. Instead, we need to go half a season without & look at cheaper alternatives like Szoboszlai in the winter. It's not a moan, it's a realisation thats where we are and we can't fix all our issues in 1 window.
You were wrong in the end because they showed they had Grealish sort of cash but were going to prioritize other areas first which is why Partey + Gabriel came through the door before Grealish would have for a similar sum.
As I said then, and as Arsenal did, the priority was always £70-80m on improving defence and midfield before looking at the creators. He's building the foundations first and then will look at the creators - I'm not denying he needs one. I'm denying it was a bigger priority than shoring up the team.
No because their net spend this summer is around 50m, that alone wasn't enough to bring Grealish. But the argument was always been among the top 6 teams, Arsenal needs Grealish more than the others which something you keep missing it and blindly making argument.
Net spend is hardly relevant, and you didn't seem to clarify net spend at the time either - we all knew they were going to have outgoings so obviously 70-80m kitty would be enabled by some out the door. It's a no brainer.
And no, Arsenal certainly needed a center back and an energetic more than they needed Grealish and you keep missing it. That's why as expected, Arsenal went out and brought in those sorts of players before considering a creator like Grealish.
As I've already said, Arteta has swung his balance too far into the passive form of play. He has Lacazette, Aubameyang, Saka as examples of very attacking + creative outlets with Ceballos too. Others like @AshRK for example have eluded to Arteta having better quality in his squad to show for a better style of play which is one of the points I agree with. These players are more than capable of creating an expansive dimension so it's up to the manager to fix that balance now (for them it's only 9 games in).
What we're sure on however, is Mari/Sokratis/Mustafi/Luiz alone would be no way near fecking enough quality to match the top 6. The fact that they actually acted in the manner I said they would shows that that they were never going for a creator at the cost of ignoring the defence/CM. So lets just leave it there because the window has passed and it ended up pretty much how I said for them.
How the hell has he managed to neuter their striker? One I would certainly have in our team in fairness.
Why doesn't he bite the bullet and actually play Ozil ?
He can't now, he's not been registered for the EPL.
They were quite bad at Old Trafford too, I couldn’t get all the praise they were getting from pundits then. It was almost as if they were playing a top team and ground out a win with tactical masterpiece, it wasn’t. We were bad as always and they capitalized on Pogba’s foolish foul. Crystal Palace were much more impressive in the opening game of season.
I didn’t think Emery’s side was actually all that bad. It seems expectations were not really matching with resources which resulted in the wrong perception that they were underachieving.
I didn’t think Emery’s side was actually all that bad. It seems expectations were not really matching with resources which resulted in the wrong perception that they were underachieving.
Good grief, isn't Ozil someone who could actually supply Auba, though?
It's relevant because how are you going to get that minimum extra 70m from? It tells you no money. Although I also did say they need DM (Partey) first so I never say they don't need DM.
He could, but he made a decision that Ozil wasn't the way he was looking to go, that he wasn't as committed as the others in training & in games, & I suppose he'll have to live or die by that decision.
It's not relevant because they had accumulated Grealish sort of money in the window and did not buy Grealish, nor a creative outlet. And they did that because they wanted to prioritize the central midfield and then the defence.
What you said is irrelevant to my point. They really need top class creative player, among the top 6, the ones who is weakest in this department is Arsenal that's the point.
They got no ''top class'' creative player and that's why they have only scored 1 goal & 0 open play goal in their last 5 league games. 1 goal in 5 league games isn't bullshit or my opinion, it's actually fact. You can't argue with fact with just your own opinion.
I kind of agree with you if they actually wanted they could have easily gone for Grealish, they went ahead and actually paid Partey's release clause of 45m which is quite an outlay in one go when you consider the Covid situation.
That was a utterly ludicrous call. I wonder who would have had to miss out in their squad list to make room for Ozil.
It's not irrelevant. What I said was that they needed a CM and defender more than they needed a creative outlet (even while accepting all 3 will improve the side).
And guess how they prioritized? Now move on.
Exactly, and not just Grealish but even a cheaper creative player (Auoar) was de-prioritized as they focused on Gabriel + Partey to solidify the side and build from bottom up. Arteta has had one window, mind. He will undoubtedly go for a creator but it wasn't a priority for his first window.
It's irrelevant because you were replying to my post at that time so I don't give a feck your opinion, I care more with fact.
What I said was they need top class DM & top class creative player. And guess what happened now? They didn't sign top class creative player and they are struggling now, 1 goal & 0 open play goal in 5 league games. It's fact, you shouldn't be arguing with fact.