Very weird signing and that too for an insane amount. The fact that he is looking to make him a xhaka replacement makes it even more weird.Hope he won't be another managerial casuality of generational talent havertz..
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Probably the thought process behind this signing may be having rice allow them to play aggressive two cams in Odegaard and havertz.
But Rice didnt play the role of cdm in a possession oriented dominant team. He always had players along side him and behind him to give protection in west ham and England team. At arsenal with havertz and Odegaard with high line defenders I don't think he will get much protection.
May be I am wrong and rice can give enough protection for arsenal. But it's new to him and not much quick to do all on his own.
If I’m honest, I was delighted to hear Arsenal signing him and for such a large amount of money too.Hope he won't be another managerial casuality of generational talent havertz.
Rice is a ball winner but he almost always had Soucek or Philips next to him. He would be better playing with Xhaka than replacing him.
Why would anyone want a manager that's likeable to opposition fans? No opposition fan should like any rival manager ffs.
I think his biggest weakness is how much of an annoying cnut he is
that was Brenton's downfall at Liverpool, although admittedly he was a much bigger one
the players bought into it for a good while but as soon as the cracks appeared they downed tools
that was Brenton's downfall at Liverpool, although admittedly he was a much bigger one
the players bought into it for a good while but as soon as the cracks appeared they downed tools
Not really, there are some nice managers. I think the likes of Potter or Howe are fine. I don't think anyone complained about Ancelotti even when he was Chelsea manager, etc.
If their team plays crap, they are not afraid to admit it, and they certainly don't do as much moaning to refs as this guy.
Arteta also has this habit of almost getting on the pitch and barely staying in his place, which I have no idea why refs let him get away with.
Overall, he has improved them, but let us see if he can keep it going.
Not surprising, given you use the term 'low key'.
Klopp’s a very likeable guy. And I cannot fecking stand Liverpool. Wenger always seemed like a decent sort too.
What? Since when?
Since covid, when he was excellent talking about the pandemic. Plus in general he seems like fairly smart and interesting dude.
He’s an absolute cnut 99% of the time.
The 1% of the time where he’s not talking about Liverpool or Liverpool related things he’s ok.
Yeah, I find Klopp generally okay, massive hypocrite but which top manager isn't?. His touchline behavior might annoy some but I don't watch enough of their games to really catch it, and he's not as aggressive in his "cnutishness" against us. Compared to Arteta and it's night and day.
Out of interest, what is Mr Lego doing in that documentary?
Couldn’t care less if he is likeable or not. The vast majority of successful managers aren’t. However what he is definitely NOT so far is successful. The real test starts now. It will be very interesting to see how they do this season both domestically and in Europe. They were bad for a longer period at the end of last season despite having no other games than PL. The step from mid table to top 4 is much easier than the step from top 4 to the top.
On being likeable, Klopp is generally not liked by rival fans. Fergie was mostly very disliked by a lot of rival fans.
In terms of highly successful managers I can only think of Ancelotti who is mostly not disliked even by rival fans. But that has a lot to do with his personality and character. He is generally a rather calm but also laid-back person. Which can also be seen on the pitch. He mostly has the same emotions regardless if they are winning or losing. The same emotions regardless if they scored a winner or conceded a goal which lost them the game. And his laid-back personality can also be seen in his teams’ 2nd season performances. Most of his teams perform significantly worse the following season after winning the league/CL.
On being likeable, Klopp is generally not liked by rival fans. Fergie was mostly very disliked by a lot of rival fans.
In terms of highly successful managers I can only think of Ancelotti who is mostly not disliked even by rival fans. But that has a lot to do with his personality and character. He is generally a rather calm but also laid-back person. Which can also be seen on the pitch. He mostly has the same emotions regardless if they are winning or losing. The same emotions regardless if they scored a winner or conceded a goal which lost them the game. And his laid-back personality can also be seen in his teams’ 2nd season performances. Most of his teams perform significantly worse the following season after winning the league/CL.
I don't know I just feel like you guys didn't need to go out and spend huge amounts on players, although I do think Rice is going to be fantastic for you. The strategy seemed to have been working but I don't pay enough attention to Arsenal to know if that was truly the case or not. The Havertz one though I will never understand.
Klopp definitely isn't likeable. He's a caricature who only shows his happy go lucky side when it suits him. Most of the time he's a miserable prick who jumps down journalists' throats if they dare to question him.
I'm sure if the players we wanted were available for cheaper, Arteta would have gone that route. Also, the market has inflated hugely (just like everything else) in the past 2 years. In the past Arteta has taken chances on relatively cheaper options (eg Vieira for £35mil, Lokonga for £15mil) that haven't worked out, though looks like he hasn't given up on Vieira yet. He's gone with experiened but still young players in Havertz and Rice, who are already in PL. Much less risky than taking on youngsters from lower tier leaguess, so you inevitably pay for that. We also didn't previously have the funds to spend like this due to being out of CL for so long and a high wage bill. We got that under control and now that we're back in CL, can allow to loosen the purse strings as our revenue will go up. Inevitably, our wage bill will go up too, but it will be in line with a CL club.
But surely the worry is if this season was a flash in the pan or a genuine evolutionary step. I think Rice is going to be a fantastic buy for you lot though. I suppose you guys may have just gotten lucky with the signings of Odegaard, Partey, Tomiyasu, Gabriel, etc where they were all under 50 million. I just figured that was the budget you guys were going for, similar to how City were for years where that seemed the max they would pay for a player. You think the pressure is going to be on Arteta this season to win some silverware? Will he be sacked if you guys falter in the league?
There's always that worry but it's good to know the club/owners are continuing to build/improve the team. If we made no significant signings then we probably can't expect to do any better than last season. In fact, you'd probably expect to do worse as we have CL to contend with now. It was clear that our biggest issues last season were lack of depth and experience - I think our squad (at least on paper) has improved in both regards. I feel we probably have to properly address Xhaka's departure though.
And no, I don't think he'll be sacked this season unless we drop out of top 4 and have a poor showing in CL. It'll have to be disastrous for the Kroenkes to abandon the plans they've obviously heavily committed to.
fecking get in Mikel!!!! Gerrin!!!!!
Definitely a flukey season in that so many other clubs (Liverpool, Chelsea, United) were in transition. Arsenal's xPts had them about 20 behind where they finished up. It's unlikely those two things reoccur. Top four and a decent account in UCL would be success for Arteta this year after not being consistently a European competitor for so long. Putting themselves in the mix with City, Liverpool, Chelsea and United is progress.
How do you have a flukey season, pray tell?
It might not reoccur, but that doesn’t make it flukey. Arsenal we’re simply very good for most of the season, but ultimately fell off towards the end. You don’t fluke your way to 84 points. They may have gotten quite a few late wins, but that’s usually something you associate with title winning sides - staying composed and continuing to play their style until they found the openings.
They have a completely different challenge this year, and I do agree with your criteria for success.
No CL, no major injuries until the end of the season, early exits on cup competitions, undeserved late injury time winners, Haaland needing time to gel with the squad, Partey being available for selection, World Cup winter break.
Had Europa League, must have missed our main striker being out for 3 months and the likes of Zinchenko, Smith Rowe and Tomiyasu missing big chunks, early exit from cups isn't flukey, there's a reason it was called Fergie Time, Haaland scoring rate was ridiculous early on, a player being available isn't flukey, a World Cup 'break' when we were playing so well before it and lost our best striker for 3 months is flueky?
Finishing second in a season you would typically finish 4/5th in.
84 points on the table is certainly an amount 4/5th placed teams typically get.
I mean it was a flukey season, surely even Arsenal fans can't dispute that? Lots more time to train and recover than most of their direct competitors, lot less games, in what was a gruelling, one of a kind season. It's ok to recognise that - it's called having a brain.
The cope is delicious
Imagine we win an actual trophy
Imagine we win an actual trophy
Getting 84 points usually has you finishing 4th or 5th?
Why is getting knocked out the cup competitions 'flukey' though?
Are we meant to say Man Utd were flukey that they got knocked out the Europa League?
We played less games than Utd and City, did we play a lot less than Liverpool, Newcastle, Chelsea, Spurs etc? They were all flukey that they were mostly poor in the cup competitions?
Nah you're right you were great. You'll finish at worst second next season, will probably win the league after thrashing an up-for-it City in a super competitive Cup final.
See, that's a massive jump from what I said. I didn't say anything about how we will do next season. I'm merely asking how our previous season was deemed flukey and got some weird reasons.
World class bellend is Arteta. Clown.
What you and your fellow Arsenal fans are saying is mostly nonsense. You get super defensive about anything that is levelled at the team, and are incapable of seeing how much of an advantage your lads and Arteta had with recuperation. It wasn't even just about the gross amount of games (though it was a big factor), it was about the space between games at a key time during the season, allowing you to train and work tactically rather barely recuperate before the next 90mn. It's a boring conversation, it's absolutely blatant to see (it was obvious at the time and it's as clear in retrospect), and this insecurity that anything negative said about your team needs to be discussed to no end as if it negates any successes the team has had, is frankly tiring.
You played some good football for large parts of the season, you have some young exciting talents, but yeah you had a flukey season that enabled you to finish second. So what?
Yet our best form of the season was when we had Europa League games, and our worst form was when we were out all the competitions, so not sure how that argument holds sway?
We get super defensive because the points we hear don't make sense, that's all, and yes it is tiring hearing these daft reasons why.
You choked for certain games at the tail end of the season, because of mentality issues. It still doesn't change that overall you had a much easier schedule than everyone else - had it been similar to others, you just would've likely crumbled even more. The first half of the season also had some very flukey results with last minute winners in games where you barely deserved a draw, and you were massively outperforming all your underlying stats - which wasn't going to last either.
The points don't make sense because they don't fit into your pre-made narrative of the team having made constant progress over the years. They make sense to many other people because there's a less passionate take about it.
Is it a normal part of football now that fans calculate the amount of rest their rivals have between games to calculate how much of advantage they get?
This is just a product of football tribalism. Another team has success? Worse still a rival? Easier to brush it off as potluck, a fluke, dismiss it as a flash in the pan.
Undeniably, however, Arsenal have taken a massive leap forward from where we have been in recent history and Arteta deserves huge credit. Arsenal fans can see it in the performance every week, we’ve taken the proverbial step up. The fact opposition fans “care” about us again is a good sign, too. For a decade or more we weren’t even in the conversation. I take the little jabs and wishful thinking as wins for us as a club. It feels like we’re back at the head table.
Whether that will be sustained to the degree we’re title challengers for the foreseeable remains to be seen. But we were last season and the league table doesn’t lie, as cliché as it is, a 38 game campaign irons out the wrinkles. Our point haul throughout most of the year was enough to put us in with a shout in any season, regardless of what our competitors might have done.
I was actually a little pessimistic heading into this season. I don’t feel as though we had a particularly good preseason. This time last year, for instance, we were flying on all cylinders and were well placed to hit the ground running. Which we did. This year we’ve been very experimental, a little disjointed, the new signings haven’t quite jelled, but I was encouraged with what I saw yesterday.
This coming season just feels a little more open than prior years. City are undoubtedly favourites again, but they’ve lost some depth and starters, haven’t really brought in anyone to move the needle (yet). I’d expect Arsenal, Liverpool and United to give a decent account of themselves behind the treble winners. Newcastle could easily kick on again, but are obviously fresh into their development, Spurs it feels are a step below and who knows what to expect from Chelsea.
Excited for the season ahead.
Undeniably, however, Arsenal have taken a massive leap forward from where we have been in recent history and Arteta deserves huge credit. Arsenal fans can see it in the performance every week, we’ve taken the proverbial step up. The fact opposition fans “care” about us again is a good sign, too. For a decade or more we weren’t even in the conversation. I take the little jabs and wishful thinking as wins for us as a club. It feels like we’re back at the head table.
Whether that will be sustained to the degree we’re title challengers for the foreseeable remains to be seen. But we were last season and the league table doesn’t lie, as cliché as it is, a 38 game campaign irons out the wrinkles. Our point haul throughout most of the year was enough to put us in with a shout in any season, regardless of what our competitors might have done.
I was actually a little pessimistic heading into this season. I don’t feel as though we had a particularly good preseason. This time last year, for instance, we were flying on all cylinders and were well placed to hit the ground running. Which we did. This year we’ve been very experimental, a little disjointed, the new signings haven’t quite jelled, but I was encouraged with what I saw yesterday.
This coming season just feels a little more open than prior years. City are undoubtedly favourites again, but they’ve lost some depth and starters, haven’t really brought in anyone to move the needle (yet). I’d expect Arsenal, Liverpool and United to give a decent account of themselves behind the treble winners. Newcastle could easily kick on again, but are obviously fresh into their development, Spurs it feels are a step below and who knows what to expect from Chelsea.
Excited for the season ahead.
