Again, a mention of how Arsenal have spent £300M when the likes of Utd & Chelsea have spent at least the same if not more.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Again, a mention of how Arsenal have spent £300M when the likes of Utd & Chelsea have spent at least the same if not more.
Why didn't you hire one ?One season of finishing ahead of United (who had no manager) and we are subjected to this nonsense
Why didn't you hire one ?
The one we wanted wasn’t available? What United do or don’t do has no baring on the discussion about Arsenal though.
I often wonder what age group is posting when they are unable to accept any criticism of their club (on a rival forum I might add) without the playground “yes but United did this or United did that”.
Its bizarre and extremely childish. Just deflecting from having to engage in discussion about the actual point raised.
This feels like a weird fight where no one wins... but since SAF left United have won an FA Cup, a League Cup and the Europa League. We've won 4 x FA Cups. Neither side has challenged for the title.One season of finishing ahead of United (who had no manager) and we are subjected to this nonsense
All the laughing emojis in the world won't change the fact that whatever tier you're placing Arsenal in - that is United's level.
The question was why aren't Arsenal competing with United? It literally was the actual point raised. It's just an odd question about a team that's just finished 11 points ahead of you and has performed fairly similarly for nearly a decade.
It's like "your most shit", "no your most shit", meanwhile City and Liverpool fans are laughing saying your both shit!
I didn’t ask you any questions and have no idea or interest in your discussion.
Just find the constant childish inability to accept any criticism really odd.
And so should he be is my point. The whole idea that some arsenal fans are creating that finishing top 4 is beyond his reach is what one should stop. The expectation should be top 4 or bust, nothing else. But again we are talking in circles now
I know you didn't, it was in response the AshRK...
The question seemed to be 'Why isn't Arteta expected to compete with... the clubs he is competing with?' I found the United example especially odd for obvious reasons.
You see that as a childish inability to accept criticism. I didn't even view it as criticism - just as a statement that didn't seem to make a great deal of sense.
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It's exactly this.
Right now we're one of four teams gunning for the third and fourth spots. Hopefully we can achieve that and start competing for the big prizes in the next few years. But at least two big of The Big Six™ will miss out every year and that doesn't include the likes of Leicester or West Ham having good season and the looming threat of Newcastle. It's gonna be an even more competitive landscape in years to come.
But it’s not always this simple is it? The yardsticks have to be amended to different circumstances and shifting variables. Arteta is not operating with the same Arsenal team against the same opponents in the same year against the same managers etc etc etc… I always find this idea a bit too simplistic as an absolute metric. Yes, it can act as a reliable gauge, especially if standards fall alarmingly, but it really isn’t this simple in my opinion.
You're all over the place and this close to bite your own tail growling. As usual when there is nothing of value to add, resort to "tHis OUr fOrum!"
The argument has been done to death. No matter how often anyone talks about the money Arsenal spent, you need to take into account that everyone else spent close or more than that be it in transfer fees, wages, total package whatever. And that will create a status-quo or "competition". Last year we competed, beat United and lost to Spurs and Chelsea. So what ?
One or two characters aside, this is what everyone has accepted happened.
You love that Arteta is our manager, you "don't care", but yet cannot stop trashing him and hoping Arsenal fans join you in this pointless war. We've accepted we could have been fourth and failed. We've also accepted that we tried the "sign big win now" strategy and failed even harder. They're now trying something else, less glamorous, less flashy (in terms of players calibre, not money obviously) and most fans are genuinely excited to see where it leads us. I'd rather that the club bashing its head into signings overpriced 350k pw players for years and wondering why it's not working (no club in particular in mind).
If you have no interest in Arteta, Arsenal, what they do or the topic then what are you doing ? Wumming ? Because, that, would be bizarre and extremely childish.
I actually wonder why the signing of experienced players like Luis and Wilian failed. The idea to bring in experienced players to help out the young squad makes sense, but it failed big time. Ibrahimović was a success for Man Utd, and also Larsson for Barcelona.
Well what is the yardstick then? If he's had nearly 4 years (at the end of next season) in the job and financial backing neither of his predecessors had, shouldn't the minimum expectation be Champions League football?
That was always the expectation for Wenger, and it was for Emery as well. Benefit of the doubt surely can't last 5 years just because Arteta is a young manager.
I wouldn't say Luiz was a failure. We knew of his "moments" before but overall he gave us a lot of very solid performances and stabilized a decaying defense. It's just that he should have been in addition to another good CB and played less. Willian was stupid all the way, everyone knew he was riding along at Chelsea. It's a godsend that he was insanely humble and walked without a fuss. He was entitled to bleed us for his whole contract.
Ibra and Larsson were way better players than these too.
So probably bad scouting. Edu has been doing a bit better lately. We still need a cover for Partey, unless Edu/Arteta thinks Lokonga is ready for that role.
Nah. Arteta has a long term project and all that.
There you go, the target is officially top 4 this season just like everyone's been saying for the last 12 months. Could have been done last season, but he/we failed.
If bust is sacking Arteta, again, it's been repeated many many times, the way it happens will play a role. Say we ended up with a repeat of last season, 99% would say he's gone. Add an FA Cup and i'd say still 75% would want him replaced. CL in any way and he's still there in 23/24 obviously.
The statement makes complete sense due to the excuses prepared for Arteta. Talking about wages to counter spending is one of the lamest thing. Ideally it should be top 4 or bust for Arteta this season especially if you are competing against sides who are themselves not that amazing but I have already read different theories presented against that to make an excuse for a manager who has been at this club for close to 3 years and spent 300 plus million. Wages should have no bearing to that. We freaking offer crazy wages to our player, how does that automatically makes us a favorite for top 4 especially after we finished 6th is beyond me.
Again we all have been talking in circles. For Rival fans they see the benchmark for Arteta this season should be Top 4 or bust (or europa), for Arsenal fans (at least most), they don't mind if he misses out on top 4 again because United have spent more wages and Spurs have Conte and Chelsea are Chelsea.
This is where the debate lies.
TIL wages are not spending. They are magical numbers with no impact on the financial stability of a business.
The second part is just a lie, they would mind but it depends how and why. Nothing is black or white, if blindly spending meant instant success you'd be back on top.
You're being intentionnaly obtuse, various posters answered your questions but still half of your posts start with "i don't understand how/why...", "i haven't seen an explanation of...". Just read, try to understand it and if you still disagree then so be it. No need to make up fairy tales of imaginary fans smiling at Arsenal finishing 6th,7th or 14th.
Wumming it is then. No need to apologize, childrens need to have their fun !
Which Arsenal fans “wouldn’t mind” if we miss out on Top 4? I know I would. As would most of those in this chat.
Where there might be disagreement is whether we’d all agree that Arteta MUST be sacked if we finish, for example 5th.
For myself, many of the Arsenal fans posting here and, most importantly, our owners - the answer is ‘it depends on a range of factors - league position being just one of them’.
Some of those factors include performance, recruitment, squad harmony and player development. If there was progress in these areas, Arteta could very well keep his job even if four other teams finished ahead with of him. Particularly if those four teams had access to greater resources than him. Wages generally correlate to league position far more closely than transfer spend. (Feel free to call that fact an excuse if it makes you feel better).
The interesting thing is that you’d think the people who have the strongest opinions on this subject would be Arsenal’s fans and owners. We’re the most invested, both emotionally and financially.
But instead the most definitive and emotive statements about the what the fate of Arteta must be are coming from United fans. It’s fascinating.
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Incredibly annoying to see an Arsenal thread constantly at the top of the feed.
Since Arteta came in, Arsnal have spent the 3rd most among all clubs
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tra...os=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0&plus=0
And in terms of Net, Arsenal have spent the highest amount.
Now, I'm not saying that he inherited a WC squad, but if you're spending that amount, surely you'd expect better league finishes, or more criticism than he gets.
And as far as the wages argument is concerned, atleast till 2020, your wage bill was among the highest in Europe, and this is despite you not having been in CL that season.
https://theathletic.com/2717019/202...orld-to-on-a-par-with-ac-milan-and-tottenham/
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tra...os=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0&plus=0
And in terms of Net, Arsenal have spent the highest amount.
Now, I'm not saying that he inherited a WC squad, but if you're spending that amount, surely you'd expect better league finishes, or more criticism than he gets.
And as far as the wages argument is concerned, atleast till 2020, your wage bill was among the highest in Europe, and this is despite you not having been in CL that season.
https://theathletic.com/2717019/202...orld-to-on-a-par-with-ac-milan-and-tottenham/
I am sure Josh and Edu are well aware of the figures and both of them have talked about their expectation for Arteta recently.
Top of the league for once
tbf they always start the season top of the league.
Yep, this is all correct and there is definitely going to be pressure to deliver. The only context I would add is that is our having a very high wage bill as late as 2020 despite being outside the CL is something Arteta inherited that tied both his and Edu’s hands. The situation was utterly unsustainable.
Arteta rebuilt our squad while slashing costs. That’s why I’d say he’s doing alright. Wenger, on the other hand, did the same while keeping us in the CL almost every year. That’s clearly a tier above Arteta and the level he needs to reach.
Zero points is how they'll finish it
Unfair to include spend for a season that has not even started when evaluating Arteta.
Spurs will be slightly ahead of Arsenal when the purchase options for Kulusevski and Romero are taken up. United are also artificially low because the Bruno purchase fee isn't included (which certainly occurred after Arteta took the job) and because United likely has more remaining business this summer than any other top six club.
At this point the wage bill is a lot lower than City/United/Chelsea/Liverpool. There are really two groupings at the top of the PL - those four with huge wage bills, then Spurs and Arsenal about 100m lower.
In sum, Arteta started with the 6th best roster among the top six sides, by the end of the summer Arsenal will have spent probably the 4th or 5th most on transfer fees, and spent the 5th most on wages.
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It’s because @TheReligion is constantly WUM’ing in here. Making outlandish statements, attempting to catch a bite (which of course he will, this is the arsenal thread) and then literally admitting he has no intention of discussing anything.
Completely derailing the thread with obtuse exaggerated posts and a sea of laughing emojis.
Eventually you will realize it is pointless to respond to these posts. Arteta, Edu and Josh are on the same page, fans are behind the management and the club. There is no need to defend anything.
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Serves you right for being as shit as us for almost 10 years.
This is a bit irrelevant to the discussion seeing as we're saying how over the past 2 years we've tried to drastically cut our wage bill.
It’s because one horrendous season has brought confirmation bias to the fore.One season of finishing ahead of United (who had no manager) and we are subjected to this nonsense
Sorry I’m not allowed to post in here anymore as the Arsenal fans get really vexed.