Yeah to be honest Saka, ESR etc look burnt out. It doesn't seem fair to rely so heavily on them for goals and creativity when they're so young.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Yeah to be honest Saka, ESR etc look burnt out. It doesn't seem fair to rely so heavily on them for goals and creativity when they're so young.
A bang average job?
I wasn't aware that was 'the narrative', I haven't really followed the debate in this thread. I'm just saying Arsenal being 5th is exactly what I'd expect. A manager doing very well might have gotten them 4th this season, a manager doing particularly badly might have gotten them 6th or 7th.
The problem is, Arsenal sacked Emery a few months into a season not long after he had Arsenal finish 5th on 70 points, after not being backed in the summer. Fast forward 2 and a half years, Arteta finished 8th twice, once after Emery being blamed for the bad first half of the season, then Arteta doing no better the season after. Then this season Arteta is about to finish 5th on less points than the Emery final full season, all while spending over £200m since being manager.
Not doing any better than Emery (actual done worse), while spending a lot of money in that time is actually pretty poor.
Emery reached European final too. Not only played in league alone.
They completely bottled it wiith the position they were in, was multiple games were they just didn't turn up. They've finished above us this year but they don't remotely scare me at all for next season.
No Europe helped them a lot in the second half of the season..
Won't have that luxury next season.
Won't have that luxury next season.
This is a pretty fair criticism. The only thing in Arteta’s favour is that he’s cleared out the dross and dramatically lowered the age of our squad.
This transfer window is huge for him and the club. We have serious deficiencies up front, in midfield and at full back. Also at centre back, but fortunately we have the Ligue 1 Young Player of the Year to slot in.
The team also seem overly coached. It looks like our players aren’t encouraged to think for themselves on the pitch. Doing so was a key aspect of Wenger’s style (though you could argue he sometimes took it too far). Under Wenger we were capable of making comebacks. This team crumbles as soon as things don’t go according to plan.
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Yep the only fanbase worse than liverpool. Cant stand them as a resultI’ve said it before that arsenal fans are the most delusional. Arsenal fan at work reckoned they’d rival City for Haaland if they get CL football because all Haaland has to do is talk to Odegaard and it would convince him
I mean certainly West Ham and Wolves and Spurs probably better, than yeah us and Arsenal weaker.
There’s no way Spurs have better options in central midfield than Arsenal. Extremely debatable about West Ham and Wolves too.
You have to remember that Arteta seems to make good players look less good. Every single international tournament Xhaka plays in he looks like one of the best CMs in the competition.
arsenal regularly get dry humped the minute they face a semi decent team - even in europa league- so the “Europe” excuse won’t last for long.
Prefer Spurs' depth and Hojberg playing 35 games.
Xhaka does look better for the Swiss, but he's been inconsistent for Arsenal for more than just Arteta.
West Ham don't have the depth, but their 2 main guys have been healthy. If Partey was healthy and played 35 times, then sure Arsenal.
Wolves is debatable yeah, cuz Mourinho too old, though Neves is good for a slow player, though 3 at the back helps him.
I’d take hojberg over any Arsenal CM.
He’s better than Xhaka because he’s more consistent. On his day Xhaka’s just as good. But that’s only one player. Partey surely better than the other options Spurs have in midfield. Arsenal have more depth.
If Partey plays there might be a debate, problem is Partey misses 50% of the games a season so far. So you are talking about Elneny, Xhaka & Sambi Lokonga behind that. Not rich pickings, and area that needs not 1 but 2 players I'd argue.
I’ve said it before that arsenal fans are the most delusional. Arsenal fan at work reckoned they’d rival City for Haaland if they get CL football because all Haaland has to do is talk to Odegaard and it would convince him
Aye they’re the worst. Hopefully the last couple of results have taken them down a peg or two, they were getting ideas way above their station.
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It’s hard to have much sympathy with Arsenal’s alleged midfield woes when you support Manchester United, believe me!
Yeah, I'm preaching to the converted, fair play.
I hear a lot of Arsenal fans complaining about running out of steam and the players being ran to the ground.
They've had one game a week since Jan....
They've had one game a week since Jan....
Maybe they’re all just tired of him waving his arms around like a cnut.
In the second half of the season they probably will have that luxury.
Can't wait for them to finish 14th next season .
.Seen Arsenal fans saying that it’s “a year too soon” and they would have taken 5th at the start of the year. What a load of bollocks. The only reason they are as high as 5th is because they’ve had no European football and Man United hit the self destruct button. Spurs have have a really turbulent season too and they have missed a golden opportunity.
Finishing 4th isn’t even that high especially when you’re miles of the league - it only takes 1 or 2 teams to have a mare and you’re in. They talk as though it’s some huge milestone you’re only able to conquer once you’re the real deal.
You have to take these opportunities and they haven’t. I consider it more likely they are back finishing 8th next season than top 4.
Finishing 4th isn’t even that high especially when you’re miles of the league - it only takes 1 or 2 teams to have a mare and you’re in. They talk as though it’s some huge milestone you’re only able to conquer once you’re the real deal.
You have to take these opportunities and they haven’t. I consider it more likely they are back finishing 8th next season than top 4.
And when things are going well we keep hearing about how great the likes of Ramsdale, Tierney, Martinelli, Saka and ESR (a few weeks ago social media was flooded with Arsenal fans excessively gloating about the latter two being the first under 21 double figure duo since Rooney and Ronaldo) are.
Yet as soon as they have a couple of shit results it's because the players are not good enough and Arteta needs to be backed (despite the fact almost all of that squad are his by either signing or contract extension).
Sounds like they need another meeting around the olive tree.
Why would a club like Arsenal be happy with 5th?
Because they simply aren't one of the big teams anymore. City, Liverpool, Chelsea and United are all much bigger from a financial perspective. Newcastle have just joined that club and Spurs are always around this conversation while Kane and Son are there. 5th is probably about as good as they can expect unless they find a gem of a manager and start recruiting really well.
I read a few weeks ago that the hierarchy is really happy with him and thinks he is ahead of his development, which is why he got a 3 year deal.
If they think he is ahead of where they should be, clearly they are happy with 5th after 3 years of being in charge.
I’m not sure which Arsenal fans are saying that Ramsdale, Tierney, Martinelli, Saka and ESR aren’t good enough. Many, myself included, think we can upgrade on Tavares, Soares, El Neny, Nketiah and Holding (all of whom have started crucial games for us in the run in).
And yes, Arteta does need to be backed because he only bought one of the second group of players (and even Tavares was an £8m punt).
There are tons of things to criticise Arteta for. There are also many reasons to laugh at Arsenal fans (there is a reason I’m on RedCafe and not Arsenal-Mania after all). But there is weird amount of straw-man arguments in this thread.
Out of that second group he also gave a new deal to Holding, Nketiah has confirmed he's been offered one and there's strong rumours El Neny is getting the same.
He can't be a victim of the squad now most if not all are his players by virtue of signing/extension/begged to stay.
I’m not suggesting he’s a “victim of the squad”. I’m just pointing out that the players we need to improve upon were here before Arteta started and aren’t the same players Arsenal fans are “excessively” happy with.
He’s almost certainly going to finish 5th (though if I had to pick a team to blow CL qualification by losing to an already relegated team… it would be Spurs). We’ve got the 5th highest wage bill and the 5th/6th strongest squad. Not amazing, but the sky also isn’t falling.
There's only so many players you can clear out, I think we have 16 or so first team players currently. Guys like Holding & El Neny are good to have in the squad because they aren't on too big wages, are professional, don't complain when they aren't playing. It's difficult to find players like that.
But they should be further down the pecking order. Holding should be 4th choice, hopefully Saliba coming in does that. El Neny shouldn't be the back up to Partey, he should be back up to the back up. Nketiah shouldn't be starting striker, he probably should be 3ed choice at best.
Maybe because they’ve finished 8th the last two seasons?
I actually agree with you, I'd say you probably have the 6th strongest squad in the league so finishing 5th isn't the end of the world. It's just the manner in which it (finishing 5th) has happened that has made most people react this way.
I just don't get the fan backing of Arteta, Emery also bottled top 4 in similar fashion and I seem to remember all Arsenal fans wanting him gone, it was only a matter of time for him after that.
Fair take.
I think the fan backing of Arteta is mainly due to him fostering a reconnection with the team. The atmosphere at the stadium has completely changed for the better. Although we’re getting laughed at by rival fans for it, we’re genuinely excited by the likes or Saka, Smith-Rowe, Martinelli and Odegaard. Hell, even Xhaka has had a redemption arc as, despite all his flaws, he clearly cares about the club. He is shaping a team that fans can get behind.
Everyone at Arsenal now views it as a privilege to wear the shirt. That’s as it should be, but it hasn’t always been the case in recent years. Arteta cleared out a lot of deadwood and the players that remain have all got the right attitude. We now desperately need to add both quality and quantity.
Not according to your captain they don’t.
I've said this before and I still believe Arteta's job is the safest of anyone in the PL after Klopp and maybe Pep.