And the table would look different if Arsenal had a functioning team for the whole season, but our first few games were awful because we didn't. Same for if we had a functioning striker.
See how silly this game is?
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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See how silly this game is?
You said we won’t be playing once a week. If you want to move the goalposts from the number of games to the level of opposition - go ahead. Still, I’ve watched dozens of dead rubber CL games where our kids and squad players have played against mediocre European sides. Knockout ties against domestic cups were often stiffer opposition.
You’re right, I missed the word “probably”, that’s my mistake.
Would the league table look different if two of the teams in that league played significantly differently? Yes, it would. Obviously. That’s true of literally every league in every season in history.
If Arsenal finish in the top four, do you think it will be mainly due to:
- Arsenal’s performances across the 38 games of the season?
- Or, the team that finished 7th in the 20/21 season finishing 5th this season?
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It's not silly at all, if you can't grasp context, I don't know what to say.
I'm sure you knew exactly what I meant by one game a week, I've mentioned Europe already in my previous posts. With regards to your question, I am of the firm belief that the sole reason Arsenal get 4th(if they do) is from us monumentally shitting the bed.
Is Pep just a PlayMobile Arteta?
I have no problem and to be honest do not care if other fans believe Arsenal "may' finish 4th only because Man Utd and Spurs are not at their usual level, or because Arsenal only plays once a week. I also have no issue people think Arteta is a poor manager, as it is for Arteta to prove people wrong. Manager/Head coach nowadays is as good as his last game. Arteta will have next season to prove himself to the board and the fans with European football. We will see how it goes.
I am looking forward to Amazon's All or Nothing Arsenal next season. Behind the scene Aubameyang's conflict with Arteta will be interesting to watch.
I am sure Leicester fans do not care about other teams not at their usual level, or they only played once a week when they won the league title.
I am looking forward to Amazon's All or Nothing Arsenal next season. Behind the scene Aubameyang's conflict with Arteta will be interesting to watch.
I am sure Leicester fans do not care about other teams not at their usual level, or they only played once a week when they won the league title.
“The sole reason”?!? While I’ve disagreed with a lot of what you’ve written, it has so far been coherent (my questions were mainly to clarify what you were saying).
But now I’m not sure whether or not you’re actually on the wind up. And I will never truly know for sure - I guess that’s the maddening beauty of the internet.
I think you might be pleasently surprised by this. I think the Kronke's are a bit more engaging with Edu & Arteta & realise the size of the task, & that if there isn't at least some investment you'll be overtaken by clubs that do.
European football of any sort should boost revenues on last season, & if they can get a Champions League finish it will significantly improve them. They've also managed to stabilise the wage bill will other clubs are rising, some quite significantly.
I also expect a fair amount of the loan army to finally leave, Mavropanos, Bellerin, Mari, Torriera, Guendouzi are all practically out the door & getting a wee drop in on sales, with the likes of Leno, Maitland-Niles, Nelson, & if the club can somehow sell Pepe they will be joining them, & of course the likes of Nketiah & Lacazette are out of contract.
Anyway, its more than just spending a lot, it's about spending it smart. There's lots of players out there with just 12 months on their deals for instance, Jesus, Tielemans, Bissouma, Aouar, Fabian Ruiz, Douglas Luiz, Asensio, Mukiele, Thuram, Caqueret all guys we've been linked to in the past. Some potentially shrewd players like Aaron Hickey of Bologna that we've just been strongky linked with that can cover both full back roles.
Edu has said they've already put the plans in for the summer & the board have approved, so let's see what they do, I think it should be exciting.
Happy to be proven wrong next season, Arteta will be in his third year of the job, if you have progressed so much then it should be handy enough to finish over a Utd team with a new manager and a Spurs team that definitely haven't improved with Conte(if he's even still there).Couldn't make it up.
You're already wrong mate.
Let's look at some numbers for Conor. We are talking whoever gets top 4 out of Arsenal & Spurs gets to the 70 point mark or there abouts.
- Utd has only got 70 points or more in 3 seasons post Fergie
- They've made the top 4 4 times post Fergie
- 2 of those times they got 70 points & 66 point totals
- They actually finished 2nd last year with 74 points.
Arsenal has been losing money in the last couple seasons and the owner invested heavily (in Arsenal standard) in Arteta & Edu to overturn the squad last summer. Arsenal is a business to the owner unlike the state backed club so if Arsenal finish 4th and qualify for CL next season Edu may have more fund to play with. Edu needs to be at his very best to bring in cheap unknown talent for Arteta as I don't think Edu can get much money back from the sale of the unwanted players on loan. I am perfectly happy to be wrong of course.
Other than Jesus I don't see any other rumor linked to Arsenal. I hope Nketiah stays and get more playing time, and Michael Olise from Palace to replace Pepe.
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Edu, Arteta, and Josh Kroenke have all said that they intend to spend significantly this summer, that the focus will be bringing in a few players of top quality, and that last summer was Phase 1 of the rebuild while this summer will be Phase 2. We also bid 60-70m for Vlahovic over the winter when CL football was looking unlikely.
I really don't see any reason to believe that we won't spend significant sums this summer, with or without CL football.
Do you actually think this?
If so, it really discredits everything else you've said. Spurs went from having the worst running stats in the league, to one of the best with him. They're 3rd in the form table after he took over on November 3rd with 1.9PPG, as opposed to being 9th before that with 1.5 PPG. They have now got a settled starting XI, although the wing backs are still in doubt.
That's a ridiculously bad take.
No, it was sarcasm, read the conversation I've been having with the poster I responded to, he seemingly thinks that it's made very little difference that Spurs sacked their manager and got Conte in last season.
Which is the truth.
Although crap and all as they often have been since Wenger left it’s rare enough for Arsenal to shit the bed quite as monumentally as United have this season. But yeah, if Arsenal and Spurs had got their shit together in any of those seasons there was no chance of us getting top four.
It’s definitely kept the top four title race interesting having the usual candidates repeatedly sign managers who aren’t up to the job. As soon as one of them finally gets a really top manager on board that will be the end of CL qualification after a season like Arsenal just had.
So, does Arteta not get any credit for keeping up with that despite having a relatively worse squad if you think Conte has done a good job? Baring in mind there was only 2 points difference when Conte took over, so since he took over we are on the same points?
Appreciate it takes a manager some time to get his methods across (not always, hence new manager bounce), but.. that is countered with Spurs bigger squad which most thing are better and also more experienced? People might say Spurs have played more games, but not really. We've played 30, they've played 32 in that period.
He of course gets some credit for doing a decent job, I just don't think that it's an incredibly impressive feat given the context, and I don't think he is going to make Arsenal a contender long term. If anything, I would flip your statement and say that it's impressive that Conte has been able to get Spurs to perform to a decent level so quickly.
At least tag me if you're going to try and talk shit. I would 100% agree with any sentiment regarding us only getting good placings in most of those instances due to weakness in the league, because I'm not deluded. You seem to think I just want to shit on Arsenal, but I'm just being realistic about what this top 4 actually means. When everyone outside of the top 2 is finishing miles behind them, with teams losing loads of games they shouldn't etc., then it is not as impressive a feat to achieve top 4 as it is when all teams are firing on all cylinders, and you get it purely from performance. Not sure why this is such a crazy thing to wrap your head around.
Why though? Many think Conte is a world class coach, and he definently has a good squad to work with. Coupled with the fact they spent £60m in January to boost the squad (which it has done), is it that surprising?
We've got to where we are with 3 strikers this season with a combined 8 goals in the premier league, coupled with the fact we weakened our squad in January if anything (I'm still annoyed we didn't sign anyone tbh).
Again, people can talk about the circumstances for Arsenal all they want, but Arteta has largely had a very good season. He had 3 blips, the start of the season (where we barely had a fit squad), the middle (United/Everton/Liverpool losses close together) and recently (where again we had a few injuries, and it took Arteta a few goes to get a balanced XI out).
I am disappointed with the Everton/United losses, but beyond that I can see progress all round, and where we've dropped points I understand why and hope we build on that next year with a better squad.
People are too harsh on Arteta, he's so early in his managerial career, that it will take time. He won't just suddenly be a top manager, he will make many mistakes along the way, it's about learning from them. I suppose Arsenal fans largely have some patience for that (not all fans though), whereas it seems rival fans don't really care.
So a great season apart from not doing so great during the… checks notes… beginning, middle and end of the season.
Poor Mikel. So harshly treated…
Again, just a pointless post. I explained what I meant. He had 3 rocky periods during this season, of which I can understand the reason behind two. As a fan i'm only really disappointed with the United/Everton period because I can't really explain that one.
If you just want to look at things in black and white, feel free. But i'd rather dig deeper into how we are actually performing and the reasons why we don't get results, and if that's solely down to Arteta or a mix of things.
People who make a comparison with Ole, I feel there is a bit of a difference in that with Ole I always thought he'd drop points out of nowhere and for no reason really, it just would happen. Similar things with United this year, they win some games which you don't think, then lose random ones.
Answer me this, do you think Arsenal would get top 4 if Conte had been there the whole season? Also, Utd fans have literally gone through the exact situation I'm talking about with Ole, so it's not that we have no patience, it's that it's easy to recognise similarities('progress', league standings, players seem happy).
Don’t forget the “cultural reset”.
Your nuanced explanation for these “rocky periods” seems to begin and end with him not having a fully fit squad all available for selection. Which is hard to take seriously considering it’s exactly the sort of thing every manager at every club has to deal with, repeatedly, every season.
But isn't arteta doing the same. Losing randomly to Palace, brighton, Southampton. Ole for all flaws achieved 2nd position while also reaching europa finals. Arteta is lucky this season that all his side had to do was focus on 38 games in PL.
Contract extended. Brilliant news. Arsenal will continue being a nonentity for any of the big trophies.
That's a tricky one tbh. But, yes I think we'd be up there. I mean, you have to think if you extrapolated his PPG for the whole season, he'd be on 65 points, and we'd currently be on 62 points. And part of me feels we'd have signed someone in Jan if it was that tight and we had ground to make up (although that's hypothetical).
But I have no issues with that point. Conte is a good manager, working with a better and more experienced squad. If he was there the whole season, you'd very much expect them to be above us. And next season, you'd probably expect Spurs to finish above us.
That's where the recruitment in the summer is key, and also hoping that Arteta can kick on as a manager, and some of the players can go up a level too, which is the benefit of having younger players I guess. I really hope having a striker who can actually score 15+ in the league will help.
So what does a coach that isn't Klopp or Pep need to do to actually be given credit if progress, league standings, and players seeming happy isn't enough?
Just seems like a depressing way of watching football. If you progress next season and the players seem happy, are you not going to give the coach credit just in case it ends up like it did under Ole?
Again, I said above, I can see reasons why we lost those games. Our starting XIs were just completely unbalanced, and as soon as we got 3 starters out our squad depth wasn't upto it. Which, is partly Artetas fault, but at least I can see he's learning from it hence the changes vs Chelsea and after.
I mean you just have to look at xG in those 3 games, it's not like we were outplayed (Palace apart where we were tbf, but that is a tough game regardless). We missed quite a few chances tbh, and conceded from sloppy errors at the back, but when you are missing Tomi, Tierney and Partey, and the replacements are Cedric, Tavares and Sambi, that can happen. Again, hoping improving the squad will help with that.
I mean even just bringing in Elneny has helped massively.
He has won silverware already and is on course to take the club back to the CL. Great decision by Arsenal, gives the club stability and Arteta the time to fully implement his rebuilding of the team.
They should’ve waited till this season, anyways their board seems to have settled with him
Ah great news.
But you could make arguments for any manager for their losses. The fact that arteta just like Ole has those periods of down results should be worrying for you guys. Also, if you are going to be very particular about how things could have been different against Southampton or Brighton, well then applying the same logic, you were massively lucky against United as well. Missed penalty, weird VAR calls. These things happen.
My take on arteta is he has to improve a lot. I still don't see a top manager in him but someone who is really fortunate to have ultimate authority at a club like Arsenal. He would have been sacked thrice by now if he were managing any other ambitious club.
You can't extrapolate PPG from a mid season start for a manager and compare them to a time where you have had a stable manager with players he wants, that understand his concepts, and have the fitness levels he requires. Conte with a full pre season and money to buy who he wanted would most likely wipe the floor with Arsenal(and us this season), and you would be outside the top 4 having had no European football, and Arteta's finishes would be 8th, 8th, 5th. Surely you would be asking questions at that point?
It's not about giving him no credit, it's about what you want from your team at the end of the day. If you're happy with Arsenal floating around the top 4 perennially, then enjoy Arteta's progression. If you want Arsenal to have a chance at winning the league, you really need to be bringing in one of the best managers in the world, you have the money to do so, If you'd brought in a better manager than Arteta after last season and given him 150m with no European football, who knows what state you could be in now, it's not like you're a broken bottom feeder that needs to rely on giving chances to former players. Many of us will have had the same opinion you have on Arteta for Ole, but it was just nonsense at the end of the day. It's not possible to do something like that and succeed in this league.
Can you? Like I said, I can't explain the United/Everton losses. But, I can explain the other two periods, which to be frank are largely down to us just not having a good enough squad.
We didn't really get luck vs United. The xG was slightly in our favour. The ONLY call which I think was lucky was the Cedric handball, but even then apparently the rules say that isn't a pen (not that I agree entirely). Every other call wasn't really luck. Bruno should have been sent off for example, nobody cares about that though.
Maybe he would have been sacked, but where has sacking managers got United/Spurs. Some short term success in prem finishes, but not a whole load of silverware and not any sustained progress. We are ambitious, if we weren't we wouldn't be spending money, and we would be selling Saka for £100m.
Brilliant news.
No.. why would I ffs.
You are seriously asking me if i'd be questioning Arteta finishing below a more experienced and better manager, with a much better squad (if you're saying he's signing his own players too)? Why on earth would I expect Arteta to finish above him with all those things in place? This is where people just have no logic. It's bizzare. I would hope that we can compete, but I wouldn't be calling for Artetas head, that's ridiculous.
No I can't just extrapolate PPG, but who knows what would have happened if he started the season in charge, so that's all ifs and buts.
Proof, if it was needed, at what a masterful job Arteta has done in lowering expectations.