I don’t think it would be. I’d still expect you to finish 4th despite the poor run under him. 4th and a trophy would be good from this position. 4th and no trophy would be poor still.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
I don’t think it would be. I’d still expect you to finish 4th despite the poor run under him. 4th and a trophy would be good from this position. 4th and no trophy would be poor still.
It's almost like two super rich oil teams emerged or something.
4th would be par.
Anything more would be a cracking result.
Bearing in mind the Fa cup hasn't even started for us yet and is a total lottery, and Europe would be a huge ask.
Yea. Maybe it's that or I am getting old. As a neutral the excitement from watching the PL has gone down since the emergence of City. Chelsea was at least something new and with Mourinho it was exciting off the pitch.
You gotta keep up, we all celebrate top 4 and the emirates cup as if it's the champions league. After a few good results we all talk like we're prime Brazil from the 70s. That's why we're an insufferable bunch.
Of course, my mistake.
Its funny because it’s true. And just because they can’t be found on a Manchester United! forum, doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
Absolutely.
I don't see Arsenal as rival anymore (sadly or not) so i find myself objective regarding them (well, at least i think that i am objective).
He is doing very good job there. His team on paper looked and still looks few levels bellow us, Pool, City and Chelsea. Even worse than Spurs i would say. So, for not reaching top 4 i can't say that he failed in that. He did won FA cup by beating City and Chelsea which is good achievement.
His transfers, again on paper, don't look powerful (lets be real here, he could not go and buy tier A players like top 4 clubs do) but most of them playing good under him this season. Ramsdale, Partey, White, Odegaard are proving as good buys (for Arsenal) and seems to me that he is good in promoting young players.
Now, i am not saying that he is or will be some new world class coach but he is doing much better than people think on CAF.
Maybe Utd fans should do the same, otherwise its likely to be a bit of a miserable existence for both sets of supporters over the next few years.
I agree with the Auba part but Lacazette is a very good player for them.
I've always said that the players Pep bought for City weren't exactly superstars. Maybe for the exception of Sterling (being English), Pep didn't really buy any world class players. What he looks for are players that are highly technical and it seems like Arteta has tried doing the same with his transfers.
I said this back at the start of November, and I’m a little more confident about their chances now than I was then. While I think it’s been advantageous that Spurs and Manchester United have had a troubled season, Arsenal have shown signs since the end of last season, and I think there summer business was pretty good.
Still a long way to go, Manchester United are a very talented side with some quality big names and could definitely put a run together. I’m far less impressed with the Spurs side, but they do have a few quality players and Conte is an excellent manager.
Arteta won silverware, in all fairness he surely deserves credit for that.
That's actually insane. Almost 6 years since they've had champions league football.
Trophy handed to him by Anthony Taylor
Seriously? You are comparing Ole's reign in United with Arteta's in Arsenal? That is some deluded stuff, mate.
out of interest why wouldn't you compare them?
So he's better than Ole because of a penalty kick?
Wrong choice of words. You can compare everybody, of course. But in terms who has done better job; there is no contest
Why?
who was that then?
from my perspective, both have been pretty crap overall with a few flashes of promising stuff at times
I think Ole and Arteta had very different challenges.
Ole came into a team that had a lot of talent, but had been through the Mourinho grinder. They had finished 2nd the season before, but he had to lift the side out of their funk, because of it being Manchester United and the squad having quality (albeit in need of additions), combined with him being on able to spend in his first window meant that he was under more pressure. Bruno was an inspired singing, and he did make incremental progress with finishing third and then second. While there were positive signs, I also think he never quite managed to get his side working holistically. I know it’s become a meme on here but often times it was individual quality that got the team results. I think things then slipped away this season and his position became untenable.
With Arteta, I felt that he came into a side that was in desperate need of an overhaul. I’ve long argued in this thread that people were judging the team on the name, and not the actual quality it possessed. Emery did excellently to get 5th, but the wheels came off towards the end of his first season, and then continued into his second season, with the club in free fall it was a tricky job to walk into. There was far less pressure than the United job though, people keep questioning why the board didn’t sack Arteta, and it was because they understood the squad was shambolic and that they had hired a rookie manager and were not expecting immediate results. We’re now into his second full season, and the transfers he has made are clearly done with a long term view. Every signing he made this summer were 23 and under, and his side is statistically the youngest in the league. He has struggled to get his side defensively sound without playing pragmatic football, but he’s turned a corner in this aspect, and they’re now really starting to function as a collective and have got a great balance, with young vibrant players. The football has really improved.
They’re challenging for fourth this season, and if achieved it will show excellent progress.
Ole came into a team that had a lot of talent, but had been through the Mourinho grinder. They had finished 2nd the season before, but he had to lift the side out of their funk, because of it being Manchester United and the squad having quality (albeit in need of additions), combined with him being on able to spend in his first window meant that he was under more pressure. Bruno was an inspired singing, and he did make incremental progress with finishing third and then second. While there were positive signs, I also think he never quite managed to get his side working holistically. I know it’s become a meme on here but often times it was individual quality that got the team results. I think things then slipped away this season and his position became untenable.
With Arteta, I felt that he came into a side that was in desperate need of an overhaul. I’ve long argued in this thread that people were judging the team on the name, and not the actual quality it possessed. Emery did excellently to get 5th, but the wheels came off towards the end of his first season, and then continued into his second season, with the club in free fall it was a tricky job to walk into. There was far less pressure than the United job though, people keep questioning why the board didn’t sack Arteta, and it was because they understood the squad was shambolic and that they had hired a rookie manager and were not expecting immediate results. We’re now into his second full season, and the transfers he has made are clearly done with a long term view. Every signing he made this summer were 23 and under, and his side is statistically the youngest in the league. He has struggled to get his side defensively sound without playing pragmatic football, but he’s turned a corner in this aspect, and they’re now really starting to function as a collective and have got a great balance, with young vibrant players. The football has really improved.
They’re challenging for fourth this season, and if achieved it will show excellent progress.
Um, you do understand that not all Arsenal fans have signed up on Redcafe, don't you?
If we count quality of teams which they had? Arteta did better job. Top 4 for United was bare minimum. For Arsenal, in the same period, trophy and EL spot was above expectations.
fair enough
I genuinely didn't know who you meant though
what were expectations for Arteta then if it wasn't a EL spot?
EL spot was bare minimum. With that and trophy he did more than that.
For Ole (team and money which he had) top 4 was minimum of minimum. Trophy and title challenge would have been good season.
EL spot “above expectations” for Arsenal? Jesus wept. One thing Arteta has evidently done a truly exceptional job at so far is in lowering expectations to ridiculous levels.
Qualifying for the EL is the bare minimum Arsenal should achieve, every single season. In fact, failing to qualify for the CL should always be considered a disappointment for a club with their revenue/spending.
El spot AND trophy. Not just el spot. El spot is bare minimum as Ole's top4 spot.
I agree that Arsenal must aim top 4 always. But not in terms of team which Arteta inherited
That’s a bit unfair. There are 4 teams with higher revenues and spending. Finishing top 6 would be about where you’d expect Arsenal to be with their wage bill. Not to mention it’s probably one of the youngest squads in the league.
The premier league table is the only true judge of a manager/teams quality. Nobody ever thought Wigan beating City to an FA Cup proved that Martinez was a top tier manager (which we’ve seen ever since)
Arsenal’s wage bill has them top five. They’ve also outspent most teams around them on new signings over the last couple of years.
In the three seasons before Arteta took over they finished either 5th or 6th. Having almost always nailed a top 4 slot under Wenger. Since he’s been in charge they’ve finished 8th. Twice in a row. And people are trying to argue he’s exceeded expectations? Mental.
100%.
Let’s not forget, it was Arteta who thought he could win the CL within 3 years of managing Arsenal, and is one of the reasons he signed Willian on a £250k a week deal:
https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...an-winning-champions-league-is-arsenal-target
The quotes in that article are
worthy.I do, yeah. But there are quite a few Gooners here (props to RedCafe for generally being welcoming to non-WUM opposition fans, btw) so you’d have thought that if Arsenal fans are mostly the way we’re being described in this thread… you would see some sign of that here.
If any fans were gonna be insufferable loudmouths prone to giddiness at the first sign of good form, I would have thought it would be those signed up to a rival forum.
Just seems like a bit of a straw man to me.
The club needed completely rebuilding, but just so people can know some facts, Arteta so far in his reign:
City
Liverpool
Chelsea - 145 points
United - 142 points
Arsenal - 129 points
Spurs - 124 points
Leicester - 111 points
Since Arteta joined the club, he's 5th in the league on total points. No point looking back at times before that, the league had a lot less money in it whilst Wenger and SAF were around, now the whole league is more competative. This is after having to rebuild the club including getting rid of A LOT of players who were deadwood, and introducing a new style of play after the Wenger era. He's done this whilst also winning some silverware.
So, just to ask you, where exactly do you think Arsenal should be? To me, comparative to spending (we are 4th in spend during Artetas time, behind United, Chelsea and City) and the squad he picked up, Arteta has done a completely fine job. People on here just seem to have a go at him for absolutely no reason, even when the facts are saying he's done the exact job he was meant to and more considering the cup wins. He had a couple rough patches along the way, but considering his experience that was always going to happen. Now after 2 years we actually have some identity and a squad who seem to play together and for each other. If we manage to get top 4 this season, then he's done a fantastic job, and a domestic cup too would be the icing on the cake but we'll see on both of those.
And also, just looking at spend, we spent a fair bit of money on players who we expect to do well in the future, not instant success. I'm not expecting us to suddenly become good because we spent money, it's a long term project. Anyone who says, oh Arsenal spent loads of money so should be doing better isn't really looking at the profile of player. There's some exceptions, aka Pepe mostly though.
Last edited:
Where exactly do I think Arsenal should be? Better than 8th place in the league, that’s for damn sure. Which is where they’ve finished under Arteta. Twice in a row.
You can spin it whichever way you want but he’s consistently steered Arsenal to a league position that is well below expectations for a club that size. That’s the simple fact that the Arteta fan club are bizarrely intent on ignoring. I remember at the end of last season there was all this bollox about their “points since Christmas” and how this meant they were finally mixing it with the big boys.
Sure enough, they have a shocking start to this season proving they’re once again miles off the pace (with Spurs and United firing managers who had a similar start) but all it takes is a few wins in a row for the revisionism and hubris to kick into gear again. Rinse and repeat.
Counting points from the time Arteta became manager has the potential to be misleading. It's perfectly possible that a club performs better that Arsenal for one single season season, which would cause Arsenal to miss their target. This could happen every year. It's already happened once.
What good would it do if Arteta had the club on '4th' over a period of 10 years while actually finishing 6th every season? None!
What good would it do if Arteta had the club on '4th' over a period of 10 years while actually finishing 6th every season? None!
Last edited:
What am I spinning? Why are you including half a season where Arteta wasn't even involved? What does that prove?
I've literally told you his exact points since joining compared to other sides, to which he is 5th. If you wanted to say he under performed last season, i'll give you that, but before he took over in his first season we were 11th..
So to confirm you're ignoring the fact that factually he has the 5th most amount of points since he started, yet you are happy to make a point of the fact that we lost 3 games at the start of the season with 9 players out against Brentford, City and Chelsea who were all full strength? How are we miles off the pace, when we are literally 4th.
Then you're also saying that United and Spurs firing managers and having a poor start to the season is fine, but when it comes to Arteta you're ignoring the fact that that happened in the first half of his first season too and are including that in his performance? Ok...