Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[Chairman Steve]

I think Arteta could dispel the old notion of “the sign of a good manager is winning trophies”, especially when think back on how good Pochettino was with Spurs and they never won anything under him, which he gets shat on for.

An 8th place finish last season to potentially 9th or 10th this season with Arsenal of all teams is a bad sign. Everyone knows you can ride your luck big time in the cups, but the league is the true indicator. It’s not even like they’re playing well now after a shit first half of the season either.

I‘m somewhat confused as to how he got a job of this magnitude. I could understand a lower half Premier League team doing it but Arsenal? No chance.

 

[Bebestation]

The problem for me is that Arteta doesn’t even seem to be building something for the future. He has been freezing out the likes of Saliba, Nelson and Martinelli. He also froze out Ozil, Soares, Guendozi etc

Maybe not all of the above players are world beaters, but his man management seems very suspect nonetheless.

Martinelli was a player that always looked good for them a season or two ago. I keep wondering if he is injured for Arsenal.

 

[GoonerBear]

He's making it harder for me to defend him again. In a way, I feel a bit for him, he's not been dealt a good hand with the squad, he's not had proper backing in terms of investment, & he's still probably got nowhere near the team he wants.

I don't even think we are playing too badly just now in the main. We haven't lost all control of games like we did under Emery, we are getting punished for individual errors, Everton game being a prime example of our season in a nutshell.

However, he doesn't help himself with some of his decision making. Him not taking Ceballos off before the red card was criminal, keeping Xhaka up against Chukweze who is their main threat, some of his lack of trust in certain players such as Martinelli is frustrating, the home form just now is very, very poor, & the lack of fans in stadiums is probably the only reason he's still in a job.

I want to see him given time, a proper pre season, a chance to see if he integrates the like of Saliba, to see who we target in the summer, to get more of his own players in, but he's eroding my trust & hope in him again, so it's a massive dilemma.

 

[WeePat]

This is something that I was thinking about earlier. Would the general football fans and the Arsenal fans in particular rate him as a good manager if he gets these two trophies?

Most teams, Spurs as an example, would love to be in this position.

I suppose some would look at it as Arsenal continuing to win trophies whilst the club is in the wilderness when it comes to the league. I don't rate Arteta at all, but he could somehow win his second trophy in his second season and have them playing CL football next season.

 

[Godfather]

I dread playing these in the final. Really hope Villareal can turn them over.

I don't know. I fear the Spaniards more.

 

[Sunny Jim]

i had a quick glance at some media outlets....they see Arsenal as favorites to go through...Jesus..

 

[Judas]

They'll probably still bungle their way through, but Arteta and Arsenal in general seem to be getting off so lightly in the media suits us though, they're going nowhere fast.

 

[FrankDrebin]

He'll win the EL. Convinced of it.

 

[horsechoker]

He'll win the EL. Convinced of it.

Keep him at Arse let him keep winning trophies while fighting relegation.

 

[romufc]

He's making it harder for me to defend him again. In a way, I feel a bit for him, he's not been dealt a good hand with the squad, he's not had proper backing in terms of investment, & he's still probably got nowhere near the team he wants.

I find this narrative quite boring from Arsenal fans actually. Last summer, no team got what they wanted, no manager got the proper backing from the owners.

Arteta got a CB, CDM, CM (loan), and got Auby to sign a new contract. He got Willian too, so to say he didn't get backed is not entirely true.

He had a worse squad last year and they have gone backwards this season.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

This is something that I was thinking about earlier. Would the general football fans and the Arsenal fans in particular rate him as a good manager if he gets these two trophies?

Most teams, Spurs as an example, would love to be in this position.

Trophies that aren't the big 2 will only keep fans happy for a while, especially if Arsenal keep being rubbish in the league. Where you finish in the league is a much better indicator of progress and improvement. Arteta's luck in the cups will eventually run out and when it does that's when the league becomes his only lifeline and if Arsenal remain poor in that then the fans will all turn on him.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I find this narrative quite boring from Arsenal fans actually. Last summer, no team got what they wanted, no manager got the proper backing from the owners.

Arteta got a CB, CDM, CM (loan), and got Auby to sign a new contract. He got Willian too, so to say he didn't get backed is not entirely true.

He had a worse squad last year and they have gone backwards this season.

I know he wasn't signed under Arteta but you could say he was backed with the signing of Pepe as well as he joined in August and Arteta became manager in December. That was £72m and Arteta is the one who actually benefits from the new player in his team.

 

[Stacks]

If they get through they will beat us in the final and Arteta silence the critics again for a few months so best Villareal win

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I checked their lineup. What was he thinking playing without a striker? Martinelli and Aubameyang were on the bench and he chose to play without striker despite of struggling to score goals all season. Did he watch PSG vs City and he thought he could copy Pep?

 

[romufc]

I know he wasn't signed under Arteta but you could say he was backed with the signing of Pepe as well as he joined in August and Arteta became manager in December. That was £72m and Arteta is the one who actually benefits from the new player in his team.

I mean that is a huge investment, even £30m on a CB that was then marginalised by Arteta. Arsenal fans keep this narrative that their board doesn't invest, I am not sure why?

Ozil was paid alot of money,
Willian, Partey, Auby and the like are paid alot of money.
They have signed Lacca, Auby, Pepe for over £50m each.

They haven't got CL in a number of years, which means cash flow is low.

Finally, even though United, City, Liverpool, Chelsea spend money they also sell players. Lukaku, Di Maria, Smalling and the like all.

Even last summer, we had to reduce our wage bill and sell players to be able to buy, Arsenal have sold Iwobi and Ox for any sort of money.

 

[duffer]

I checked their lineup. What was he thinking playing without a striker? Martinelli and Aubameyang were on the bench and he chose to play without striker despite of struggling to score goals all season. Did he watch PSG vs City and he thought he could copy Pep?

It's kinda popular at the moment. Pep did it against PSG and Chelsea more or less did it against Real Madrid.

 

[weetee]

I checked their lineup. What was he thinking playing without a striker? Martinelli and Aubameyang were on the bench and he chose to play without striker despite of struggling to score goals all season. Did he watch PSG vs City and he thought he could copy Pep?

Pep and Tuchel, they both play without strikers
Dumb move by Arteta imho.

 

[BlahRules]

I suppose some would look at it as Arsenal continuing to win trophies whilst the club is in the wilderness when it comes to the league. I don't rate Arteta at all, but he could somehow win his second trophy in his second season and have them playing CL football next season.

I find this narrative quite boring from Arsenal fans actually. Last summer, no team got what they wanted, no manager got the proper backing from the owners.

Arteta got a CB, CDM, CM (loan), and got Auby to sign a new contract. He got Willian too, so to say he didn't get backed is not entirely true.

He had a worse squad last year and they have gone backwards this season.

When Ole took charge of United it was said we had an awful team and needed major changes. Now it is said Ole is not getting more out of the team. The truth is Ole has done amazing well, and both full season it was said he would not get top four but got 3rd and now 2nd.

Arteta has not got the players playing to the level they should be. The players he bought have not improved the team nor do these new signings look the same as they did in the previous team.

The only thing that helps Arteta is the FA Cup but sooner or later he will be found out. I don't think he can motivate the players to play for him, something good and world class managers can.

 

[romufc]

When Ole took charge of United it was said we had an awful team and needed major changes. Now it is said Ole is not getting more out of the team. The truth is Ole has done amazing well, and both full season it was said he would not get top four but got 3rd and now 2nd.

Arteta has not got the players playing to the level they should be. The players he bought have not improved the team nor do these new signings look the same as they did in the previous team.

The only thing that helps Arteta is the FA Cup but sooner or later he will be found out. I don't think he can motivate the players to play for him, something good and world class managers can.

I agree on Ole. However many times Ole out trends on twitter, it really baffles me. Our fans keep downplaying his achievements.

last season it was, Leicester and Chelsea injuries / drop of form is why we got CL, not the fact that we clawed a 12 point gap to get 3rd.

This season the narrative is, oh its covid, everyone is playing crap. But when you say City, everyone will say, wow what a team, they playing exciting stuff this that the other, yet we are 10 points behind them which is a smaller gap than with Liverpool.

This team has played alot of footbal, we got to the semis of every cup last season, had 3 weeks summer break, poor start and played almost 2 times a week for the last 8 months.

With Arteta, he won the FA cup playing a very defensive method, relying on a few counter attacks, the same tactic that most United fans complain about when we play it.

It is clear Arteta struggles to motivate his players.

 

[GoonerBear]

I find this narrative quite boring from Arsenal fans actually. Last summer, no team got what they wanted, no manager got the proper backing from the owners.

Arteta got a CB, CDM, CM (loan), and got Auby to sign a new contract. He got Willian too, so to say he didn't get backed is not entirely true.

He had a worse squad last year and they have gone backwards this season.

Im not saying he didn't get any backing, but given the magnitude of the clear out that was needed, we didnt get anywhere near enough, as our squad depth is really poor.

However, I get that also he hasn't used what he does have at his disposal the best way. That's why this summer will be very interesting, as there's young assets there such as Saliba, Willock, Maitland-Niles that either he can integrate back in the team or that have a market to raise transfer funds, so this summer will really be make or break for him.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

It's kinda popular at the moment. Pep did it against PSG and Chelsea more or less did it against Real Madrid.

They did it because they have the right midfielders or attacking mid to play that way and the midfielders produce goals. Arteta doesn't have one. You can't try force a system that doesn't suit the players or the current squad.

 

[GoonerBear]

They did it because they have the right midfielders or attacking mid to play that way and the midfielders produce goals. Arteta doesn't have one. You can't try force a system that doesn't suit the players or the current squad.

Auba hasn't played since recovering from Malaria, so maybe he didn't want to risk him from the start.

Martinelli I've no idea what he thinks about him.

 

[romufc]

Im not saying he didn't get any backing, but given the magnitude of the clear out that was needed, we didnt get anywhere near enough, as our squad depth is really poor.

However, I get that also he hasn't used what he does have at his disposal the best way. That's why this summer will be very interesting, as there's young assets there such as Saliba, Willock, Maitland-Niles that either he can integrate back in the team or that have a market to raise transfer funds, so this summer will really be make or break for him.

This is the same scenario Ole had at United. Alot of players that were average that needed to get shifted. That's exactly what he concentrated on, getting rid of players so he can build his own squad.

This cannot happen in one transfer window. I think if Arsenal plan it out, they have got rid of alot of players, just 3/4 more to go. The likes of Kolasinac, Gendouzhi, who Arteta does not rate.

Then he can start building his team however; he has to get his signings right. Personally, I do not see Maitland Niles, Willock making the cut for Arsenal, they should cash in and buy players who are specialists in the roles rather than having a host of players whom are jack of all trades.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Auba hasn't played since recovering from Malaria, so maybe he didn't want to risk him from the start.

Martinelli I've no idea what he thinks about him.

Has to be Martinelli. If Martinelli doesn't get a chance when Auba and Laca are not available, when is he ever going to have a chance?

LVG gave Rashford a chance to made his debut when both Martial & Rooney injured. This type of period is best when you give the young players chances and your trust to gain more confidence. Arteta is out of his depth in my opinion but somehow the luck is still on his side saved by the penalty goal to earnt him an away goal.

 

[GoonerBear]

This is the same scenario Ole had at United. Alot of players that were average that needed to get shifted. That's exactly what he concentrated on, getting rid of players so he can build his own squad.

This cannot happen in one transfer window. I think if Arsenal plan it out, they have got rid of alot of players, just 3/4 more to go. The likes of Kolasinac, Gendouzhi, who Arteta does not rate.

Then he can start building his team however; he has to get his signings right. Personally, I do not see Maitland Niles, Willock making the cut for Arsenal, they should cash in and buy players who are specialists in the roles rather than having a host of players whom are jack of all trades.

See, I've said all along I can see a big picture, & that it might mean 1 step back to take 2 forward for the good of the long term. So if it means inconsistent results while bedding in the likes of Saliba, Gabriel, Smith-Rowe, Saka & Martinelli & adding in more of his own players, I was always willing to accept it. My main worry has been the management of some of these players, in particular Saliba & Martinelli. If he's true to his word & see's them as the future & they will be involved more, I'll give him more grace. If it's just lip service and he continues to mis-manage them & results continue as they are he'll be gone next season, no doubt.

Has to be Martinelli. If Martinelli doesn't get a chance when Auba and Laca are not available, when is he ever going to have a chance?

LVG gave Rashford a chance to made his debut when both Martial & Rooney injured. This type of period is best when you give the young players chances and your trust to gain more confidence. Arteta is out of his depth in my opinion but somehow the luck is still on his side saved by the penalty goal to earnt him an away goal.

I think the problem with Martinelli is that he & the manager see him as a left winger currently, & that's the position he's competing for, whereas a lot of the support think he should be tried through the middle more. It's not like he's not played youngsters, Saka & Smith-Rowe are now regulars, Nketiah has had a good few games up top including at the weekend there. I just don't think Arteta sees Martinelli as a central forward just now.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

See, I've said all along I can see a big picture, & that it might mean 1 step back to take 2 forward for the good of the long term. So if it means inconsistent results while bedding in the likes of Saliba, Gabriel, Smith-Rowe, Saka & Martinelli & adding in more of his own players, I was always willing to accept it. My main worry has been the management of some of these players, in particular Saliba & Martinelli. If he's true to his word & see's them as the future & they will be involved more, I'll give him more grace. If it's just lip service and he continues to mis-manage them & results continue as they are he'll be gone next season, no doubt.



I think the problem with Martinelli is that he & the manager see him as a left winger currently, & that's the position he's competing for, whereas a lot of the support think he should be tried through the middle more. It's not like he's not played youngsters, Saka & Smith-Rowe are now regulars, Nketiah has had a good few games up top including at the weekend there. I just don't think Arteta sees Martinelli as a central forward just now.

If his preference centre forwards are unfit then the manager has to play the one who is versatile to play in there. Martinelli is one of the versatile one that capable to play in the role. It's better than forcing another young player who never play in false 9 to be a false 9 in the manager's biggest game of the season. It makes no sense to me. He thinks he is Pep and he thinks ESR (based on the lineup) is Benardo Silva or KDB or Sterling.

 

[Shane88]

i had a quick glance at some media outlets....they see Arsenal as favorites to go through...Jesus..

I'd agree. The away goal is huge.

Not big favourites, 55-45 advantage in my eyes, but still see them going through.

 

[adexkola]

If his preference centre forwards are unfit then the manager has to play the one who is versatile to play in there. Martinelli is one of the versatile one that capable to play in the role. It's better than forcing another young player who never play in false 9 to be a false 9 in the manager's biggest game of the season. It makes no sense to me. He thinks he is Pep and he thinks ESR (based on the lineup) is Benardo Silva or KDB or Sterling.

Yeah, a manager would ignore everything he knows about his players and what he's seen in training, because he is trying to be a copycat.

 

[sglowrider]

If I was Martinelli, I would put in a transfer request this summer. It's obvious that Arteta doesn't have the same level of confidence in him as the other two kids. Wasting his development years away sitting on the bench.

 

[rotherham_red]

I suppose some would look at it as Arsenal continuing to win trophies whilst the club is in the wilderness when it comes to the league. I don't rate Arteta at all, but he could somehow win his second trophy in his second season and have them playing CL football next season.

Take it from a Utd fan who witnessed us win three trophies in two successive seasons, they are just a mirage if the underlying form isn't showing signs of improvement. And in Arteta's case, I'm just not seeing it.

 

[rotherham_red]

I'd agree. The away goal is huge.

Not big favourites, 55-45 advantage in my eyes, but still see them going through.

That is dependent upon them keeping a clean sheet. Do you see that in them? I don't. And if they don't keep a clean sheet, then they'll have to score at least three times to assure themselves of a place in the final. Again, I don't see that happening.

 

[GoonerBear]

If his preference centre forwards are unfit then the manager has to play the one who is versatile to play in there. Martinelli is one of the versatile one that capable to play in the role. It's better than forcing another young player who never play in false 9 to be a false 9 in the manager's biggest game of the season. It makes no sense to me. He thinks he is Pep and he thinks ESR (based on the lineup) is Benardo Silva or KDB or Sterling.

I agree Martinelli seemed the most obvious choice, he defo got that call wrong.

I'd agree. The away goal is huge.

Not big favourites, 55-45 advantage in my eyes, but still see them going through.

Id normally see us favourites with a 2-1 away score, but not the way we've played at home this season. For me, that's the big worry & what must be improved next season. We've actually more away points than home with a game less played. Hopefully supporters coming back will help normalise things, but on the other hand, it will massively increase pressure on the manager.

If I was Martinelli, I would put in a transfer request this summer. It's obvious that Arteta doesn't have the same level of confidence in him as the other two kids. Wasting his development years away sitting on the bench.

A bit early to say. Remember, he was out with a long term knee injury for a lot of the last calender year. Let's see how he's used next season.

 

[adexkola]

That is dependent upon them keeping a clean sheet. Do you see that in them? I don't. And if they don't keep a clean sheet, then they'll have to score at least three times to assure themselves of a place in the final. Again, I don't see that happening.

Did you see them winning 4-0 away to Prague?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Im not saying he didn't get any backing, but given the magnitude of the clear out that was needed, we didnt get anywhere near enough, as our squad depth is really poor.

However, I get that also he hasn't used what he does have at his disposal the best way. That's why this summer will be very interesting, as there's young assets there such as Saliba, Willock, Maitland-Niles that either he can integrate back in the team or that have a market to raise transfer funds, so this summer will really be make or break for him.

He shouldn't even be given a transfer window, he has proved that he can't get the most out of his players so why should he be allowed to sign more? He clearly isn't good enough as teams above Arsenal have worse squads and are doing better.

 

[GoonerBear]

He shouldn't even be given a transfer window, he has proved that he can't get the most out of his players so why should he be allowed to sign more? He clearly isn't good enough as teams above Arsenal have worse squads and are doing better.

I can see that argument, and to be honest, I'd probably struggle to put up a compelling defence. There's a lot that want him out already. I'm probably more patient than most, & willing to give him another window & the chance to have a proper pre season that he's not had yet.

It looks like there will be no European football next season. It might be just what the team needs, a chance to have a smaller tighter squad with more time in the training pitch.

 

[rotherham_red]

Did you see them winning 4-0 away to Prague?

Yep, I did. Well done to them for it, but then I remember that this this was only the second time since January that they scored more than once and kept clean sheet since January.

The other two times being the mighty titans of West Brom and Sheffield Utd...

Villareal are a better side than all of those teams mentioned. They also have at the helm, a Europa League specialist in Emery. I honestly can't seem them keeping them out, and I also can't see them scoring enough if they do fail to keep them out.

I would be happy to be proven wrong, as I want them in the final and get some revenge for their recent results against us, as well as not having to go against Emery in what is essentially Emery's Cup, but I just can't see it.

 

[crossy1686]

I can see that argument, and to be honest, I'd probably struggle to put up a compelling defence. There's a lot that want him out already. I'm probably more patient than most, & willing to give him another window & the chance to have a proper pre season that he's not had yet.

It looks like there will be no European football next season. It might be just what the team needs, a chance to have a smaller tighter squad with more time in the training pitch.

Realistically, if Arsenal were to sack Arteta then what would the plan be? It’s taken United 8 years to get anywhere near coherent again, and still not challenging for a title. We’re only seeing benefits now because we’re backing a manager and giving him time because he’s not a toxic mess or got no idea how to manage players at a club like United.

Arsenal are a good 5 years away from the top 4. Sacking the manager and bringing in someone else isn’t going to speed that up, if anything it will prolong the climb.

 

[rotherham_red]

I can see that argument, and to be honest, I'd probably struggle to put up a compelling defence. There's a lot that want him out already. I'm probably more patient than most, & willing to give him another window & the chance to have a proper pre season that he's not had yet.

It looks like there will be no European football next season. It might be just what the team needs, a chance to have a smaller tighter squad with more time in the training pitch.

A sincere question for you mate, and I don't intend any offence by it because you seem to be very good natured and patient (much like I was with Ole during the difficult times last season when a lot of this board wanted him out for months) but did you have this same patience for Emery? Personally, I do think Emery had gotten more out of what was a worse squad than the one Arteta has and he was nowhere near backed as much as Arteta was (from memory).

I won't go into my reasons why I think Arteta has gotten a much easier ride than Ole had done as it's been done to death, but I do think the comparisons between the two ring hollow. Where Ole has made do with the squad he inherited (a squad which had finished one place below Arsenal just a few months before Emery was sacked and Arteta was brought in) and added albeit some expensive pieces, he has only really added four first team players in the more than two years he's been in charge. And yet, he still managed to get some really noticeable improvement out of the players that were already here (and in the process move out a metric feck tonne who didn't fit). With Arteta, he's brought in plenty of players (much moreso than Ole has done) but the improvement seems to be negligible at best.

And yet, we still have fawning pieces on him like Gunnerblogs' comparison piece on the Athletic between him and Emery yesterday, or we get sycophants like Miguel Delaney still saying he's a better manager than Ole. I just don't get it. If Ole is the joke, then what is Arteta? If the job Ole has done is so basic, why couldn't Arteta replicate it? Why isn't Odegaard for example, doing what Bruno did last year? Because apparently, Ole has had limited progress with Utd, but Arteta is at the start of a process? It's genuinely head scratching stuff to me...

 

[rotherham_red]

Yet another example of the media fawning over him. It is honestly downright bizarre, and the argument it's making is one any manager not named Pep in the top 6 or 7 teams in the league could make.

When Ole was persevering with Pereira and Lingard last season, did we have this level of understanding from the media and fans? Did we feck.

 

[adexkola]

A sincere question for you mate, and I don't intend any offence by it because you seem to be very good natured and patient (much like I was with Ole during the difficult times last season when a lot of this board wanted him out for months) but did you have this same patience for Emery? Personally, I do think Emery had gotten more out of what was a worse squad than the one Arteta has and he was nowhere near backed as much as Arteta was (from memory).

I won't go into my reasons why I think Arteta has gotten a much easier ride than Ole had done as it's been done to death, but I do think the comparisons between the two ring hollow. Where Ole has made do with the squad he inherited (a squad which had finished one place below Arsenal just a few months before Emery was sacked and Arteta was brought in) and added albeit some expensive pieces, he has only really added four first team players in the more than two years he's been in charge. And yet, he still managed to get some really noticeable improvement out of the players that were already here (and in the process move out a metric feck tonne who didn't fit). With Arteta, he's brought in plenty of players (much moreso than Ole has done) but the improvement seems to be negligible at best.

And yet, we still have fawning pieces on him like Gunnerblogs' comparison piece on the Athletic between him and Emery yesterday, or we get sycophants like Miguel Delaney still saying he's a better manager than Ole. I just don't get it. If Ole is the joke, then what is Arteta? If the job Ole has done is so basic, why couldn't Arteta replicate it? Why isn't Odegaard for example, doing what Bruno did last year? Because apparently, Ole has had limited progress with Utd, but Arteta is at the start of a process? It's genuinely head scratching stuff to me...

I think you need to let go of the media's idiotic treatment of Ole and judge both managers fairly on their own merits. The media are biased idiots, we don't need to join them in the pit.

Ole: doing very good job given his resources. Shown consistency over 2 seasons in the league, may break his trophy draught this season . Requires more support from the board to see whether he's capable of pushing though the crack.

Arteta: mediocre so far. Hamstrung by poor squad quality, but will ultimately be judged by league and cup results. If sacked right now he couldn't complain but that sets Arsenal back to square 1. If not sacked he has this summer and the first half of next season to make his case otherwise it's curtains. Either way, when you have a string of managers performing poorly (going back to Wenger), maybe it's time to point fingers at the board?