It's truly bizarre. Knives have been out for Ole for a long time now and despite massive improvement in lots of things it's as if media can't wait for anything bad involving us. Arsenal on the other hand is playing crap and results in he the league are horrible and they're to fine every excuse under the sun for him just cause he dresses and act likes little Pep.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
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Don't quite get the thinking. So you are saying that the team are either full of over the hill players, shite players & a few youngsters that might develop. So if the team is so shit, what should the manager be able to do?
nothing but he's shit as well. The team is just another log on the shitpile. I’m just bored of the media swooning over him and talking like things are about to come good. His record is worse than emery. You have two ways out: spend about 500m quid or develop those youngters but they are regressing while the clown sent the ones that look any good out on loan to albion and newcastle.
shouldnt be so salty its not our fault you’ve become a bottom half team is it
Im not salty mate, my previous posts will tell you that, I just didn't understand your thinking. You seem salty because he's not getting the criticism you think he deserves.
I wouldn't say the youngsters are regressing, I also don't think you have to spend £500M to compete as the likes of West Ham & Leicester have shown.
when your starting point is the squad you have at the moment you probably do
Your squad needs improvement but they are not that bad to be in 10th position and to be playing such a crap brand of football. Anyways I do see why you keep on defending him but a neutral I just don't anything special with the way you guys play or setup.
I know he may still win a trophy again this year but football is still very dire. And the fact that he has struggled this much in the league is not a good showing. Ultimately league is the bread and butter and Arteta has failed in that.
Holding is average at best to be a starting CB, Partey has been garbage so I don't know what you have seen to say he has been as good as his billing. Having a load of promising youngsters means nothing, because at any club it is likely that more than half of the promising youngsters won't reach their potential. I sure as hell wouldn't be confident in Arteta being able to help youngsters reach their potential. He hasn't proved he could do this and hasn't proved himself at Arsenal so far.
Im not defending him blindly, I do agree that there's massive room for improvement, & if we don't see that next season he'll be out of a job.
I think we've seen glimpses of how he wants to play, away to Leicester, Slavia, West Brom, 2nd half vs West Ham main examples, but agree its way too inconsistent, & we really have had a problem at home.
Ive brought this up before. People are judging Arsenal by the name, not the actual quality of their players. How many Arsenal players would get in at United? Saka on the right probably, maybe Aubameyang or Lacazette up top. Ole has clearly done a better job but he has been their longer and inherited a better team (not to detract from his team building and the good work he’s done in shifting players and buying players). It’s easily the worst Arsenal squad I’ve ever known and Arteta hasn’t really been given much room to manoeuvre in the transfer market. Partey is one signing, and it’s not been a good first season but he’s had injury troubles and we can look to the likes of Fred to see that first seasons can be tricky and not always representative of the player. For marquee signings that’s been about it.
Not that Arteta shouldn’t be criticised, bar a short spell earlier this year the football has often been pretty dire and he desperately needs to improve on that. There are managers with worse squads who are playing a more distinct, easy on the eye football than Arteta is managing. Graham Potter is still relatively inexperienced at the highest level but I’d rather watch his Brighton most weeks over Arsenal.
If hypothetically he wins the Europa that’ll be two trophies in a season and a half. I don’t think cups are a very good sign of progress but it’s still silverware, even if it’s less flying and more falling in style.
Me: "Mum can we have Pep Guardiola?"
Mum: "we have Pep Guardiola at home"
Pep Guardiola at home:
Just wanna say - Pep Guardiola attempted to help Arteta just now by playing Gabriel Jesus and Sergio Aguero.
So this means that Arteta will play two strikers on Thursday.
So this means that Arteta will play two strikers on Thursday.
What an argument
. Sam Allardyce wanted to play like Real Madrid, but he didn’t have the players either.The team Ole had when he first came in to the job finished 6th and one place behind Arsenal. Ole then took a sledgehammer to that team and sold plenty from it. He then added 8 players over the next 2 summers to that squad (not going to include Amad and Pellistri as they have barely/not played, but will include Ighalo) and has us higher in the table. Arsenal, lest we forget, have bought in more players during that time (13 by my count) all of whom were bought for the first team. They already had a £250m attack. They then added a £50m Partey, and a £27m Gabriel to that team. Arteta had had plenty of opportunities to bring in players, it's his fault that he spent poorly. After all, it was his grand plan of Champions League dominance in three years that persuaded Willian to sign
Arteta came in at a similar time and in similar circumstances to what Ole came in to, just a year removed. Ole has been widely derided as a joke among the media and opposition, and Arteta has been seen as the big talent on the rise. If we're going to follow Ole's trajectory (and Ole being the poor manager that he's been made out to be) then it should not be an issue for Arteta to replicate what Ole did, considering his reputation. At this time last year, we went supernova and Bruno played a major role. If Arteta is the manager people say he is, why isn't Odegaard, for example, doing something similar? Where Ole brought through the kids, Arteta had to almost be forced into playing them outside of the EL. Instead, he was trying to force the likes of Willian in to the team, and it was only when injuries and suspensions forced him in to playing them against Chelsea in December that their results started to turn. He's also sidelined players like Martinelli and Saliba, who could and should have done a job for him and he was the genius who thought it would be worthwhile loaning in Soares and Mari in January 2020, not play them for 6 months and then give them each a 4 year contract. He also decided that Luiz was worth persisting with despite him letting the team down time and time again.
Like I said before, the least I expect from any manager at any level is to at least be resourceful with what he has. I've seen absolutely nothing of the sort from him and unlike what the media's gaslighting tries to tell us, I'm not seeing anything resembling a plan from Arteta either.
The team Ole had when he first came in to the job finished 6th and one place behind Arsenal. Ole then took a sledgehammer to that team and sold plenty from it. He then added 8 players over the next 2 summers to that squad (not going to include Amad and Pellistri as they have barely/not played, but will include Ighalo) and has us higher in the table. Arsenal, lest we forget, have bought in more players during that time (13 by my count) all of whom were bought for the first team. They already had a £250m attack. They then added a £50m Partey, and a £27m Gabriel to that team. Arteta had had plenty of opportunities to bring in players, it's his fault that he spent poorly. After all, it was his grand plan of Champions League dominance in three years that persuaded Willian to sign
I'm not sure what you're arguing about relating to Ole, I said he's clearly done a much better job, there's no argument from me on that. Regarding the numbers you've posted here, if we compare the financial opportunities of both teams there is a large gap. Under Ole Manchester United have spent about 260m*, Arteta has spent 73m*. That's a massive difference and it's hindered the calibre and options of the players that Arteta can go for. The 6th place position is a little misleading, Ole took over in December of that season, where Mourinho had his meltdown. Solskjaer did a brilliant job that season and he deserves a lot of credit for the job he did reinvigorating the squad and dusting off the damage Jose had done. The team wasn't an innately bad team though, the prior season they had finished 2nd, 18 points ahead of Arsenal. Willian hasn't worked out, but he was a free and showed glimpses of form towards the end of his time with Chelsea.
None of this is to say that Arteta has done as well as Solskjaer, he's clearly struggled a lot more and has been unable to shift the tide the way Ole has managed to. Neither is the spending argument an indictment of Ole, he has spent very well and has much more hits than misses, the success of his transfers is a massive reason as to why he has done a better job than his successors. But he has had funds to mould the squad in a way that Arteta hasn't, and when assessing Arteta that should be taken into account. 260m is a much more significant amount than 73m, and while Ole should be lauded for spending the money wisely, it should be noted that Arteta has had to rely on relatively little in the way of transfer funds,
*I've took the numbers from transfermarket. If someone has a more accurate source feel free to tally it up for me.
When Arteta came in, Arsenal were 10th. In their last 9 league games, they had lost 4, drawn 4, and won 1. It was a pretty terrible situation and the club was in freefall. Yes, Ole came in under difficult circumstances too and had much more of an immediate impact. What Ole did with his squad isn't particularly relevant when I'm assessing Arteta though.
A large part of this paragraph is that you are pissed the media was antagonistic to Ole, and it was pretty lenient to Arteta. And I think that's an understandable reaction, the media has been at times very disrespectful to Ole and it took a lot longer than it should for many of them to start giving him the credit he deserved, and the acknowledgement that he was doing a good job and heading in the right direction. Some of the comments from pundits or media personnel were not only overly antagonistic, they also highlighted a lack of understanding when it came to the coaching side of football. I've argued for him, that it takes time to turn things round and that we have to acknowledge the restraints managers are under. The Cardiff stint worked against him, but that was a cursed role that many managers would have struggled with (though his work in the championship was poor, the squad had basically switched off). You mentioned United going supernova with the addition of Fernandes, and that is very true. Sometimes the club isn't as far away as initially envisioned. Ole noted what the team was lacking, and Fernandes was a brilliant buy that took the team up a level.
I disagree about the lack of a plan, people can argue as to whether it's been implemented well enough, but from watching Arsenal it's pretty straightforward as to what he is attempting. The comparisons with Pep are way off, he's clearly a much more pragmatic manager and is far more willing to cede possession and implement a deep defensive line in an attempt to stifle the opposition. He's had a few good wins against good opposition and his overall record against the "top sides" is pretty decent. Consistency is a massive issue though and while there was a good spell at the turn of the year, the football has reverted a bit and it's not a great watch. He's also very committed to playing out of the back, as most teams are these days. It's not been super smooth but it's a clear a part of his ideology that he wants his team to be comfortable in doing so.
Do I think he's gone a good job? Not really. I think it was a tough job to come into, he's moved on a fair bit of deadweight now, but the football is still very inconsistent and he needs to start getting a tune out of some of his big players. The FA cup win has bought him time though, and if he wins the Europa (possible but definitely not the favourite) the CL money will help and it'll further boost his credit.
Do I think he should have another season? Yes.
Why am I framing the end of this post by asking myself questions? I don't know, same as I don't know why I've just written a long post on a pretty insignificant issue.
Good post, agree with nearly everything @Cascarino
In the 54 League games Arteta has managed his record is as follows:
Honestly, are the expectations at Arsenal seriously this low? It's abysmal and he should be doing much, much better. I'm actually staggered that Arsenal fans want him to continue for another season, it's baffling. In 54 games you've got a goal difference of 18 for gods sake.and he's already lost 1 more game at Arsenal than Ole despite managing 37 games less!
| Games | W | D | L | GF | GA | GD | Win % | Loss % | Points Per Game |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 54 | 22 | 14 | 18 | 76 | 58 | 18 | 40.74% | 33.33% | 1.48 |
Honestly, are the expectations at Arsenal seriously this low? It's abysmal and he should be doing much, much better. I'm actually staggered that Arsenal fans want him to continue for another season, it's baffling. In 54 games you've got a goal difference of 18 for gods sake.and he's already lost 1 more game at Arsenal than Ole despite managing 37 games less!
Says more about the clubs more than anything about where's the criticism.
Also if he keeps Arsenal down in mid table for a few years without a bad word said then that's a job well done in my book. Do we really want the knives out so they get a better one in? Pep blueprints is a great carrot on a stick.
Also if he keeps Arsenal down in mid table for a few years without a bad word said then that's a job well done in my book. Do we really want the knives out so they get a better one in? Pep blueprints is a great carrot on a stick.
My biggest criticism of Arteta is that they are completely dependent on Smith-rowe and Saka, 20 y/o and 19 y/o. When you have Auba, lacazette and Pepe. Whatever you may think of them, them 3 are grossly underachieving and that's a huge indictment of Arteta as manager. And no credit to Arteta for Smith-Rowe. If I'm not mistaken he doesn't always play Smith-Rowe.
You're spot on.
Where has this idea he's trying to play exactly like Pep that this particular newspaper is stating come from? Has he actually said anything to this effect, or is that lazy assumption?
It really doesn't take much to be a journalist, does it? Manager worked under Pep = manager wants to replicate everything Pep does and the players are incapable.
Maybe, just maybe, he's not trying to be Pep but he has simply not found a formula or a quality of player that's enabling them to compete. Thinking that he is at the whiteboard explaining Pep's philosophy to this set of players and that it is not working pretty much relies on an assumption that Arteta is simply a feeble minded dullard that wouldn't realise the state of the playing squad he has. That seems incredibly unlikely, against us for example they played with a degree of pragmatism.
It really doesn't take much to be a journalist, does it? Manager worked under Pep = manager wants to replicate everything Pep does and the players are incapable.
Maybe, just maybe, he's not trying to be Pep but he has simply not found a formula or a quality of player that's enabling them to compete. Thinking that he is at the whiteboard explaining Pep's philosophy to this set of players and that it is not working pretty much relies on an assumption that Arteta is simply a feeble minded dullard that wouldn't realise the state of the playing squad he has. That seems incredibly unlikely, against us for example they played with a degree of pragmatism.
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The expectations aren't that low. If he doesn't improve for next season he'll be out a job. A lot want him out already. I just think that there was a massive job that was needing done, a lot of players that need punted, & he hasn't had the resources as of yet to get them totally replaced.
People talk about 3 or 5 year plans but no-one ever wants to give the manager any amount of time. My opinion is that if you are going to have the balls to hire a rookie manager, a manager with no experience whatsoever, there's a general understanding that this is a long term thing, & you might as well give the manager 2 to 3 years to see if it can work.
Elite level manager strikes again...
At least they have an excellent number two that Leno kept out of the team for ages. Oh wait…
I keep saying it but I'll say it again. There's no point in having 'elite manager' tactical skills if everybody thinks you're a twat. He'd get more out of his players if he was more personable and less unhinged.
If the players are asking to leave they'll sack Arteta at the end of the season. They won't invest heavily when it's easier to sack the manager everyone hates.
Get a £10 on it now.
Get a £10 on it now.
Ok fine, if you don't think it's valid to compare the resources of Arsenal and Utd (even though they've almost doubled the amount of first team signings we've made, and I think actually outspent us last summer). How about West Ham and Everton (I won't include Leicester as I feel they've more than proven themselves to have at the very least been on par with Spurs and Arsenal)? There's no way you can legitimately argue that there is an area of mitigation for Arsenal finishing below those teams.
The team which finished 2nd under Jose is not the same team which Ole has. Of that team the only players who were regulars within it and are still key players were DDG and Pogba (for half the season). The rest were players who were either squad players or players Jose didn't want. And the players Jose actually used extensively that season have almost all either been sold or sidelined. It's actually a team who has been built up from squad players under Jose, to first teamers under Ole and there were plenty on here at the time (myself included) who thought Ole had taken a massive risk when he went into last season with no replacement for Herrera and no replacement for Lukaku and Sanchez. That he persevered (and obviously aided by Bruno) is a testament to him and the team as a whole.
The rest of your post I'll concede, I don't necessarily agree with all of it but it's well argued.
Is he a weirdo without human skill?
Fragile and weak minded players who can't handle Art's philosophy.
They probably like watching Love Island while Arteta reads Nietzsche and eats muesli.
They probably like watching Love Island while Arteta reads Nietzsche and eats muesli.
Like I said numerous times in this thread, the least I expect from any manager at the top level is to at least deploy the resources he has at his disposal to a competent, let alone good, degree.
And Arteta just simply doesn't do that to any acceptable degree at all. He's not given a chance to Saliba, barely played Martinelli who's been fit for the last 6 months, had to be forced into playing Smith Rowe and the likes because he was adamant that Willian and the likes were better, despite the performances and results with the kids literally staring him in the face to the contrary for 3 months. If Arsenal's Brazilian contingent hadn't been idiots and had that Covid breach, Arsenal fans would be likely dreading where they'd be right now.
The media love-in will be vomit-inducing if they beat us in the final.
Don't quite get it. You are using a snippet from a blogging site to have a go at the manager when we don't know if it's true or we don't know why he wants to leave even if he does?
Leno leaving would be excellent news for Arsenal, not sure why its being framed as a loss. He is awful.
Well, assuming they got enough money for him to buy a decent replacement. End of the day he's not brilliant but he's still their no.1 goalkeeper and they fecked off a better keeper last year so now don't really have a decent back up. Ryan is relegation level, although admittedly I think he's been better for Arsenal than he was at Brighton.
Did everyone forget to tell them that Pep without 1bn euros every transfer window is just another LVG? So practically they got a spanish Louis.
It's not when your backup goalkeeper is a Swedish lad who probably shouldn't be playing at a pro level
Arteta signed off on the sale of arguably the best keeper in the league this season last summer. The player he preferred over Martinez has had a poor season and is know rumoured to force his way out this summer. That’s a proper balls up by your manager.
Considering how often the very few gooners left that rate Arteta claim he’s hamstrung by a poor squad this sort of squad self-sabotage is clearly worth discussion.
I dont think Leno has had a poor season by any stretch. He's had a couple of howlers recently but Leno has a couple of them every season, his performance in between has kept us in a lot of games. He's a good goalkeeper, not great by any means, but I'm not sure having Martinez in goals wouldn't have made a big difference. We've only conceded 2 more goals than you guys for instance, it was our creativity pre Xmas that was the main issue & has defined our season.
Where did I say that having Martinez in goal would have changed your season? I’m just saying the goalkeeper situation at Arsenal is good example of poor squad management.
I’m not surprised Arsenal haven’t conceded many goals. I don’t think there’s been a more grimly defensive and boring to watch team in the league this season (or in many previous seasons).
It was a dilemma that was forced by the player. If Sergio Romero had played the last couple of months at the end of last season, done well, but came in demanding he was first choice or he wants to be sold, do you think Ole would have made him first choice for this season?