Name me one referee who would be in «total» control in this situation? 10 angry Italians losing the CL quarter final in the 93rd minute!? Not even Collina, not even the Rock!
Michael Oliver
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Name me one referee who would be in «total» control in this situation? 10 angry Italians losing the CL quarter final in the 93rd minute!? Not even Collina, not even the Rock!
The biggest villain here is Buffon. He’s a complete idiot for what he’s done - they weren’t out of this game. Save the penalty and you’re still in the game.
A penalty is what... 70% success of scoring? Add the added adrenaline for Ronaldo and deduct some points. I guess everyone would rather shoot at Szcenzny instead of Buffon....
A penalty is what... 70% success of scoring? Add the added adrenaline for Ronaldo and deduct some points. I guess everyone would rather shoot at Szcenzny instead of Buffon....
It's impossible in that situation. You're describing what referees usually do when teams are brawling with each other. Him being at the centre of it makes that impossible.
I think given what Buffon can be seen to do, and given that he is club captain, a red card is a perfectly legitimate response there. Whether Costa is lucky to get away with hitting him or not I'm not sure from watching that video four times, and I fail to see how anything other than an excruciating VAR referral would have cleared that up.
But if we accept that captains have informal responsibilities then I think it's perfectly reasonable to send Buffon off as ringleader of that.
And at any rate, I have no sympathy with him. Emotional or not I thought those scenes after the penalty decision were an absolute disgrace and, if anything, they were lucky just to get away with the one red card.
He ref'ed well last night I thought. He might be a unlikable cnut in general, but under pressure yesterday he made the right calls.
Buffon, being the captain and 40 years old, should be trying to calm his players down and reminding them it's not over until the pen goes in and the ref blows the final whistle. Instead of hounding the ref and egging his teammates on with his behaviour. He completely lost it there at the end.
Buffon, being the captain and 40 years old, should be trying to calm his players down and reminding them it's not over until the pen goes in and the ref blows the final whistle. Instead of hounding the ref and egging his teammates on with his behaviour. He completely lost it there at the end.
Juve can appeal Buffon's red card based on mistaken identity if they want. It's not a problem. Costa can take Buffon's ban.
When you have 5 Juventus players lynching you, it's hard to be certain whodunnit. The ref didn't lose control, Juventus did.
This.
Much as I dislike Oliver, he did the right thing there. The Juve players went way over the top and Buffon completely lost his cool.
I'm also amazed at the number of people, Buffon included, that want refs to referee 'in the context and sensitivity of the game' and that 'the time and place matters'.
Jesus christ, if that isn't a go ahead for match fixing, I don't know what is. If people want scripted fairytale endings in sport, there is always the WWE.
In the meantime, let's keep all other sports objective and free of bias please.
Jesus christ, if that isn't a go ahead for match fixing, I don't know what is. If people want scripted fairytale endings in sport, there is always the WWE.
In the meantime, let's keep all other sports objective and free of bias please.
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Are we going to analyze the strengths of fouled player every time there is a penalty. Because that is never the case. Many players are built like tanks. That doesn't mean that you dont give penalties until you see someone get two footed in the box or punched hard on the face.
Benatia came in hard enough. It was not like Benatia's hand breezed Vasquez at the back. He put both hands on him. And the followed it with trying to play the ball around Vasquez fouling him again.
Stonewall penalty.
I don't think that it was a penalty because it's not consistent with how referees, Oliver included, judge this type of contact 99.99% of the time. I wouldn't have a problem with the decision, if I didn't know that every corner and free kicks have far bigger contacts and also that the same contact out of the box isn't whistled, just think about the very first tackle on Ronaldo in this game.
Need to get Vince McMahon to run all the football tournaments. We'd get a decent story, twist, and a screw job to add to it. If we are lucky we'd even get all that in one match.
This is an interesting one. The pen is on the softer end, but at the same time there is a blatant push in the back and then kick to the chest. So for me there is no option but to award the penalty.
After this I think some judgement is required. Yes there is the whole respecting the ref campaigns, etc, but it's a penalty on the soft side, particularly from other players perspectives in real time. It's also the last couple of minutes of a quarter final where the team has performed a masterpiece to even get back in it. Add the natural passionate nature if Italians.
Oliver needed to calm it down, speak to his assistant and award yellow cards. A red to one of the greatest goalkeepers in the world, just as a penalty is due is potentially match defining and for that decision to be made I think Buffon needed to be doing more than just being angry and direct. There was no heavy pushing or shoving.
I think Oliver felt under excessive pressure from the team and Buffon did fail to control that, but under the circumstances its understandable even if not excusable.
After this I think some judgement is required. Yes there is the whole respecting the ref campaigns, etc, but it's a penalty on the soft side, particularly from other players perspectives in real time. It's also the last couple of minutes of a quarter final where the team has performed a masterpiece to even get back in it. Add the natural passionate nature if Italians.
Oliver needed to calm it down, speak to his assistant and award yellow cards. A red to one of the greatest goalkeepers in the world, just as a penalty is due is potentially match defining and for that decision to be made I think Buffon needed to be doing more than just being angry and direct. There was no heavy pushing or shoving.
I think Oliver felt under excessive pressure from the team and Buffon did fail to control that, but under the circumstances its understandable even if not excusable.
But that is consistent, surely? Collectively, referees don’t award penalties for contact form corners and free kicks, but typically they’ll award then for pushes and challenges from behind. Whether that is consistent within the rules itself is neither here nor there, players and fans know referees will award a foul when this type of thing happens.
It's a lot greyer than the stonewall or never-a-pen brigades would have you think. Borderline for me for a few reasons:
- The force in the contact has to pass a threshold to justify a foul. Benatia called it a 'little push' which is fair. Naive to do so in full view of the referee, but fairly low level in the grand scheme of contact in the penalty box when you consider the physicality of most 1v1 contact and what you typically see at any set-piece or aerial situation.
- Vazquez stopping dead in the box. Classic tactic to engineer contact or where somebody thinks they have more time than they do, which inevitably ends in a clattering of some sort and isn't necessarily the defender's fault.
- Counter to that is Benatia trying to make up lost ground and not winning the ball as cleanly as he'd have hoped.
They are consistent in their inconsistency, I can give you that but they are clearly in the wrong. Two similar actions need to be judged the same way, their position is irrelevant to the actual foul, it's only irrelevant within the caution system.
But then if they followed the letter of the law it would be a foul anyway, surely?
I'm not talking about the letter of the law, so I don't know and I'm not sure because contacts are allowed in football. If I'm not mistaken what constitutes a foul is at the referees appreciation and that's where there is a problem with consistency again you just have to compare the first challenged on Ronaldo who wasn't deemed to be a foul and the challenge on Vasquez, it's night and day.
It was a soft penalty. I doubt that in the same context he would call that pk against Real Madrid. Its inconsistent with what is considered fault in the Premiere League too, what makes it even more annoying.
Total and utter nonsense.
He looks petrified.
when Hart did it he just walked away
How is that relevant?
We have no idea what he would have done if it had been against Real Madrid because it didn't happen.
What we do know is he got the decision he did have to make right.
Criticising him because he gets the decision wrong in the hypothetical situation in your head is just bizarre.
If Oliver makes the wrong decision in the hypothetical game that is being played in your head then enough is enough.
Replay the game but make sure you tell us how it goes.
Is there one example of this not being a foul elsewhere? I could give you a million examples of lesser challenges being given.
I love how Clattenberg got shit for reffing to a narrative but Michael Oliver is a disgrace for failing to do so.
Stop stating your own opinion as a fact. We obviously don't know it since even on here there's a lot of debate whether it should have been given.
Yeah, you're right there is.
On the one hand you've got people who think it was a penalty.
And on the other hand you've got people who are wrong.
I still don't think there was an actual push, more a placing of hands on the back. Think it's tight either way but in my eyes, soft penalty
Also the RM players look for penalties every time they get near the box and are never booked for it
Also the RM players look for penalties every time they get near the box and are never booked for it
Except for the fact that being right or wrong isn’t as clear cut as you pretend it is, if it was there wouldn’t be 12 hour conversation about it going on. Your opinion, is just that, as is mine.
Refs get respect when they are consistent. Oliver isn’t consistent, and as such he he doesn’t get respect. Refs need to take control of games through communication and personality. Understanding rules and applying them fairly in a highly passionate atmosphere doesn’t allow for black and white handling of the rules. If it did, there would be a player left on any pitch at half time.
The self-entitlement
If you have played at least one minute of football(not counting video games) you know that there are some soft faults that referees will give in the midfield to control the game, but not inside the box to decide a game.
Year after year 99% of these ending games decisions are always in favor of the dominant clubs. Like that pathetic Chelsea x Barcelona.
Always loved peoples ability to completely ignore any point of view other than their own.
I didn't watch the game but looked at the penalty incident now. I have absolutely no bias in this, and I have to say that is very soft. If he went through him, or touched him from the back then its a different matter. But Benatia is allowed to put his leg in front of him there as long as tries for the ball, which he did. He didn't exactly get the ball but he certainly didn't foul the player neither. It is so seldom you see penalties like that given so when something like that happens in the 94 of 93 minutes you have to question the referee's integrity to the game.
As we do exactly that, you will find nothing new here. Clattenburg and Oliver is the same. They do things based on what they belive should happen. That's not the job. The ego can't handle the power its given so its playing around with it, jerking off itself. I don't judge, but they should probably not be referees then
As we do exactly that, you will find nothing new here. Clattenburg and Oliver is the same. They do things based on what they belive should happen. That's not the job. The ego can't handle the power its given so its playing around with it, jerking off itself. I don't judge, but they should probably not be referees then
Giving Buffon a red card, while doing nothing to all the other Juventus players is shockingly bad officiating. It strongly supports that he gave him a red card based on emotional thinking.
Shouldn't he have also given Benatio a second yellow for denying a clear goalscoring chance?
What about the multiple dives Ronaldo did that went unpunished, at least he wouldn't have done his ridiculous shirt off celebration.
Not a good night for Oliver in my opinion.
Shouldn't he have also given Benatio a second yellow for denying a clear goalscoring chance?
What about the multiple dives Ronaldo did that went unpunished, at least he wouldn't have done his ridiculous shirt off celebration.
Not a good night for Oliver in my opinion.
Was a penalty. Dont blame him for sending off Buffon. Understand why Juve were annoyed but they basically all charged at him, screaming at him. Im pretty sure he was pushed as well. Its easy to see why he thinks it was Buffon too.
The problem for the defender is before he tries to hook the ball with his feet, he puts his hands into the strikers back.
A lot of people saying its soft based on slow motion replays too. As soon as that moment happened, it looked a penalty. The only surprise is how long it took Oliver to give it (but im sure he was in communication with his other refs).
The problem for the defender is before he tries to hook the ball with his feet, he puts his hands into the strikers back.
A lot of people saying its soft based on slow motion replays too. As soon as that moment happened, it looked a penalty. The only surprise is how long it took Oliver to give it (but im sure he was in communication with his other refs).
The self-entitlement
I'm joking with you yaspanner, because you called me out for replying to a post that said it was a penalty as well.
Seriously though, I'm yet to see a single coherent reason for why this shouldn't be a penalty actually rooted in the laws of the game. Until someone is able to make an argument which doesn't rely upon some sense that the 'occasion' dictated that Oliver needed to get the decision wrong to get it right or half-remembered, but incorrect 'common sense' cliches that get spouted out by people who don't know the laws of the game then I'll continue to think that most of the ball aching about it not being a penalty comes from an emotional response that the penalty stripped people of a Juventus comeback and CL win which somehow Buffon 'deserved'.
Examples? (Not in a video game or hypothetical, made up scenarios?)
This reads as tin foil hat nonsense, when the standards for pen is a touch on the shoulder then last night is a pen.
Im sorry it hurt your underdog feels but welcome to the real world.
he made the right decision, I really don't know what we are talking about.
Clear Penalty.
Clear Penalty.
So you're saying he should've given half the team red cards after giving Buffon his matching orders... That'll show them how he was super in control of his emotions
There is nothing in the laws of the game that says that it is a penalty and there is nothing that says the opposite. The notion of foul is subjective and during the game the only judge is the referee, so if Oliver thinks that there is enough contact to whistle a foul then it's a foul. The only problem here is that he deemed challenges with far more contact not worthy of a foul, I wouldn't be surprised if he got a bad grade.
Of course it was a penalty. Even the Juve player himself says he gave a push to the back. His wrapped round leg didn't even touch the ball. It was so clear a goal scoring opportunity. Look at it again. If this was United we would be screaming for a penalty.
No one was saving that penalty.. but the point you make is valid.
So you think that the laws of the game give the referee no guidance whatsoever on what may, or may not, be considered a foul?
Alrighty then.
Look at this video and the stills in the comments. If that doesn't reach the basic criteria for a careless challenge then I really don't know what does:
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