Keane was his only mistake as long as youth player recognition is concerned imo. He did well to promote CBJ, Rashford and TFM.
Michael Keane| signed to Everton.
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We must learn the lessons of it and have a proper man who is a link behind the scenes between youth team and First team and knows what we need in the market and what we dont ,Not a Director of football but a man behind the scenes Pheripheral to recruitment strategy. Leaving everything to the manager these days is very tiresome process
It's always the same when United let a youth player go. The media drum up their awesomeness and make it look like we'd forever regret our decision, when in actual fact no one gave two shits about us getting rid of Keane because he wasn't all that.
Nah, he'd been excellent on loan. Was clearly one of our better prospects. Seemed like a no-brainer to keep him a while longer. Which a lot of people said at the time. If only he was left-footed
The comparison to Dele Alli and Micheal Keane should no way be compared. Dele Alli is first off 20 years old and is probably one of the most exciting young talents coming out of Englands grassroots. Micheal Keane who is doing so well and fully deserve an England call up in his own right but Micheal Keane doesnt appear to me as a world class defender, I can no way see Micheal Keane appearing on the World IX ever. He's a good defender and would be a great addition to United squad maybe but its time to stop chasing mediocrity and start adding either REAL potential or are world class defenders.
CBJ's not exactly looking like a future star and he would have played Will Keane ahead of Rashford if he hadn't got a nasty injury in the game before Rashford's debut (which happened because of another injury, to Martial)
There are always some players who are built for the squad role like evans and brown , He is one of them and is better than Jones. We cant have 5 top CB's so He would have been better than jones and playing a squad role. A top Cb can be bought in the market.
No disagreement that he did ok on loan, but you have to admit that when we sold him no one really give a feck? Our fans want the great traditions of club in giving youth a chance to carry on being present, but then spout off line ups with 6 plus new signings we need, making our youth irrelevant. No one has the time or patience anymore to allow a youth player who isn't quite there in terms of experience and is capable of the odd mistake. They all want the now, the next world class player, but then in the same breath grumble when we let a prospect go.Nah, he'd been excellent on loan. Was clearly one of our better prospects. Seemed like a no-brainer to keep him a while longer. Which a lot of people said at the time. If only he was left-footed
Not true for united fans. We are a spoilt bunch from the fergie days we want everything.
There's a balance to be struck tbf. You're dead right about impatience. Just look at the Rashford thread. And there's also a trend for some youth aficionados to big up every academy graduate and throw their toys out of the pram when we got rid of players that go on to have bang average careers. I do remember a lot of the more knowledgeable posters in the reserve/youth forum being taken aback when we let Keane go. He'd done everything that was asked of him and looked like a prospect. It's a crying shame that Van Gaal couldn't see this and/or put Blackett ahead of him because of his mentalist left+right footer CB obsession.
I think it's more of Keane's performance on that pre-season (and the MK Dons match) that ended his United career. LVG was a bit rusty in all of those decisions tbh. Welbeck/Chicharito is an example.
Ideally we would have kept him, but would he have developed here? I think probably not. He could certainly have been playing those games when Blackett or McNair were in the team though.
Well two other mistakes were mentioned in that one post alone.
Probably not indeed. We've been a bit crap at getting kids like him the right sort of PL loan. Apparently he asked that he go to Burnley on loan but the club insisted it was permanent. Which really boggles the mind.
This thread is so full of hindsight.
Keane has reached a level where he's become a solid Premier League defender and probably too good for Burnley but I don't think he's ready to make the jump to any of the top 6 sides yet. I could see him moving to someone like Everton or Leicester if they continue their recent form but he isn't good enough for us.
I'd take him over jones or Smalling at the moment (jones with injuries and Smalling with form)
But I still think Bailly needs someone experienced and world class alongside him
But I still think Bailly needs someone experienced and world class alongside him
Only reason Keane has developed as a player is because he moved away from United. If he was still here, he would have been in and out of the squad (like Fosu-Mensah). At this moment, I would gladly take him back and give him a starting spot. He is a defender with a brain. For the future, I would like Woody to include a buy back option just in case a player becomes good enough to play for United.
Micheal Keane would cost United at around 20m atleast... paying that amount for a squad player is just ridiculous considering at the fact we got some sitting on the bench who were bought more than that. I'm not saying United need to go out and buy the best 5 CBs in the world, all we need is 1 or 2 world class player and then rest will produce in the academy and graduate young potential players who can learn from the best, become squad players themselves and have that hope to be their successors.
At the moment our young united defenders are learning from Jones & Smalling... Not really inspiring pair too learn from is it? That's why Keane couldnt do well at United because he was learning from these two and now he is looking better than he was at United, but he isnt world class and getting him would just add more to our roster of overpaid squad players and neglecting young players like Fosu-Mensah or Tuanzebe who deserve chances when our starters & back ups are either not performing or injured.
Now as I keep saying, Micheal Keane is a good player and I hope he does continue his great form for England's sake, but United need start adding world class players into their roster either potential or marquee players and really start to get back to the top again with solid foundation behind it. United cant keep spending and settling for mediocrity if they want to get back to the top, it has to stop because the bar has sunk low when SAF retired. That bar needs to be raised if United wants to have any chance become the best again and in my opinion getting Keane back is not the way to go about it.
He's a far better player than Jones and Smalling already and has potential to be a top defender. Keane is twice the player Stones ever was for Everton. He is good 1v1, in the air, running with the ball, picking a pass, when the game opens up and when closing up shop. Of course he is good enough to play for us, he is a Mourinho and United type defender all over. The poster below me is right, if he came through Monaco's academy and was called Michaelinho people would be singing a different song.
Can't think of anything worse than a United academy player becoming top class at a Liverpool or Chelsea, Need to go in for him in Summer and offload Paul and Barry Chuckle.
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When people claim that he is not better than Smalling or Jones comparing him to Shawcross it feels like they are judging him on some sort of stereotype.
Would he by more hyped if his last name was Pique or Laporte? If he played for Villarreal or Monaco? If he looked different? I'm sure he would.
My biggest concern would be his pace. Just because I dont know. But that is actually good. Defenders who have to chase attackers are doing something wrong. Furthermore, his coaches claims he is quick.
Would he by more hyped if his last name was Pique or Laporte? If he played for Villarreal or Monaco? If he looked different? I'm sure he would.
My biggest concern would be his pace. Just because I dont know. But that is actually good. Defenders who have to chase attackers are doing something wrong. Furthermore, his coaches claims he is quick.
United could cash in on Michael Keane
Whoever Michael Keane is sold to in the summer United are set to benefit.
United sold Keane in 2015 for just £2m but reports suggest that he could leave for £25m in the summer.
Should that happen United would get a quarter of that, potentially earning them around £6m which means United could receive triple what they sold him for in 2015.
Yes!!! Get in! 6M! fecking awesome! Let's draw up a list of targets to splash this windfall on.
Come on man. Everyone was saying Michael Keane was a potential world beater! They just did it on the inside......
That's why Bailly and him would compliment each other; Keane has height, robust defensive basics and can become one of the best in the league over the next few seasons IMO. Vidic was caught out by pace occasionally, that's why Ferdinand was the perfect foil for him.
Completely agree about natural pace breeding complacency in defenders; some of the best defenders in the history of the game have been moderately paced, and therefore, by necessity, developed that key reading of the game in youth football. Uber-athletic kids never have too because they can race and muscle their way out of positional errors in the youth ranks; at the top level though, players are either equally quick or 5 yards ahead intellectually, and therefore they get found out. See Micah Richards/Mangala-types, and there's even evidence of this in Bailly's game.
How many 'world class' players did United buy under Ferguson? He harvested the best players from other clubs within the league and took them to the next level; in that sense, Keane fits the bill. So did Kante......
Post-Fergie, United have signed a raft of 'world class' players, and fallen into relative mediocrity. It's simply not the way to rebuild the empire.
Assuming we don't have a buy-back clause then?
They're just academy coaches. First team is another matter. Not all academy coaches would turn out great at first team level, let alone top level. They may be right but at the same time can be wrong. Who knows?! I will trust Mourinho on this though since he's in charge & should have idea of what he needs for his team.
I think you have hit the nail on the head here.
2 words Warren Joyce. Where is he now? Your right its a big step up from youth to first team for players and managers.
Its also a different era to Fergie as well. All the teams are rich now and dont neccessarily have to sell to survive. There are also another 5 teams that are attractive to players from the 'smaller' teams as well in the premier, rather than the 1-2 in the Fergie era. We easily won the most trophies in the premier era prior to 2010, then since then the money has been a big leveller.
He always looked a good defender at United. When he and Wootton were given a run in the league cup under Fergie, he looked very promising and by far the best of the two. He looked good defensively in his opportunities under LVG too but being good defensively was a minor thing for a defender under LVG. Being good on the ball or left footed was far more important.
Saying that, he is not worth spending big money on to bring back. The club needs to aim higher than that now. The first choice defenders are all quite young so an experienced defender is a higher priority and someone like Tuanzebe should be earmarked as a longer term option.
It's a shame he didn't stay at United for another few years in the reserves before he got his move away. Ireland could have convinced him he was too shit to play for England!
What we need to do is to release kids on loan relatively quickly. Once they made their bones elsewhere then we decide if we sign them up or let them go. Meanwhile squad players are shifted off quickly especially if they are injury prone. Having a high staff turnover is healthy as it keeps players on their toes
Agree. But most importantly, we need the stability of having the right manager, right first team. We don't have DoF so with if we keep turning over managers then there would be huge chance we sell the "useful" players for one system just to get "wrong" players for another one.
Yet Burnley have a host of world class central defenders he has learned from?
Indeed. The "learning" thing is really overstated. Jones and Smalling (and Evans when he was here) had the benefit of learning from Vidic and Ferdinand, amongst other great United defenders, yet that hardly shone through.
Vidic and Ferdinand ultimately had an awful impact on the development of Jones and Smalling, as their presence meant they never got key exposure to actually playing centreback in their early twenties because the former two were kept beyond their their sell-by. Rio and Vida themselves spent their early years playing and learning the position elsewhere, something Keane has evidently benefitted from.
Had Phil and Mike been signed then left at Blackburn and Fulham for a couple of seasons they'd be a lot more accomplished at this point.
If that was true, then it justifies exactly why when some are attainable to United, like Keane clearly is given his attachment to the club, they should be taken. Dele Alli was there for the taking when MK Dons smashed United out of the league cup in 2014....
You're simply regurgitating Mourinho's nonsense excuses for his pending failure here; modern moronic United opted to spend £90m on Pogba rather than £30m on Kante this summer. The reality is United only want to sign 'names' these days to market to fanboys.
Chelsea and then City were clearly outspending United from 2003 onwards; Chelsea signed Bridge, Ashley and Joe Cole, Scott Parker, SWP, Sturridge, Duff, Anelka and Cahill from within the league during the Fergie era, most of whom would have interested SAF. Arsenal actually beat United to the signings of Ramsey, Oxlaide-Chamberlain, while again City signed Barry, Lescott, Milner, Nasri, Clichy, Given, Tevez and Rodwell (who in a pro-Anglo environment like United or modern-day Spurs could have become a top player) he even kidnapped Berbatov when City actually had a bid accepted by City in 2008. Liverpool and Leeds also spent a lot of money in the Premier League era and could dethrone Sir Alex.
Youre telling me that United can attract Pogba, Di Maria, Bastian, Ibrahimovic, Mkhitaryan and soon Griezmann from some of the best clubs in the world, yet can't usurp other Premier League teams for the best internal talent? Get a grip.
The competition was always there, even going back to Blackburn and Newcastle; Ferguson always found a way to win. Interesting that the club that was allegedly winning easy in the era you specified reached three of four Champions League finals in 2008-11. Don't let insecure Jose do it down and brainwash the masses ahead of his mediocre tenure.
Fairly sure he wasn't eligible to switch back. My dream of somehow get Nathan Redmond to switch had died though.
It's an odd rule that makes it harder for someone with dual nationality who played for both countries at underage level to switch than it is for someone who only played for one. Keane probably wouldn't get in the team ahead of Duffy and Clark anyway!
England's lack of depth makes getting these guys to declare is much more difficult now. Jack Grealish can't get in the Villa team and still thinks he will play for England eventually and he probably will.
Our defensive situation has been mismanaged for years, we should never have signed both Jones and Smalling. We needed to sign at least one solid CB at that time to cope with the retirement of Rio and Vidic.
Keane suffered from this really, Jones and Smalling weren't and still aren't considered solid so you have the situation where they've perpetually occupied the prospect slot and also the seniors slot.
Especially now, we need a solid spine before we can really introduce youth and expect them to flourish.
Keane suffered from this really, Jones and Smalling weren't and still aren't considered solid so you have the situation where they've perpetually occupied the prospect slot and also the seniors slot.
Especially now, we need a solid spine before we can really introduce youth and expect them to flourish.
Yea we don't need him when we can just play O'Shea forever.
I guess it's to stop players from switching back and forth, basically playing for both nations. We can still get Will Keane.
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