Yeah, fair point. Experience probably wasn't the correct word but I don't think Keane improves us in either respect.
Michael Keane| signed to Everton.
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I definitely agree with that.
It's done, mate. We just signed the best centreback in the league.
For the people saying he's expensive, what would a reasonable price be? I guess 15M? - If you factor in we are competing with Liverpool, Everton and possibly Spurs and Chelsea, I don't think an extra 4M is too much.
Whether you think he isn't good enough is another matter, but I don't think the inflated price is an issue, when its likely just a 5M difference from what would make most people feel more comfortable.
If we're signing him, pay the extra 4-5M and get it done early and save the negotiations for bigger targets.
This, I feel, is really important. Mourinho said earlier in the season that he didn't care about ball-playing centrebacks. He doesn't want one stylistic player and one stopper. So what does he want? I think it's someone who is pacey and can deal with quick, tricky CFs like Aguero and someone who is aerially good and can deal with the targetmen like Carroll. We have Bailly, who is our quickest CB, so that means we should sign..?
That defensive record has been earned by large by Bailly and Rojo. The loss of Rojo and uncertainty about his form on return necessitate that we sign at least one new CB to fill the gap.
It would be ideal if we could bring in a world class CB, but there are very few in the market and the demand is very high, with most of the big clubs in the market for reinforcements. Any world class Cb that hits the market will likely be highly over priced. We have bigger needs in other areas, and can afford to make do with a cheap decent CB, that can add to our rotation depth and possibly become a starter. Keane fits that bill. Excluding Rojo and Bailly, Keane is better than all the other 3 CB option
Jones, due to injury, in the past 4 seasons has missed 7 months, 3 months, 5 months and 3 months. That is as good as not having the player for at least half of the season. Even if he was the best CB in the world, he is worth a dime cos he is more likely to be unavaialble when needed, like earlier this season after Rojo got injured. There is no point in debating the ability of a defender who cannot stay on the field.
Smalling has been a bit better in the injury department and before this season, in which he has been out for 3 months, is only long term absence was in 2012/13. The problem with him is his slow reaction, slow acceleration, bad on the ball and penchant for blunders. He is currently the worst ranked CB (stats wise) on our team. For comparison, Bailly is one of the best in the league while Keane has similar numbers to Rojo.
Blind, as much as he tries, is not a CB. He does not have the physique, positioning, or aerial ability needed to be the starting CB at a title contender. He is fine as a last option backup, but in no way should he be part of the core rotation.
The system can make a defender look better than he actually is. Mourinho is one of the best defensive coaches in the world, and is definitely better than Dyche. If Keane looks as good as he does under Dyche, he can only be better under Mourinho. Keane has all the physical attributes and his style of play will complement Bailly well.
How many genuine world class centre backs are there really out there ? I'd say Bonucci, Ramos, Pique, Godin, Thiago Silva and Hummels but that's it and we're not signing any of those as they're the first choice of probably the best six clubs in Europe.
We seem to hugely overrate or hugely underrate players on here with very few in the middle, I think some people also forget about the home grown rule. Look at England's centre back options and tell me how many are genuinely better than Smalling, Jones or Keane ? Cahill would probably be considered so but after that Stones is pure potential and even that is vastly overrated.
Would I like Varane ? Definitely but isn't he always injured, would I like Gimenez ? Definitely but he is currently third choice at Atletico now and again whilst looking great so far is pure potential and unproven in our league. Jose clearly sees something in Keane that he likes which is probably him being a very good defender, rarely loses in the air and is never injured.
I still think Jose wants a Bailly/Smalling partnership with Keane/Rojo as back up then Tuanzebe being brought through slowly and Tuanzebe so far has looked a beast, I expect Jones to be sold. I personally think Jones when fit and on best form is (scary to say this) the best centre back England have but him being fit and on best form is so rare that Jose doesn't trust him or that his body won't break down and Jose demands playing through pain.
We seem to hugely overrate or hugely underrate players on here with very few in the middle, I think some people also forget about the home grown rule. Look at England's centre back options and tell me how many are genuinely better than Smalling, Jones or Keane ? Cahill would probably be considered so but after that Stones is pure potential and even that is vastly overrated.
Would I like Varane ? Definitely but isn't he always injured, would I like Gimenez ? Definitely but he is currently third choice at Atletico now and again whilst looking great so far is pure potential and unproven in our league. Jose clearly sees something in Keane that he likes which is probably him being a very good defender, rarely loses in the air and is never injured.
I still think Jose wants a Bailly/Smalling partnership with Keane/Rojo as back up then Tuanzebe being brought through slowly and Tuanzebe so far has looked a beast, I expect Jones to be sold. I personally think Jones when fit and on best form is (scary to say this) the best centre back England have but him being fit and on best form is so rare that Jose doesn't trust him or that his body won't break down and Jose demands playing through pain.
What about Laporte? How's he been this season? Wasn't he meant to be one of the next great CB's? His style seems like it would contrast Bailly's well.
Seems to be enjoying life in bilbao. Signed an extension last summer
Jose's record with signing defenders in incredible.
Fully trust him, and this is a great price.
Fully trust him, and this is a great price.
Bailly and Rojo have been the standouts for sure this season but they didn't actually start as a pair until the beginning of April. Ignoring the other players' contribution is doing them a disservice.
I don't share your views on Keane - I think his impact has been pretty massively overstated this season while the gulf in quality between Burnley and United is possibly being understated here. Not only is the expectation and scrutiny magnified tenfold at United but Burnley have also played about 20 games fewer than us over the course of the season. It all adds up.
Are all the clubs rumored to be interested in him also over estimating his abilities? I dont think Keane is anything but a good CB, but he is better than Blind and Smalling. Jones is out injured too often to be of any use.
He has all the innate tools required. He has enough pace (to keep up with Martial), is very good in the air (an area we are currently very weak in) and is a decent man marker. I cant see any reason why smalling would be ahead of him.
Of course, if there are better alternatives available at reasonable prices, then yes, but I just dont think there will be such this summer. We definitely need to sign at least one new CB, preferably two, as we need a cover for Rojo and a replacement for Jones.
I like him a lot, he was always good for our u21. It still blows my mind that LVG decided to use the likes of McNair and Blackett instead of him...
I don't know which other clubs are supposed to be interested in him but my position would be that he's not good enough to start for any of the top 6 sides.
Fair enough mate, I like my CB's to have some either atheltic or technical stand out quality and he just always looks very average at every aspect, but if he is only the secondary CB signing maybe Jose can turn him into something more.
Liverpool are rumored to be highly interested, while everton and Chelsea have also been linked.
Another young defender I like is Daniele Rugani, but doubt he would ever leave Juve
Rio was very highly rated when we signed him. We spent an enormous amount as well.
Vidic was also very highly rated if I'm not mistaken. I didn't see him beforehand but despite his shaky start he looked like an extremely gifted defender to me, so the talent looked obvious.
The same should apply to Keane. Has to got the skillet to be a top top defender? That's what we should look at.
Spot on. Keane taking either of their places can only be good.
Its a valid point in so far as arguing against transfer gossip being real or not, but if we do sign him then it is based on Mourinho's and our own scouting departments assessment - both of which have a decent track record in this area (we declined both Mangala and Otamendi).
For those Burnley watchers, is he better than Jonny Evans in terms of defending?
We've had one of the best defences in the league this season. Bailly and Rojo in particular are more than good enough as a first choice pairing for another season. Signing Keane as cover due to our injury crisis is a cheap and good enough option that leaves money for the attack and midfield which is the priority.
Wouldn't be the worst thing to happen if we can replace Jones who can barely play a dozen games a season with this guy.
On his last year, plus we have 20% sell on clause. 15 mil or round about should do it as I can't see a bidding war happening.
Hopefully we get a similar sum for Jones from Stoke or West Brom too.
On his last year, plus we have 20% sell on clause. 15 mil or round about should do it as I can't see a bidding war happening.
Hopefully we get a similar sum for Jones from Stoke or West Brom too.
It's a completely different situation to Fabregas and Pique. They were picked off by big clubs exploiting European labour laws. They were both big prospects at Barcelona.
Keane was sold because he wasn't deemed good enough. Then a couple of years later he's worth £25m. It's either a short sighted and flawed transfer strategy or a terribly expensive alternative to a long term loan.
Then like Alba and Aleix Vidal then
Mourinho knows his defenders, if he wants him i've not got a problem with it. Fecking Van Gaal binned him probably because he couldnt pass it with his left foot as well as Blacket and Mcnair. Comedy gold.
If Im not mistaken he was sold because he wanted to play and we could not guarantee him minutes. Could be confusing him with someone else though.
I think he will be a solid and reliable signing. He won't be as injured as Jones and knowing what BPL clubs are like I could well see a club like Palace or WBA buying Jones for £12 to 15m.
If Mourinho can turn Rojo into a rock, I'm pretty sure he will make Keane better also. Mourinho rarely makes mistakes with regards to defenders.
If Mourinho can turn Rojo into a rock, I'm pretty sure he will make Keane better also. Mourinho rarely makes mistakes with regards to defenders.
Giggs explained why he left on national Tv. Had nothing to do with being not good enough.
AC Milan also let Patrick Vieira go, completely not the same in quality but it happens.
I don't think so.
Evans put a great performance against us at Old Trafford as well. He's the better organizer at the back, more experienced and superior in positioning. In the last two seasons Evans has impressed me more than Keane at this point personally.
He's also a better fit with Bailly and more of a commanding CB.
Personally I'd be thinking Roy Keane was a British transfer record at the time of signing, and Pallister a second highest, and highest for a defender. The Ince and Bruce fees weren't records of course, but still substantial for the 80s.
Not surprised when you consider Evans is about 28/29. Keane is a young lad with a lot of learning to do. Evans regardless of what level he is currently at is a top 6 club quality defender.
Indeed, but if I have to choose I'd take Evans now, his injury record at WBA is also pretty good and is the better defender overall at the moment. Would probably come cheaper as well being 28/29. He doesn't rely on pace(same as Keane) so he could sustain his current level for at least 3-4 years more.
Evans would be a great signing, one of the classiest centre backs in the league and has all the qualities to balance out Bailly. He deserves a move to a top 6 team this summer.
It depends on Keane's injury record really.
The annual defence injury crisis has to come to an end.
The annual defence injury crisis has to come to an end.
Wont mind seeing him back. Should have never been sold in the first place but whatever.
Why was that then? Why did the club let him go if they thought he was good enough?
IIRC, Keane said the club wanted him to go on loan but he pushed for a permanent transfer. EDIT: Sounds like the inverse.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...burnley-manchester-united-fa-cup-lincoln-city
I'd love him back, especially if he's not too dear.
He'd slot right in, knows the league and obviously has talent. I was surprised watching him how comfortable he seems on the ball as well.
He'd slot right in, knows the league and obviously has talent. I was surprised watching him how comfortable he seems on the ball as well.
Of course it was. Van Gaal rated McNair and Blackett ahead of him. That's why he left.
The issue for me is that the club had nobody to say to LVG "while the characteristics you may want in a centre back are being good on the ball and left footed, you're here for 3 years maximum and there is a reasonable chance that the next manager might want defenders who are good at defending. Let's send him on loan for now".
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